[DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions

Will Kooiman will.kooiman at gmail.com
Mon Feb 23 15:55:24 EST 2015


Btw, one of the TFI units that went out was a cheap non-Ford part.  That was in the 80's when cheap repos weren't as common.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 23, 2015, at 1:11 PM, Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> 
> An interesting option is running a different ECU-box in place of the std- whatever it is. in my limited experience, what blows up is the ECU, not the distributor and its pickup. So a Ford electronic can be paired with a Ford ECU, a MSD or a Chrysler brainbox. MSD distributors can do the same. All that's needed is a few minutes on the web to get a conversion diagram for the combination you want to run, so the wires all go to the right places. And speaking of Ford brainboxes, most that you find in chain auto parts stores & on the Web are NOT made by Ford- they're made in various backyard shops in Taiwan or India. Ford boxes actually work a little better- likely a legacy of better components inside the potted guts. But Ford boxes will still blow up if you do something dumb- like leave the key on and the engine off so your stereo plays.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
> To: 'Will Kooiman' <will.kooiman at gmail.com>; 'Don Thomas' <don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com>; 'Ken Green' <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 23, 2015 9:13 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
> 
> 
> " I would gladly switch to another box that has a better reputation, but I
> don't know of any." Maybe ICE from Australia, sold at MME Racing. Never
> heard one fail. But then again never heard anybody use it. ;-) Which is
> strange because it's a superior product at a higher price, and in this
> community, that's usually the type of products we like. You can adjust the
> dual level rev limit and the timing curve from your seat. I have it on my
> Pantera and my Longchamp.
> 
> Mvh/Regards
> Mikael
> 
> 
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: Will Kooiman [mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com]
> Sendt: 23. februar 2015 16:24
> Til: Don Thomas; Ken Green
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com; mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> Emne: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
> 
> I had 2 Mallory HiFire digital 6 boxes fail - in 2 separate cars, my 67
> Mustang and my Pantera.
> 
> I had an 84 Mustang 2.3L turbo that got hot and the TFI unit on the side of
> the distributor failed.  I replaced it, and the replacement was bad too.
> So, we replaced it again, and the 2nd replacement was good.
> 
> I've run MSD 6AL on 3 cars now, and so far they haven't failed.
> 
> I like the MSD (or similar box) because a) they sometimes come with start
> retard, b) they seem to run better where I spend the most time - below
> 4,000 rpm and c) they have a built-in rev limiter.
> 
> I would gladly switch to another box that has a better reputation, but I
> don't know of any.
> --
> Will
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2/23/15 10:12 AM, "Don Thomas" <don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  Here is one redundant system on e-bay.
>>  [1]http://www.ebay.com/itm/141426581678
>> 
>>  On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Ken Green via DeTomaso
>>  <[2]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>> 
>>    A  A Has anyone compared the failure rate on MSD ignitions to the
>>    location?
>>    A  A Maybe in a hot Pantera engine compartment, the life is
>>    reduced.A  A lot
>>    A  A of professional racers use (or at least used to use in the
>>    A  A past) redundant MSD ignition systems that let them switch at
>>    any
>>    A  A moment.A  I assume if there was something as good or better,
>>    they would
>>    A  A use it.
>>    A  A Ken
>>    A  A
>>    A
> __________________________________________________________________
>>    A  A From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso at poca.com>
>>    A  A To: [4]charlesmccall at gmail.com; [5]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov;
>>    A  A [6]andymay24 at gmail.com; [7]detomaso at poca.com;
>>    [8]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>>    A  A Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 1:42 PM
>>    A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
> suggestions
>>    A  A  A There are tens or hundreds of millions of cars running
>>    around with
>>    A  A  A electronic ignition systems with a failure rate of
>>    essentially zero.
>>    A  A  A If the rate for MSDs is even 1% per year it is probably
> 100-
>>    1000
>>    A  A times
>>    A  A  A higher than the other systems.
>>    A  A  A Why would anyone use one?A  Doesn't it revert to single
>>    spark mode at
>>    A  A  A like 4K anyway?A  What is the point?'
>>    A  A  A Jim Oddie
>>    A  A  A -----Original Message-----
>> 
>>  A  A  A From: Charles McCall <[1][9]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
>>  A  A  A To: 'Himes, Terry (397C)' (397C)'
>>  <[2][10]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>;
>>  A  A 'Andy
>>  A  A  A May' <[3][11]andymay24 at gmail.com>; detomaso
>>  <[4][12]detomaso at poca.com>;
>>  A  A 'Mikael'
>>  A  A  A <[5][13]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
>>  A  A  A Sent: Sun, Feb 22, 2015 12:56 pm
>>  A  A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
> suggestions
>>  A  A  A Terry -
>>  A  A  A I had a similar discussion off-line with a forum member
> when I
>>  A  A  A mentioned that I'd had 2 MSD boxes go bad in the 15 years
> I've
>>  been
>>  A  A  A running them. He mentioned that there were numerous cases of
>>  MSD
>>  A  A boxes
>>  A  A  A failing, and I've heard them as well.
>>  A  A  A What I don't have are facts or data with respect to failure
>>  rates. Do
>>  A  A  A we hear about MSD boxes failing because they are 4 times as
>>  popular
>>  A  A as
>>  A  A  A the nearest competitor and that's why we hear about them?
> If we
>>  only
>>  A  A  A base our opinions on "background noise" or reported issues
> on a
>>  A  A forum,
>>  A  A  A then Panteras are not terribly reliable, so we need to look
> for
>>  data.
>>  A  A  A Does anyone know if there are any objective studies
> regarding
>>  failure
>>  A  A  A rate per year, or miles, or something?
>>  A  A  A The previous box failed (I believe) because someone welded
> on
>>  the car
>>  A  A  A without disconnecting the unit, something we are warned not
> to
>>  do.
>>  A  A This
>>  A  A  A box I had no explanation. Happy to change units if there are
>>  A  A objective
>>  A  A  A facts that demonstrate that someone else has a better
> product.
>>  Any
>>  A  A  A thoughts?
>> 
>>    A  A  A From: Himes, Terry (397C)
>>    [[1]mailto:[6][14]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov]
>>    A  A  A Sent: domingo, 22 de febrero de 2015 21:35
>>    A  A  A To: Charles McCall; 'Andy May';
> [2][7][15]detomaso at poca.com;
>>    Mikael
>>    A  A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
>>    suggestions
>>    A  A  A Exactly why I don't run MSD.A  I have heard many many
>>    stories just
>>    A  A like
>>    A  A  A this.
>>    A  A  A (only my personal preference.A  no flames)
>>    A  A  A Thanks Charles for sharing.
>>    A  A  A "Sometimes I think the surest signs that intelligent life
>>    A  A  A  A exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has
>>    tried
>>    A  A  A  A to contact us!"
>>    A  A  A Terry W. HimesA  
> [cid:[3][8]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150]
>>    A  A  A JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
>>    A  A  A InSight Sequence Team Lead
>>    A  A  A Rosetta/MEX Sequence Team Lead
>>    A  A  A Phone: [16](818) 393-6261
>>    A  A  A Cell:A  A  [17](818) 653-8213
>>    A  A  A Fax:A  A  [18](818) 393-3147
>>    A  A  A [1][4][9][19]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>>    A  A  A d--od-,
>>    A  A  A From: Charles McCall
> <[2][5][10][20]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
>>    A  A  A Date: Sunday, February 22, 2015 6:38 AM
>>    A  A  A To: 'Andy May' <[3][6][11][21]andymay24 at gmail.com>,
>>    A  A "[4][7][12][22]detomaso at poca.com"
>>    A  A  A <[5][8][13][23]detomaso at poca.com>, Mikael
>>    A  A <[6][9][14][24]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
>> 
>>  A  A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
> suggestions
>>  A  A  A Hi all
>>  A  A  A Last fall, I commented that my engine wasn't running well.
>>  Symptoms
>>  A  A may
>>  A  A  A be found in the e-mail below, and consensus was that they
>>  sounded
>>  A  A carb
>>  A  A  A related, or perhaps timing related, and a number of people
>>  offered
>>  A  A  A suggestions. But the symptoms were sort of strange and
> didn't
>>  seem to
>>  A  A  A perfectly fit any of the theories as to the problem.
>>  A  A  A On a whim, over the winter I changed the MSD 6-AL electronic
>>  A  A ignition,
>>  A  A  A since I had a spare and since the last time it failed, it
> gave
>>  some
>>  A  A  A really weird symptoms; erratic and sporadic problems. I sent
>>  the box
>>  A  A to
>>  A  A  A MSD over Christmas for analysis and they confirmed that it
>>  failed
>>  A  A their
>>  A  A  A test and had some issues. OK, sounds promising but was that
> the
>>  cause
>>  A  A  A of my problems?
>>  A  A  A It's been a harsh and snowy winter, but it has rained all
> week,
>>  which
>>  A  A  A cleaned most of the salt from the roads. So I took the car
> out
>>  today.
>>  A  A  A I'll feel better after a longer trip, but the first
> impression
>>  is
>>  A  A very
>>  A  A  A positive. The hesitation and stumbling is gone, no starting
>>  problems,
>>  A  A  A and the car ran very very well. I'm cautiously saying that
> the
>>  A  A problem
>>  A  A  A has been fixed.
>>  A  A  A I wanted to leave for posterity the fact that when the MSD
> box
>>  fails,
>>  A  A  A it isn't always catastrophic. It would actually almost be
>>  preferable
>>  A  A if
>>  A  A  A it would, since I have a spare it and it would make the
> problem
>>  a
>>  A  A  A little more obvious. When they start to fail they get flaky
> -
>>  A  A symptoms
>>  A  A  A that come and go. Both times they have failed I have
> started by
>>  A  A  A inspecting from top to bottom my carb, since the symptoms
>>  pointed in
>>  A  A  A that direction. Have an engine problem that you can't
>>  eliminate? Try
>>  A  A  A looking at your electronic ignition if you have it - it can
>>  cause all
>>  A  A  A kinds of weird running issues.
>>  A  A  A Thanks to all who answered
>>  A  A  A  A  A Anyway, my engine is not happy. This morning in the
> hotel
>>  parking
>>  A  A  A lot I
>>  A  A  A  A  A really thought that we'd have to skip today's event
>>  because it
>>  A  A  A wouldn't
>>  A  A  A  A  A start and didn't sound like it was even thinking about
>>  starting.
>>  A  A  A Took
>>  A  A  A  A  A probably 5 minutes of crank-wait-crank-wait before it
>>  fired.
>>  A  A  A Yesterday
>>  A  A  A  A  A at the gas station it took 2-3 minutes to start,
>>  something that
>>  A  A has
>>  A  A  A  A  A never, ever happened before. It is really hard to
>>  describe the
>>  A  A  A problem
>>  A  A  A  A  A so much of it is "feel", but I'll do my best.
>>  A  A  A  A  A A few weeks ago I noticed that the engine would tend
> to
>>  stumble
>>  A  A if I
>>  A  A  A  A  A would floor the throttle, then clear its throat and
> pull.
>>  For
>>  A  A  A example,
>>  A  A  A  A  A I like to heel-and-toe, just because, and when
> blipping
>>  the
>>  A  A throttle
>>  A  A  A it
>>  A  A  A  A  A would stumble instead of rev. The engine also felt a
>>  little
>>  A  A rougher,
>>  A  A  A as
>>  A  A  A  A  A though it vibrated more than I remembered it. I don't
>>  remember if
>>  A  A  A this
>>  A  A  A  A  A was before or after I did a short tune-up, by
> adjusting
>>  the valve
>>  A  A  A lash
>>  A  A  A  A  A (I have mechanical lifters), and cleaning the K&N air
>>  filter by
>>  A  A  A  A  A applying K&N filter oil, etc. or if it is irrelevant.
> So
>>  I was
>>  A  A  A messing
>>  A  A  A  A  A around in the engine bay recently...
>>  A  A  A  A  A This weekend the engine felt considerably worse. It
> felt
>>  like it
>>  A  A  A would
>>  A  A  A  A  A stumble under partial throttle as well. It would
> stumble
>>  a little
>>  A  A  A bit
>>  A  A  A  A  A under trailing throttle going downhill as well, so I
>>  don't think
>>  A  A it
>>  A  A  A is
>>  A  A  A  A  A a clogged fuel filter.
>>  A  A  A  A  A Oil temp is perfect. Oil pressure is perfect. Water
> temp
>>  is
>>  A  A perfect.
>>  A  A  A  A  A The engine idles perfectly. But if you floor the gas
> from
>>  idle,
>>  A  A  A it'll
>>  A  A  A  A  A stall. The engine doesn't feel crisp, it feels bloated
>>  and soft,
>>  A  A if
>>  A  A  A  A  A that makes sense. It feels rough, and it feels like it
>>  A  A occasionally
>>  A  A  A  A  A stumbles under constant throttle at highway speed. It
>>  pulls hard
>>  A  A  A when
>>  A  A  A  A  A accelerating, but I don't think as hard as it used
> to, or
>>  as high
>>  A  A (I
>>  A  A  A  A  A have a 6500 rpm limiting chip in the MSD that it used
> to
>>  pull
>>  A  A very
>>  A  A  A  A  A easily to).
>>  A  A  A  A  A Suggestions for where to begin looking? And other info
>>  that would
>>  A  A  A help
>>  A  A  A  A  A in troubleshooting?
>>  A  A  A !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
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>>    A  A References
>>    A  A  A 1. [14]mailto:[19][29]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>>    A  A  A 2. [15]mailto:[20][30]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>>    A  A  A 3. [16]mailto:[21][31]andymay24 at gmail.com
>>    A  A  A 4. [17]mailto:[22][32]detomaso at poca.com
>>    A  A  A 5. [18]mailto:[23][33]detomaso at poca.com
>>    A  A  A 6. [19]mailto:[24][34]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>>    A  A  A 7. [20]mailto:[25][35]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>    A  A  A 8.
>>    [21][26][36]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>    A  A  A 9. [22]mailto:[27][37]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>    A  A  A 10.
>>    [23][28][38]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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>>    A  A  A 1. mailto:[31][41]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov?
>>    A  A  A 2. mailto:[32][42]detomaso at poca.com
>>    A  A  A 3. mailto:[33]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
>>    A  A  A 4. mailto:[34][43]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>>    A  A  A 5. mailto:[35][44]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>>    A  A  A 6. mailto:[36][45]andymay24 at gmail.com
>>    A  A  A 7. mailto:[37][46]detomaso at poca.com
>>    A  A  A 8. mailto:[38][47]detomaso at poca.com
>>    A  A  A 9. mailto:[39][48]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>>    A  A  A 10. mailto:[40][49]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>    A  A  A 11.
>>    [41][50]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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>>    A  A  A 13.
>>    [43][52]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>    A  A  A 14. mailto:[44][53]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov?
>>    A  A  A 15. mailto:[45][54]charlesmccall at gmail.com?
>>    A  A  A 16. mailto:[46][55]andymay24 at gmail.com?
>>    A  A  A 17. mailto:[47][56]detomaso at poca.com?
>>    A  A  A 18. mailto:[48][57]detomaso at poca.com?
>>    A  A  A 19. mailto:[49][58]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk?
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>>    A  A 3. mailto:[69]andymay24 at gmail.com
>>    A  A 4. mailto:[70]detomaso at poca.com
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>>    A  A 6. mailto:[72]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
>>    A  A 7. mailto:[73]detomaso at poca.com
>>    A  A 8. mailto:[74]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
>>    A  A 9. mailto:[75]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>>    A  10. mailto:[76]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>>    A  11. mailto:[77]andymay24 at gmail.com
>>    A  12. mailto:[78]detomaso at poca.com
>>    A  13. mailto:[79]detomaso at poca.com
>>    A  14. mailto:[80]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>>    A  15. mailto:[81]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>    A  16. [82]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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>>    A  18. [84]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>    A  19. mailto:[85]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>>    A  20. mailto:[86]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>>    A  21. mailto:[87]andymay24 at gmail.com
>>    A  22. mailto:[88]detomaso at poca.com
>>    A  23. mailto:[89]detomaso at poca.com
>>    A  24. mailto:[90]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>>    A  25. mailto:[91]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>    A  26. [92]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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>>    A  28. [94]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>    A  29. mailto:[95]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>    A  30. [96]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>    A  31. mailto:[97]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
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>>    A  34. mailto:[100]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>>    A  35. mailto:[101]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>>    A  36. mailto:[102]andymay24 at gmail.com
>>    A  37. mailto:[103]detomaso at poca.com
>>    A  38. mailto:[104]detomaso at poca.com
>>    A  39. mailto:[105]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
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>>    [124]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>    [125]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>    To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>    etc.) use the links above.
>> 
>> References
>> 
>>  1. http://www.ebay.com/itm/141426581678
>>  2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>>  3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>>  4. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>>  5. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
>>  6. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>>  7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>>  8. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>>  9. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 10. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 11. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>> 12. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 13. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>> 14. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 15. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 16. tel:%28818%29%20393-6261
>> 17. tel:%28818%29%20653-8213
>> 18. tel:%28818%29%20393-3147
>> 19. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 20. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 21. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>> 22. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 24. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>> 25. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 26. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 29. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 30. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 31. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>> 32. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 33. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 34. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>> 35. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 36. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 37. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 38. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 39. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 40. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 41. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 42. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 43. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 44. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 45. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>> 46. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 47. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 48. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>> 49. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 50. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 51. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 52. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 53. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 54. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 55. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>> 56. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 57. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 58. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>> 59. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 60. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 61. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 62. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 63. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 64. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 65. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 66. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 67. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 68. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 69. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>> 70. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 71. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>> 72. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 73. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 74. mailto:image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
>> 75. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 76. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 77. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>> 78. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 79. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 80. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>> 81. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 82. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 83. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 84. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 85. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 86. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 87. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>> 88. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 89. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 90. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>> 91. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 92. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 93. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 94. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 95. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 96. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 97. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 98. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 99. mailto:image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
>> 100. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 101. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 102. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>> 103. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 104. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 105. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>> 106. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 107. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 108. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 109. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 110. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 111. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 112. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>> 113. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 114. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 115. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>> 116. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 117. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 118. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 119. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 120. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 121. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 122. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 123. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 124. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 125. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> _______________________________________________
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>> use the links above.
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