[DeTomaso] FW: NPC Probably not new to you aeroheads but wow-

Wed Jun 17 15:17:34 EDT 2015

Burt Rutan's composite long wing designs went all the way back into the
early 70's.

> Ah, yes.... the Starship.... One of the coolest looking planes, IMHO.
>
> One of them was a chase plane for Spaceship One. See the link below.
> Burt Rutan had a hand in designing both of them!
>
> Bob Scherer is a real fan of the Starship. So much so, he has his own and
> he bought all the spare parts he could lay his hands on and intends to
> keep
> the plane flying as long as possible. But lots of them have been
> destroyed.
> One flies over my house on the weekends and it is obvious when it is
> coming.
>
> The noise of the exhaust through the pusher props is very distinctive.
> I think it's the one based in Oklahoma City...
>
> http://www.bobscherer.com/
>
> FWIW,
> Kirby
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 1:33 PM, <gow2 at rc-tech.net> wrote:
>
>> Much of the composite aircraft technology (and other advanced
>> technology)
>> came directly from the experimental kit plane builders. Since it was
>> experimental, they were allowed to forgo the near impossible  process of
>> certification by the FAA.
>>
>> Bill Lear created the "Lear Fan" with much being composite. It was
>> obsolete before testing was complete by the general nature of technology
>> growth.
>>
>> Many of the same engineers then helped Beechcraft develop the Starship
>> with much composite construction. Again the technology was a not quite
>> where it needed to be. Beechcraft built 53 and eventually bought almost
>> all of them so would not have to support only 50 or so aircraft.
>>
>> These engineers often go from company to company and project to project.
>> All of this laid the path for commercial aircraft to certify composite
>> aircraft.
>>
>> Raytheon developed the Premier with a composite fuselage. They dropped a
>> couple stories off a building in test and it bounced. The strength of
>> this
>> had a lot to do with how Jack Roush and his wife walked away after he
>> crashed his at Oshkosh:
>>
>>
>> https://www.google.com/search?q=Jack+Roush++crash&biw=1600&bih=736&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=bbqBVbGPOsXjoAS5yanACw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg
>>
>>
>> The premier had high hopes and they did sell a lot more then the
>> Starship
>> but due to changes after development and certification the additional
>> weight compromised fuel and range and has not been that great of a jet.
>>
>> But this was all the launching pad for much composite development in the
>> civilian market.
>>
>> Ironically one of the problem with composites is repair. When you run
>> something like carbon fiber in a solid line from wing tip to wing tip,
>> if
>> you punch it with an ice pick you have compromised the strength of the
>> entire string.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> > Speaking about things that I have absolutely no first-hand experience
>> > with, during a project a few years ago in Airbus I was talking about
>> this
>> > with some Industrial Engineers. They commented that carbon fiber
>> allows a
>> > somewhat significantly different design. If I remember correctly, the
>> > Boeing 787 was the first Boeing aircraft designed from the ground-up
>> > optimized to be constructed in carbon fiber. Previous aircraft were
>> > "aluminium" designs with parts made in CF to save weight, which is not
>> at
>> > all the same thing.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Ken
>> Green
>> > via DeTomaso
>> > Sent: miércoles, 17 de junio de 2015 18:45
>> > To: Mark Charlton; Jerry Knotts
>> > Cc: De Tomaso List
>> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Probably not new to you aeroheads but wow-
>> >
>> > The length and shape of the wings seems very different?  Did carbon
>> fiber
>> > allow a better design?  The wings also slope up a lot, I recall a
>> video a
>> > few years also showing the wings being radically bent up during tests:
>> >
>> https://www.google.com/search?q=boeing+787+wing+test&biw=1379&bih=854&tbm=isch&imgil=g60e_Sf9YwzYoM%253A%253BCBl8Rdmr5VpJrM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.wired.com%25252F2010%25252F03%25252Fboeing-787-passes-incredible-wing-flex-test%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=g60e_Sf9YwzYoM%253A%252CCBl8Rdmr5VpJrM%252C_&dpr=1&usg=__gHkzMST4M21Q93r-R9qvKGrgmH8%3D&ved=0CCcQyjc&ei=r6KBVYbFKMSZsAWz5oCoBw#tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACU6c2l9Brb_1wIjj4MMUgWfWxoMSS-Y3rcv-7XBAKKLoHfT6QvSRjCDb_1CqpwPrZJHrmEsf0Iumyyr3TUAcMND-xuVSoSCfgwxSBZ9bGgERQdjldZDxQnKhIJxJL5jety_17sRz09XQt-HPKkqEglcEAoougd9PhGD_13_16qFoZ6CoSCZC9JGMINv8KEU1QZr0sKnbsKhIJqnA-tkkeuYQRuCw9F67hGkUqEgmx_1Qi6bLKvdBFNUGa9LCp27CoSCdQBww0P7G5VEWsvuzOyRLzl&q=boeing%20787%20wing%20test
>> >
>> http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2008/05/a_closer_look_at_787_wingflex/
>> >        From: Mark Charlton <pantera01826 at rogers.com>
>> >  To: Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com>
>> > Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
>> >  Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 8:28 AM
>> >  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Probably not new to you aeroheads but
>> wow-
>> >
>> > I saw a shorter clip of the ascent, but that link is much more
>> impressive.
>> > That is a beautiful piece of video, and an even more beautiful piece
>> of
>> > flying. The pilots make that look effortless, but I doubt it was! Very
>> > impressive.
>> >
>> > Mark Charlton
>> > pantera01826 at rogers.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jun 16, 2015, at 10:47 PM, Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> This apparently is not a first time video of this new plane and its
>> take
>> >> off ability.  I am sure it is about as light as it can get but
>> >> still!!!!!!!!!!
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://www.refinery29.com/2015/06/89134/boeing-787-dreamliner-takeoff-video
>> >>
>> >> I was wowed by a C141 Star Lifter in 1966.
>> >>
>> >> Jerry Knotts
>> >>
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