[DeTomaso] Radiators
Charles Engles
cengles at cox.net
Mon Jun 29 21:12:30 EDT 2015
Dear Stephen,
You wrote: "Being an engineer who has designed air-cooled heat
exchangers"....and... "I suspect that the 12 inch pushers will beat the 13
inch suckers, especially when moving down the road at low speeds."
That is surprising. It seems like it is settled science that sucker
fans are more efficient, therefore they should beat the 12 pushers.
As an engineer, are sucker fans inherently more efficient? So there
is some reason why my old Mariah pusher fans continue to cool the
radiator??
Very curious, Chuck Engles
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Stephen
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 7:35 PM
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
Being an engineer who has designed air-cooled heat exchangers I get a
chuckle out of the logic some of the vendors use. I can easily understand
why Marshall would believe multiple passes would be better - but there are
so many other issues - turbulence being a biggie, and the reality that the
limiting heat transfer coefficient is on the air side, making things like
the heat transfer coefficient of the metals involved a lot less important.
As the folks at FlowKooler commented when I was talking to them about a
radiator - it all comes down to cfm of air... Well, perhaps not all, but it
matters a lot.
Which makes the system offered by Pantera Performance (two 13-inch sucker
fans) and Hall (two 12 inch pusher fans) both odds-on favorites. Whilst I
am not about to try to run the calcs, I suspect that the 12 inch pushers
will beat the 13 inch suckers, especially when moving down the road at low
speeds.
Still scratching my head on what to replace the Fluidyne with.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via
DeTomaso
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 2:27 PM
To: marshall smith; GR2835 at comcast.net; detomaso at poca.com; Charles McCall
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
It seems like experience and opinions on radiator are all over the place.
The Stewart web site
(http://stewartcomponents.com/index.php?route=information/information&inform
ation_id=13) has a technical article that says benefits from a modern multi
pass radiator are a myth:
Tech Tip #5 - Radiators & External Plumbing Radiators Thicker radiators do
have slightly more airflow resistance than thinner radiators but the
difference is minimal. A 4" radiator has only approximately 10% more airflow
resistance than a 2" radiator.
In past years, hot rodders and racers would sometimes install a thicker
radiator and actually notice decreased cooling. They erroneously came to the
conclusion that the air could not flow adequately through the thick
radiator, and therefore became fully heat-saturated before exiting the rear
of the radiator core. The actual explanation for the decreased cooling was
not the air flow, but the coolant flow. The older radiators used the narrow
tube design with larger cross section. Coolant must flow through a radiator
tube at a velocity adequate to create turbulence.
The turbulence allows the water in the center of the tube to be forced
against the outside of the tube, which allows for better thermal transfer
between the coolant and the tube surface. The coolant velocity actually
decreases, and subsequently its ability to create the required turbulence,
in direct relation to the increase in thickness. If the thickness of the
core is doubled, the coolant velocity is halved. Modern radiators, using
wide tubes and less cross section area, require less velocity to achieve
optimum thermal transfer. The older radiators benefited from baffling inside
the tanks and forcing the coolant through a serpentine configuration. This
increased velocity and thus the required turbulence was restored.
Radiators with a higher number of fins will cool better than a comparable
radiator with less fins, assuming it is clean. However, a higher fin count
is very difficult to keep clean. Determining the best compromise depends on
the actual conditions of operation.
Double pass radiators require 16x more pressure to flow the same volume of
coolant through them, as compared to a single pass radiator. Triple pass
radiators require 64x more pressure to maintain the same volume. Automotive
water pumps are a centrifugal design, not positive displacement, so with a
double pass radiator, the pressure is doubled and flow is reduced by
approximately 33%. Modern radiator designs, using wide/thin cross sections
tubes, seldom benefit from multiple pass configurations. The decrease in
flow caused by multiple passes offsets any benefits of a high-flow water
pump.
Gross flow radiators are superior to upright radiators because the radiator
cap is positioned on the low pressure (suction) side of the system. This
prevents the pressure created by a high-flow water pump from forcing coolant
past the radiator cap at high RPM. As mentioned in the radiator cap section,
an upright radiator should be equipped with radiator cap with the highest
pressure rating recommended by the manufacturer. The system will still force
coolant past the cap at sustained high RPM.
Kinda hard to know what the current truth is? Maybe 30 years ago a
multi-pass was better but not with a modern radiator?
Ken
From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: GR2835 at comcast.net; detomaso at poca.com; Charles McCall
<charlesmccall at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
In reference to the Independent Antique Radiator described below, I would be
a little skeptical about having only 3 rows and more concerned about coolant
making only one pass through the unit. I believe the coolant should make two
passes through the radiator to properly cool the liquid.
JMHO....
M
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 6/29/15, Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
To: GR2835 at comcast.net, detomaso at poca.com
Date: Monday, June 29, 2015, 11:27 AM
Quick reply from
Mishimoto:
Charles,
Thanks for the E-mail!
Unfortunately, at this time we do not offer an aluminum radiator for
the DeTomaso Pantera. I am sorry for any inconvenience. However, I will
be happy to add your information to our product suggestion list! If we
do decide to come out with a product that matches your description, we
will be sure to contact you!
Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with!
Mishimoto strives for the best Customer Service. Have I fully resolved
any questions or concerns you were
contacting us about today?
Thanks,
Gerry - thanks for the info... Quite interested, although a little
turned off by the fact that I would need new tubes under the chassis. A
few years ago I bought all new SS tubing (so that it would never wear
out!!) Let us know how you like it - I'm thinking that Santa would be a
perfect guy to guy shopping for me, so I'm not in a hurry but am
keeping my eyes open for the best
solution
From: GR2835 at comcast.net
[mailto:GR2835 at comcast.net]
Sent: lunes, 29 de junio de 2015 17:54
To: Charles McCall
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
Charles,
You wanted
lifetime.........warranty
Independent Antique Radiator in
Algonquin, Illinois , will be
selling an all brass, 3 core, extruded tube (no seams), single pass
radiator that is a direct replacement for a Pantera radiator. It even
has the new dimpled fins for more heat dissapation........designed for
the air conditioning condenser to be mounted in front and sucker fans
recommended by Jon Haas to be mounted behind.
This radiator has the heat sensor screw in mounted on the drivers
side as recommended by John Haas and included in his radiator fan
controller kit.
This radiator requires new
tubes to be made from the under chassis
tubes.....Inlet on the passenger side and outlet on the drivers side.
Current prototype is running in my car. The radiator should be
available in about 2 weeks....$650.00 .+ shipping..I can send pictures.
Their warranty
is unconditional excluding damage not caused by
manufacture.
Independent Antique Radiator
200 Berg St.
Algonquin, Il.
Image removed by
sender. 847-458-7400
Gerry
VP Great Lakes Pantera Club
_______________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles McCall" <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
To: "Al Chelini" <pantera at cox.net>
Cc: "Mike Drew" <mikeldrew at aol.com>, detomaso at poca.com
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 7:29:21 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
Inquiry sent, Al, thanks. May be in the market for a new radiator, as
mine
is marking its territory a Little more every day. A lifetime warranty
would
be fantastic!
On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Al
Chelini <pantera at cox.net>
wrote:
> Hi, gang,
> FWIW, I just got thru
with a leaky radiator project on another
> (extensively modified)
make vehicle, which came with a Ron Davis
(RD)
> radiator.A That RD
unit developed some serious leaks along the
top &
> bottom ends where the
side tanks meet the supporting rails; and I
> thought I'd share this
learning experience with the group.
> After calling RD's
Customer Support seeking repairs, I found that:
> 1) they can't repair an
aluminum radiator once it's come in
contact
> with radiator coolant.
They claim it contaminates the metal,
making it
> impossible to TIG weld
successfully.
> 2) they will be happy to
sell me a new unit .....A about $1000,
> delivered.A But,
with only their standard 90 day limited
warranty.
> Kinda' chintzy policy
for such an expensive part, when the GM
> replacement version is
only $150. Are these things considered a
> consumable, like brake
pads?
> 3) On a recommendation
from a trusted source, I picked up a
Mishimoto
> radiator for about 40%
the cost of a new RD, and it has a Lifetime
> warranty. Everyone who
has seen the new part claims that the
> workmanship is superior
to the RD.A
> 4) But, I checked the
[1]mishimoto.com website, they don't offer
one
> for the Pantera
(yet).A But, I did leave an email suggesting that
they
> market one.
> Here's the pitch: Maybe
if a few other list members would contact
them
> expressing a desire to
buy their Pantera version, they might be
> motivated to start
producing them. They make radiators for cars
which
> are much lower volume
than the Pantera.
> Bonus: Mishimoto is a
huge company, and their customer service is
> outstanding. The
Lifetime warranty sold me.
> Final thought:
> The OEM Pantera radiator
is a very good part; but, some of these
were
> not built correctly.
Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) #8, article
61
> describes a correcting
modification which can be done by a
competent
> radiator shop.
> FWIW,
> Al (3915)
>
==================================================================
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at
1:26 AM, michael barnes
> <[2]michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
>
> I bought a
Superior radiator,it was made upside down so
obviously
> wouldn't fit
.After sales was shocking , three months and no
> replacement d-!
> Sent by Michael
Barnes
> > On 29 Jun
2015, at 07:05, Ed Mendez <[3]edducati at mac.com>
wrote:
> >
> > I have a
stock radiator for sale if anyone interested. It has
a
> radiator cap on
it which weird but I suppose you can weld that
off?
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >> On Jun
28, 2015, at 21:10, marshallgsmith
> <[4]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> >>
> >>A
Don't discount the original radiator. It is very good and
has
> cooled my
> >>A
car for many years.All that is needed is modern day high
volume
> fans.
> >>
> >>A
Marshall
> >>
> >>A
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
> >>
> >>A
-------- Original message --------
> >>A
From: Julian Kift <[5]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> >>A
Date: 06/28/2015 8:52 PM (GMT-08:00)
> >>A
To: [6]mikeldrew at aol.com,
[7]steve at snclocks.com,
> [8]detomaso at poca.com
> >>A
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
> >>A
For other options in aluminum Ron Davies makes a nice
radiator
> for the
> >>A
Pantera by all accounts and Superior Radiator sells their
> version on
> >>A
eBay with some happy customers.
> >>A
Julian
> >>A
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:10:23 -0400
> >>A
To: [9]steve at snclocks.com;
[10]detomaso at poca.com
> >>A
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
> >>A
From: [11]detomaso at poca.com
> >>A
In a message dated 6/28/15 15 34 37, [12]steve at snclocks.com
> writes:
> >>>
Whilst I am enjoying driving 5332, I noticed that I have a
seep
> from
> >>>
where one of the radiator tubes enters the header tank.A
Looks
> like
> >>A
it has been
> >>>
there a while, small seep, but left a puddle when I ran the
> engine at
> >>A
1500
> >>> rpm
for 10 minutes to charge the a/c.A It's a Fluidyne
> radiator,
> >>A
bought
> >>> and
installed in 2011, with perhaps 4,000 miles on it.
> >>>
>
>>>>> Bummer.A A Many have discovered
to their sadness that
> Fluidyne
> >>A
radiators
> >>A
(at least the first-generation models for the Pantera)
cooled
> very well
> >
>
_______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum
Managed by POCA
> Posted emails
must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing
list
> [13]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your
subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the
links above.
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at
1:26 AM, michael barnes
> <[15]michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
>
> I bought a
Superior radiator,it was made upside down so
obviously
> wouldn't fit
.After sales was shocking , three months and no
> replacement d-!
> Sent by Michael
Barnes
> > On 29 Jun
2015, at 07:05, Ed Mendez <[16]edducati at mac.com>
wrote:
> >
> > I have a
stock radiator for sale if anyone interested. It has
a
> radiator cap on
it which weird but I suppose you can weld that
off?
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >> On Jun
28, 2015, at 21:10, marshallgsmith
> <[17]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> >>
> >>A
Don't discount the original radiator. It is very good and
has
> cooled my
> >>A
car for many years.All that is needed is modern day high
volume
> fans.
> >>
> >>A
Marshall
> >>
> >>A
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
> >>
> >>A
-------- Original message --------
> >>A
From: Julian Kift <[18]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> >>A
Date: 06/28/2015 8:52 PM (GMT-08:00)
> >>A
To: [19]mikeldrew at aol.com,
[20]steve at snclocks.com,
> [21]detomaso at poca.com
> >>A
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
> >>A
For other options in aluminum Ron Davies makes a nice
radiator
> for the
> >>A
Pantera by all accounts and Superior Radiator sells their
> version on
> >>A
eBay with some happy customers.
> >>A
Julian
> >>A
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:10:23 -0400
> >>A
To: [22]steve at snclocks.com;
[23]detomaso at poca.com
> >>A
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
> >>A
From: [24]detomaso at poca.com
> >>A
In a message dated 6/28/15 15 34 37, [25]steve at snclocks.com
> writes:
> >>>
Whilst I am enjoying driving 5332, I noticed that I have a
seep
> from
> >>>
where one of the radiator tubes enters the header tank.A
Looks
> like
> >>A
it has been
> >>>
there a while, small seep, but left a puddle when I ran the
> engine at
> >>A
1500
> >>> rpm
for 10 minutes to charge the a/c.A It's a Fluidyne
> radiator,
> >>A
bought
> >>> and
installed in 2011, with perhaps 4,000 miles on it.
> >>>
>
>>>>> Bummer.A A Many have discovered
to their sadness that
> Fluidyne
> >>A
radiators
> >>A
(at least the first-generation models for the Pantera)
cooled
> very well
> >
>
_______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum
Managed by POCA
> Posted emails
must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing
list
> [26]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [27]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your
subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the
links above.
>
> References
>
> 1. http://mishimoto.com/
> 2. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
> 3. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 4. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 5. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 6. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
> 7. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 8. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 9. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 12. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 13. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 15. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
> 16. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 17. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 18. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 19. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
> 20. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 21. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 22. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 24. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 25. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 26. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 27. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
_______________________________________________
>
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Megabytes
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>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
> the links above.
>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
Dear Stephen,
You wrote: "Being an engineer who has designed air-cooled
heat exchangers"....and... "I suspect that the 12 inch pushers will
beat the 13 inch suckers, especially when moving down the road at low
speeds."
That is surprising. It seems like it is settled science that
sucker fans are more efficient, therefore they should beat the 12
pushers.
As an engineer, are sucker fans inherently more efficient? So
there is some reason why my old Mariah pusher fans continue to cool
the radiator??
Very curious, Chuck Engles
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[1]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
Stephen
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 7:35 PM
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
Being an engineer who has designed air-cooled heat exchangers I get a
chuckle out of the logic some of the vendors use. I can easily
understand why Marshall would believe multiple passes would be better -
but there are so many other issues - turbulence being a biggie, and the
reality that the limiting heat transfer coefficient is on the air side,
making things like the heat transfer coefficient of the metals involved
a lot less important.
As the folks at FlowKooler commented when I was talking to them about a
radiator - it all comes down to cfm of air... Well, perhaps not all,
but it matters a lot.
Which makes the system offered by Pantera Performance (two 13-inch
sucker fans) and Hall (two 12 inch pusher fans) both odds-on
favorites. Whilst I am not about to try to run the calcs, I suspect
that the 12 inch pushers will beat the 13 inch suckers, especially when
moving down the road at low speeds.
Still scratching my head on what to replace the Fluidyne with.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[2]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Green via DeTomaso
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 2:27 PM
To: marshall smith; [3]GR2835 at comcast.net; [4]detomaso at poca.com;
Charles McCall
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
It seems like experience and opinions on radiator are all over the
place. The Stewart web site
([5]http://stewartcomponents.com/index.php?route=information/informatio
n&information_id=13) has a technical article that says benefits from a
modern multi pass radiator are a myth:
Tech Tip #5 - Radiators & External Plumbing Radiators Thicker
radiators do have slightly more airflow resistance than thinner
radiators but the difference is minimal. A 4" radiator has only
approximately 10% more airflow resistance than a 2" radiator.
In past years, hot rodders and racers would sometimes install a thicker
radiator and actually notice decreased cooling. They erroneously came
to the conclusion that the air could not flow adequately through the
thick radiator, and therefore became fully heat-saturated before
exiting the rear of the radiator core. The actual explanation for the
decreased cooling was not the air flow, but the coolant flow. The older
radiators used the narrow tube design with larger cross section.
Coolant must flow through a radiator tube at a velocity adequate to
create turbulence.
The turbulence allows the water in the center of the tube to be forced
against the outside of the tube, which allows for better thermal
transfer between the coolant and the tube surface. The coolant velocity
actually decreases, and subsequently its ability to create the required
turbulence, in direct relation to the increase in thickness. If the
thickness of the core is doubled, the coolant velocity is halved.
Modern radiators, using wide tubes and less cross section area, require
less velocity to achieve optimum thermal transfer. The older radiators
benefited from baffling inside the tanks and forcing the coolant
through a serpentine configuration. This increased velocity and thus
the required turbulence was restored.
Radiators with a higher number of fins will cool better than a
comparable radiator with less fins, assuming it is clean. However, a
higher fin count is very difficult to keep clean. Determining the best
compromise depends on the actual conditions of operation.
Double pass radiators require 16x more pressure to flow the same volume
of coolant through them, as compared to a single pass radiator. Triple
pass radiators require 64x more pressure to maintain the same volume.
Automotive water pumps are a centrifugal design, not positive
displacement, so with a double pass radiator, the pressure is doubled
and flow is reduced by approximately 33%. Modern radiator designs,
using wide/thin cross sections tubes, seldom benefit from multiple pass
configurations. The decrease in flow caused by multiple passes offsets
any benefits of a high-flow water pump.
Gross flow radiators are superior to upright radiators because the
radiator cap is positioned on the low pressure (suction) side of the
system. This prevents the pressure created by a high-flow water pump
from forcing coolant past the radiator cap at high RPM. As mentioned in
the radiator cap section, an upright radiator should be equipped with
radiator cap with the highest pressure rating recommended by the
manufacturer. The system will still force coolant past the cap at
sustained high RPM.
Kinda hard to know what the current truth is? Maybe 30 years ago a
multi-pass was better but not with a modern radiator?
Ken
From: marshall smith <[6]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: [7]GR2835 at comcast.net; [8]detomaso at poca.com; Charles McCall
<[9]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
In reference to the Independent Antique Radiator described below, I
would be a little skeptical about having only 3 rows and more concerned
about coolant making only one pass through the unit. I believe the
coolant should make two passes through the radiator to properly cool
the liquid.
JMHO....
M
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 6/29/15, Charles McCall <[10]charlesmccall at gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
To: [11]GR2835 at comcast.net, [12]detomaso at poca.com
Date: Monday, June 29, 2015, 11:27 AM
Quick reply from
Mishimoto:
Charles,
Thanks for the E-mail!
Unfortunately, at this time we do not offer an aluminum radiator
for
the DeTomaso Pantera. I am sorry for any inconvenience. However, I
will
be happy to add your information to our product suggestion list!
If we
do decide to come out with a product that matches your
description, we
will be sure to contact you!
Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with!
Mishimoto strives for the best Customer Service. Have I fully
resolved
any questions or concerns you were
contacting us about today?
Thanks,
Gerry - thanks for the info... Quite interested, although a little
turned off by the fact that I would need new tubes under the
chassis. A
few years ago I bought all new SS tubing (so that it would never
wear
out!!) Let us know how you like it - I'm thinking that Santa would
be a
perfect guy to guy shopping for me, so I'm not in a hurry but am
keeping my eyes open for the best
solution
From: [13]GR2835 at comcast.net
[[14]mailto:GR2835 at comcast.net]
Sent: lunes, 29 de junio de 2015 17:54
To: Charles McCall
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
Charles,
You wanted
lifetime.........warranty
Independent Antique Radiator in
Algonquin, Illinois , will be
selling an all brass, 3 core, extruded tube (no seams), single
pass
radiator that is a direct replacement for a Pantera radiator. It
even
has the new dimpled fins for more heat dissapation........designed
for
the air conditioning condenser to be mounted in front and sucker
fans
recommended by Jon Haas to be mounted behind.
This radiator has the heat sensor screw in mounted on the
drivers
side as recommended by John Haas and included in his radiator fan
controller kit.
This radiator requires new
tubes to be made from the under chassis
tubes.....Inlet on the passenger side and outlet on the drivers
side.
Current prototype is running in my car. The radiator should
be
available in about 2 weeks....$650.00 .+ shipping..I can send
pictures.
Their warranty
is unconditional excluding damage not caused by
manufacture.
Independent Antique Radiator
200 Berg St.
Algonquin, Il.
Image removed by
sender. 847-458-7400
Gerry
VP Great Lakes Pantera Club
_______________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles McCall" <[15]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
To: "Al Chelini" <[16]pantera at cox.net>
Cc: "Mike Drew" <[17]mikeldrew at aol.com>, [18]detomaso at poca.com
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 7:29:21 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
Inquiry sent, Al, thanks. May be in the market for a new radiator,
as
mine
is marking its territory a Little more every day. A lifetime
warranty
would
be fantastic!
On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Al
Chelini <[19]pantera at cox.net>
wrote:
> Hi, gang,
> FWIW, I just got thru
with a leaky radiator project on another
> (extensively modified)
make vehicle, which came with a Ron Davis
(RD)
> radiator.A That RD
unit developed some serious leaks along the
top &
> bottom ends where the
side tanks meet the supporting rails; and I
> thought I'd share this
learning experience with the group.
> After calling RD's
Customer Support seeking repairs, I found that:
> 1) they can't repair an
aluminum radiator once it's come in
contact
> with radiator coolant.
They claim it contaminates the metal,
making it
> impossible to TIG weld
successfully.
> 2) they will be happy to
sell me a new unit .....A about $1000,
> delivered.A But,
with only their standard 90 day limited
warranty.
> Kinda' chintzy policy
for such an expensive part, when the GM
> replacement version is
only $150. Are these things considered a
> consumable, like brake
pads?
> 3) On a recommendation
from a trusted source, I picked up a
Mishimoto
> radiator for about 40%
the cost of a new RD, and it has a Lifetime
> warranty. Everyone who
has seen the new part claims that the
> workmanship is superior
to the RD.A
> 4) But, I checked the
[1]mishimoto.com website, they don't offer
one
> for the Pantera
(yet).A But, I did leave an email suggesting that
they
> market one.
> Here's the pitch: Maybe
if a few other list members would contact
them
> expressing a desire to
buy their Pantera version, they might be
> motivated to start
producing them. They make radiators for cars
which
> are much lower volume
than the Pantera.
> Bonus: Mishimoto is a
huge company, and their customer service is
> outstanding. The
Lifetime warranty sold me.
> Final thought:
> The OEM Pantera radiator
is a very good part; but, some of these
were
> not built correctly.
Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) #8, article
61
> describes a correcting
modification which can be done by a
competent
> radiator shop.
> FWIW,
> Al (3915)
>
==================================================================
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at
1:26 AM, michael barnes
> <[2][20]michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
>
> I bought a
Superior radiator,it was made upside down so
obviously
> wouldn't fit
.After sales was shocking , three months and no
> replacement d-!
> Sent by Michael
Barnes
> > On 29 Jun
2015, at 07:05, Ed Mendez <[3][21]edducati at mac.com>
wrote:
> >
> > I have a
stock radiator for sale if anyone interested. It has
a
> radiator cap on
it which weird but I suppose you can weld that
off?
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >> On Jun
28, 2015, at 21:10, marshallgsmith
> <[4][22]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> >>
> >>A
Don't discount the original radiator. It is very good and
has
> cooled my
> >>A
car for many years.All that is needed is modern day high
volume
> fans.
> >>
> >>A
Marshall
> >>
> >>A
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
> >>
> >>A
-------- Original message --------
> >>A
From: Julian Kift <[5][23]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> >>A
Date: 06/28/2015 8:52 PM (GMT-08:00)
> >>A
To: [6][24]mikeldrew at aol.com,
[7][25]steve at snclocks.com,
> [8][26]detomaso at poca.com
> >>A
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
> >>A
For other options in aluminum Ron Davies makes a nice
radiator
> for the
> >>A
Pantera by all accounts and Superior Radiator sells their
> version on
> >>A
eBay with some happy customers.
> >>A
Julian
> >>A
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:10:23 -0400
> >>A
To: [9][27]steve at snclocks.com;
[10][28]detomaso at poca.com
> >>A
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
> >>A
From: [11][29]detomaso at poca.com
> >>A
In a message dated 6/28/15 15 34 37, [12][30]steve at snclocks.com
> writes:
> >>>
Whilst I am enjoying driving 5332, I noticed that I have a
seep
> from
> >>>
where one of the radiator tubes enters the header tank.A
Looks
> like
> >>A
it has been
> >>>
there a while, small seep, but left a puddle when I ran the
> engine at
> >>A
1500
> >>> rpm
for 10 minutes to charge the a/c.A It's a Fluidyne
> radiator,
> >>A
bought
> >>> and
installed in 2011, with perhaps 4,000 miles on it.
> >>>
>
>>>>> Bummer.A A Many have discovered
to their sadness that
> Fluidyne
> >>A
radiators
> >>A
(at least the first-generation models for the Pantera)
cooled
> very well
> >
>
_______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum
Managed by POCA
> Posted emails
must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing
list
> [13][31]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [14][32]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your
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> etc.) use the
links above.
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at
1:26 AM, michael barnes
> <[15][33]michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
>
> I bought a
Superior radiator,it was made upside down so
obviously
> wouldn't fit
.After sales was shocking , three months and no
> replacement d-!
> Sent by Michael
Barnes
> > On 29 Jun
2015, at 07:05, Ed Mendez <[16][34]edducati at mac.com>
wrote:
> >
> > I have a
stock radiator for sale if anyone interested. It has
a
> radiator cap on
it which weird but I suppose you can weld that
off?
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >> On Jun
28, 2015, at 21:10, marshallgsmith
> <[17][35]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> >>
> >>A
Don't discount the original radiator. It is very good and
has
> cooled my
> >>A
car for many years.All that is needed is modern day high
volume
> fans.
> >>
> >>A
Marshall
> >>
> >>A
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
> >>
> >>A
-------- Original message --------
> >>A
From: Julian Kift <[18][36]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> >>A
Date: 06/28/2015 8:52 PM (GMT-08:00)
> >>A
To: [19][37]mikeldrew at aol.com,
[20][38]steve at snclocks.com,
> [21][39]detomaso at poca.com
> >>A
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
> >>A
For other options in aluminum Ron Davies makes a nice
radiator
> for the
> >>A
Pantera by all accounts and Superior Radiator sells their
> version on
> >>A
eBay with some happy customers.
> >>A
Julian
> >>A
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:10:23 -0400
> >>A
To: [22][40]steve at snclocks.com;
[23][41]detomaso at poca.com
> >>A
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
> >>A
From: [24][42]detomaso at poca.com
> >>A
In a message dated 6/28/15 15 34 37, [25][43]steve at snclocks.com
> writes:
> >>>
Whilst I am enjoying driving 5332, I noticed that I have a
seep
> from
> >>>
where one of the radiator tubes enters the header tank.A
Looks
> like
> >>A
it has been
> >>>
there a while, small seep, but left a puddle when I ran the
> engine at
> >>A
1500
> >>> rpm
for 10 minutes to charge the a/c.A It's a Fluidyne
> radiator,
> >>A
bought
> >>> and
installed in 2011, with perhaps 4,000 miles on it.
> >>>
>
>>>>> Bummer.A A Many have discovered
to their sadness that
> Fluidyne
> >>A
radiators
> >>A
(at least the first-generation models for the Pantera)
cooled
> very well
> >
>
_______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum
Managed by POCA
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>
> References
>
> 1. [46]http://mishimoto.com/
> 2. [47]mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
> 3. [48]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 4. [49]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 5. [50]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 6. [51]mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
> 7. [52]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 8. [53]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 9. [54]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 10. [55]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 11. [56]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 12. [57]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 13. [58]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 14. [59]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 15. [60]mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
> 16. [61]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 17. [62]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 18. [63]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 19. [64]mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
> 20. [65]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 21. [66]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 22. [67]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 23. [68]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 24. [69]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 25. [70]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 26. [71]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 27. [72]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
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> the links above.
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>
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[79]DeTomaso at poca.com
[80]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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References
1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
3. mailto:GR2835 at comcast.net
4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
5. http://stewartcomponents.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=13
6. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
7. mailto:GR2835 at comcast.net
8. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
9. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
10. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
11. mailto:GR2835 at comcast.net
12. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
13. mailto:GR2835 at comcast.net
14. mailto:GR2835 at comcast.net
15. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
16. mailto:pantera at cox.net
17. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
18. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
19. mailto:pantera at cox.net
20. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
21. mailto:edducati at mac.com
22. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
23. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
24. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
25. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
26. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
27. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
28. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
29. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
30. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
33. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
34. mailto:edducati at mac.com
35. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
36. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
37. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
38. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
39. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
40. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
41. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
42. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
43. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
44. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
45. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
46. http://mishimoto.com/
47. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
48. mailto:edducati at mac.com
49. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
50. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
51. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
52. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
53. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
54. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
55. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
56. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
57. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
58. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
59. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
60. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
61. mailto:edducati at mac.com
62. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
63. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
64. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
65. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
66. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
67. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
68. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
69. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
70. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
71. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
72. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
73. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
74. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
75. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
76. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
77. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
78. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
79. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
80. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
81. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
82. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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