[DeTomaso] FW: NPC Probably not new to you aeroheads but wow-
Bill Lewis
lotus0005 at hotmail.com
Wed Jun 17 16:03:37 EDT 2015
So, here's my question - when small planes fly over, they make a heckuva noise. Is that from having no mufflers - if so, must be really loud inside the plane; or is that from wind noise?----------Bill (I'm gonna learn something new at 74) Lewis
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:07:14 -0500
From: kirby.schrader at gmail.com
To: gow2 at rc-tech.net
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: NPC Probably not new to you aeroheads but wow-
CC: detomaso at poca.com
Ah, yes.... the Starship.... One of the coolest looking planes, IMHO.
One of them was a chase plane for Spaceship One. See the link below.
Burt Rutan had a hand in designing both of them!
Bob Scherer is a real fan of the Starship. So much so, he has his own and
he bought all the spare parts he could lay his hands on and intends to keep
the plane flying as long as possible. But lots of them have been destroyed.
One flies over my house on the weekends and it is obvious when it is coming.
The noise of the exhaust through the pusher props is very distinctive.
I think it's the one based in Oklahoma City...
http://www.bobscherer.com/
FWIW,
Kirby
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 1:33 PM, <gow2 at rc-tech.net> wrote:
> Much of the composite aircraft technology (and other advanced technology)
> came directly from the experimental kit plane builders. Since it was
> experimental, they were allowed to forgo the near impossible process of
> certification by the FAA.
>
> Bill Lear created the "Lear Fan" with much being composite. It was
> obsolete before testing was complete by the general nature of technology
> growth.
>
> Many of the same engineers then helped Beechcraft develop the Starship
> with much composite construction. Again the technology was a not quite
> where it needed to be. Beechcraft built 53 and eventually bought almost
> all of them so would not have to support only 50 or so aircraft.
>
> These engineers often go from company to company and project to project.
> All of this laid the path for commercial aircraft to certify composite
> aircraft.
>
> Raytheon developed the Premier with a composite fuselage. They dropped a
> couple stories off a building in test and it bounced. The strength of this
> had a lot to do with how Jack Roush and his wife walked away after he
> crashed his at Oshkosh:
>
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Jack+Roush++crash&biw=1600&bih=736&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=bbqBVbGPOsXjoAS5yanACw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg
>
>
> The premier had high hopes and they did sell a lot more then the Starship
> but due to changes after development and certification the additional
> weight compromised fuel and range and has not been that great of a jet.
>
> But this was all the launching pad for much composite development in the
> civilian market.
>
> Ironically one of the problem with composites is repair. When you run
> something like carbon fiber in a solid line from wing tip to wing tip, if
> you punch it with an ice pick you have compromised the strength of the
> entire string.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> > Speaking about things that I have absolutely no first-hand experience
> > with, during a project a few years ago in Airbus I was talking about this
> > with some Industrial Engineers. They commented that carbon fiber allows a
> > somewhat significantly different design. If I remember correctly, the
> > Boeing 787 was the first Boeing aircraft designed from the ground-up
> > optimized to be constructed in carbon fiber. Previous aircraft were
> > "aluminium" designs with parts made in CF to save weight, which is not at
> > all the same thing.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green
> > via DeTomaso
> > Sent: miércoles, 17 de junio de 2015 18:45
> > To: Mark Charlton; Jerry Knotts
> > Cc: De Tomaso List
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Probably not new to you aeroheads but wow-
> >
> > The length and shape of the wings seems very different? Did carbon fiber
> > allow a better design? The wings also slope up a lot, I recall a video a
> > few years also showing the wings being radically bent up during tests:
> >
> https://www.google.com/search?q=boeing+787+wing+test&biw=1379&bih=854&tbm=isch&imgil=g60e_Sf9YwzYoM%253A%253BCBl8Rdmr5VpJrM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.wired.com%25252F2010%25252F03%25252Fboeing-787-passes-incredible-wing-flex-test%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=g60e_Sf9YwzYoM%253A%252CCBl8Rdmr5VpJrM%252C_&dpr=1&usg=__gHkzMST4M21Q93r-R9qvKGrgmH8%3D&ved=0CCcQyjc&ei=r6KBVYbFKMSZsAWz5oCoBw#tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACU6c2l9Brb_1wIjj4MMUgWfWxoMSS-Y3rcv-7XBAKKLoHfT6QvSRjCDb_1CqpwPrZJHrmEsf0Iumyyr3TUAcMND-xuVSoSCfgwxSBZ9bGgERQdjldZDxQnKhIJxJL5jety_17sRz09XQt-HPKkqEglcEAoougd9PhGD_13_16qFoZ6CoSCZC9JGMINv8KEU1QZr0sKnbsKhIJqnA-tkkeuYQRuCw9F67hGkUqEgmx_1Qi6bLKvdBFNUGa9LCp27CoSCdQBww0P7G5VEWsvuzOyRLzl&q=boeing%20787%20wing%20test
> >
> http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2008/05/a_closer_look_at_787_wingflex/
> > From: Mark Charlton <pantera01826 at rogers.com>
> > To: Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com>
> > Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 8:28 AM
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Probably not new to you aeroheads but wow-
> >
> > I saw a shorter clip of the ascent, but that link is much more
> impressive.
> > That is a beautiful piece of video, and an even more beautiful piece of
> > flying. The pilots make that look effortless, but I doubt it was! Very
> > impressive.
> >
> > Mark Charlton
> > pantera01826 at rogers.com
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 16, 2015, at 10:47 PM, Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com> wrote:
> >
> >> This apparently is not a first time video of this new plane and its take
> >> off ability. I am sure it is about as light as it can get but
> >> still!!!!!!!!!!
> >>
> >>
> http://www.refinery29.com/2015/06/89134/boeing-787-dreamliner-takeoff-video
> >>
> >> I was wowed by a C141 Star Lifter in 1966.
> >>
> >> Jerry Knotts
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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> >>
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> >> use the links above.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > the links above.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
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-------------- next part --------------
So, here's my question - when small planes fly over, they make a
heckuva noise. Is that from having no mufflers - if so, must be really
loud inside the plane; or is that from wind noise?
----------Bill (I'm gonna learn something new at 74) Lewis
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:07:14 -0500
From: kirby.schrader at gmail.com
To: gow2 at rc-tech.net
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: NPC Probably not new to you aeroheads but
wow-
CC: detomaso at poca.com
Ah, yes.... the Starship.... One of the coolest looking planes, IMHO.
One of them was a chase plane for Spaceship One. See the link below.
Burt Rutan had a hand in designing both of them!
Bob Scherer is a real fan of the Starship. So much so, he has his own and
he bought all the spare parts he could lay his hands on and intends to keep
the plane flying as long as possible. But lots of them have been destroyed.
One flies over my house on the weekends and it is obvious when it is coming.
The noise of the exhaust through the pusher props is very distinctive.
I think it's the one based in Oklahoma City...
[1]http://www.bobscherer.com/
FWIW,
Kirby
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 1:33 PM, <gow2 at rc-tech.net> wrote:
> Much of the composite aircraft technology (and other advanced technology)
> came directly from the experimental kit plane builders. Since it was
> experimental, they were allowed to forgo the near impossible process of
> certification by the FAA.
>
> Bill Lear created the "Lear Fan" with much being composite. It was
> obsolete before testing was complete by the general nature of technology
> growth.
>
> Many of the same engineers then helped Beechcraft develop the Starship
> with much composite construction. Again the technology was a not quite
> where it needed to be. Beechcraft built 53 and eventually bought almost
> all of them so would not have to support only 50 or so aircraft.
>
> These engineers often go from company to company and project to project.
> All of this laid the path for commercial aircraft to certify composite
> aircraft.
>
> Raytheon developed the Premier with a composite fuselage. They dropped a
> couple stories off a building in test and it bounced. The strength of this
> had a lot to do with how Jack Roush and his wife walked away after he
> crashed his at Oshkosh:
>
>
> [2]https://www.google.com/search?q=Jack+Roush++crash&biw=1600&bih=736&source=l
nms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=bbqBVbGPOsXjoAS5yanACw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg
>
>
> The premier had high hopes and they did sell a lot more then the Starship
> but due to changes after development and certification the additional
> weight compromised fuel and range and has not been that great of a jet.
>
> But this was all the launching pad for much composite development in the
> civilian market.
>
> Ironically one of the problem with composites is repair. When you run
> something like carbon fiber in a solid line from wing tip to wing tip, if
> you punch it with an ice pick you have compromised the strength of the
> entire string.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> > Speaking about things that I have absolutely no first-hand experience
> > with, during a project a few years ago in Airbus I was talking about this
> > with some Industrial Engineers. They commented that carbon fiber allows a
> > somewhat significantly different design. If I remember correctly, the
> > Boeing 787 was the first Boeing aircraft designed from the ground-up
> > optimized to be constructed in carbon fiber. Previous aircraft were
> > "aluminium" designs with parts made in CF to save weight, which is not at
> > all the same thing.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green
> > via DeTomaso
> > Sent: miercoles, 17 de junio de 2015 18:45
> > To: Mark Charlton; Jerry Knotts
> > Cc: De Tomaso List
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Probably not new to you aeroheads but wow-
> >
> > The length and shape of the wings seems very different? Did carbon fiber
> > allow a better design? The wings also slope up a lot, I recall a video a
> > few years also showing the wings being radically bent up during tests:
> >
> [3]https://www.google.com/search?q=boeing+787+wing+test&biw=1379&bih=854&tbm=i
sch&imgil=g60e_Sf9YwzYoM%253A%253BCBl8Rdmr5VpJrM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fww
w.wired.com%25252F2010%25252F03%25252Fboeing-787-passes-incredible-wing-flex-tes
t%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=g60e_Sf9YwzYoM%253A%252CCBl8Rdmr5VpJrM%252C_&dpr=1&u
sg=__gHkzMST4M21Q93r-R9qvKGrgmH8%3D&ved=0CCcQyjc&ei=r6KBVYbFKMSZsAWz5oCoBw#tbm=i
sch&tbs=rimg%3ACU6c2l9Brb_1wIjj4MMUgWfWxoMSS-Y3rcv-7XBAKKLoHfT6QvSRjCDb_1CqpwPrZ
JHrmEsf0Iumyyr3TUAcMND-xuVSoSCfgwxSBZ9bGgERQdjldZDxQnKhIJxJL5jety_17sRz09XQt-HPK
kqEglcEAoougd9PhGD_13_16qFoZ6CoSCZC9JGMINv8KEU1QZr0sKnbsKhIJqnA-tkkeuYQRuCw9F67h
GkUqEgmx_1Qi6bLKvdBFNUGa9LCp27CoSCdQBww0P7G5VEWsvuzOyRLzl&q=boeing%20787%20wing%
20test
> >
> [4]http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2008/05/a_closer_look_at_78
7_wingflex/
> > From: Mark Charlton <pantera01826 at rogers.com>
> > To: Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com>
> > Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 8:28 AM
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Probably not new to you aeroheads but wow-
> >
> > I saw a shorter clip of the ascent, but that link is much more
> impressive.
> > That is a beautiful piece of video, and an even more beautiful piece of
> > flying. The pilots make that look effortless, but I doubt it was! Very
> > impressive.
> >
> > Mark Charlton
> > pantera01826 at rogers.com
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 16, 2015, at 10:47 PM, Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com> wrote:
> >
> >> This apparently is not a first time video of this new plane and its take
> >> off ability. I am sure it is about as light as it can get but
> >> still!!!!!!!!!!
> >>
> >>
> [5]http://www.refinery29.com/2015/06/89134/boeing-787-dreamliner-takeoff-video
> >>
> >> I was wowed by a C141 Star Lifter in 1966.
> >>
> >> Jerry Knotts
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> [6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>
> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> >> use the links above.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> > the links above.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> > the links above.
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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> DeTomaso at poca.com
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>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
>
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References
1. http://www.bobscherer.com/
2. https://www.google.com/search?q=Jack+Roush++crash&biw=1600&bih=736&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=bbqBVbGPOsXjoAS5yanACw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg
3. https://www.google.com/search?q=boeing+787+wing+test&biw=1379&bih=854&tbm=isch&imgil=g60e_Sf9YwzYoM%253A%253BCBl8Rdmr5VpJrM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.wired.com%25252F2010%25252F03%25252Fboeing-787-passes-incredible-wing-flex-test%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=g60e_Sf9YwzYoM%253A%252CCBl8Rdmr5VpJrM%252C_&dpr=1&usg=__gHkzMST4M21Q93r-R9qvKGrgmH8%3D&ved=0CCcQyjc&ei=r6KBVYbFKMSZsAWz5oCoBw#tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACU6c2l9Brb_1wIjj4MMUgWfWxoMSS-Y3rcv-7XBAKKLoHfT6QvSRjCDb_1CqpwPrZJHrmEsf0Iumyyr3TUAcMND-xuVSoSCfgwxSBZ9bGgERQdjldZDxQnKhIJxJL5jety_17sRz09XQt-HPKkqEglcEAoougd9PhGD_13_16qFoZ6CoSCZC9JGMINv8KEU1QZr0sKnbsKhIJqnA-tkkeuYQRuCw9F67hGkUqEgmx_1Qi6bLKvdBFNUGa9LCp27CoSCdQBww0P7G5VEWsvuzOyRLzl&q=boeing%20787%20wing%20test
4. http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2008/05/a_closer_look_at_787_wingflex/
5. http://www.refinery29.com/2015/06/89134/boeing-787-dreamliner-takeoff-video
6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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