[DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions

Richard Greenblum Richard at richardgreenblum.com
Mon Feb 23 11:13:24 EST 2015


It's funny how different everyone's experiences are.  I've had a Mallory
Unilite/HiFire system on my Pantera for more than 15years with no problems.
I don't turn more than 5,500 RPM.  I put one on a boat I had back in the 80s
(Commander Marine converted 351 Windsor with single-point distributor) and
that one never failed either.  The boat at WOT wouldn't turn more than 4,400
or maybe a screaming 4,500 RPM.

Richard
Austin, TX
#7080


From:  Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
Date:  Monday, February 23, 2015 9:23 AM
To:  Don Thomas <don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com>, Ken Green
<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Cc:  deTomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>, "mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk"
<mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
Subject:  Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions

I had 2 Mallory HiFire digital 6 boxes fail - in 2 separate cars, my 67
Mustang and my Pantera.

I had an 84 Mustang 2.3L turbo that got hot and the TFI unit on the side
of the distributor failed.  I replaced it, and the replacement was bad
too.  So, we replaced it again, and the 2nd replacement was good.

I've run MSD 6AL on 3 cars now, and so far they haven't failed.

I like the MSD (or similar box) because a) they sometimes come with start
retard, b) they seem to run better where I spend the most time - below
4,000 rpm and c) they have a built-in rev limiter.

I would gladly switch to another box that has a better reputation, but I
don't know of any.
--
Will





On 2/23/15 10:12 AM, "Don Thomas" <don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com> wrote:

>    Here is one redundant system on e-bay.
>    [1]http://www.ebay.com/itm/141426581678
> 
>    On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Ken Green via DeTomaso
>    <[2]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> 
>      A  A Has anyone compared the failure rate on MSD ignitions to the
>      location?
>      A  A Maybe in a hot Pantera engine compartment, the life is
>      reduced.A  A lot
>      A  A of professional racers use (or at least used to use in the
>      A  A past) redundant MSD ignition systems that let them switch at
>      any
>      A  A moment.A  I assume if there was something as good or better,
>      they would
>      A  A use it.
>      A  A Ken
>      A  A
>      A __________________________________________________________________
>      A  A From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso at poca.com>
>      A  A To: [4]charlesmccall at gmail.com; [5]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov;
>      A  A [6]andymay24 at gmail.com; [7]detomaso at poca.com;
>      [8]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>      A  A Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 1:42 PM
>      A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
>      A  A  A There are tens or hundreds of millions of cars running
>      around with
>      A  A  A electronic ignition systems with a failure rate of
>      essentially zero.
>      A  A  A If the rate for MSDs is even 1% per year it is probably 100-
>      1000
>      A  A times
>      A  A  A higher than the other systems.
>      A  A  A Why would anyone use one?A  Doesn't it revert to single
>      spark mode at
>      A  A  A like 4K anyway?A  What is the point?'
>      A  A  A Jim Oddie
>      A  A  A -----Original Message-----
> 
>    A  A  A From: Charles McCall <[1][9]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
>    A  A  A To: 'Himes, Terry (397C)' (397C)'
>    <[2][10]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>;
>    A  A 'Andy
>    A  A  A May' <[3][11]andymay24 at gmail.com>; detomaso
>    <[4][12]detomaso at poca.com>;
>    A  A 'Mikael'
>    A  A  A <[5][13]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
>    A  A  A Sent: Sun, Feb 22, 2015 12:56 pm
>    A  A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
>    A  A  A Terry -
>    A  A  A I had a similar discussion off-line with a forum member when I
>    A  A  A mentioned that I'd had 2 MSD boxes go bad in the 15 years I've
>    been
>    A  A  A running them. He mentioned that there were numerous cases of
>    MSD
>    A  A boxes
>    A  A  A failing, and I've heard them as well.
>    A  A  A What I don't have are facts or data with respect to failure
>    rates. Do
>    A  A  A we hear about MSD boxes failing because they are 4 times as
>    popular
>    A  A as
>    A  A  A the nearest competitor and that's why we hear about them? If we
>    only
>    A  A  A base our opinions on "background noise" or reported issues on a
>    A  A forum,
>    A  A  A then Panteras are not terribly reliable, so we need to look for
>    data.
>    A  A  A Does anyone know if there are any objective studies regarding
>    failure
>    A  A  A rate per year, or miles, or something?
>    A  A  A The previous box failed (I believe) because someone welded on
>    the car
>    A  A  A without disconnecting the unit, something we are warned not to
>    do.
>    A  A This
>    A  A  A box I had no explanation. Happy to change units if there are
>    A  A objective
>    A  A  A facts that demonstrate that someone else has a better product.
>    Any
>    A  A  A thoughts?
> 
>      A  A  A From: Himes, Terry (397C)
>      [[1]mailto:[6][14]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov]
>      A  A  A Sent: domingo, 22 de febrero de 2015 21:35
>      A  A  A To: Charles McCall; 'Andy May'; [2][7][15]detomaso at poca.com;
>      Mikael
>      A  A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
>      suggestions
>      A  A  A Exactly why I don't run MSD.A  I have heard many many
>      stories just
>      A  A like
>      A  A  A this.
>      A  A  A (only my personal preference.A  no flames)
>      A  A  A Thanks Charles for sharing.
>      A  A  A "Sometimes I think the surest signs that intelligent life
>      A  A  A  A exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has
>      tried
>      A  A  A  A to contact us!"
>      A  A  A Terry W. HimesA  [cid:[3][8]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150]
>      A  A  A JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
>      A  A  A InSight Sequence Team Lead
>      A  A  A Rosetta/MEX Sequence Team Lead
>      A  A  A Phone: [16](818) 393-6261
>      A  A  A Cell:A  A  [17](818) 653-8213
>      A  A  A Fax:A  A  [18](818) 393-3147
>      A  A  A [1][4][9][19]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>      A  A  A d--od-,
>      A  A  A From: Charles McCall <[2][5][10][20]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
>      A  A  A Date: Sunday, February 22, 2015 6:38 AM
>      A  A  A To: 'Andy May' <[3][6][11][21]andymay24 at gmail.com>,
>      A  A "[4][7][12][22]detomaso at poca.com"
>      A  A  A <[5][8][13][23]detomaso at poca.com>, Mikael
>      A  A <[6][9][14][24]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
> 
>    A  A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
>    A  A  A Hi all
>    A  A  A Last fall, I commented that my engine wasn't running well.
>    Symptoms
>    A  A may
>    A  A  A be found in the e-mail below, and consensus was that they
>    sounded
>    A  A carb
>    A  A  A related, or perhaps timing related, and a number of people
>    offered
>    A  A  A suggestions. But the symptoms were sort of strange and didn't
>    seem to
>    A  A  A perfectly fit any of the theories as to the problem.
>    A  A  A On a whim, over the winter I changed the MSD 6-AL electronic
>    A  A ignition,
>    A  A  A since I had a spare and since the last time it failed, it gave
>    some
>    A  A  A really weird symptoms; erratic and sporadic problems. I sent
>    the box
>    A  A to
>    A  A  A MSD over Christmas for analysis and they confirmed that it
>    failed
>    A  A their
>    A  A  A test and had some issues. OK, sounds promising but was that the
>    cause
>    A  A  A of my problems?
>    A  A  A It's been a harsh and snowy winter, but it has rained all week,
>    which
>    A  A  A cleaned most of the salt from the roads. So I took the car out
>    today.
>    A  A  A I'll feel better after a longer trip, but the first impression
>    is
>    A  A very
>    A  A  A positive. The hesitation and stumbling is gone, no starting
>    problems,
>    A  A  A and the car ran very very well. I'm cautiously saying that the
>    A  A problem
>    A  A  A has been fixed.
>    A  A  A I wanted to leave for posterity the fact that when the MSD box
>    fails,
>    A  A  A it isn't always catastrophic. It would actually almost be
>    preferable
>    A  A if
>    A  A  A it would, since I have a spare it and it would make the problem
>    a
>    A  A  A little more obvious. When they start to fail they get flaky -
>    A  A symptoms
>    A  A  A that come and go. Both times they have failed I have started by
>    A  A  A inspecting from top to bottom my carb, since the symptoms
>    pointed in
>    A  A  A that direction. Have an engine problem that you can't
>    eliminate? Try
>    A  A  A looking at your electronic ignition if you have it - it can
>    cause all
>    A  A  A kinds of weird running issues.
>    A  A  A Thanks to all who answered
>    A  A  A  A  A Anyway, my engine is not happy. This morning in the hotel
>    parking
>    A  A  A lot I
>    A  A  A  A  A really thought that we'd have to skip today's event
>    because it
>    A  A  A wouldn't
>    A  A  A  A  A start and didn't sound like it was even thinking about
>    starting.
>    A  A  A Took
>    A  A  A  A  A probably 5 minutes of crank-wait-crank-wait before it
>    fired.
>    A  A  A Yesterday
>    A  A  A  A  A at the gas station it took 2-3 minutes to start,
>    something that
>    A  A has
>    A  A  A  A  A never, ever happened before. It is really hard to
>    describe the
>    A  A  A problem
>    A  A  A  A  A so much of it is "feel", but I'll do my best.
>    A  A  A  A  A A few weeks ago I noticed that the engine would tend to
>    stumble
>    A  A if I
>    A  A  A  A  A would floor the throttle, then clear its throat and pull.
>    For
>    A  A  A example,
>    A  A  A  A  A I like to heel-and-toe, just because, and when blipping
>    the
>    A  A throttle
>    A  A  A it
>    A  A  A  A  A would stumble instead of rev. The engine also felt a
>    little
>    A  A rougher,
>    A  A  A as
>    A  A  A  A  A though it vibrated more than I remembered it. I don't
>    remember if
>    A  A  A this
>    A  A  A  A  A was before or after I did a short tune-up, by adjusting
>    the valve
>    A  A  A lash
>    A  A  A  A  A (I have mechanical lifters), and cleaning the K&N air
>    filter by
>    A  A  A  A  A applying K&N filter oil, etc. or if it is irrelevant. So
>    I was
>    A  A  A messing
>    A  A  A  A  A around in the engine bay recently...
>    A  A  A  A  A This weekend the engine felt considerably worse. It felt
>    like it
>    A  A  A would
>    A  A  A  A  A stumble under partial throttle as well. It would stumble
>    a little
>    A  A  A bit
>    A  A  A  A  A under trailing throttle going downhill as well, so I
>    don't think
>    A  A it
>    A  A  A is
>    A  A  A  A  A a clogged fuel filter.
>    A  A  A  A  A Oil temp is perfect. Oil pressure is perfect. Water temp
>    is
>    A  A perfect.
>    A  A  A  A  A The engine idles perfectly. But if you floor the gas from
>    idle,
>    A  A  A it'll
>    A  A  A  A  A stall. The engine doesn't feel crisp, it feels bloated
>    and soft,
>    A  A if
>    A  A  A  A  A that makes sense. It feels rough, and it feels like it
>    A  A occasionally
>    A  A  A  A  A stumbles under constant throttle at highway speed. It
>    pulls hard
>    A  A  A when
>    A  A  A  A  A accelerating, but I don't think as hard as it used to, or
>    as high
>    A  A (I
>    A  A  A  A  A have a 6500 rpm limiting chip in the MSD that it used to
>    pull
>    A  A very
>    A  A  A  A  A easily to).
>    A  A  A  A  A Suggestions for where to begin looking? And other info
>    that would
>    A  A  A help
>    A  A  A  A  A in troubleshooting?
>    A  A  A !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
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>      A  A References
>      A  A  A 1. [14]mailto:[19][29]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>      A  A  A 2. [15]mailto:[20][30]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>      A  A  A 3. [16]mailto:[21][31]andymay24 at gmail.com
>      A  A  A 4. [17]mailto:[22][32]detomaso at poca.com
>      A  A  A 5. [18]mailto:[23][33]detomaso at poca.com
>      A  A  A 6. [19]mailto:[24][34]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>      A  A  A 7. [20]mailto:[25][35]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      A  A  A 8.
>      [21][26][36]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>      A  A  A 9. [22]mailto:[27][37]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      A  A  A 10.
>      [23][28][38]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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>      A  A References
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>      A  A  A 2. mailto:[32][42]detomaso at poca.com
>      A  A  A 3. mailto:[33]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
>      A  A  A 4. mailto:[34][43]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>      A  A  A 5. mailto:[35][44]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>      A  A  A 6. mailto:[36][45]andymay24 at gmail.com
>      A  A  A 7. mailto:[37][46]detomaso at poca.com
>      A  A  A 8. mailto:[38][47]detomaso at poca.com
>      A  A  A 9. mailto:[39][48]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>      A  A  A 10. mailto:[40][49]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      A  A  A 11.
>      [41][50]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>      A  A  A 12. mailto:[42][51]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      A  A  A 13.
>      [43][52]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>      A  A  A 14. mailto:[44][53]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov?
>      A  A  A 15. mailto:[45][54]charlesmccall at gmail.com?
>      A  A  A 16. mailto:[46][55]andymay24 at gmail.com?
>      A  A  A 17. mailto:[47][56]detomaso at poca.com?
>      A  A  A 18. mailto:[48][57]detomaso at poca.com?
>      A  A  A 19. mailto:[49][58]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk?
>      A  A  A 20. mailto:[50][59]DeTomaso at poca.com?
>      A  A  A 21.
>      [51][60]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>      A  A  A 22. mailto:[52][61]DeTomaso at poca.com?
>      A  A  A 23.
>      [53][62]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>      A  A  A 24. mailto:[54][63]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      A  A  A 25.
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>      A  A 3. mailto:[69]andymay24 at gmail.com
>      A  A 4. mailto:[70]detomaso at poca.com
>      A  A 5. mailto:[71]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>      A  A 6. mailto:[72]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
>      A  A 7. mailto:[73]detomaso at poca.com
>      A  A 8. mailto:[74]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
>      A  A 9. mailto:[75]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>      A  10. mailto:[76]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>      A  11. mailto:[77]andymay24 at gmail.com
>      A  12. mailto:[78]detomaso at poca.com
>      A  13. mailto:[79]detomaso at poca.com
>      A  14. mailto:[80]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>      A  15. mailto:[81]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      A  16. [82]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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>      A  18. [84]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>      A  19. mailto:[85]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>      A  20. mailto:[86]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>      A  21. mailto:[87]andymay24 at gmail.com
>      A  22. mailto:[88]detomaso at poca.com
>      A  23. mailto:[89]detomaso at poca.com
>      A  24. mailto:[90]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>      A  25. mailto:[91]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      A  26. [92]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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>      A  28. [94]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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>      A  35. mailto:[101]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>      A  36. mailto:[102]andymay24 at gmail.com
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>      A  39. mailto:[105]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
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>      A  49. mailto:[115]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
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>    4. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>    5. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
>    6. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>    7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>    8. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>    9. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>   10. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
>   11. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>   12. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   13. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>   14. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
>   15. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   16. tel:%28818%29%20393-6261
>   17. tel:%28818%29%20653-8213
>   18. tel:%28818%29%20393-3147
>   19. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>   20. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>   21. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
>   22. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   24. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>   25. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   26. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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>   45. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
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>   48. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
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-------------- next part --------------
   It's funny how different everyone's experiences are.  I've had a
   Mallory Unilite/HiFire system on my Pantera for more than 15years with
   no problems.  I don't turn more than 5,500 RPM.  I put one on a boat I
   had back in the 80s (Commander Marine converted 351 Windsor with
   single-point distributor) and that one never failed either.  The boat
   at WOT wouldn't turn more than 4,400 or maybe a screaming 4,500 RPM.
   Richard
   Austin, TX
   #7080

   From: Will Kooiman <[1]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
   Date: Monday, February 23, 2015 9:23 AM
   To: Don Thomas <[2]don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com>, Ken Green
   <[3]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
   Cc: deTomaso List <[4]detomaso at poca.com>, "[5]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk"
   <[6]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions

   I had 2 Mallory HiFire digital 6 boxes fail - in 2 separate cars, my 67
   Mustang and my Pantera.
   I had an 84 Mustang 2.3L turbo that got hot and the TFI unit on the
   side
   of the distributor failed.  I replaced it, and the replacement was bad
   too.  So, we replaced it again, and the 2nd replacement was good.
   I've run MSD 6AL on 3 cars now, and so far they haven't failed.
   I like the MSD (or similar box) because a) they sometimes come with
   start
   retard, b) they seem to run better where I spend the most time - below
   4,000 rpm and c) they have a built-in rev limiter.
   I would gladly switch to another box that has a better reputation, but
   I
   don't know of any.
   --
   Will
   On 2/23/15 10:12 AM, "Don Thomas" <[7]don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com> wrote:

      Here is one redundant system on e-bay.

      [1][8]http://www.ebay.com/itm/141426581678

      On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Ken Green via DeTomaso

      <[2][9]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:

        A  A Has anyone compared the failure rate on MSD ignitions to the

        location?

        A  A Maybe in a hot Pantera engine compartment, the life is

        reduced.A  A lot

        A  A of professional racers use (or at least used to use in the

        A  A past) redundant MSD ignition systems that let them switch at

        any

        A  A moment.A  I assume if there was something as good or better,

        they would

        A  A use it.

        A  A Ken

        A  A

        A
   __________________________________________________________________

        A  A From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <[3][10]detomaso at poca.com>

        A  A To: [4][11]charlesmccall at gmail.com;
   [5][12]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov;

        A  A [6][13]andymay24 at gmail.com; [7][14]detomaso at poca.com;

        [8][15]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

        A  A Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 1:42 PM

        A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
   suggestions

        A  A  A There are tens or hundreds of millions of cars running

        around with

        A  A  A electronic ignition systems with a failure rate of

        essentially zero.

        A  A  A If the rate for MSDs is even 1% per year it is probably
   100-

        1000

        A  A times

        A  A  A higher than the other systems.

        A  A  A Why would anyone use one?A  Doesn't it revert to single

        spark mode at

        A  A  A like 4K anyway?A  What is the point?'

        A  A  A Jim Oddie

        A  A  A -----Original Message-----

      A  A  A From: Charles McCall <[1][9][16]charlesmccall at gmail.com>

      A  A  A To: 'Himes, Terry (397C)' (397C)'

      <[2][10][17]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>;

      A  A 'Andy

      A  A  A May' <[3][11][18]andymay24 at gmail.com>; detomaso

      <[4][12][19]detomaso at poca.com>;

      A  A 'Mikael'

      A  A  A <[5][13][20]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>

      A  A  A Sent: Sun, Feb 22, 2015 12:56 pm

      A  A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
   suggestions

      A  A  A Terry -

      A  A  A I had a similar discussion off-line with a forum member when
   I

      A  A  A mentioned that I'd had 2 MSD boxes go bad in the 15 years
   I've

      been

      A  A  A running them. He mentioned that there were numerous cases of

      MSD

      A  A boxes

      A  A  A failing, and I've heard them as well.

      A  A  A What I don't have are facts or data with respect to failure

      rates. Do

      A  A  A we hear about MSD boxes failing because they are 4 times as

      popular

      A  A as

      A  A  A the nearest competitor and that's why we hear about them? If
   we

      only

      A  A  A base our opinions on "background noise" or reported issues
   on a

      A  A forum,

      A  A  A then Panteras are not terribly reliable, so we need to look
   for

      data.

      A  A  A Does anyone know if there are any objective studies
   regarding

      failure

      A  A  A rate per year, or miles, or something?

      A  A  A The previous box failed (I believe) because someone welded
   on

      the car

      A  A  A without disconnecting the unit, something we are warned not
   to

      do.

      A  A This

      A  A  A box I had no explanation. Happy to change units if there are

      A  A objective

      A  A  A facts that demonstrate that someone else has a better
   product.

      Any

      A  A  A thoughts?

        A  A  A From: Himes, Terry (397C)

        [[1][21]mailto:[6][14]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov]

        A  A  A Sent: domingo, 22 de febrero de 2015 21:35

        A  A  A To: Charles McCall; 'Andy May';
   [2][7][15][22]detomaso at poca.com;

        Mikael

        A  A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for

        suggestions

        A  A  A Exactly why I don't run MSD.A  I have heard many many

        stories just

        A  A like

        A  A  A this.

        A  A  A (only my personal preference.A  no flames)

        A  A  A Thanks Charles for sharing.

        A  A  A "Sometimes I think the surest signs that intelligent life

        A  A  A  A exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has

        tried

        A  A  A  A to contact us!"

        A  A  A Terry W.
   HimesA  [cid:[3][8][23]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150]

        A  A  A JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory

        A  A  A InSight Sequence Team Lead

        A  A  A Rosetta/MEX Sequence Team Lead

        A  A  A Phone: [16](818) 393-6261

        A  A  A Cell:A  A  [17](818) 653-8213

        A  A  A Fax:A  A  [18](818) 393-3147

        A  A  A [1][4][9][19][24]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

        A  A  A d--od-,

        A  A  A From: Charles McCall
   <[2][5][10][20][25]charlesmccall at gmail.com>

        A  A  A Date: Sunday, February 22, 2015 6:38 AM

        A  A  A To: 'Andy May' <[3][6][11][21][26]andymay24 at gmail.com>,

        A  A "[4][7][12][22][27]detomaso at poca.com"

        A  A  A <[5][8][13][23][28]detomaso at poca.com>, Mikael

        A  A <[6][9][14][24][29]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>

      A  A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
   suggestions

      A  A  A Hi all

      A  A  A Last fall, I commented that my engine wasn't running well.

      Symptoms

      A  A may

      A  A  A be found in the e-mail below, and consensus was that they

      sounded

      A  A carb

      A  A  A related, or perhaps timing related, and a number of people

      offered

      A  A  A suggestions. But the symptoms were sort of strange and
   didn't

      seem to

      A  A  A perfectly fit any of the theories as to the problem.

      A  A  A On a whim, over the winter I changed the MSD 6-AL electronic

      A  A ignition,

      A  A  A since I had a spare and since the last time it failed, it
   gave

      some

      A  A  A really weird symptoms; erratic and sporadic problems. I sent

      the box

      A  A to

      A  A  A MSD over Christmas for analysis and they confirmed that it

      failed

      A  A their

      A  A  A test and had some issues. OK, sounds promising but was that
   the

      cause

      A  A  A of my problems?

      A  A  A It's been a harsh and snowy winter, but it has rained all
   week,

      which

      A  A  A cleaned most of the salt from the roads. So I took the car
   out

      today.

      A  A  A I'll feel better after a longer trip, but the first
   impression

      is

      A  A very

      A  A  A positive. The hesitation and stumbling is gone, no starting

      problems,

      A  A  A and the car ran very very well. I'm cautiously saying that
   the

      A  A problem

      A  A  A has been fixed.

      A  A  A I wanted to leave for posterity the fact that when the MSD
   box

      fails,

      A  A  A it isn't always catastrophic. It would actually almost be

      preferable

      A  A if

      A  A  A it would, since I have a spare it and it would make the
   problem

      a

      A  A  A little more obvious. When they start to fail they get flaky
   -

      A  A symptoms

      A  A  A that come and go. Both times they have failed I have started
   by

      A  A  A inspecting from top to bottom my carb, since the symptoms

      pointed in

      A  A  A that direction. Have an engine problem that you can't

      eliminate? Try

      A  A  A looking at your electronic ignition if you have it - it can

      cause all

      A  A  A kinds of weird running issues.

      A  A  A Thanks to all who answered

      A  A  A  A  A Anyway, my engine is not happy. This morning in the
   hotel

      parking

      A  A  A lot I

      A  A  A  A  A really thought that we'd have to skip today's event

      because it

      A  A  A wouldn't

      A  A  A  A  A start and didn't sound like it was even thinking about

      starting.

      A  A  A Took

      A  A  A  A  A probably 5 minutes of crank-wait-crank-wait before it

      fired.

      A  A  A Yesterday

      A  A  A  A  A at the gas station it took 2-3 minutes to start,

      something that

      A  A has

      A  A  A  A  A never, ever happened before. It is really hard to

      describe the

      A  A  A problem

      A  A  A  A  A so much of it is "feel", but I'll do my best.

      A  A  A  A  A A few weeks ago I noticed that the engine would tend
   to

      stumble

      A  A if I

      A  A  A  A  A would floor the throttle, then clear its throat and
   pull.

      For

      A  A  A example,

      A  A  A  A  A I like to heel-and-toe, just because, and when
   blipping

      the

      A  A throttle

      A  A  A it

      A  A  A  A  A would stumble instead of rev. The engine also felt a

      little

      A  A rougher,

      A  A  A as

      A  A  A  A  A though it vibrated more than I remembered it. I don't

      remember if

      A  A  A this

      A  A  A  A  A was before or after I did a short tune-up, by
   adjusting

      the valve

      A  A  A lash

      A  A  A  A  A (I have mechanical lifters), and cleaning the K&N air

      filter by

      A  A  A  A  A applying K&N filter oil, etc. or if it is irrelevant.
   So

      I was

      A  A  A messing

      A  A  A  A  A around in the engine bay recently...

      A  A  A  A  A This weekend the engine felt considerably worse. It
   felt

      like it

      A  A  A would

      A  A  A  A  A stumble under partial throttle as well. It would
   stumble

      a little

      A  A  A bit

      A  A  A  A  A under trailing throttle going downhill as well, so I

      don't think

      A  A it

      A  A  A is

      A  A  A  A  A a clogged fuel filter.

      A  A  A  A  A Oil temp is perfect. Oil pressure is perfect. Water
   temp

      is

      A  A perfect.

      A  A  A  A  A The engine idles perfectly. But if you floor the gas
   from

      idle,

      A  A  A it'll

      A  A  A  A  A stall. The engine doesn't feel crisp, it feels bloated

      and soft,

      A  A if

      A  A  A  A  A that makes sense. It feels rough, and it feels like it

      A  A occasionally

      A  A  A  A  A stumbles under constant throttle at highway speed. It

      pulls hard

      A  A  A when

      A  A  A  A  A accelerating, but I don't think as hard as it used to,
   or

      as high

      A  A (I

      A  A  A  A  A have a 6500 rpm limiting chip in the MSD that it used
   to

      pull

      A  A very

      A  A  A  A  A easily to).

      A  A  A  A  A Suggestions for where to begin looking? And other info

      that would

      A  A  A help

      A  A  A  A  A in troubleshooting?

      A  A  A !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!

      A  A  A _______________________________________________

      A  A  A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

      A  A  A DeTomaso mailing list

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        A  A

        A
   [8][11][16][26][31]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  A  A !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!

        A  A  A _______________________________________________

        A  A  A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

        A  A  A DeTomaso mailing list

        A  A  A [9][12][17][27][32]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  A

        A
   [10][13][18][28][33]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  A References

        A  A  A 1. [14][34]mailto:[19][29]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

        A  A  A 2. [15][35]mailto:[20][30]charlesmccall at gmail.com

        A  A  A 3. [16][36]mailto:[21][31]andymay24 at gmail.com

        A  A  A 4. [17][37]mailto:[22][32]detomaso at poca.com

        A  A  A 5. [18][38]mailto:[23][33]detomaso at poca.com

        A  A  A 6. [19][39]mailto:[24][34]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

        A  A  A 7. [20][40]mailto:[25][35]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  A  A 8.

        [21][26][36][41]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  A  A 9. [22][42]mailto:[27][37]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  A  A 10.

        [23][28][38][43]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  A _______________________________________________

        A  A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

        A  A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes

        A  A DeTomaso mailing list

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        A  A To manage your subscription (change email address,
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        A  A use the

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        A  A References

        A  A  A 1. [46]mailto:[31][41]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov?

        A  A  A 2. [47]mailto:[32][42]detomaso at poca.com

        A  A  A 3. [48]mailto:[33]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150

        A  A  A 4. [49]mailto:[34][43]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

        A  A  A 5. [50]mailto:[35][44]charlesmccall at gmail.com

        A  A  A 6. [51]mailto:[36][45]andymay24 at gmail.com

        A  A  A 7. [52]mailto:[37][46]detomaso at poca.com

        A  A  A 8. [53]mailto:[38][47]detomaso at poca.com

        A  A  A 9. [54]mailto:[39][48]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

        A  A  A 10. [55]mailto:[40][49]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  A  A 11.

        [41][50][56]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  A  A 12. [57]mailto:[42][51]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  A  A 13.

        [43][52][58]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  A  A 14. [59]mailto:[44][53]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov?

        A  A  A 15. [60]mailto:[45][54]charlesmccall at gmail.com?

        A  A  A 16. [61]mailto:[46][55]andymay24 at gmail.com?

        A  A  A 17. [62]mailto:[47][56]detomaso at poca.com?

        A  A  A 18. [63]mailto:[48][57]detomaso at poca.com?

        A  A  A 19. [64]mailto:[49][58]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk?

        A  A  A 20. [65]mailto:[50][59]DeTomaso at poca.com?

        A  A  A 21.

        [51][60][66]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  A  A 22. [67]mailto:[52][61]DeTomaso at poca.com?

        A  A  A 23.

        [53][62][68]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  A  A 24. [69]mailto:[54][63]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  A  A 25.

        [55][64][70]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  A _______________________________________________

        A  A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

        A  A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes

        A  A DeTomaso mailing list

        A  A [56][65][71]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  A
   [57][66][72]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  A To manage your subscription (change email address,
   unsubscribe,

        etc.)

        A  A use the links above.

        References

        A  A 1. [73]mailto:[67]charlesmccall at gmail.com

        A  A 2. [74]mailto:[68]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov

        A  A 3. [75]mailto:[69]andymay24 at gmail.com

        A  A 4. [76]mailto:[70]detomaso at poca.com

        A  A 5. [77]mailto:[71]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

        A  A 6. [78]mailto:[72]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov

        A  A 7. [79]mailto:[73]detomaso at poca.com

        A  A 8. [80]mailto:[74]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150

        A  A 9. [81]mailto:[75]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

        A  10. [82]mailto:[76]charlesmccall at gmail.com

        A  11. [83]mailto:[77]andymay24 at gmail.com

        A  12. [84]mailto:[78]detomaso at poca.com

        A  13. [85]mailto:[79]detomaso at poca.com

        A  14. [86]mailto:[80]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

        A  15. [87]mailto:[81]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  16. [82][88]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  17. [89]mailto:[83]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  18. [84][90]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  19. [91]mailto:[85]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

        A  20. [92]mailto:[86]charlesmccall at gmail.com

        A  21. [93]mailto:[87]andymay24 at gmail.com

        A  22. [94]mailto:[88]detomaso at poca.com

        A  23. [95]mailto:[89]detomaso at poca.com

        A  24. [96]mailto:[90]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

        A  25. [97]mailto:[91]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  26. [92][98]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  27. [99]mailto:[93]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  28. [94][100]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  29. [101]mailto:[95]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  30. [96][102]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  31. [103]mailto:[97]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov

        A  32. [104]mailto:[98]detomaso at poca.com

        A  33. [105]mailto:[99]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150

        A  34. [106]mailto:[100]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

        A  35. [107]mailto:[101]charlesmccall at gmail.com

        A  36. [108]mailto:[102]andymay24 at gmail.com

        A  37. [109]mailto:[103]detomaso at poca.com

        A  38. [110]mailto:[104]detomaso at poca.com

        A  39. [111]mailto:[105]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

        A  40. [112]mailto:[106]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  41.
   [107][113]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  42. [114]mailto:[108]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  43.
   [109][115]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  44. [116]mailto:[110]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

        A  45. [117]mailto:[111]charlesmccall at gmail.com

        A  46. [118]mailto:[112]andymay24 at gmail.com

        A  47. [119]mailto:[113]detomaso at poca.com

        A  48. [120]mailto:[114]detomaso at poca.com

        A  49. [121]mailto:[115]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

        A  50. [122]mailto:[116]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  51.
   [117][123]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  52. [124]mailto:[118]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  53.
   [119][125]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  54. [126]mailto:[120]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  55.
   [121][127]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        A  56. [128]mailto:[122]DeTomaso at poca.com

        A  57.
   [123][129]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        _______________________________________________

        Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

        Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes

        DeTomaso mailing list

        [124][130]DeTomaso at poca.com

        [125][131]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

        To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,

        etc.) use the links above.

   References

      1. [132]http://www.ebay.com/itm/141426581678

      2. [133]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

      3. [134]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

      4. [135]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com

      5. [136]mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov

      6. [137]mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com

      7. [138]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

      8. [139]mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

      9. [140]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com

     10. [141]mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov

     11. [142]mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com

     12. [143]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     13. [144]mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

     14. [145]mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov

     15. [146]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     16. tel:%28818%29%20393-6261

     17. tel:%28818%29%20653-8213

     18. tel:%28818%29%20393-3147

     19. [147]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

     20. [148]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com

     21. [149]mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com

     22. [150]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     23. [151]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     24. [152]mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

     25. [153]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     26. [154]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     27. [155]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     28. [156]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     29. [157]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

     30. [158]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com

     31. [159]mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com

     32. [160]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     33. [161]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     34. [162]mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

     35. [163]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     36. [164]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     37. [165]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     38. [166]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     39. [167]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     40. [168]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     41. [169]mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov

     42. [170]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     43. [171]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

     44. [172]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com

     45. [173]mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com

     46. [174]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     47. [175]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     48. [176]mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

     49. [177]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     50. [178]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     51. [179]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     52. [180]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     53. [181]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

     54. [182]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com

     55. [183]mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com

     56. [184]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     57. [185]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     58. [186]mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

     59. [187]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     60. [188]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     61. [189]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     62. [190]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     63. [191]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     64. [192]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     65. [193]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     66. [194]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     67. [195]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com

     68. [196]mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov

     69. [197]mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com

     70. [198]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     71. [199]mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

     72. [200]mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov

     73. [201]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     74. [202]mailto:image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150

     75. [203]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

     76. [204]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com

     77. [205]mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com

     78. [206]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     79. [207]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     80. [208]mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

     81. [209]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     82. [210]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     83. [211]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     84. [212]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     85. [213]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

     86. [214]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com

     87. [215]mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com

     88. [216]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     89. [217]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     90. [218]mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

     91. [219]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     92. [220]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     93. [221]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     94. [222]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     95. [223]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

     96. [224]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     97. [225]mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov

     98. [226]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

     99. [227]mailto:image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150

   100. [228]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

   101. [229]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com

   102. [230]mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com

   103. [231]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

   104. [232]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

   105. [233]mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

   106. [234]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

   107. [235]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   108. [236]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

   109. [237]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   110. [238]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

   111. [239]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com

   112. [240]mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com

   113. [241]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

   114. [242]mailto:detomaso at poca.com

   115. [243]mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk

   116. [244]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

   117. [245]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   118. [246]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

   119. [247]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   120. [248]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

   121. [249]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   122. [250]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

   123. [251]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   124. [252]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

   125. [253]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   _______________________________________________

   Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes

   DeTomaso mailing list

   [254]DeTomaso at poca.com

   [255]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use

   the links above.

   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [256]DeTomaso at poca.com
   [257]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.

References

   1. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
   2. mailto:don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com
   3. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   5. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
   6. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
   7. mailto:don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com
   8. http://www.ebay.com/itm/141426581678
   9. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  11. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  12. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
  13. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
  14. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  15. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
  16. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  17. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
  18. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
  19. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  20. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
  21. mailto:[6][14]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
  22. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  23. mailto:image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
  24. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
  25. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  26. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
  27. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  28. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  29. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
  30. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  31. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  32. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  33. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  34. mailto:[19][29]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
  35. mailto:[20][30]charlesmccall at gmail.com
  36. mailto:[21][31]andymay24 at gmail.com
  37. mailto:[22][32]detomaso at poca.com
  38. mailto:[23][33]detomaso at poca.com
  39. mailto:[24][34]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
  40. mailto:[25][35]DeTomaso at poca.com
  41. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  42. mailto:[27][37]DeTomaso at poca.com
  43. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  44. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  45. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  46. mailto:[31][41]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
  47. mailto:[32][42]detomaso at poca.com
  48. mailto:[33]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
  49. mailto:[34][43]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
  50. mailto:[35][44]charlesmccall at gmail.com
  51. mailto:[36][45]andymay24 at gmail.com
  52. mailto:[37][46]detomaso at poca.com
  53. mailto:[38][47]detomaso at poca.com
  54. mailto:[39][48]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
  55. mailto:[40][49]DeTomaso at poca.com
  56. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  57. mailto:[42][51]DeTomaso at poca.com
  58. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  59. mailto:[44][53]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
  60. mailto:[45][54]charlesmccall at gmail.com
  61. mailto:[46][55]andymay24 at gmail.com
  62. mailto:[47][56]detomaso at poca.com
  63. mailto:[48][57]detomaso at poca.com
  64. mailto:[49][58]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
  65. mailto:[50][59]DeTomaso at poca.com
  66. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  67. mailto:[52][61]DeTomaso at poca.com
  68. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  69. mailto:[54][63]DeTomaso at poca.com
  70. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  71. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  72. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  73. mailto:[67]charlesmccall at gmail.com
  74. mailto:[68]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
  75. mailto:[69]andymay24 at gmail.com
  76. mailto:[70]detomaso at poca.com
  77. mailto:[71]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
  78. mailto:[72]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
  79. mailto:[73]detomaso at poca.com
  80. mailto:[74]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
  81. mailto:[75]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
  82. mailto:[76]charlesmccall at gmail.com
  83. mailto:[77]andymay24 at gmail.com
  84. mailto:[78]detomaso at poca.com
  85. mailto:[79]detomaso at poca.com
  86. mailto:[80]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
  87. mailto:[81]DeTomaso at poca.com
  88. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  89. mailto:[83]DeTomaso at poca.com
  90. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  91. mailto:[85]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
  92. mailto:[86]charlesmccall at gmail.com
  93. mailto:[87]andymay24 at gmail.com
  94. mailto:[88]detomaso at poca.com
  95. mailto:[89]detomaso at poca.com
  96. mailto:[90]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
  97. mailto:[91]DeTomaso at poca.com
  98. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  99. mailto:[93]DeTomaso at poca.com
 100. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 101. mailto:[95]DeTomaso at poca.com
 102. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 103. mailto:[97]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
 104. mailto:[98]detomaso at poca.com
 105. mailto:[99]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
 106. mailto:[100]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
 107. mailto:[101]charlesmccall at gmail.com
 108. mailto:[102]andymay24 at gmail.com
 109. mailto:[103]detomaso at poca.com
 110. mailto:[104]detomaso at poca.com
 111. mailto:[105]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
 112. mailto:[106]DeTomaso at poca.com
 113. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 114. mailto:[108]DeTomaso at poca.com
 115. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 116. mailto:[110]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
 117. mailto:[111]charlesmccall at gmail.com
 118. mailto:[112]andymay24 at gmail.com
 119. mailto:[113]detomaso at poca.com
 120. mailto:[114]detomaso at poca.com
 121. mailto:[115]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
 122. mailto:[116]DeTomaso at poca.com
 123. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 124. mailto:[118]DeTomaso at poca.com
 125. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 126. mailto:[120]DeTomaso at poca.com
 127. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 128. mailto:[122]DeTomaso at poca.com
 129. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 130. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 131. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 132. http://www.ebay.com/itm/141426581678
 133. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 134. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 135. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 136. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
 137. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
 138. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 139. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
 140. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 141. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
 142. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
 143. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 144. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
 145. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
 146. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 147. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
 148. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 149. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
 150. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 151. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 152. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
 153. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 154. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 155. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 156. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 157. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
 158. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 159. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
 160. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 161. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 162. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
 163. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 164. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 165. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
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