[DeTomaso] Radiator + heater core

audionut at hushmail.com audionut at hushmail.com
Tue Jun 30 14:19:24 EDT 2015


This may be obvious and therefore dumb (feel free to slap me), but
haven't we all noticed how turning the car's heater on full blast when
an engine is getting hot will cool it almost immediately? I haven't
had the need to do this (thank God) in my Pantera (w/trouble-free
Fluidyne/suckers) but, with my '60 Cadillac Hearse and '65 Buick
Riviera turning the heater on cools the motor well enough to get me
over the mountain pass, through stop n go traffic, what have you.  I
sweat my ass off for a bit but it works every time.   Instead of all
this "how do we design the perfect radiator" stuff that may or may not
work, why not just install a second little radiator/heater core with a
fan that blows like a heater does?  Just vent it outside the car
instead.  One might even install a valve so that you could run it only
as needed during hot weather.
 Sent using Hushmail
On June 29, 2015 at 8:32 PM, "Stephen"  wrote:Kelly - great
discussion!  Will take it as exceptional guidance.  You are right -
most forced-draft industrial fin-fans have a significant transition
zone between the fan and the tubes.

Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
coffield at mchsi.com
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 6:54 PM
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators

Interesting discussion on the coolant side. On the air side, in my
experience, for axial flow fans, I would give slight advantage to
pusher vs puller/sucker fans but only when you have ducts that
smoothly transition the circular fan to the heat exchanger core
opening and do so in transition lengths of ~ diameter of the fan or
more. The flow from an “axial flow fan” isn’t completely axial
and a portion is dispersed radially which causes further head loss
when it must turn to go through the fins. Although the fan air speed
is higher, the flow is concentrated in the portion of the core most
exposed to the circular fans.

When fans are placed in close proximity (    FWIW, I just got thru
 with a leaky radiator project on another
    >    (extensively modified)
 make vehicle, which came with a Ron Davis
    (RD)
    >    radiator.A  That RD
 unit developed some serious leaks along the
    top &
    >    bottom ends where the
 side tanks meet the supporting rails; and I
    >    thought I'd share this
 learning experience with the group.
    >    After calling RD's
 Customer Support seeking repairs, I found that:
    >    1) they can't repair an
 aluminum radiator once it's come in
    contact
    >    with radiator coolant.
 They claim it contaminates the metal,
    making it
    >    impossible to TIG weld
 successfully.
    >    2) they will be happy to
 sell me a new unit .....A  about $1000,
    >    delivered.A  But,
 with only their standard 90 day limited
    warranty.
    >    Kinda' chintzy policy
 for such an expensive part, when the GM
    >    replacement version is
 only $150. Are these things considered a
    >    consumable, like brake
 pads?
    >    3) On a recommendation
 from a trusted source, I picked up a
    Mishimoto
    >    radiator for about 40%
 the cost of a new RD, and it has a Lifetime
    >    warranty. Everyone who
 has seen the new part claims that the
    >    workmanship is superior
 to the RD.A
    >    4) But, I checked the
 [1]mishimoto.com website, they don't offer
    one
    >    for the Pantera
 (yet).A  But, I did leave an email suggesting that
    they
    >    market one.
    >    Here's the pitch: Maybe
 if a few other list members would contact
    them
    >    expressing a desire to
 buy their Pantera version, they might be
    >    motivated to start
 producing them. They make radiators for cars
    which
    >    are much lower volume
 than the Pantera.
    >    Bonus: Mishimoto is a
 huge company, and their customer service is
    >    outstanding. The
 Lifetime warranty sold me.
    >    Final thought:
    >    The OEM Pantera radiator
 is a very good part; but, some of these
    were
    >    not built correctly.
 Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) #8, article
    61
    >    describes a correcting
 modification which can be done by a
    competent
    >    radiator shop.
    >    FWIW,
    >    Al (3915)
    >
 ==================================================================
    >    On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at
 1:26 AM, michael barnes
    >    
 wrote:
    >
    >      I bought a
 Superior radiator,it was made upside down so
    obviously
    >      wouldn't fit
 .After sales was shocking , three months and no
    >      replacement d-!
    >      Sent by Michael
 Barnes
    >      > On 29 Jun
 2015, at 07:05, Ed Mendez 
    wrote:
    >      >
    >      > I have a
 stock radiator for sale if anyone interested. It has
    a
    >      radiator cap on
 it which weird but I suppose you can weld that
    off?
    >      >
    >      > Ed
    >      >
    >      >
    >      >> On Jun
 28, 2015, at 21:10, marshallgsmith
    >      
 wrote:
    >      >>
    >      >>A
 Don't discount the original radiator. It is very good and
    has
    >      cooled my
    >      >>A
 car for many years.All that is needed is modern day high
    volume
    >      fans.
    >      >>
    >      >>A
 Marshall
    >      >>
    >      >>A
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
    >      >>
    >      >>A
 -------- Original message --------
    >      >>A
 From: Julian Kift 
    >      >>A
 Date: 06/28/2015 8:52 PM (GMT-08:00)
    >      >>A
 To: [6]mikeldrew at aol.com,
 [7]steve at snclocks.com,
    >      [8]detomaso at poca.com
    >      >>A
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
    >      >>A
 For other options in aluminum Ron Davies makes a nice
    radiator
    >      for the
    >      >>A
 Pantera by all accounts and Superior Radiator sells their
    >      version on
    >      >>A
 eBay with some happy customers.
    >      >>A
 Julian
    >      >>A
 Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:10:23 -0400
    >      >>A
 To: [9]steve at snclocks.com;
 [10]detomaso at poca.com
    >      >>A
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
    >      >>A
 From: [11]detomaso at poca.com
    >      >>A
 In a message dated 6/28/15 15 34 37, [12]steve at snclocks.com
    >      writes:
    >      >>>
 Whilst I am enjoying driving 5332, I noticed that I have a
    seep
    >      from
    >      >>>
 where one of the radiator tubes enters the header tank.A
    Looks
    >      like
    >      >>A
 it has been
    >      >>>
 there a while, small seep, but left a puddle when I ran the
    >      engine at
    >      >>A
 1500
    >      >>> rpm
 for 10 minutes to charge the a/c.A  It's a Fluidyne
    >      radiator,
    >      >>A
 bought
    >      >>> and
 installed in 2011, with perhaps 4,000 miles on it.
    >      >>>
    >
 >>>>> Bummer.A  A Many have discovered
 to their sadness that
    >      Fluidyne
    >      >>A
 radiators
    >      >>A
 (at least the first-generation models for the Pantera)
    cooled
    >      very well
    >      >
    >
 _______________________________________________
    >      Detomaso Forum
 Managed by POCA
    >      Posted emails
 must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
    >      DeTomaso mailing
 list
    >      [13]DeTomaso at poca.com
    >      [14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
    >      To manage your
 subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
    >      etc.) use the
 links above.
    >
    >    On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at
 1:26 AM, michael barnes
    >    
 wrote:
    >
    >      I bought a
 Superior radiator,it was made upside down so
    obviously
    >      wouldn't fit
 .After sales was shocking , three months and no
    >      replacement d-!
    >      Sent by Michael
 Barnes
    >      > On 29 Jun
 2015, at 07:05, Ed Mendez 
    wrote:
    >      >
    >      > I have a
 stock radiator for sale if anyone interested. It has
    a
    >      radiator cap on
 it which weird but I suppose you can weld that
    off?
    >      >
    >      > Ed
    >      >
    >      >
    >      >> On Jun
 28, 2015, at 21:10, marshallgsmith
    >      
 wrote:
    >      >>
    >      >>A
 Don't discount the original radiator. It is very good and
    has
    >      cooled my
    >      >>A
 car for many years.All that is needed is modern day high
    volume
    >      fans.
    >      >>
    >      >>A
 Marshall
    >      >>
    >      >>A
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
    >      >>
    >      >>A
 -------- Original message --------
    >      >>A
 From: Julian Kift 
    >      >>A
 Date: 06/28/2015 8:52 PM (GMT-08:00)
    >      >>A
 To: [19]mikeldrew at aol.com,
 [20]steve at snclocks.com,
    >      [21]detomaso at poca.com
    >      >>A
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
    >      >>A
 For other options in aluminum Ron Davies makes a nice
    radiator
    >      for the
    >      >>A
 Pantera by all accounts and Superior Radiator sells their
    >      version on
    >      >>A
 eBay with some happy customers.
    >      >>A
 Julian
    >      >>A
 Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:10:23 -0400
    >      >>A
 To: [22]steve at snclocks.com;
 [23]detomaso at poca.com
    >      >>A
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
    >      >>A
 From: [24]detomaso at poca.com
    >      >>A
 In a message dated 6/28/15 15 34 37, [25]steve at snclocks.com
    >      writes:
    >      >>>
 Whilst I am enjoying driving 5332, I noticed that I have a
    seep
    >      from
    >      >>>
 where one of the radiator tubes enters the header tank.A
    Looks
    >      like
    >      >>A
 it has been
    >      >>>
 there a while, small seep, but left a puddle when I ran the
    >      engine at
    >      >>A
 1500
    >      >>> rpm
 for 10 minutes to charge the a/c.A  It's a Fluidyne
    >      radiator,
    >      >>A
 bought
    >      >>> and
 installed in 2011, with perhaps 4,000 miles on it.
    >      >>>
    >
 >>>>> Bummer.A  A Many have discovered
 to their sadness that
    >      Fluidyne
    >      >>A
 radiators
    >      >>A
 (at least the first-generation models for the Pantera)
    cooled
    >      very well
    >      >
    >
 _______________________________________________
    >      Detomaso Forum
 Managed by POCA
    >      Posted emails
 must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
    >      DeTomaso mailing
 list
    >      [26]DeTomaso at poca.com
    >      [27]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
    >      To manage your
 subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
    >      etc.) use the
 links above.
    >
    > References
    >
    >    1. http://mishimoto.com/
    >    2. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
    >    3. mailto:edducati at mac.com
    >    4. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
    >    5. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
    >    6. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
    >    7. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
    >    8. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
    >    9. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
    >   10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
    >   11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
    >   12. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
    >   13. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
    >   14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
    >   15. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
    >   16. mailto:edducati at mac.com
    >   17. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
    >   18. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
    >   19. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
    >   20. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
    >   21. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
    >   22. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
    >   23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
    >   24. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
    >   25. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
    >   26. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
    >   27. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
    >
    >
 _______________________________________________
    >
    > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
    > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
 Megabytes
    > DeTomaso mailing list
    > DeTomaso at poca.com
    > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
    >
    > To manage your subscription (change  email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
    use
    > the links above.
    >
    >
    _______________________________________________
    Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
    Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
 Megabytes
    DeTomaso mailing list
    DeTomaso at poca.com
    http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
    To manage your subscription (change email  address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
    use the links above.
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 _______________________________________________
 Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
 Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  DeTomaso mailing list 
DeTomaso at poca.com  http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 To manage your subscription (change email address,  unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
-------------- next part --------------
   This may be obvious and therefore dumb (feel free to slap me), but
   haven't we all noticed how turning the car's heater on full blast when
   an engine is getting hot will cool it almost immediately?



   I haven't had the need to do this (thank God) in my Pantera
   (w/trouble-free Fluidyne/suckers) but, with my '60 Cadillac Hearse and
   '65 Buick Riviera turning the heater on cools the motor well enough to
   get me over the mountain pass, through stop n go traffic, what have
   you.  I sweat my ass off for a bit but it works every time.



   Instead of all this "how do we design the perfect radiator" stuff that
   may or may not work, why not just install a second little
   radiator/heater core with a fan that blows like a heater does?  Just
   vent it outside the car instead.  One might even install a valve so
   that you could run it only as needed during hot weather.
   Sent using Hushmail
   On June 29, 2015 at 8:32 PM, "Stephen" <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:

     Kelly - great discussion! Will take it as exceptional guidance. You
     are right - most forced-draft industrial fin-fans have a significant
     transition zone between the fan and the tubes.
     Stephen Nelson
     -----Original Message-----
     From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
     coffield at mchsi.com
     Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 6:54 PM
     To: detomaso at poca.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
     Interesting discussion on the coolant side. On the air side, in my
     experience, for axial flow fans, I would give slight advantage to
     pusher vs puller/sucker fans but only when you have ducts that
     smoothly transition the circular fan to the heat exchanger core
     opening and do so in transition lengths of ~ diameter of the fan or
     more. The flow from an aaxial flow fana isnat completely axial and a
     portion is dispersed radially which causes further head loss when it
     must turn to go through the fins. Although the fan air speed is
     higher, the flow is concentrated in the portion of the core most
     exposed to the circular fans.
     When fans are placed in close proximity (<<1 diameter) to the heat
     exchanger core/fins as in cars, a plenum with sucker fans seems to
     work much better at low speeds and more effectively motivating flow
     across the entire core which has less pressure drop than just the
     fan diameter portion of the core, but can give up some cooling
     capacity at high forward speeds compared to a non shrouded radiator
     because the plenum now limits the opening behind the radiator. Some
     folks install flapper doors on the plenum in an attempt to get the
     best of both worlds, but if a pair of fans touch the extreme
     dimensions of the core thereas not much to be gained.
     Even though you have a lot more heat to dissipate at forward high
     speed because your engine is working hard, this rarely is where a
     street car is challenged. Itas almost always with no forward speed,
     where you are completely dependent on the fans for airflow and high
     speed excursions under full power are limited. Short circuiting of
     cooling air and pavement temperatures are a further aggravation. In
     race cars air flow must be sufficient to dissipate max power
     continuously without soak, but even so, typically suffer without
     (high) forward speed.
     As with most things, the coolant circuit, flow, air circuit and flow
     al work in unison. There are trades in either area that to a degree
     can compensate for deficiencies in others.
     Best,
     Kelly
     ----- Original Message -----
     From: "Stephen" <steve at snclocks.com>
     To: detomaso at poca.com
     Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 7:34:46 PM
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
     Being an engineer who has designed air-cooled heat exchangers I get
     a chuckle out of the logic some of the vendors use. I can easily
     understand why Marshall would believe multiple passes would be
     better - but there are so many other issues - turbulence being a
     biggie, and the reality that the limiting heat transfer coefficient
     is on the air side, making things like the heat transfer coefficient
     of the metals involved a lot less important.
     As the folks at FlowKooler commented when I was talking to them
     about a radiator - it all comes down to cfm of air... Well, perhaps
     not all, but it matters a lot.
     Which makes the system offered by Pantera Performance (two 13-inch
     sucker fans) and Hall (two 12 inch pusher fans) both odds-on
     favorites. Whilst I am not about to try to run the calcs, I suspect
     that the 12 inch pushers will beat the 13 inch suckers, especially
     when moving down the road at low speeds.
     Still scratching my head on what to replace the Fluidyne with.
     Stephen Nelson
     -----Original Message-----
     From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Ken
     Green via DeTomaso
     Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 2:27 PM
     To: marshall smith; GR2835 at comcast.net; detomaso at poca.com; Charles
     McCall
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
     It seems like experience and opinions on radiator are all over the
     place. The Stewart web site
     ([1]http://stewartcomponents.com/index.php?route=information/informa
     tion&information_id=13) has a technical article that says benefits
     from a modern multi pass radiator are a myth:
     Tech Tip #5 - Radiators & External Plumbing Radiators Thicker
     radiators do have slightly more airflow resistance than thinner
     radiators but the difference is minimal. A 4" radiator has only
     approximately 10% more airflow resistance than a 2" radiator.
     In past years, hot rodders and racers would sometimes install a
     thicker radiator and actually notice decreased cooling. They
     erroneously came to the conclusion that the air could not flow
     adequately through the thick radiator, and therefore became fully
     heat-saturated before exiting the rear of the radiator core. The
     actual explanation for the decreased cooling was not the air flow,
     but the coolant flow. The older radiators used the narrow tube
     design with larger cross section. Coolant must flow through a
     radiator tube at a velocity adequate to create turbulence.
     The turbulence allows the water in the center of the tube to be
     forced against the outside of the tube, which allows for better
     thermal transfer between the coolant and the tube surface. The
     coolant velocity actually decreases, and subsequently its ability to
     create the required turbulence, in direct relation to the increase
     in thickness. If the thickness of the core is doubled, the coolant
     velocity is halved. Modern radiators, using wide tubes and less
     cross section area, require less velocity to achieve optimum thermal
     transfer. The older radiators benefited from baffling inside the
     tanks and forcing the coolant through a serpentine configuration.
     This increased velocity and thus the required turbulence was
     restored.
     Radiators with a higher number of fins will cool better than a
     comparable radiator with less fins, assuming it is clean. However, a
     higher fin count is very difficult to keep clean. Determining the
     best compromise depends on the actual conditions of operation.
     Double pass radiators require 16x more pressure to flow the same
     volume of coolant through them, as compared to a single pass
     radiator. Triple pass radiators require 64x more pressure to
     maintain the same volume. Automotive water pumps are a centrifugal
     design, not positive displacement, so with a double pass radiator,
     the pressure is doubled and flow is reduced by approximately 33%.
     Modern radiator designs, using wide/thin cross sections tubes,
     seldom benefit from multiple pass configurations. The decrease in
     flow caused by multiple passes offsets any benefits of a high-flow
     water pump.
     Gross flow radiators are superior to upright radiators because the
     radiator cap is positioned on the low pressure (suction) side of the
     system. This prevents the pressure created by a high-flow water pump
     from forcing coolant past the radiator cap at high RPM. As mentioned
     in the radiator cap section, an upright radiator should be equipped
     with radiator cap with the highest pressure rating recommended by
     the manufacturer. The system will still force coolant past the cap
     at sustained high RPM.
     Kinda hard to know what the current truth is? Maybe 30 years ago a
     multi-pass was better but not with a modern radiator?
     Ken
     From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
     To: GR2835 at comcast.net; detomaso at poca.com; Charles McCall
     <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
     Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 1:43 PM
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
     In reference to the Independent Antique Radiator described below, I
     would be a little skeptical about having only 3 rows and more
     concerned about coolant making only one pass through the unit. I
     believe the coolant should make two passes through the radiator to
     properly cool the liquid.
     JMHO....
     M
     --------------------------------------------
     On Mon, 6/29/15, Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com> wrote:
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
     To: GR2835 at comcast.net, detomaso at poca.com
     Date: Monday, June 29, 2015, 11:27 AM
     Quick reply from
     Mishimoto:
     Charles,
     Thanks for the E-mail!
     Unfortunately, at this time we do not offer an aluminum radiator for
     the DeTomaso Pantera. I am sorry for any inconvenience. However, I
     will
     be happy to add your information to our product suggestion list! If
     we
     do decide to come out with a product that matches your description,
     we
     will be sure to contact you!
     Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with!
     Mishimoto strives for the best Customer Service. Have I fully
     resolved
     any questions or concerns you were
     contacting us about today?
     Thanks,
     Gerry - thanks for the info... Quite interested, although a little
     turned off by the fact that I would need new tubes under the
     chassis. A
     few years ago I bought all new SS tubing (so that it would never
     wear
     out!!) Let us know how you like it - I'm thinking that Santa would
     be a
     perfect guy to guy shopping for me, so I'm not in a hurry but am
     keeping my eyes open for the best
     solution
     From: GR2835 at comcast.net
     [mailto:GR2835 at comcast.net]
     Sent: lunes, 29 de junio de 2015 17:54
     To: Charles McCall
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
     Charles,
     You wanted
     lifetime.........warranty
     Independent Antique Radiator in
     Algonquin, Illinois , will be
     selling an all brass, 3 core, extruded tube (no seams), single pass
     radiator that is a direct replacement for a Pantera radiator. It
     even
     has the new dimpled fins for more heat dissapation........designed
     for
     the air conditioning condenser to be mounted in front and sucker
     fans
     recommended by Jon Haas to be mounted behind.
     This radiator has the heat sensor screw in mounted on the drivers
     side as recommended by John Haas and included in his radiator fan
     controller kit.
     This radiator requires new
     tubes to be made from the under chassis
     tubes.....Inlet on the passenger side and outlet on the drivers
     side.
     Current prototype is running in my car. The radiator should be
     available in about 2 weeks....$650.00 .+ shipping..I can send
     pictures.
     Their warranty
     is unconditional excluding damage not caused by
     manufacture.
     Independent Antique Radiator
     200 Berg St.
     Algonquin, Il.
     Image removed by
     sender. 847-458-7400
     Gerry
     VP Great Lakes Pantera Club
     ____________________________________________________________________
     ___
     From: "Charles McCall" <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
     To: "Al Chelini" <pantera at cox.net>
     Cc: "Mike Drew" <mikeldrew at aol.com>, detomaso at poca.com
     Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 7:29:21 AM
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
     Inquiry sent, Al, thanks. May be in the market for a new radiator,
     as
     mine
     is marking its territory a Little more every day. A lifetime
     warranty
     would
     be fantastic!
     On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Al
     Chelini <pantera at cox.net>
     wrote:
     > Hi, gang,
     > FWIW, I just got thru
     with a leaky radiator project on another
     > (extensively modified)
     make vehicle, which came with a Ron Davis
     (RD)
     > radiator.A That RD
     unit developed some serious leaks along the
     top &
     > bottom ends where the
     side tanks meet the supporting rails; and I
     > thought I'd share this
     learning experience with the group.
     > After calling RD's
     Customer Support seeking repairs, I found that:
     > 1) they can't repair an
     aluminum radiator once it's come in
     contact
     > with radiator coolant.
     They claim it contaminates the metal,
     making it
     > impossible to TIG weld
     successfully.
     > 2) they will be happy to
     sell me a new unit .....A about $1000,
     > delivered.A But,
     with only their standard 90 day limited
     warranty.
     > Kinda' chintzy policy
     for such an expensive part, when the GM
     > replacement version is
     only $150. Are these things considered a
     > consumable, like brake
     pads?
     > 3) On a recommendation
     from a trusted source, I picked up a
     Mishimoto
     > radiator for about 40%
     the cost of a new RD, and it has a Lifetime
     > warranty. Everyone who
     has seen the new part claims that the
     > workmanship is superior
     to the RD.A
     > 4) But, I checked the
     [1]mishimoto.com website, they don't offer
     one
     > for the Pantera
     (yet).A But, I did leave an email suggesting that
     they
     > market one.
     > Here's the pitch: Maybe
     if a few other list members would contact
     them
     > expressing a desire to
     buy their Pantera version, they might be
     > motivated to start
     producing them. They make radiators for cars
     which
     > are much lower volume
     than the Pantera.
     > Bonus: Mishimoto is a
     huge company, and their customer service is
     > outstanding. The
     Lifetime warranty sold me.
     > Final thought:
     > The OEM Pantera radiator
     is a very good part; but, some of these
     were
     > not built correctly.
     Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) #8, article
     61
     > describes a correcting
     modification which can be done by a
     competent
     > radiator shop.
     > FWIW,
     > Al (3915)
     >
     ==================================================================
     > On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at
     1:26 AM, michael barnes
     > <[2]michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk>
     wrote:
     >
     > I bought a
     Superior radiator,it was made upside down so
     obviously
     > wouldn't fit
     .After sales was shocking , three months and no
     > replacement d-!
     > Sent by Michael
     Barnes
     > > On 29 Jun
     2015, at 07:05, Ed Mendez <[3]edducati at mac.com>
     wrote:
     > >
     > > I have a
     stock radiator for sale if anyone interested. It has
     a
     > radiator cap on
     it which weird but I suppose you can weld that
     off?
     > >
     > > Ed
     > >
     > >
     > >> On Jun
     28, 2015, at 21:10, marshallgsmith
     > <[4]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
     wrote:
     > >>
     > >>A
     Don't discount the original radiator. It is very good and
     has
     > cooled my
     > >>A
     car for many years.All that is needed is modern day high
     volume
     > fans.
     > >>
     > >>A
     Marshall
     > >>
     > >>A
     Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
     > >>
     > >>A
     -------- Original message --------
     > >>A
     From: Julian Kift <[5]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
     > >>A
     Date: 06/28/2015 8:52 PM (GMT-08:00)
     > >>A
     To: [6]mikeldrew at aol.com,
     [7]steve at snclocks.com,
     > [8]detomaso at poca.com
     > >>A
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
     > >>A
     For other options in aluminum Ron Davies makes a nice
     radiator
     > for the
     > >>A
     Pantera by all accounts and Superior Radiator sells their
     > version on
     > >>A
     eBay with some happy customers.
     > >>A
     Julian
     > >>A
     Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:10:23 -0400
     > >>A
     To: [9]steve at snclocks.com;
     [10]detomaso at poca.com
     > >>A
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
     > >>A
     From: [11]detomaso at poca.com
     > >>A
     In a message dated 6/28/15 15 34 37, [12]steve at snclocks.com
     > writes:
     > >>>
     Whilst I am enjoying driving 5332, I noticed that I have a
     seep
     > from
     > >>>
     where one of the radiator tubes enters the header tank.A
     Looks
     > like
     > >>A
     it has been
     > >>>
     there a while, small seep, but left a puddle when I ran the
     > engine at
     > >>A
     1500
     > >>> rpm
     for 10 minutes to charge the a/c.A It's a Fluidyne
     > radiator,
     > >>A
     bought
     > >>> and
     installed in 2011, with perhaps 4,000 miles on it.
     > >>>
     >
     >>>>> Bummer.A A Many have discovered
     to their sadness that
     > Fluidyne
     > >>A
     radiators
     > >>A
     (at least the first-generation models for the Pantera)
     cooled
     > very well
     > >
     >
     _______________________________________________
     > Detomaso Forum
     Managed by POCA
     > Posted emails
     must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing
     list
     > [13]DeTomaso at poca.com
     > [14][2]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     > To manage your
     subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     > etc.) use the
     links above.
     >
     > On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at
     1:26 AM, michael barnes
     > <[15]michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk>
     wrote:
     >
     > I bought a
     Superior radiator,it was made upside down so
     obviously
     > wouldn't fit
     .After sales was shocking , three months and no
     > replacement d-!
     > Sent by Michael
     Barnes
     > > On 29 Jun
     2015, at 07:05, Ed Mendez <[16]edducati at mac.com>
     wrote:
     > >
     > > I have a
     stock radiator for sale if anyone interested. It has
     a
     > radiator cap on
     it which weird but I suppose you can weld that
     off?
     > >
     > > Ed
     > >
     > >
     > >> On Jun
     28, 2015, at 21:10, marshallgsmith
     > <[17]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
     wrote:
     > >>
     > >>A
     Don't discount the original radiator. It is very good and
     has
     > cooled my
     > >>A
     car for many years.All that is needed is modern day high
     volume
     > fans.
     > >>
     > >>A
     Marshall
     > >>
     > >>A
     Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
     > >>
     > >>A
     -------- Original message --------
     > >>A
     From: Julian Kift <[18]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
     > >>A
     Date: 06/28/2015 8:52 PM (GMT-08:00)
     > >>A
     To: [19]mikeldrew at aol.com,
     [20]steve at snclocks.com,
     > [21]detomaso at poca.com
     > >>A
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
     > >>A
     For other options in aluminum Ron Davies makes a nice
     radiator
     > for the
     > >>A
     Pantera by all accounts and Superior Radiator sells their
     > version on
     > >>A
     eBay with some happy customers.
     > >>A
     Julian
     > >>A
     Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:10:23 -0400
     > >>A
     To: [22]steve at snclocks.com;
     [23]detomaso at poca.com
     > >>A
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
     > >>A
     From: [24]detomaso at poca.com
     > >>A
     In a message dated 6/28/15 15 34 37, [25]steve at snclocks.com
     > writes:
     > >>>
     Whilst I am enjoying driving 5332, I noticed that I have a
     seep
     > from
     > >>>
     where one of the radiator tubes enters the header tank.A
     Looks
     > like
     > >>A
     it has been
     > >>>
     there a while, small seep, but left a puddle when I ran the
     > engine at
     > >>A
     1500
     > >>> rpm
     for 10 minutes to charge the a/c.A It's a Fluidyne
     > radiator,
     > >>A
     bought
     > >>> and
     installed in 2011, with perhaps 4,000 miles on it.
     > >>>
     >
     >>>>> Bummer.A A Many have discovered
     to their sadness that
     > Fluidyne
     > >>A
     radiators
     > >>A
     (at least the first-generation models for the Pantera)
     cooled
     > very well
     > >
     >
     _______________________________________________
     > Detomaso Forum
     Managed by POCA
     > Posted emails
     must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing
     list
     > [26]DeTomaso at poca.com
     > [27][3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     > To manage your
     subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     > etc.) use the
     links above.
     >
     > References
     >
     > 1. [4]http://mishimoto.com/
     > 2. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
     > 3. mailto:edducati at mac.com
     > 4. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
     > 5. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
     > 6. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
     > 7. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
     > 8. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
     > 9. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
     > 10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
     > 11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
     > 12. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
     > 13. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
     > 14. [5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     > 15. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
     > 16. mailto:edducati at mac.com
     > 17. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
     > 18. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
     > 19. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
     > 20. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
     > 21. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
     > 22. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
     > 23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
     > 24. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
     > 25. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
     > 26. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
     > 27. [6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     >
     >
     _______________________________________________
     >
     > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
     Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing list
     > DeTomaso at poca.com
     > [7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
     use
     > the links above.
     >
     >
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
     Megabytes
     DeTomaso mailing list
     DeTomaso at poca.com
     [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
     use the links above.
     -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
     DeTomaso at poca.com
     [9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.) use the links above.
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
     DeTomaso at poca.com
     [10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.) use the links above.
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
     DeTomaso at poca.com
     [11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.) use the links above.
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
     DeTomaso at poca.com
     [12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.) use the links above.
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     DeTomaso mailing list
     DeTomaso at poca.com
     [13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.) use the links above.

References

   1. http://stewartcomponents.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=13
   2. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   4. http://mishimoto.com/
   5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com


More information about the DeTomaso mailing list