[DeTomaso] FW: NPC Probably not new to you aeroheads but wow-

Wed Jun 17 14:33:32 EDT 2015

Much of the composite aircraft technology (and other advanced technology)
came directly from the experimental kit plane builders. Since it was
experimental, they were allowed to forgo the near impossible  process of
certification by the FAA.

Bill Lear created the "Lear Fan" with much being composite. It was
obsolete before testing was complete by the general nature of technology
growth.

Many of the same engineers then helped Beechcraft develop the Starship
with much composite construction. Again the technology was a not quite
where it needed to be. Beechcraft built 53 and eventually bought almost
all of them so would not have to support only 50 or so aircraft.

These engineers often go from company to company and project to project.
All of this laid the path for commercial aircraft to certify composite
aircraft.

Raytheon developed the Premier with a composite fuselage. They dropped a
couple stories off a building in test and it bounced. The strength of this
had a lot to do with how Jack Roush and his wife walked away after he
crashed his at Oshkosh:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Jack+Roush++crash&biw=1600&bih=736&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=bbqBVbGPOsXjoAS5yanACw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg

The premier had high hopes and they did sell a lot more then the Starship
but due to changes after development and certification the additional
weight compromised fuel and range and has not been that great of a jet.

But this was all the launching pad for much composite development in the
civilian market.

Ironically one of the problem with composites is repair. When you run
something like carbon fiber in a solid line from wing tip to wing tip, if
you punch it with an ice pick you have compromised the strength of the
entire string.

Gary

> Speaking about things that I have absolutely no first-hand experience
> with, during a project a few years ago in Airbus I was talking about this
> with some Industrial Engineers. They commented that carbon fiber allows a
> somewhat significantly different design. If I remember correctly, the
> Boeing 787 was the first Boeing aircraft designed from the ground-up
> optimized to be constructed in carbon fiber. Previous aircraft were
> "aluminium" designs with parts made in CF to save weight, which is not at
> all the same thing.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green
> via DeTomaso
> Sent: miércoles, 17 de junio de 2015 18:45
> To: Mark Charlton; Jerry Knotts
> Cc: De Tomaso List
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Probably not new to you aeroheads but wow-
>
> The length and shape of the wings seems very different?  Did carbon fiber
> allow a better design?  The wings also slope up a lot, I recall a video a
> few years also showing the wings being radically bent up during tests:
> https://www.google.com/search?q=boeing+787+wing+test&biw=1379&bih=854&tbm=isch&imgil=g60e_Sf9YwzYoM%253A%253BCBl8Rdmr5VpJrM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.wired.com%25252F2010%25252F03%25252Fboeing-787-passes-incredible-wing-flex-test%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=g60e_Sf9YwzYoM%253A%252CCBl8Rdmr5VpJrM%252C_&dpr=1&usg=__gHkzMST4M21Q93r-R9qvKGrgmH8%3D&ved=0CCcQyjc&ei=r6KBVYbFKMSZsAWz5oCoBw#tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACU6c2l9Brb_1wIjj4MMUgWfWxoMSS-Y3rcv-7XBAKKLoHfT6QvSRjCDb_1CqpwPrZJHrmEsf0Iumyyr3TUAcMND-xuVSoSCfgwxSBZ9bGgERQdjldZDxQnKhIJxJL5jety_17sRz09XQt-HPKkqEglcEAoougd9PhGD_13_16qFoZ6CoSCZC9JGMINv8KEU1QZr0sKnbsKhIJqnA-tkkeuYQRuCw9F67hGkUqEgmx_1Qi6bLKvdBFNUGa9LCp27CoSCdQBww0P7G5VEWsvuzOyRLzl&q=boeing%20787%20wing%20test
> http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2008/05/a_closer_look_at_787_wingflex/
>        From: Mark Charlton <pantera01826 at rogers.com>
>  To: Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com>
> Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
>  Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 8:28 AM
>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Probably not new to you aeroheads but wow-
>
> I saw a shorter clip of the ascent, but that link is much more impressive.
> That is a beautiful piece of video, and an even more beautiful piece of
> flying. The pilots make that look effortless, but I doubt it was! Very
> impressive.
>
> Mark Charlton
> pantera01826 at rogers.com
>
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2015, at 10:47 PM, Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com> wrote:
>
>> This apparently is not a first time video of this new plane and its take
>> off ability.  I am sure it is about as light as it can get but
>> still!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> http://www.refinery29.com/2015/06/89134/boeing-787-dreamliner-takeoff-video
>>
>> I was wowed by a C141 Star Lifter in 1966.
>>
>> Jerry Knotts
>>
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