[DeTomaso] New Ford GT Twin Turbo V6
Boyd Casey
boyd411 at gmail.com
Sat Jan 17 14:29:59 EST 2015
I have also read that this iteration of the Ford GT is being built to meet
the homologation requirements to race as a production car but is going to
be built with none of the frills found on the last Ford GT (like AC) so
this is going to be a street legal race car. Apparently Ford is quite
serious about their aspirations to win at Lemans.
As far as V6 twin turbos go look at the success Nissan has had with the
GTR. It's not much to look at but it has broken all sorts of track records.
Boyd
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 10:53 PM, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
> Dear Bill: I will certainly drink to that. Warmest regards, Chuck
> Engles
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From Bill Moore
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Ford GT Twin Turbo V6
>
> "I don't care what it sounds like, just so long as it wins that little
> race in France."
>
> Cheers:
>
> Please use my [1]bill at incendium.com email address in all messages.
>
> Bill Moore
>
> Incendium Supply Ltd.
>
> Suite 416, #305-4625 Varsity Drive N.W.
>
> Calgary, AB T3A 0Z9
>
> 403.202.0055
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: DeTomaso [[2]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
> [3]michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> Sent: January-16-15 2:42 PM
>
> To: Sean Korb
>
> Cc: [4]detomaso at poca.com
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Ford GT Twin Turbo V6
>
> You can hear it here.
>
> [5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C-qSRnqUZg
>
> [6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMD3Vu3xL-c
>
> Michael Shortt
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:04 PM, Sean Korb <[7]spkorb at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I also think the sound is something I really want to keep.A But I
> also
>
> > think the Buick GN motor is the answer to a lot of questions that
> have
>
> > not been asked yet.A All cars should come with one as the base
>
> > platform.
>
> > sean
>
> >
>
> > On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Curt Hall
> <[1][8]cuvee at sbcglobal.net>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> > A A For me...as Cool as the twin turbo V6 or even a turbo 4 may
>
> > be,...I
>
> > A A would think the sound from those two Engines in a Pantera
> would
>
> > just
>
> > A A sound wrong! But that's just me. That said...I also
> believe...
>
> > What
>
> > A A Ever Float Your Boat! It's your Car! I would still enjoy
> seeing
>
> > it!
>
> > A A Curt
>
> > A A On Friday, January 16, 2015 12:08 PM,
>
> > "[2][9]michael at michaelshortt.com"
>
> > A A <[3][10]michael at michaelshortt.com> wrote:
>
> > A A A The crate version is 365 hp, 417 lbs at around $8,500
>
> > A A A Michael Shortt
>
> > A A A On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Dave
>
> > <[1][1][4][11]dave at damardirect.com>
>
> > A A wrote:
>
> > A A A A Take a look at the engine specs on the 85-87 Buick
> GN, 6
>
> > cyl. I
>
> > A A A A understand that was years ago but at the time, 85-87,
> it
>
> > was the
>
> > A A A A fastest US production car. It was a big car compared
> to
>
> > sports
>
> > A A cars.
>
> > A A A A It met its demise because of Corvette management.
>
> > A A A A IndyDave
>
> > A A A A -----Original Message-----
>
> > A A A A From: [2][2][5][12]cengles at cox.net
>
> > [mailto:[3][3][6][13]cengles at cox.net]
>
> > A A A A Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 10:53 AM
>
> >
>
> > A A A A Cc: [4][4][7][14]detomaso at poca.com
>
> > A A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Ford GT Twin Turbo V6
>
> > A A A A Dear Forum,
>
> > A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA In a coincidence, there
> is
>
> > an interesting
>
> > A A A A article in the new Road and Track about turbocharging
> modern
>
> > A A engines
>
> > A A A A in modern sports
>
> > A A A A cars.AA A FWIW.
>
> > A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA Full disclosure:AA
> complete
>
> > article is Rare
>
> > A A A A Forced Air on
>
> > A A A A page 27-28 in the Feb 2015 Road&Track by Jason Cammisa.
>
> > A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA A These are my selected
>
> > highlights from that
>
> > A A A A article.
>
> > A A A A Complete disclosure: I am not a fan of turbos.AA I
> prefer
>
> > normally
>
> > A A A A aspirated engines for a number of reasons and this
> article
>
> > supports
>
> > A A A A my
>
> > A A A A opinion.AA While the new Ford GT has a twin turbo
> Ecotec
>
> > V-6, I
>
> > A A A A would
>
> > A A A A prefer it to have a normally aspirated Coyote or the
> new
>
> > flat crank
>
> > A A A A V8.
>
> > A A A A A From Jason Cammisa:
>
> > A A A A aWe donat like the turbo,a said theAA man with an
> Italian
>
> > accent,
>
> > A A A A abut it
>
> > A A A A is the right way to reduce emissions without
> sacrificing
>
> > A A A A performance.a
>
> > A A A A A rare moment of honesty, then a graceful slingshot
> into the
>
> > same
>
> > A A A A turbo
>
> > A A A A spin weave heard from all corners of the globe.
>
> > A A A A The fact is, every car company is being forced into
> forced
>
> > A A A A induction,
>
> > A A A A for the exact reasons our Italian friend gave.AA Since
>
> > neither he
>
> > A A A A nor the
>
> > A A A A company he works for, Ferrari, can come out and say it,
> I
>
> > will:
>
> > A A A A Turbos
>
> > A A A A arenat the best solution, especially for
> high-performance
>
> > cars, and
>
> > A A A A they
>
> > A A A A donat always provide the benefits that carmakers claim
> they
>
> > do.
>
> > A A A A Turbos, which are powered by exhaust energy that is
>
> > otherwise
>
> > A A A A wasted,
>
> > A A A A increase engine output by forcing extra air into the
>
> > cylinders,
>
> > A A A A prompting the fuel injectors to provide more fuel for
>
> > combustion.A
>
> > A A A A More
>
> > A A A A combustion, alas, means more heat.AA To keep the
> engine
>
> > from
>
> > A A A A overheating,
>
> > A A A A turbo engines inject excess gas under boost.AA It
> seems
>
> > counter
>
> > A A A A intuitive, but this arich mixturea cools down
> combustion and
>
> > A A reduces
>
> > A A A A exhaust temperatures.AA It is also a double whammy
> fuel
>
> > economy
>
> > A A A A killer,
>
> > A A A A because burning that extra fuel doesnat help the engine
> make
>
> > more
>
> > A A A A power,
>
> > A A A A it actually reduces output.
>
> > A A A A a|.out in the real world, riding that big, effortless
> wave
>
> > of
>
> > A A A A boosted
>
> > A A A A midrange torque means burning extra fuelaand creating
> even
>
> > more
>
> > A A A A CO2.AA So
>
> > A A A A much for reducing emissions.
>
> > A A A A Performance, in this sense, refers solely to
>
> > acceleration.AA The
>
> > A A A A Ferrari
>
> > A A A A California Tas turbo 3.9 liter 553 hp V8 easily
> outmuscles
>
> > the old
>
> > A A A A Californiaas naturally aspirated 4.3 liter 483 hp v8.AA
>
> > Mission
>
> > A A A A accomplished.AA Except thereas more to an engineas
> behavior
>
> > than
>
> > A A A A going
>
> > A A A A fast in a straight line.AA The way the engine
> generates
>
> > power aits
>
> > A A A A personality, if you will---is just as important as the
>
> > numbers.AA A
>
> > A A A A For
>
> > A A A A the entire history of the marque, Ferrarias engines
> have
>
> > delivered
>
> > A A A A urgency and drama in lockstep with revs, creating a
> festival
>
> > of
>
> > A A A A sound
>
> > A A A A and fury as they raced toward a redline.AA Ferrari
> engines
>
> > love to
>
> > A A A A rev,
>
> > A A A A which is one of the main reasons we love Ferraris.
>
> > A A A A Once thereas a turbo impeller muffling the screaming
> glory
>
> > of that
>
> > A A A A prancing horse, youare talking about an entirely
> different
>
> > animal.
>
> > A A A A Engines with turbos big enough to provide boost
> throughout
>
> > the
>
> > A A A A operating
>
> > A A A A range produce peak torque at low revs and then
> gradually run
>
> > out of
>
> > A A A A steam, like turbodiesels do.AA To combat that,
>
> > gas-powertrain
>
> > A A A A engineers
>
> > A A A A artificially create broad torque plateaus by limiting
> boost
>
> > at
>
> > A A lower
>
> > A A A A engine speeds.AA That electronic trickery helps the
> engine
>
> > more
>
> > A A A A closely
>
> > A A A A emulate a naturally aspirated one, but even that isnat
>
> > enough for
>
> > A A A A Ferrari.AA The California Tas computer also looks at
> gear
>
> > position
>
> > A A A A and
>
> > A A A A limits max boost in lower gears to encourage its driver
> to
>
> > revel in
>
> > A A A A the
>
> > A A A A gears.
>
> > A A A A Turbo lag.AA Ferrari claims the Californiaas new turbo
>
> > engine has
>
> > A A A A azero
>
> > A A A A turbo laga and ainstantaneous response,a then defines
>
> > response time
>
> > A A A A as,
>
> > A A A A aless than one second.a Really?AA In a car that can
> hit 60
>
> > mph in
>
> > A A A A three
>
> > A A A A seconds, one second, is anything but instantaneous.
>
> > A A A A Immediate, predictable response is a requirement in any
>
> > driveras
>
> > A A A A car.
>
> > A A A A Naturally aspirated engines react without delay to
> throttle
>
> > inputs,
>
> > A A A A but
>
> > A A A A a turbo engine is vastly more complicated.AA It has
> two
>
> > torque
>
> > A A A A curvesaone
>
> > A A A A when it is off boost and one when it is at full puff.
>
> > A A A A A naturally aspirated engineas output is determined by
> the
>
> > position
>
> > A A A A of
>
> > A A A A the pedal and the engine speed, period.AA Turbos
> change
>
> > that into a
>
> > A A A A complicated matrix with far too many variables for a
> driver
>
> > to keep
>
> > A A A A track of.
>
> > A A A A Modern Ferraris do what you ask, when you ask, how you
>
> > ask.AA They
>
> > A A A A are
>
> > A A A A pretty much perfect.AA Although their forth coming
>
> > turbocharged
>
> > A A A A replacements will almost certainly be faster, I fear
> they
>
> > will be
>
> > A A A A undriveable without assistance from an onboard
>
> > supercomputer.
>
> > A A A A It as sad that the marquee feels compelled by
> government
>
> > policy to
>
> > A A A A bolt
>
> > A A A A turbos on to their lovely engines, when it wonat make a
> whit
>
> > of
>
> > A A A A difference to air quality.AA A And it is doubly sad
> that we
>
> > all
>
> > A A know
>
> > A A A A it
>
> > A A A will change the way Ferraris drive.a
>
> > A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA A Warmest
>
> > regards,AA Chuck Engles
>
> > A A A _______________________________________________
>
> > A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> > A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>
> >
>
> > A A A [5][5][8][15]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > A A A
> [6][6][9][16]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
>
> > unsubscribe, etc.)
>
> > A A A use the links above.
>
> > A A A --
>
> > A A A Michael L. Shortt
>
> > A A A Savannah, Georgia
>
> > A A A [7][10][17]www.michaelshortt.com
>
> > A A A [8][7][11][18]michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> > A A A [12]912-232-9390
>
> > A A A A
>
> > A A A This email is protected by the Electronic Communications
>
> > Privacy
>
> > A A A Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may
> be
>
> > legally
>
> > A A A privileged.AA If you are not the intended recipient,
> you
>
> > are hereby
>
> > A A A notified
>
> > A A A that any retention, dissemination, distribution or
> copying
>
> > of this
>
> > A A A communication is strictly prohibited.AA Please reply to
> the
>
> > sender
>
> > A A that
>
> > A A A you
>
> > A A A have received this message in error, then delete it.AA
>
> > Thank you
>
> > A A References
>
> > A A A 1. [19]mailto:[8][13]dave at damardirect.com
>
> > A A A 2. [20]mailto:[9][14]cengles at cox.net
>
> > A A A 3. [21]mailto:[10][15]cengles at cox.net
>
> > A A A 4. [22]mailto:[11][16]detomaso at poca.com
>
> > A A A 5. [23]mailto:[12][17]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > A A A 6.
>
> > [13][18][24]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > A A A 7.
>
> > A A [14][19][25]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>
> > A A A 8. [26]mailto:[15][20]michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> > A A _______________________________________________
>
> > A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> > A A DeTomaso mailing list
>
> > A A [16][21][27]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > A A
> [17][22][28]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe,
>
> > etc.)
>
> > A A use the links above.
>
> > References
>
> > A A 1. [29]mailto:[23]dave at damardirect.com
>
> > A A 2. [30]mailto:[24]cengles at cox.net
>
> > A A 3. [31]mailto:[25]cengles at cox.net
>
> > A A 4. [32]mailto:[26]detomaso at poca.com
>
> > A A 5. [33]mailto:[27]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > A A 6.
> [28][34]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > A A 7. [35]mailto:[29]michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> > A A 8. [36]mailto:[30]dave at damardirect.com
>
> > A A 9. [37]mailto:[31]cengles at cox.net
>
> > A 10. [38]mailto:[32]cengles at cox.net
>
> > A 11. [39]mailto:[33]detomaso at poca.com
>
> > A 12. [40]mailto:[34]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > A 13.
> [35][41]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > A 14. [36][42]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>
> > A 15. [43]mailto:[37]michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> >
>
> > A 16. [44]mailto:[38]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > A 17. [39][45]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> > DeTomaso mailing list
>
> > [40][46]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > [41][47]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>
> > etc.) use the links above.
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > Sean Korb [42][48]spkorb at spkorb.org [43][49]http://www.spkorb.org
>
> > '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71
> Pantera
>
> > #1382
>
> > "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
>
> > "Computers are useless.A They can only give you answers." -P.
>
> > Picasso
>
> >
>
> > References
>
> >
>
> > 1. [50]mailto:cuvee at sbcglobal.net
>
> > 2. [51]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> > 3. [52]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> > 4. [53]mailto:dave at damardirect.com
>
> > 5. [54]mailto:cengles at cox.net
>
> > 6. [55]mailto:cengles at cox.net
>
> > 7. [56]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>
> > 8. [57]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > 9. [58]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > 10. [59]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>
> > 11. [60]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> > 12. [61]tel:912-232-9390
>
> > 13. [62]mailto:dave at damardirect.com
>
> > 14. [63]mailto:cengles at cox.net
>
> > 15. [64]mailto:cengles at cox.net
>
> > 16. [65]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>
> > 17. [66]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > 18. [67]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > 19. [68]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>
> > 20. [69]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> > 21. [70]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > 22. [71]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > 23. [72]mailto:dave at damardirect.com
>
> > 24. [73]mailto:cengles at cox.net
>
> > 25. [74]mailto:cengles at cox.net
>
> > 26. [75]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>
> > 27. [76]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > 28. [77]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > 29. [78]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> > 30. [79]mailto:dave at damardirect.com
>
> > 31. [80]mailto:cengles at cox.net
>
> > 32. [81]mailto:cengles at cox.net
>
> > 33. [82]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>
> > 34. [83]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > 35. [84]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > 36. [85]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>
> > 37. [86]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> > 38. [87]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > 39. [88]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > 40. [89]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > 41. [90]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > 42. [91]mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
>
> > 43. [92]http://www.spkorb.org/
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> >
>
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> >
>
> > DeTomaso mailing list
>
> > [93]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > [94]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> >
>
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>
> > use the links above.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> --
>
> Michael L. Shortt
>
> Savannah, Georgia
>
> [95]www.michaelshortt.com
>
> [96]michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> 912-232-9390
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act,
> 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of
> this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender
> that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank
> you
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
>
> [97]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> [98]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:bill at incendium.com
> 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 3. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
> 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C-qSRnqUZg
> 6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMD3Vu3xL-c
> 7. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> 8. mailto:cuvee at sbcglobal.net
> 9. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
> 10. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
> 11. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
> 12. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 13. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 14. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 15. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 16. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 17. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
> 18. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
> 19. mailto:[8][13]dave at damardirect.com
> 20. mailto:[9][14]cengles at cox.net
> 21. mailto:[10][15]cengles at cox.net
> 22. mailto:[11][16]detomaso at poca.com
> 23. mailto:[12][17]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 25. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
> 26. mailto:[15][20]michael at michaelshortt.com
> 27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 29. mailto:[23]dave at damardirect.com
> 30. mailto:[24]cengles at cox.net
> 31. mailto:[25]cengles at cox.net
> 32. mailto:[26]detomaso at poca.com
> 33. mailto:[27]DeTomaso at poca.com
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> 37. mailto:[31]cengles at cox.net
> 38. mailto:[32]cengles at cox.net
> 39. mailto:[33]detomaso at poca.com
> 40. mailto:[34]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 41. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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> 52. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
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-------------- next part --------------
I have also read that this iteration of the Ford GT is being built to
meet theA A homologation requirements to race as a production car but
is going to be built with none of the frills found on the last Ford GT
(like AC) so this is going to be a street legal race car. Apparently
Ford is quite serious about their aspirations to win at Lemans.A
As far as V6 twin turbos go look at the success Nissan has had with the
GTR. It's not much to look at but it has broken all sorts of track
records.
Boyd
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 10:53 PM, Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>
wrote:
A A Dear Bill:A I will certainly drink to that.A A Warmest
regards, Chuck
A A Engles
A A -----Original Message-----
A A From Bill Moore
A A Cc: [2]detomaso at poca.com
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Ford GT Twin Turbo V6
A A "I don't care what it sounds like, just so long as it wins that
little
A A race in France."
A A Cheers:
A A Please use my [1][3]bill at incendium.com email address in all
messages.
A A Bill Moore
A A Incendium Supply Ltd.
A A Suite 416, #305-4625 Varsity Drive N.W.
A A Calgary, AB T3A 0Z9
A A [4]403.202.0055
A A -----Original Message-----
A A From: DeTomaso [[2]mailto:[5]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
Behalf Of
A A [3][6]michael at michaelshortt.com
A A Sent: January-16-15 2:42 PM
A A To: Sean Korb
A A Cc: [4][7]detomaso at poca.com
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Ford GT Twin Turbo V6
A A You can hear it here.
A A [5][8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C-qSRnqUZg
A A [6][9]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMD3Vu3xL-c
A A Michael Shortt
A A On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:04 PM, Sean Korb
<[7][10]spkorb at gmail.com> wrote:
A A >A A I also think the sound is something I really want to
keep.AA But I
A A also
A A >A A think the Buick GN motor is the answer to a lot of
questions that
A A have
A A >A A not been asked yet.AA All cars should come with one as
the base
A A >A A platform.
A A >A A sean
A A >
A A >A A On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Curt Hall
A A <[1][8][11]cuvee at sbcglobal.net>
A A >A A wrote:
A A >
A A >A A A AA A For me...as Cool as the twin turbo V6 or even a
turbo 4 may
A A >A A A be,...I
A A >A A A AA A would think the sound from those two Engines in
a Pantera
A A would
A A >A A A just
A A >A A A AA A sound wrong! But that's just me. That said...I
also
A A believe...
A A >A A A What
A A >A A A AA A Ever Float Your Boat! It's your Car! I would
still enjoy
A A seeing
A A >A A A it!
A A >A A A AA A Curt
A A >A A A AA A On Friday, January 16, 2015 12:08 PM,
A A >A A A "[2][9][12]michael at michaelshortt.com"
A A >A A A AA A <[3][10][13]michael at michaelshortt.com> wrote:
A A >A A A AA AA A The crate version is 365 hp, 417 lbs at
around $8,500
A A >A A A AA AA A Michael Shortt
A A >A A A AA AA A On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Dave
A A >A A A <[1][1][4][11][14]dave at damardirect.com>
A A >A A A AA A wrote:
A A >A A A AA AA AA A Take a look at the engine specs on the
85-87 Buick
A A GN, 6
A A >A A A cyl. I
A A >A A A AA AA AA A understand that was years ago but at
the time, 85-87,
A A it
A A >A A A was the
A A >A A A AA AA AA A fastest US production car. It was a big
car compared
A A to
A A >A A A sports
A A >A A A AA A cars.
A A >A A A AA AA AA A It met its demise because of Corvette
management.
A A >A A A AA AA AA A IndyDave
A A >A A A AA AA AA A -----Original Message-----
A A >A A A AA AA AA A From: [2][2][5][12][15]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A A [mailto:[3][3][6][13][16]cengles at cox.net]
A A >A A A AA AA AA A Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 10:53 AM
A A >
A A >A A AA AA AA A Cc: [4][4][7][14][17]detomaso at poca.com
A A >A A AA AA AA A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Ford GT Twin
Turbo V6
A A >A A AA AA AA A Dear Forum,
A A >A A AA AA AA A AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA In
a coincidence, there
A A is
A A >A A an interesting
A A >A A AA AA AA A article in the new Road and Track about
turbocharging
A A modern
A A >A A AA A engines
A A >A A AA AA AA A in modern sports
A A >A A AA AA AA A cars.AAA A FWIW.
A A >A A AA AA AA A AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA
Full disclosure:AA
A A complete
A A >A A article is Rare
A A >A A AA AA AA A Forced Air on
A A >A A AA AA AA A page 27-28 in the Feb 2015 Road&Track by
Jason Cammisa.
A A >A A AA AA AA A AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA A These
are my selected
A A >A A highlights from that
A A >A A AA AA AA A article.
A A >A A AA AA AA A Complete disclosure: I am not a fan of
turbos.AAA I
A A prefer
A A >A A normally
A A >A A AA AA AA A aspirated engines for a number of reasons
and this
A A article
A A >A A supports
A A >A A AA AA AA A my
A A >A A AA AA AA A opinion.AAA While the new Ford GT has a
twin turbo
A A Ecotec
A A >A A V-6, I
A A >A A AA AA AA A would
A A >A A AA AA AA A prefer it to have a normally aspirated
Coyote or the
A A new
A A >A A flat crank
A A >A A AA AA AA A V8.
A A >A A AA AA AA A A From Jason Cammisa:
A A >A A AA AA AA A aWe donat like the turbo,a said theAAA
man with an
A A Italian
A A >A A accent,
A A >A A AA AA AA A abut it
A A >A A AA AA AA A is the right way to reduce emissions
without
A A sacrificing
A A >A A AA AA AA A performance.a
A A >A A AA AA AA A A rare moment of honesty, then a graceful
slingshot
A A into the
A A >A A same
A A >A A AA AA AA A turbo
A A >A A AA AA AA A spin weave heard from all corners of the
globe.
A A >A A AA AA AA A The fact is, every car company is being
forced into
A A forced
A A >A A AA AA AA A induction,
A A >A A AA AA AA A for the exact reasons our Italian friend
gave.AAA Since
A A >A A neither he
A A >A A AA AA AA A nor the
A A >A A AA AA AA A company he works for, Ferrari, can come
out and say it,
A A I
A A >A A will:
A A >A A AA AA AA A Turbos
A A >A A AA AA AA A arenat the best solution, especially for
A A high-performance
A A >A A cars, and
A A >A A AA AA AA A they
A A >A A AA AA AA A donat always provide the benefits that
carmakers claim
A A they
A A >A A do.
A A >A A AA AA AA A Turbos, which are powered by exhaust
energy that is
A A >A A otherwise
A A >A A AA AA AA A wasted,
A A >A A AA AA AA A increase engine output by forcing extra
air into the
A A >A A cylinders,
A A >A A AA AA AA A prompting the fuel injectors to provide
more fuel for
A A >A A combustion.A
A A >A A AA AA AA A More
A A >A A AA AA AA A combustion, alas, means more heat.AAA To
keep the
A A engine
A A >A A from
A A >A A AA AA AA A overheating,
A A >A A AA AA AA A turbo engines inject excess gas under
boost.AAA It
A A seems
A A >A A counter
A A >A A AA AA AA A intuitive, but this arich mixturea cools
down
A A combustion and
A A >A A AA A reduces
A A >A A AA AA AA A exhaust temperatures.AAA It is also a
double whammy
A A fuel
A A >A A economy
A A >A A AA AA AA A killer,
A A >A A AA AA AA A because burning that extra fuel doesnat
help the engine
A A make
A A >A A more
A A >A A AA AA AA A power,
A A >A A AA AA AA A it actually reduces output.
A A >A A AA AA AA A a|.out in the real world, riding that big,
effortless
A A wave
A A >A A of
A A >A A AA AA AA A boosted
A A >A A AA AA AA A midrange torque means burning extra
fuelaand creating
A A even
A A >A A more
A A >A A AA AA AA A CO2.AAA So
A A >A A AA AA AA A much for reducing emissions.
A A >A A AA AA AA A Performance, in this sense, refers solely
to
A A >A A acceleration.AAA The
A A >A A AA AA AA A Ferrari
A A >A A AA AA AA A California Tas turbo 3.9 liter 553 hp V8
easily
A A outmuscles
A A >A A the old
A A >A A AA AA AA A Californiaas naturally aspirated 4.3 liter
483 hp v8.AA
A A >A A Mission
A A >A A AA AA AA A accomplished.AAA Except thereas more to
an engineas
A A behavior
A A >A A than
A A >A A AA AA AA A going
A A >A A AA AA AA A fast in a straight line.AAA The way the
engine
A A generates
A A >A A power aits
A A >A A AA AA AA A personality, if you will---is just as
important as the
A A >A A numbers.AAA A
A A >A A AA AA AA A For
A A >A A AA AA AA A the entire history of the marque,
Ferrarias engines
A A have
A A >A A delivered
A A >A A AA AA AA A urgency and drama in lockstep with revs,
creating a
A A festival
A A >A A of
A A >A A AA AA AA A sound
A A >A A AA AA AA A and fury as they raced toward a
redline.AAA Ferrari
A A engines
A A >A A love to
A A >A A AA AA AA A rev,
A A >A A AA AA AA A which is one of the main reasons we love
Ferraris.
A A >A A AA AA AA A Once thereas a turbo impeller muffling the
screaming
A A glory
A A >A A of that
A A >A A AA AA AA A prancing horse, youare talking about an
entirely
A A different
A A >A A animal.
A A >A A AA AA AA A Engines with turbos big enough to provide
boost
A A throughout
A A >A A the
A A >A A AA AA AA A operating
A A >A A AA AA AA A range produce peak torque at low revs and
then
A A gradually run
A A >A A out of
A A >A A AA AA AA A steam, like turbodiesels do.AAA To combat
that,
A A >A A gas-powertrain
A A >A A AA AA AA A engineers
A A >A A AA AA AA A artificially create broad torque plateaus
by limiting
A A boost
A A >A A at
A A >A A AA A lower
A A >A A AA AA AA A engine speeds.AAA That electronic
trickery helps the
A A engine
A A >A A more
A A >A A AA AA AA A closely
A A >A A AA AA AA A emulate a naturally aspirated one, but
even that isnat
A A >A A enough for
A A >A A AA AA AA A Ferrari.AAA The California Tas computer
also looks at
A A gear
A A >A A position
A A >A A AA AA AA A and
A A >A A AA AA AA A limits max boost in lower gears to
encourage its driver
A A to
A A >A A revel in
A A >A A AA AA AA A the
A A >A A AA AA AA A gears.
A A >A A AA AA AA A Turbo lag.AAA Ferrari claims the
Californiaas new turbo
A A >A A engine has
A A >A A AA AA AA A azero
A A >A A AA AA AA A turbo laga and ainstantaneous response,a
then defines
A A >A A response time
A A >A A AA AA AA A as,
A A >A A AA AA AA A aless than one second.a Really?AAA In a
car that can
A A hit 60
A A >A A mph in
A A >A A AA AA AA A three
A A >A A AA AA AA A seconds, one second, is anything but
instantaneous.
A A >A A AA AA AA A Immediate, predictable response is a
requirement in any
A A >A A driveras
A A >A A AA AA AA A car.
A A >A A AA AA AA A Naturally aspirated engines react without
delay to
A A throttle
A A >A A inputs,
A A >A A AA AA AA A but
A A >A A AA AA AA A a turbo engine is vastly more
complicated.AAA It has
A A two
A A >A A torque
A A >A A AA AA AA A curvesaone
A A >A A AA AA AA A when it is off boost and one when it is at
full puff.
A A >A A AA AA AA A A naturally aspirated engineas output is
determined by
A A the
A A >A A position
A A >A A AA AA AA A of
A A >A A AA AA AA A the pedal and the engine speed,
period.AAA Turbos
A A change
A A >A A that into a
A A >A A AA AA AA A complicated matrix with far too many
variables for a
A A driver
A A >A A to keep
A A >A A AA AA AA A track of.
A A >A A AA AA AA A Modern Ferraris do what you ask, when you
ask, how you
A A >A A ask.AAA They
A A >A A AA AA AA A are
A A >A A AA AA AA A pretty much perfect.AAA Although their
forth coming
A A >A A turbocharged
A A >A A AA AA AA A replacements will almost certainly be
faster, I fear
A A they
A A >A A will be
A A >A A AA AA AA A undriveable without assistance from an
onboard
A A >A A supercomputer.
A A >A A AA AA AA A It as sad that the marquee feels compelled
by
A A government
A A >A A policy to
A A >A A AA AA AA A bolt
A A >A A AA AA AA A turbos on to their lovely engines, when it
wonat make a
A A whit
A A >A A of
A A >A A AA AA AA A difference to air quality.AAA A And it is
doubly sad
A A that we
A A >A A all
A A >A A AA A know
A A >A A AA AA AA A it
A A >A A AA AA A will change the way Ferraris drive.a
A A >A A AA AA A AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA AAA
AAA AAA AAA A Warmest
A A >A A regards,AAA Chuck Engles
A A >A A AA AA A
_______________________________________________
A A >A A AA AA A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A >A A AA AA A DeTomaso mailing list
A A >
A A >A A A AA AA A [5][5][8][15][18]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A A AA AA A
A
A [6][6][9][16][19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.co
m
A A >A A A AA AA A To manage your subscription (change email
address,
A A >A A A unsubscribe, etc.)
A A >A A A AA AA A use the links above.
A A >A A A AA AA A --
A A >A A A AA AA A Michael L. Shortt
A A >A A A AA AA A Savannah, Georgia
A A >A A A AA AA A [7][10][17][20]www.michaelshortt.com
A A >A A A AA AA A [8][7][11][18][21]michael at michaelshortt.com
A A >A A A AA AA A [12]912-232-9390
A A >A A A AA AA A A
A A >A A A AA AA A This email is protected by the Electronic
Communications
A A >A A A Privacy
A A >A A A AA AA A Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is
confidential and may
A A be
A A >A A A legally
A A >A A A AA AA A privileged.AAA If you are not the intended
recipient,
A A you
A A >A A A are hereby
A A >A A A AA AA A notified
A A >A A A AA AA A that any retention, dissemination,
distribution or
A A copying
A A >A A A of this
A A >A A A AA AA A communication is strictly prohibited.AAA
Please reply to
A A the
A A >A A A sender
A A >A A A AA A that
A A >A A A AA AA A you
A A >A A A AA AA A have received this message in error, then
delete it.AA
A A >A A A Thank you
A A >A A A AA A References
A A >A A A AA AA A 1.
[19]mailto:[8][13][22]dave at damardirect.com
A A >A A A AA AA A 2. [20]mailto:[9][14][23]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A A AA AA A 3. [21]mailto:[10][15][24]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A A AA AA A 4. [22]mailto:[11][16][25]detomaso at poca.com
A A >A A A AA AA A 5. [23]mailto:[12][17][26]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A A AA AA A 6.
A A >A A A
[13][18][24][27]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >A A A AA AA A 7.
A A >A A A AA A [14][19][25][28]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
A A >A A A AA AA A 8.
[26]mailto:[15][20][29]michael at michaelshortt.com
A A >A A A AA A _______________________________________________
A A >A A A AA A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A >A A A AA A DeTomaso mailing list
A A >A A A AA A [16][21][27][30]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A A AA A
A
A [17][22][28][31]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >A A A AA A To manage your subscription (change email
address,
A A unsubscribe,
A A >A A A etc.)
A A >A A A AA A use the links above.
A A >A A A References
A A >A A A AA A 1. [29]mailto:[23][32]dave at damardirect.com
A A >A A A AA A 2. [30]mailto:[24][33]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A A AA A 3. [31]mailto:[25][34]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A A AA A 4. [32]mailto:[26][35]detomaso at poca.com
A A >A A A AA A 5. [33]mailto:[27][36]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A A AA A 6.
A A [28][34][37]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >A A A AA A 7. [35]mailto:[29][38]michael at michaelshortt.com
A A >A A A AA A 8. [36]mailto:[30][39]dave at damardirect.com
A A >A A A AA A 9. [37]mailto:[31][40]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A A AA 10. [38]mailto:[32][41]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A A AA 11. [39]mailto:[33][42]detomaso at poca.com
A A >A A A AA 12. [40]mailto:[34][43]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A A AA 13.
A A [35][41][44]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >A A A AA 14. [36][42][45]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
A A >A A A AA 15. [43]mailto:[37][46]michael at michaelshortt.com
A A >
A A >A A AA 16. [44]mailto:[38][47]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A AA 17.
[39][45][48]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >
A A >A A A _______________________________________________
A A >A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A >A A A DeTomaso mailing list
A A >A A A [40][46][49]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A A
[41][47][50]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
A A >A A A etc.) use the links above.
A A >
A A >A A --
A A >A A Sean Korb [42][48][51]spkorb at spkorb.org
[43][49][52]http://www.spkorb.org
A A >A A '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59
A35,'71
A A Pantera
A A >A A #1382
A A >A A "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get"
--Miller
A A >A A "Computers are useless.AA They can only give you
answers." -P.
A A > Picasso
A A >
A A > References
A A >
A A >A A 1. [50]mailto:[53]cuvee at sbcglobal.net
A A >A A 2. [51]mailto:[54]michael at michaelshortt.com
A A >A A 3. [52]mailto:[55]michael at michaelshortt.com
A A >A A 4. [53]mailto:[56]dave at damardirect.com
A A >A A 5. [54]mailto:[57]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A 6. [55]mailto:[58]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A 7. [56]mailto:[59]detomaso at poca.com
A A >A A 8. [57]mailto:[60]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A 9.
[58][61]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >A A 10. [59][62]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
A A >A A 11. [60]mailto:[63]michael at michaelshortt.com
A A >A A 12. [61]tel:[64]912-232-9390
A A >A A 13. [62]mailto:[65]dave at damardirect.com
A A >A A 14. [63]mailto:[66]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A 15. [64]mailto:[67]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A 16. [65]mailto:[68]detomaso at poca.com
A A >A A 17. [66]mailto:[69]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A 18.
[67][70]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >A A 19. [68][71]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
A A >A A 20. [69]mailto:[72]michael at michaelshortt.com
A A >A A 21. [70]mailto:[73]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A 22.
[71][74]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >A A 23. [72]mailto:[75]dave at damardirect.com
A A >A A 24. [73]mailto:[76]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A 25. [74]mailto:[77]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A 26. [75]mailto:[78]detomaso at poca.com
A A >A A 27. [76]mailto:[79]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A 28.
[77][80]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >A A 29. [78]mailto:[81]michael at michaelshortt.com
A A >A A 30. [79]mailto:[82]dave at damardirect.com
A A >A A 31. [80]mailto:[83]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A 32. [81]mailto:[84]cengles at cox.net
A A >A A 33. [82]mailto:[85]detomaso at poca.com
A A >A A 34. [83]mailto:[86]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A 35.
[84][87]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >A A 36. [85][88]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
A A >A A 37. [86]mailto:[89]michael at michaelshortt.com
A A >A A 38. [87]mailto:[90]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A 39.
[88][91]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >A A 40. [89]mailto:[92]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >A A 41.
[90][93]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >A A 42. [91]mailto:[94]spkorb at spkorb.org
A A >A A 43. [92][95]http://www.spkorb.org/
A A >
A A > _______________________________________________
A A >
A A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A >
A A > DeTomaso mailing list
A A > [93][96]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A > [94][97]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >
A A > To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.)
A A > use the links above.
A A >
A A >
A A --
A A Michael L. Shortt
A A Savannah, Georgia
A A [95][98]www.michaelshortt.com
A A [96][99]michael at michaelshortt.com
A A [100]912-232-9390
A A This email is protected by the Electronic Communications
Privacy Act,
A A 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
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A A _______________________________________________
A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A DeTomaso mailing list
A A [97][101]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A [98][102]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
A A use the links above.
References
A A 1. mailto:[103]bill at incendium.com
A A 2. mailto:[104]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
A A 3. mailto:[105]michael at michaelshortt.com
A A 4. mailto:[106]detomaso at poca.com
A A 5. [107]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C-qSRnqUZg
A A 6. [108]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMD3Vu3xL-c
A A 7. mailto:[109]spkorb at gmail.com
A A 8. mailto:[110]cuvee at sbcglobal.net
A A 9. mailto:[111]michael at michaelshortt.com
A 10. mailto:[112]michael at michaelshortt.com
A 11. mailto:[113]dave at damardirect.com
A 12. mailto:[114]cengles at cox.net
A 13. mailto:[115]cengles at cox.net
A 14. mailto:[116]detomaso at poca.com
A 15. mailto:[117]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 16. [118]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 17. [119]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
A 18. mailto:[120]michael at michaelshortt.com
A 19. mailto:[8][13][121]dave at damardirect.com
A 20. mailto:[9][14][122]cengles at cox.net
A 21. mailto:[10][15][123]cengles at cox.net
A 22. mailto:[11][16][124]detomaso at poca.com
A 23. mailto:[12][17][125]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 24. [126]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 25. [127]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
A 26. mailto:[15][20][128]michael at michaelshortt.com
A 27. mailto:[129]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 28. [130]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 29. mailto:[23][131]dave at damardirect.com
A 30. mailto:[24][132]cengles at cox.net
A 31. mailto:[25][133]cengles at cox.net
A 32. mailto:[26][134]detomaso at poca.com
A 33. mailto:[27][135]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 34. [136]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 35. mailto:[29][137]michael at michaelshortt.com
A 36. mailto:[30][138]dave at damardirect.com
A 37. mailto:[31][139]cengles at cox.net
A 38. mailto:[32][140]cengles at cox.net
A 39. mailto:[33][141]detomaso at poca.com
A 40. mailto:[34][142]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 41. [143]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 42. [144]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
A 43. mailto:[37][145]michael at michaelshortt.com
A 44. mailto:[38][146]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 45. [147]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 46. mailto:[148]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 47. [149]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 48. mailto:[150]spkorb at spkorb.org
A 49. [151]http://www.spkorb.org/
A 50. mailto:[152]cuvee at sbcglobal.net
A 51. mailto:[153]michael at michaelshortt.com
A 52. mailto:[154]michael at michaelshortt.com
A 53. mailto:[155]dave at damardirect.com
A 54. mailto:[156]cengles at cox.net
A 55. mailto:[157]cengles at cox.net
A 56. mailto:[158]detomaso at poca.com
A 57. mailto:[159]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 58. [160]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 59. [161]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
A 60. mailto:[162]michael at michaelshortt.com
A 61. tel:[163]912-232-9390
A 62. mailto:[164]dave at damardirect.com
A 63. mailto:[165]cengles at cox.net
A 64. mailto:[166]cengles at cox.net
A 65. mailto:[167]detomaso at poca.com
A 66. mailto:[168]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 67. [169]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 68. [170]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
A 69. mailto:[171]michael at michaelshortt.com
A 70. mailto:[172]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 71. [173]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 72. mailto:[174]dave at damardirect.com
A 73. mailto:[175]cengles at cox.net
A 74. mailto:[176]cengles at cox.net
A 75. mailto:[177]detomaso at poca.com
A 76. mailto:[178]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 77. [179]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 78. mailto:[180]michael at michaelshortt.com
A 79. mailto:[181]dave at damardirect.com
A 80. mailto:[182]cengles at cox.net
A 81. mailto:[183]cengles at cox.net
A 82. mailto:[184]detomaso at poca.com
A 83. mailto:[185]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 84. [186]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 85. [187]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
A 86. mailto:[188]michael at michaelshortt.com
A 87. mailto:[189]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 88. [190]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 89. mailto:[191]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 90. [192]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 91. mailto:[193]spkorb at spkorb.org
A 92. [194]http://www.spkorb.org/
A 93. mailto:[195]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 94. [196]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 95. [197]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
A 96. mailto:[198]michael at michaelshortt.com
A 97. mailto:[199]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 98. [200]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[201]DeTomaso at poca.com
[202]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
References
1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
3. mailto:bill at incendium.com
4. tel:403.202.0055
5. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
6. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C-qSRnqUZg
9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMD3Vu3xL-c
10. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
11. mailto:cuvee at sbcglobal.net
12. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
13. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
14. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
15. mailto:cengles at cox.net
16. mailto:cengles at cox.net
17. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
20. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
21. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
22. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
23. mailto:cengles at cox.net
24. mailto:cengles at cox.net
25. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
26. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
27. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
28. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
29. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
30. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
31. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
32. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
33. mailto:cengles at cox.net
34. mailto:cengles at cox.net
35. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
36. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
37. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
38. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
39. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
40. mailto:cengles at cox.net
41. mailto:cengles at cox.net
42. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
43. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
44. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
45. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
46. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
47. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
48. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
49. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
50. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
51. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
52. http://www.spkorb.org/
53. mailto:cuvee at sbcglobal.net
54. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
55. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
56. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
57. mailto:cengles at cox.net
58. mailto:cengles at cox.net
59. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
60. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
61. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
62. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
63. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
64. tel:912-232-9390
65. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
66. mailto:cengles at cox.net
67. mailto:cengles at cox.net
68. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
69. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
70. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
71. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
72. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
73. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
74. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
75. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
76. mailto:cengles at cox.net
77. mailto:cengles at cox.net
78. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
79. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
80. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
81. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
82. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
83. mailto:cengles at cox.net
84. mailto:cengles at cox.net
85. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
86. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
87. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
88. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
89. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
90. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
91. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
92. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
93. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
94. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
95. http://www.spkorb.org/
96. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
97. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
98. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
99. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
100. tel:912-232-9390
101. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
102. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
103. mailto:bill at incendium.com
104. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
105. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
106. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
107. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C-qSRnqUZg
108. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMD3Vu3xL-c
109. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
110. mailto:cuvee at sbcglobal.net
111. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
112. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
113. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
114. mailto:cengles at cox.net
115. mailto:cengles at cox.net
116. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
117. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
118. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
119. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
120. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
121. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
122. mailto:cengles at cox.net
123. mailto:cengles at cox.net
124. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
125. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
126. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
127. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
128. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
129. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
130. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
131. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
132. mailto:cengles at cox.net
133. mailto:cengles at cox.net
134. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
135. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
136. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
137. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
138. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
139. mailto:cengles at cox.net
140. mailto:cengles at cox.net
141. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
142. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
143. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
144. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
145. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
146. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
147. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
148. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
149. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
150. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
151. http://www.spkorb.org/
152. mailto:cuvee at sbcglobal.net
153. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
154. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
155. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
156. mailto:cengles at cox.net
157. mailto:cengles at cox.net
158. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
159. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
160. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
161. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
162. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
163. tel:912-232-9390
164. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
165. mailto:cengles at cox.net
166. mailto:cengles at cox.net
167. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
168. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
169. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
170. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
171. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
172. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
173. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
174. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
175. mailto:cengles at cox.net
176. mailto:cengles at cox.net
177. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
178. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
179. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
180. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
181. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
182. mailto:cengles at cox.net
183. mailto:cengles at cox.net
184. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
185. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
186. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
187. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
188. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
189. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
190. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
191. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
192. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
193. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
194. http://www.spkorb.org/
195. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
196. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
197. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
198. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
199. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
200. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
201. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
202. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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