[DeTomaso] Adding sucker fans

[MikeLDrew at aol.com]

In a message dated 7/5/15 16 14 24, rob at dumoulins.net writes:


> 
> The reason I want to lay it forward is to get some modern fans on it. 
> 
>>>That is definitely a good idea!   But one does not need to lay the 
radiator forward to fit modern fans--either pushers or suckers.

> >I believe my radiator is a Hall unit from many years back.
> 
>>>That is a very good thing indeed.   Hall brass radiators are fantastic 
(their stock replacement unit, this one:   
http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&item=20270)


>  >It has both a top and bottom sensor, though only the top is wired. 
> 
>>>Why wouldn't you wire the fans to come on sequentially, as originally 
designed?

Hall used to supply their radiator with two different temperature switches, 
again, as per the originals.   Lately they have been selling them with the 
same temp in both holes, which doesn't seem very smart to me.   Since 
switches are available anywhere in a variety of temps, and are cheap as chips 
(under $25 each), there's no reason not to have two different temps and have the 
second fan only come on as needed.


> >The car does get warm in traffic in the Florida heat and my plans are to 
> rebuild the stock motor up to 500 hp. The original fans are pitifully bad. 
> 
> 
>>>Oh yes, the stock fans are pretty lame.   Nobody is advocating sticking 
with those!

> >I cannot imagine my current setup is up to it. Since I have yet to ever 
> pull it out, I am preparing for a little cleanup.
>  I considered getting pusher fans instead which would be much easier, but 
> I also do not care for the tight fitment between the radiator and headlight 
> switches/motor that would make that area much more accessible.
> 
>>>Well, think about that statement for a moment.

Think about the amount of work that would be required to enable you to 
change your cooling system around to access those components from above.   It's 
a LOT of work.   How often does anybody really need to access those 
components?  Perhaps once in a car's lifetime.   I suggest taking the radiator out, 
then pulling the headlight drive mechanism, installing a brass gear if there 
isn't one already there, lubing everything up and putting it all back 
together.   

There, done for the next 40 years.   If, by chance, you suffered a failure 
of a fan limit switch, with a stock setup with pusher fans, in the worst 
case you would have to remove the fans (takes five minutes), unbolt the 
radiator and lean it forward slightly to get the limit switch out.   If it concerns 
you that much, why not just install a new one right now?   That would then 
be the final time you would ever need to access that area.

Really, I think you are overthinking things quite a bit, creating a LOT of 
work (and proposing to spend a lot of money) to prepare for a contingency 
that would likely never come up, and virtually 100% guaranteed would never 
come up if you just did a little preventative maintenance right now.

I say, get yourself some Hall pusher fans, install them with the requisite 
mods that you would use with any new fans (grounding them locally through 
diodes, and improve the current path by stringing new wires from aux fuses 
through new relays), and then live happily ever after.

While new Hall fans are expensive:

http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&
item=20271

They are readily available used, either from people here who have 
'upgraded' to a sucker fan configuration, or even from Pantera vendors who have sold 
new cooling packages and took the old fans in as a partial payment.   FWIW 
Lori's Hall radiator came to us as a gift from Wilkinson (it was leaking, and 
needed $40 of repairs), and he sold her Hall fans for under $100 for the 
pair.   Both have since been put to great use, and her car runs at 180 degrees 
all day long, just like mine.....

Good luck!

Mike
-------------- next part --------------
   In a message dated 7/5/15 16 14 24, rob at dumoulins.net writes:

     The reason I want to lay it forward is to get some modern fans on
     it.

   >>>That is definitely a good idea!  But one does not need to lay the
   radiator forward to fit modern fans--either pushers or suckers.

     >I believe my radiator is a Hall unit from many years back.

   >>>That is a very good thing indeed.  Hall brass radiators are
   fantastic (their stock replacement unit, this one:
   http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&ite
   m=20270)

     >It has both a top and bottom sensor, though only the top is wired.

   >>>Why wouldn't you wire the fans to come on sequentially, as
   originally designed?
   Hall used to supply their radiator with two different temperature
   switches, again, as per the originals.  Lately they have been selling
   them with the same temp in both holes, which doesn't seem very smart to
   me.  Since switches are available anywhere in a variety of temps, and
   are cheap as chips (under $25 each), there's no reason not to have two
   different temps and have the second fan only come on as needed.

     >The car does get warm in traffic in the Florida heat and my plans
     are to rebuild the stock motor up to 500 hp. The original fans are
     pitifully bad.

   >>>Oh yes, the stock fans are pretty lame.  Nobody is advocating
   sticking with those!

     >I cannot imagine my current setup is up to it. Since I have yet to
     ever pull it out, I am preparing for a little cleanup.
     I considered getting pusher fans instead which would be much easier,
     but I also do not care for the tight fitment between the radiator
     and headlight switches/motor that would make that area much more
     accessible.

   >>>Well, think about that statement for a moment.
   Think about the amount of work that would be required to enable you to
   change your cooling system around to access those components from
   above.  It's a LOT of work.  How often does anybody really need to
   access those components? Perhaps once in a car's lifetime.  I suggest
   taking the radiator out, then pulling the headlight drive mechanism,
   installing a brass gear if there isn't one already there, lubing
   everything up and putting it all back together.
   There, done for the next 40 years.  If, by chance, you suffered a
   failure of a fan limit switch, with a stock setup with pusher fans, in
   the worst case you would have to remove the fans (takes five minutes),
   unbolt the radiator and lean it forward slightly to get the limit
   switch out.  If it concerns you that much, why not just install a new
   one right now?  That would then be the final time you would ever need
   to access that area.
   Really, I think you are overthinking things quite a bit, creating a LOT
   of work (and proposing to spend a lot of money) to prepare for a
   contingency that would likely never come up, and virtually 100%
   guaranteed would never come up if you just did a little preventative
   maintenance right now.
   I say, get yourself some Hall pusher fans, install them with the
   requisite mods that you would use with any new fans (grounding them
   locally through diodes, and improve the current path by stringing new
   wires from aux fuses through new relays), and then live happily ever
   after.
   While new Hall fans are expensive:
   http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&ite
   m=20271
   They are readily available used, either from people here who have
   'upgraded' to a sucker fan configuration, or even from Pantera vendors
   who have sold new cooling packages and took the old fans in as a
   partial payment.  FWIW Lori's Hall radiator came to us as a gift from
   Wilkinson (it was leaking, and needed $40 of repairs), and he sold her
   Hall fans for under $100 for the pair.  Both have since been put to
   great use, and her car runs at 180 degrees all day long, just like
   mine.....
   Good luck!
   Mike