[DeTomaso] Radiators

Ken Green kenn_green at yahoo.com
Mon Jun 29 17:27:10 EDT 2015


It seems like experience and opinions on radiator are all over the place.  The Stewart web site (http://stewartcomponents.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=13) has a technical article that says benefits from a modern multi pass radiator are a myth:





Tech Tip #5 - Radiators & External Plumbing
Radiators
 Thicker radiators do have slightly more airflow resistance than thinner radiators but the difference is minimal. A 4" radiator has only approximately 10% more airflow resistance than a 2" radiator.
In past years, hot rodders and racers would sometimes install a thicker radiator and actually notice decreased cooling. They erroneously came to the conclusion that the air could not flow adequately through the thick radiator, and therefore became fully heat-saturated before exiting the rear of the radiator core. The actual explanation for the decreased cooling was not the air flow, but the coolant flow. The older radiators used the narrow tube design with larger cross section. Coolant must flow through a radiator tube at a velocity adequate to create turbulence.
The turbulence allows the water in the center of the tube to be forced against the outside of the tube, which allows for better thermal transfer between the coolant and the tube surface. The coolant velocity actually decreases, and subsequently its ability to create the required turbulence, in direct relation to the increase in thickness. If the thickness of the core is doubled, the coolant velocity is halved. Modern radiators, using wide tubes and less cross section area, require less velocity to achieve optimum thermal transfer. The older radiators benefited from baffling inside the tanks and forcing the coolant through a serpentine configuration. This increased velocity and thus the required turbulence was restored.
Radiators with a higher number of fins will cool better than a comparable radiator with less fins, assuming it is clean. However, a higher fin count is very difficult to keep clean. Determining the best compromise depends on the actual conditions of operation.
Double pass radiators require 16x more pressure to flow the same volume of coolant through them, as compared to a single pass radiator. Triple pass radiators require 64x more pressure to maintain the same volume. Automotive water pumps are a centrifugal design, not positive displacement, so with a double pass radiator, the pressure is doubled and flow is reduced by approximately 33%. Modern radiator designs, using wide/thin cross sections tubes, seldom benefit from multiple pass configurations. The decrease in flow caused by multiple passes offsets any benefits of a high-flow water pump.
Gross flow radiators are superior to upright radiators because the radiator cap is positioned on the low pressure (suction) side of the system. This prevents the pressure created by a high-flow water pump from forcing coolant past the radiator cap at high RPM. As mentioned in the radiator cap section, an upright radiator should be equipped with radiator cap with the highest pressure rating recommended by the manufacturer. The system will still force coolant past the cap at sustained high RPM. 
  


Kinda hard to know what the current truth is?  Maybe 30 years ago a multi-pass was better but not with a modern radiator?
Ken
     From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
 To: GR2835 at comcast.net; detomaso at poca.com; Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com> 
 Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 1:43 PM
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
   
In reference to the Independent Antique Radiator described below, I would be a little skeptical about having only 3 rows and more concerned about coolant making only one pass through the unit. I believe the coolant should make two passes through the radiator to properly cool the liquid.

JMHO....

M  
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 6/29/15, Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
 To: GR2835 at comcast.net, detomaso at poca.com
 Date: Monday, June 29, 2015, 11:27 AM
 
    Quick reply from
 Mishimoto:
 
 
    Charles,
    Thanks for the E-mail!
    Unfortunately, at this time we do not
 offer an aluminum radiator for
    the DeTomaso Pantera. I am sorry for any
 inconvenience. However, I will
    be happy to add your information to our
 product suggestion list! If we
    do decide to come out with a product that
 matches your description, we
    will be sure to contact you!
    Please let me know if there is anything
 else I can help with!
    Mishimoto strives for the best Customer
 Service. Have I fully resolved
    any questions or concerns you were
 contacting us about today?
    Thanks,
 
    Gerry - thanks for the info... Quite
 interested, although a little
    turned off by the fact that I would need
 new tubes under the chassis. A
    few years ago I bought all new SS tubing
 (so that it would never wear
    out!!) Let us know how you like it - I'm
 thinking that Santa would be a
    perfect guy to guy shopping for me, so I'm
 not in a hurry but am
    keeping my eyes open for the best
 solution
 
 
    From: GR2835 at comcast.net
 [mailto:GR2835 at comcast.net]
    Sent: lunes, 29 de junio de 2015 17:54
    To: Charles McCall
    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
 
 
    Charles,
 
         You wanted
 lifetime.........warranty
 
       Independent Antique Radiator in
 Algonquin, Illinois , will be
    selling an all brass, 3 core, extruded
 tube (no seams), single pass
    radiator that is a direct replacement for
 a Pantera radiator. It even
    has the new dimpled fins for more heat
 dissapation........designed for
    the air conditioning condenser to be
 mounted in front and sucker fans
    recommended by Jon Haas to be mounted
 behind.
       This radiator has the heat sensor screw
 in mounted on the drivers
    side as recommended by John Haas and
 included in his radiator fan
    controller kit.
        This radiator requires new
 tubes to be made from the under chassis
    tubes.....Inlet on the passenger side and
 outlet on the drivers side.
         Current prototype is running in
 my car. The radiator should  be
    available in about 2 weeks....$650.00 .+
 shipping..I can send pictures.
            Their warranty
 is unconditional excluding damage not caused by
    manufacture.
         Independent Antique Radiator
          200 Berg St.
          Algonquin, Il.
             Image removed by
 sender. 847-458-7400
    Gerry
    VP Great Lakes Pantera Club
 
    _______________________________________________________________________
 
    From: "Charles McCall" <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
    To: "Al Chelini" <pantera at cox.net>
    Cc: "Mike Drew" <mikeldrew at aol.com>,
 detomaso at poca.com
    Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 7:29:21 AM
    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
 
 
    Inquiry sent, Al, thanks. May be in the
 market for a new radiator, as
    mine
    is marking its territory a Little more
 every day. A lifetime warranty
    would
    be fantastic!
 
 
    On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Al
 Chelini <pantera at cox.net>
 wrote:
 
 
    >    Hi, gang,
    >    FWIW, I just got thru
 with a leaky radiator project on another
    >    (extensively modified)
 make vehicle, which came with a Ron Davis
    (RD)
    >    radiator.A  That RD
 unit developed some serious leaks along the
    top &
    >    bottom ends where the
 side tanks meet the supporting rails; and I
    >    thought I'd share this
 learning experience with the group.
    >    After calling RD's
 Customer Support seeking repairs, I found that:
    >    1) they can't repair an
 aluminum radiator once it's come in
    contact
    >    with radiator coolant.
 They claim it contaminates the metal,
    making it
    >    impossible to TIG weld
 successfully.
    >    2) they will be happy to
 sell me a new unit .....A  about $1000,
    >    delivered.A  But,
 with only their standard 90 day limited
    warranty.
    >    Kinda' chintzy policy
 for such an expensive part, when the GM
    >    replacement version is
 only $150. Are these things considered a
    >    consumable, like brake
 pads?
    >    3) On a recommendation
 from a trusted source, I picked up a
    Mishimoto
    >    radiator for about 40%
 the cost of a new RD, and it has a Lifetime
    >    warranty. Everyone who
 has seen the new part claims that the
    >    workmanship is superior
 to the RD.A
    >    4) But, I checked the
 [1]mishimoto.com website, they don't offer
    one
    >    for the Pantera
 (yet).A  But, I did leave an email suggesting that
    they
    >    market one.
    >    Here's the pitch: Maybe
 if a few other list members would contact
    them
    >    expressing a desire to
 buy their Pantera version, they might be
    >    motivated to start
 producing them. They make radiators for cars
    which
    >    are much lower volume
 than the Pantera.
    >    Bonus: Mishimoto is a
 huge company, and their customer service is
    >    outstanding. The
 Lifetime warranty sold me.
    >    Final thought:
    >    The OEM Pantera radiator
 is a very good part; but, some of these
    were
    >    not built correctly.
 Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) #8, article
    61
    >    describes a correcting
 modification which can be done by a
    competent
    >    radiator shop.
    >    FWIW,
    >    Al (3915)
    >   
 ==================================================================
    >    On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at
 1:26 AM, michael barnes
    >    <[2]michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk>
 wrote:
    >
    >      I bought a
 Superior radiator,it was made upside down so
    obviously
    >      wouldn't fit
 .After sales was shocking , three months and no
    >      replacement d-!
    >      Sent by Michael
 Barnes
    >      > On 29 Jun
 2015, at 07:05, Ed Mendez <[3]edducati at mac.com>
    wrote:
    >      >
    >      > I have a
 stock radiator for sale if anyone interested. It has
    a
    >      radiator cap on
 it which weird but I suppose you can weld that
    off?
    >      >
    >      > Ed
    >      >
    >      >
    >      >> On Jun
 28, 2015, at 21:10, marshallgsmith
    >      <[4]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
 wrote:
    >      >>
    >      >>A 
 Don't discount the original radiator. It is very good and
    has
    >      cooled my
    >      >>A 
 car for many years.All that is needed is modern day high
    volume
    >      fans.
    >      >>
    >      >>A 
 Marshall
    >      >>
    >      >>A 
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
    >      >>
    >      >>A 
 -------- Original message --------
    >      >>A 
 From: Julian Kift <[5]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
    >      >>A 
 Date: 06/28/2015 8:52 PM (GMT-08:00)
    >      >>A 
 To: [6]mikeldrew at aol.com,
 [7]steve at snclocks.com,
    >      [8]detomaso at poca.com
    >      >>A 
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
    >      >>A 
 For other options in aluminum Ron Davies makes a nice
    radiator
    >      for the
    >      >>A 
 Pantera by all accounts and Superior Radiator sells their
    >      version on
    >      >>A 
 eBay with some happy customers.
    >      >>A 
 Julian
    >      >>A 
 Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:10:23 -0400
    >      >>A 
 To: [9]steve at snclocks.com;
 [10]detomaso at poca.com
    >      >>A 
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
    >      >>A 
 From: [11]detomaso at poca.com
    >      >>A 
 In a message dated 6/28/15 15 34 37, [12]steve at snclocks.com
    >      writes:
    >      >>>
 Whilst I am enjoying driving 5332, I noticed that I have a
    seep
    >      from
    >      >>>
 where one of the radiator tubes enters the header tank.A
    Looks
    >      like
    >      >>A 
 it has been
    >      >>>
 there a while, small seep, but left a puddle when I ran the
    >      engine at
    >      >>A 
 1500
    >      >>> rpm
 for 10 minutes to charge the a/c.A  It's a Fluidyne
    >      radiator,
    >      >>A 
 bought
    >      >>> and
 installed in 2011, with perhaps 4,000 miles on it.
    >      >>>
    >     
 >>>>> Bummer.A  A Many have discovered
 to their sadness that
    >      Fluidyne
    >      >>A 
 radiators
    >      >>A 
 (at least the first-generation models for the Pantera)
    cooled
    >      very well
    >      >
    >     
 _______________________________________________
    >      Detomaso Forum
 Managed by POCA
    >      Posted emails
 must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
    >      DeTomaso mailing
 list
    >      [13]DeTomaso at poca.com
    >      [14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
    >      To manage your
 subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
    >      etc.) use the
 links above.
    >
    >    On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at
 1:26 AM, michael barnes
    >    <[15]michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk>
 wrote:
    >
    >      I bought a
 Superior radiator,it was made upside down so
    obviously
    >      wouldn't fit
 .After sales was shocking , three months and no
    >      replacement d-!
    >      Sent by Michael
 Barnes
    >      > On 29 Jun
 2015, at 07:05, Ed Mendez <[16]edducati at mac.com>
    wrote:
    >      >
    >      > I have a
 stock radiator for sale if anyone interested. It has
    a
    >      radiator cap on
 it which weird but I suppose you can weld that
    off?
    >      >
    >      > Ed
    >      >
    >      >
    >      >> On Jun
 28, 2015, at 21:10, marshallgsmith
    >      <[17]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
 wrote:
    >      >>
    >      >>A 
 Don't discount the original radiator. It is very good and
    has
    >      cooled my
    >      >>A 
 car for many years.All that is needed is modern day high
    volume
    >      fans.
    >      >>
    >      >>A 
 Marshall
    >      >>
    >      >>A 
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
    >      >>
    >      >>A 
 -------- Original message --------
    >      >>A 
 From: Julian Kift <[18]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
    >      >>A 
 Date: 06/28/2015 8:52 PM (GMT-08:00)
    >      >>A 
 To: [19]mikeldrew at aol.com,
 [20]steve at snclocks.com,
    >      [21]detomaso at poca.com
    >      >>A 
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
    >      >>A 
 For other options in aluminum Ron Davies makes a nice
    radiator
    >      for the
    >      >>A 
 Pantera by all accounts and Superior Radiator sells their
    >      version on
    >      >>A 
 eBay with some happy customers.
    >      >>A 
 Julian
    >      >>A 
 Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:10:23 -0400
    >      >>A 
 To: [22]steve at snclocks.com;
 [23]detomaso at poca.com
    >      >>A 
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
    >      >>A 
 From: [24]detomaso at poca.com
    >      >>A 
 In a message dated 6/28/15 15 34 37, [25]steve at snclocks.com
    >      writes:
    >      >>>
 Whilst I am enjoying driving 5332, I noticed that I have a
    seep
    >      from
    >      >>>
 where one of the radiator tubes enters the header tank.A
    Looks
    >      like
    >      >>A 
 it has been
    >      >>>
 there a while, small seep, but left a puddle when I ran the
    >      engine at
    >      >>A 
 1500
    >      >>> rpm
 for 10 minutes to charge the a/c.A  It's a Fluidyne
    >      radiator,
    >      >>A 
 bought
    >      >>> and
 installed in 2011, with perhaps 4,000 miles on it.
    >      >>>
    >     
 >>>>> Bummer.A  A Many have discovered
 to their sadness that
    >      Fluidyne
    >      >>A 
 radiators
    >      >>A 
 (at least the first-generation models for the Pantera)
    cooled
    >      very well
    >      >
    >     
 _______________________________________________
    >      Detomaso Forum
 Managed by POCA
    >      Posted emails
 must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
    >      DeTomaso mailing
 list
    >      [26]DeTomaso at poca.com
    >      [27]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
    >      To manage your
 subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
    >      etc.) use the
 links above.
    >
    > References
    >
    >    1. http://mishimoto.com/
    >    2. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
    >    3. mailto:edducati at mac.com
    >    4. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
    >    5. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
    >    6. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
    >    7. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
    >    8. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
    >    9. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
    >   10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
    >   11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
    >   12. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
    >   13. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
    >   14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
    >   15. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
    >   16. mailto:edducati at mac.com
    >   17. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
    >   18. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
    >   19. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
    >   20. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
    >   21. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
    >   22. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
    >   23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
    >   24. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
    >   25. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
    >   26. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
    >   27. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
    >
    >
 _______________________________________________
    >
    > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
    > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
 Megabytes
    > DeTomaso mailing list
    > DeTomaso at poca.com
    > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
    >
    > To manage your subscription (change
 email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
    use
    > the links above.
    >
    >
 
 
    _______________________________________________
 
 
    Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
    Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
 Megabytes
    DeTomaso mailing list
    DeTomaso at poca.com
    http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 
 
    To manage your subscription (change email
 address, unsubscribe, etc.)
    use the links above.
 
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-------------- next part --------------
   It seems like experience and opinions on radiator are all over the
   place.  The Stewart web site
   ([1]http://stewartcomponents.com/index.php?route=information/informatio
   n&information_id=13) has a technical article that says benefits from a
   modern multi pass radiator are a myth:

Tech Tip #5 - Radiators & External Plumbing

   Radiators
   Thicker radiators do have slightly more airflow resistance than thinner
   radiators but the difference is minimal. A 4" radiator has only
   approximately 10% more airflow resistance than a 2" radiator.

   In past years, hot rodders and racers would sometimes install a thicker
   radiator and actually notice decreased cooling. They erroneously came
   to the conclusion that the air could not flow adequately through the
   thick radiator, and therefore became fully heat-saturated before
   exiting the rear of the radiator core. The actual explanation for the
   decreased cooling was not the air flow, but the coolant flow. The older
   radiators used the narrow tube design with larger cross section.
   Coolant must flow through a radiator tube at a velocity adequate to
   create turbulence.

   The turbulence allows the water in the center of the tube to be forced
   against the outside of the tube, which allows for better thermal
   transfer between the coolant and the tube surface. The coolant velocity
   actually decreases, and subsequently its ability to create the required
   turbulence, in direct relation to the increase in thickness. If the
   thickness of the core is doubled, the coolant velocity is halved.
   Modern radiators, using wide tubes and less cross section area, require
   less velocity to achieve optimum thermal transfer. The older radiators
   benefited from baffling inside the tanks and forcing the coolant
   through a serpentine configuration. This increased velocity and thus
   the required turbulence was restored.

   Radiators with a higher number of fins will cool better than a
   comparable radiator with less fins, assuming it is clean. However, a
   higher fin count is very difficult to keep clean. Determining the best
   compromise depends on the actual conditions of operation.

   Double pass radiators require 16x more pressure to flow the same volume
   of coolant through them, as compared to a single pass radiator. Triple
   pass radiators require 64x more pressure to maintain the same volume.
   Automotive water pumps are a centrifugal design, not positive
   displacement, so with a double pass radiator, the pressure is doubled
   and flow is reduced by approximately 33%. Modern radiator designs,
   using wide/thin cross sections tubes, seldom benefit from multiple pass
   configurations. The decrease in flow caused by multiple passes offsets
   any benefits of a high-flow water pump.

   Gross flow radiators are superior to upright radiators because the
   radiator cap is positioned on the low pressure (suction) side of the
   system. This prevents the pressure created by a high-flow water pump
   from forcing coolant past the radiator cap at high RPM. As mentioned in
   the radiator cap section, an upright radiator should be equipped with
   radiator cap with the highest pressure rating recommended by the
   manufacturer. The system will still force coolant past the cap at
   sustained high RPM.


   Kinda hard to know what the current truth is?  Maybe 30 years ago a
   multi-pass was better but not with a modern radiator?

   Ken
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   To: GR2835 at comcast.net; detomaso at poca.com; Charles McCall
   <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 1:43 PM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
   In reference to the Independent Antique Radiator described below, I
   would be a little skeptical about having only 3 rows and more concerned
   about coolant making only one pass through the unit. I believe the
   coolant should make two passes through the radiator to properly cool
   the liquid.
   JMHO....
   M
   --------------------------------------------
   On Mon, 6/29/15, Charles McCall <[2]charlesmccall at gmail.com> wrote:
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
   To: [3]GR2835 at comcast.net, [4]detomaso at poca.com
   Date: Monday, June 29, 2015, 11:27 AM
      Quick reply from
   Mishimoto:
      Charles,
      Thanks for the E-mail!
      Unfortunately, at this time we do not
   offer an aluminum radiator for
      the DeTomaso Pantera. I am sorry for any
   inconvenience. However, I will
      be happy to add your information to our
   product suggestion list! If we
      do decide to come out with a product that
   matches your description, we
      will be sure to contact you!
      Please let me know if there is anything
   else I can help with!
      Mishimoto strives for the best Customer
   Service. Have I fully resolved
      any questions or concerns you were
   contacting us about today?
      Thanks,
      Gerry - thanks for the info... Quite
   interested, although a little
      turned off by the fact that I would need
   new tubes under the chassis. A
      few years ago I bought all new SS tubing
   (so that it would never wear
      out!!) Let us know how you like it - I'm
   thinking that Santa would be a
      perfect guy to guy shopping for me, so I'm
   not in a hurry but am
      keeping my eyes open for the best
   solution
      From: [5]GR2835 at comcast.net
   [mailto:[6]GR2835 at comcast.net]
      Sent: lunes, 29 de junio de 2015 17:54
      To: Charles McCall
      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
      Charles,
           You wanted
   lifetime.........warranty
         Independent Antique Radiator in
   Algonquin, Illinois , will be
      selling an all brass, 3 core, extruded
   tube (no seams), single pass
      radiator that is a direct replacement for
   a Pantera radiator. It even
      has the new dimpled fins for more heat
   dissapation........designed for
      the air conditioning condenser to be
   mounted in front and sucker fans
      recommended by Jon Haas to be mounted
   behind.
         This radiator has the heat sensor screw
   in mounted on the drivers
      side as recommended by John Haas and
   included in his radiator fan
      controller kit.
          This radiator requires new
   tubes to be made from the under chassis
      tubes.....Inlet on the passenger side and
   outlet on the drivers side.
           Current prototype is running in
   my car. The radiator should  be
      available in about 2 weeks....$650.00 .+
   shipping..I can send pictures.
              Their warranty
   is unconditional excluding damage not caused by
      manufacture.
           Independent Antique Radiator
            200 Berg St.
            Algonquin, Il.
               Image removed by
   sender. 847-458-7400
      Gerry
      VP Great Lakes Pantera Club
      ____________________________________________________________________
   ___
      From: "Charles McCall" <[7]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
      To: "Al Chelini" <[8]pantera at cox.net>
      Cc: "Mike Drew" <[9]mikeldrew at aol.com>,
   [10]detomaso at poca.com
      Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 7:29:21 AM
      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
      Inquiry sent, Al, thanks. May be in the
   market for a new radiator, as
      mine
      is marking its territory a Little more
   every day. A lifetime warranty
      would
      be fantastic!
      On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Al
   Chelini <[11]pantera at cox.net>
   wrote:
      >    Hi, gang,
      >    FWIW, I just got thru
   with a leaky radiator project on another
      >    (extensively modified)
   make vehicle, which came with a Ron Davis
      (RD)
      >    radiator.A  That RD
   unit developed some serious leaks along the
      top &
      >    bottom ends where the
   side tanks meet the supporting rails; and I
      >    thought I'd share this
   learning experience with the group.
      >    After calling RD's
   Customer Support seeking repairs, I found that:
      >    1) they can't repair an
   aluminum radiator once it's come in
      contact
      >    with radiator coolant.
   They claim it contaminates the metal,
      making it
      >    impossible to TIG weld
   successfully.
      >    2) they will be happy to
   sell me a new unit .....A  about $1000,
      >    delivered.A  But,
   with only their standard 90 day limited
      warranty.
      >    Kinda' chintzy policy
   for such an expensive part, when the GM
      >    replacement version is
   only $150. Are these things considered a
      >    consumable, like brake
   pads?
      >    3) On a recommendation
   from a trusted source, I picked up a
      Mishimoto
      >    radiator for about 40%
   the cost of a new RD, and it has a Lifetime
      >    warranty. Everyone who
   has seen the new part claims that the
      >    workmanship is superior
   to the RD.A
      >    4) But, I checked the
   [1]mishimoto.com website, they don't offer
      one
      >    for the Pantera
   (yet).A  But, I did leave an email suggesting that
      they
      >    market one.
      >    Here's the pitch: Maybe
   if a few other list members would contact
      them
      >    expressing a desire to
   buy their Pantera version, they might be
      >    motivated to start
   producing them. They make radiators for cars
      which
      >    are much lower volume
   than the Pantera.
      >    Bonus: Mishimoto is a
   huge company, and their customer service is
      >    outstanding. The
   Lifetime warranty sold me.
      >    Final thought:
      >    The OEM Pantera radiator
   is a very good part; but, some of these
      were
      >    not built correctly.
   Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) #8, article
      61
      >    describes a correcting
   modification which can be done by a
      competent
      >    radiator shop.
      >    FWIW,
      >    Al (3915)
      >
   ==================================================================
      >    On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at
   1:26 AM, michael barnes
      >    <[2][12]michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk>
   wrote:
      >
      >      I bought a
   Superior radiator,it was made upside down so
      obviously
      >      wouldn't fit
   .After sales was shocking , three months and no
      >      replacement d-!
      >      Sent by Michael
   Barnes
      >      > On 29 Jun
   2015, at 07:05, Ed Mendez <[3][13]edducati at mac.com>
      wrote:
      >      >
      >      > I have a
   stock radiator for sale if anyone interested. It has
      a
      >      radiator cap on
   it which weird but I suppose you can weld that
      off?
      >      >
      >      > Ed
      >      >
      >      >
      >      >> On Jun
   28, 2015, at 21:10, marshallgsmith
      >      <[4][14]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   wrote:
      >      >>
      >      >>A
   Don't discount the original radiator. It is very good and
      has
      >      cooled my
      >      >>A
   car for many years.All that is needed is modern day high
      volume
      >      fans.
      >      >>
      >      >>A
   Marshall
      >      >>
      >      >>A
   Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
      >      >>
      >      >>A
   -------- Original message --------
      >      >>A
   From: Julian Kift <[5][15]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
      >      >>A
   Date: 06/28/2015 8:52 PM (GMT-08:00)
      >      >>A
   To: [6][16]mikeldrew at aol.com,
   [7][17]steve at snclocks.com,
      >      [8][18]detomaso at poca.com
      >      >>A
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
      >      >>A
   For other options in aluminum Ron Davies makes a nice
      radiator
      >      for the
      >      >>A
   Pantera by all accounts and Superior Radiator sells their
      >      version on
      >      >>A
   eBay with some happy customers.
      >      >>A
   Julian
      >      >>A
   Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:10:23 -0400
      >      >>A
   To: [9][19]steve at snclocks.com;
   [10][20]detomaso at poca.com
      >      >>A
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
      >      >>A
   From: [11][21]detomaso at poca.com
      >      >>A
   In a message dated 6/28/15 15 34 37, [12][22]steve at snclocks.com
      >      writes:
      >      >>>
   Whilst I am enjoying driving 5332, I noticed that I have a
      seep
      >      from
      >      >>>
   where one of the radiator tubes enters the header tank.A
      Looks
      >      like
      >      >>A
   it has been
      >      >>>
   there a while, small seep, but left a puddle when I ran the
      >      engine at
      >      >>A
   1500
      >      >>> rpm
   for 10 minutes to charge the a/c.A  It's a Fluidyne
      >      radiator,
      >      >>A
   bought
      >      >>> and
   installed in 2011, with perhaps 4,000 miles on it.
      >      >>>
      >
   >>>>> Bummer.A  A Many have discovered
   to their sadness that
      >      Fluidyne
      >      >>A
   radiators
      >      >>A
   (at least the first-generation models for the Pantera)
      cooled
      >      very well
      >      >
      >
   _______________________________________________
      >      Detomaso Forum
   Managed by POCA
      >      Posted emails
   must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
      >      DeTomaso mailing
   list
      >      [13][23]DeTomaso at poca.com
      >      [14][24]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
      >      To manage your
   subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
      >      etc.) use the
   links above.
      >
      >    On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at
   1:26 AM, michael barnes
      >    <[15][25]michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk>
   wrote:
      >
      >      I bought a
   Superior radiator,it was made upside down so
      obviously
      >      wouldn't fit
   .After sales was shocking , three months and no
      >      replacement d-!
      >      Sent by Michael
   Barnes
      >      > On 29 Jun
   2015, at 07:05, Ed Mendez <[16][26]edducati at mac.com>
      wrote:
      >      >
      >      > I have a
   stock radiator for sale if anyone interested. It has
      a
      >      radiator cap on
   it which weird but I suppose you can weld that
      off?
      >      >
      >      > Ed
      >      >
      >      >
      >      >> On Jun
   28, 2015, at 21:10, marshallgsmith
      >      <[17][27]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   wrote:
      >      >>
      >      >>A
   Don't discount the original radiator. It is very good and
      has
      >      cooled my
      >      >>A
   car for many years.All that is needed is modern day high
      volume
      >      fans.
      >      >>
      >      >>A
   Marshall
      >      >>
      >      >>A
   Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
      >      >>
      >      >>A
   -------- Original message --------
      >      >>A
   From: Julian Kift <[18][28]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
      >      >>A
   Date: 06/28/2015 8:52 PM (GMT-08:00)
      >      >>A
   To: [19][29]mikeldrew at aol.com,
   [20][30]steve at snclocks.com,
      >      [21][31]detomaso at poca.com
      >      >>A
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
      >      >>A
   For other options in aluminum Ron Davies makes a nice
      radiator
      >      for the
      >      >>A
   Pantera by all accounts and Superior Radiator sells their
      >      version on
      >      >>A
   eBay with some happy customers.
      >      >>A
   Julian
      >      >>A
   Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:10:23 -0400
      >      >>A
   To: [22][32]steve at snclocks.com;
   [23][33]detomaso at poca.com
      >      >>A
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiators
      >      >>A
   From: [24][34]detomaso at poca.com
      >      >>A
   In a message dated 6/28/15 15 34 37, [25][35]steve at snclocks.com
      >      writes:
      >      >>>
   Whilst I am enjoying driving 5332, I noticed that I have a
      seep
      >      from
      >      >>>
   where one of the radiator tubes enters the header tank.A
      Looks
      >      like
      >      >>A
   it has been
      >      >>>
   there a while, small seep, but left a puddle when I ran the
      >      engine at
      >      >>A
   1500
      >      >>> rpm
   for 10 minutes to charge the a/c.A  It's a Fluidyne
      >      radiator,
      >      >>A
   bought
      >      >>> and
   installed in 2011, with perhaps 4,000 miles on it.
      >      >>>
      >
   >>>>> Bummer.A  A Many have discovered
   to their sadness that
      >      Fluidyne
      >      >>A
   radiators
      >      >>A
   (at least the first-generation models for the Pantera)
      cooled
      >      very well
      >      >
      >
   _______________________________________________
      >      Detomaso Forum
   Managed by POCA
      >      Posted emails
   must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
      >      DeTomaso mailing
   list
      >      [26][36]DeTomaso at poca.com
      >      [27][37]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
      >      To manage your
   subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
      >      etc.) use the
   links above.
      >
      > References
      >
      >    1. [38]http://mishimoto.com/
      >    2. mailto:[39]michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
      >    3. mailto:[40]edducati at mac.com
      >    4. mailto:[41]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
      >    5. mailto:[42]julian_kift at hotmail.com
      >    6. mailto:[43]mikeldrew at aol.com
      >    7. mailto:[44]steve at snclocks.com
      >    8. mailto:[45]detomaso at poca.com
      >    9. mailto:[46]steve at snclocks.com
      >   10. mailto:[47]detomaso at poca.com
      >   11. mailto:[48]detomaso at poca.com
      >   12. mailto:[49]steve at snclocks.com
      >   13. mailto:[50]DeTomaso at poca.com
      >   14. [51]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
      >   15. mailto:[52]michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
      >   16. mailto:[53]edducati at mac.com
      >   17. mailto:[54]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
      >   18. mailto:[55]julian_kift at hotmail.com
      >   19. mailto:[56]mikeldrew at aol.com
      >   20. mailto:[57]steve at snclocks.com
      >   21. mailto:[58]detomaso at poca.com
      >   22. mailto:[59]steve at snclocks.com
      >   23. mailto:[60]detomaso at poca.com
      >   24. mailto:[61]detomaso at poca.com
      >   25. mailto:[62]steve at snclocks.com
      >   26. mailto:[63]DeTomaso at poca.com
      >   27. [64]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
      >
      >
   _______________________________________________
      >
      > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
      > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
      > DeTomaso mailing list
      > [65]DeTomaso at poca.com
      > [66]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
      >
      > To manage your subscription (change
   email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
      use
      > the links above.
      >
      >
      _______________________________________________
      Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
      DeTomaso mailing list
      [67]DeTomaso at poca.com
      [68]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
      To manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe, etc.)
      use the links above.
   -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [69]DeTomaso at poca.com
   [70]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   To manage your subscription (change email address,
   unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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   [71]DeTomaso at poca.com
   [72]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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References

   1. http://stewartcomponents.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=13
   2. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
   3. mailto:GR2835 at comcast.net
   4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   5. mailto:GR2835 at comcast.net
   6. mailto:GR2835 at comcast.net
   7. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
   8. mailto:pantera at cox.net
   9. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
  10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  11. mailto:pantera at cox.net
  12. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
  13. mailto:edducati at mac.com
  14. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
  15. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  16. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
  17. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  18. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  19. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  20. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  21. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  22. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  25. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
  26. mailto:edducati at mac.com
  27. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
  28. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  29. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
  30. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  31. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  32. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  33. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  34. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  35. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  36. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  37. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  38. http://mishimoto.com/
  39. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
  40. mailto:edducati at mac.com
  41. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
  42. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  43. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
  44. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  45. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  46. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  47. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  48. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  49. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  50. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  51. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  52. mailto:michaelbarnessrt10 at hotmail.co.uk
  53. mailto:edducati at mac.com
  54. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
  55. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  56. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
  57. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  58. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  59. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  60. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  61. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  62. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  63. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  64. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  65. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  66. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  67. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  68. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  69. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  70. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  71. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  72. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com


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