[DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
Will Kooiman
will.kooiman at gmail.com
Mon Feb 23 10:23:37 EST 2015
I had 2 Mallory HiFire digital 6 boxes fail - in 2 separate cars, my 67
Mustang and my Pantera.
I had an 84 Mustang 2.3L turbo that got hot and the TFI unit on the side
of the distributor failed. I replaced it, and the replacement was bad
too. So, we replaced it again, and the 2nd replacement was good.
I've run MSD 6AL on 3 cars now, and so far they haven't failed.
I like the MSD (or similar box) because a) they sometimes come with start
retard, b) they seem to run better where I spend the most time - below
4,000 rpm and c) they have a built-in rev limiter.
I would gladly switch to another box that has a better reputation, but I
don't know of any.
--
Will
On 2/23/15 10:12 AM, "Don Thomas" <don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here is one redundant system on e-bay.
> [1]http://www.ebay.com/itm/141426581678
>
> On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Ken Green via DeTomaso
> <[2]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>
> A A Has anyone compared the failure rate on MSD ignitions to the
> location?
> A A Maybe in a hot Pantera engine compartment, the life is
> reduced.A A lot
> A A of professional racers use (or at least used to use in the
> A A past) redundant MSD ignition systems that let them switch at
> any
> A A moment.A I assume if there was something as good or better,
> they would
> A A use it.
> A A Ken
> A A
> A __________________________________________________________________
> A A From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso at poca.com>
> A A To: [4]charlesmccall at gmail.com; [5]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov;
> A A [6]andymay24 at gmail.com; [7]detomaso at poca.com;
> [8]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> A A Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 1:42 PM
> A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
> A A A There are tens or hundreds of millions of cars running
> around with
> A A A electronic ignition systems with a failure rate of
> essentially zero.
> A A A If the rate for MSDs is even 1% per year it is probably 100-
> 1000
> A A times
> A A A higher than the other systems.
> A A A Why would anyone use one?A Doesn't it revert to single
> spark mode at
> A A A like 4K anyway?A What is the point?'
> A A A Jim Oddie
> A A A -----Original Message-----
>
> A A A From: Charles McCall <[1][9]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> A A A To: 'Himes, Terry (397C)' (397C)'
> <[2][10]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>;
> A A 'Andy
> A A A May' <[3][11]andymay24 at gmail.com>; detomaso
> <[4][12]detomaso at poca.com>;
> A A 'Mikael'
> A A A <[5][13]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
> A A A Sent: Sun, Feb 22, 2015 12:56 pm
> A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
> A A A Terry -
> A A A I had a similar discussion off-line with a forum member when I
> A A A mentioned that I'd had 2 MSD boxes go bad in the 15 years I've
> been
> A A A running them. He mentioned that there were numerous cases of
> MSD
> A A boxes
> A A A failing, and I've heard them as well.
> A A A What I don't have are facts or data with respect to failure
> rates. Do
> A A A we hear about MSD boxes failing because they are 4 times as
> popular
> A A as
> A A A the nearest competitor and that's why we hear about them? If we
> only
> A A A base our opinions on "background noise" or reported issues on a
> A A forum,
> A A A then Panteras are not terribly reliable, so we need to look for
> data.
> A A A Does anyone know if there are any objective studies regarding
> failure
> A A A rate per year, or miles, or something?
> A A A The previous box failed (I believe) because someone welded on
> the car
> A A A without disconnecting the unit, something we are warned not to
> do.
> A A This
> A A A box I had no explanation. Happy to change units if there are
> A A objective
> A A A facts that demonstrate that someone else has a better product.
> Any
> A A A thoughts?
>
> A A A From: Himes, Terry (397C)
> [[1]mailto:[6][14]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov]
> A A A Sent: domingo, 22 de febrero de 2015 21:35
> A A A To: Charles McCall; 'Andy May'; [2][7][15]detomaso at poca.com;
> Mikael
> A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
> suggestions
> A A A Exactly why I don't run MSD.A I have heard many many
> stories just
> A A like
> A A A this.
> A A A (only my personal preference.A no flames)
> A A A Thanks Charles for sharing.
> A A A "Sometimes I think the surest signs that intelligent life
> A A A A exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has
> tried
> A A A A to contact us!"
> A A A Terry W. HimesA [cid:[3][8]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150]
> A A A JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
> A A A InSight Sequence Team Lead
> A A A Rosetta/MEX Sequence Team Lead
> A A A Phone: [16](818) 393-6261
> A A A Cell:A A [17](818) 653-8213
> A A A Fax:A A [18](818) 393-3147
> A A A [1][4][9][19]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> A A A d--od-,
> A A A From: Charles McCall <[2][5][10][20]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> A A A Date: Sunday, February 22, 2015 6:38 AM
> A A A To: 'Andy May' <[3][6][11][21]andymay24 at gmail.com>,
> A A "[4][7][12][22]detomaso at poca.com"
> A A A <[5][8][13][23]detomaso at poca.com>, Mikael
> A A <[6][9][14][24]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
>
> A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
> A A A Hi all
> A A A Last fall, I commented that my engine wasn't running well.
> Symptoms
> A A may
> A A A be found in the e-mail below, and consensus was that they
> sounded
> A A carb
> A A A related, or perhaps timing related, and a number of people
> offered
> A A A suggestions. But the symptoms were sort of strange and didn't
> seem to
> A A A perfectly fit any of the theories as to the problem.
> A A A On a whim, over the winter I changed the MSD 6-AL electronic
> A A ignition,
> A A A since I had a spare and since the last time it failed, it gave
> some
> A A A really weird symptoms; erratic and sporadic problems. I sent
> the box
> A A to
> A A A MSD over Christmas for analysis and they confirmed that it
> failed
> A A their
> A A A test and had some issues. OK, sounds promising but was that the
> cause
> A A A of my problems?
> A A A It's been a harsh and snowy winter, but it has rained all week,
> which
> A A A cleaned most of the salt from the roads. So I took the car out
> today.
> A A A I'll feel better after a longer trip, but the first impression
> is
> A A very
> A A A positive. The hesitation and stumbling is gone, no starting
> problems,
> A A A and the car ran very very well. I'm cautiously saying that the
> A A problem
> A A A has been fixed.
> A A A I wanted to leave for posterity the fact that when the MSD box
> fails,
> A A A it isn't always catastrophic. It would actually almost be
> preferable
> A A if
> A A A it would, since I have a spare it and it would make the problem
> a
> A A A little more obvious. When they start to fail they get flaky -
> A A symptoms
> A A A that come and go. Both times they have failed I have started by
> A A A inspecting from top to bottom my carb, since the symptoms
> pointed in
> A A A that direction. Have an engine problem that you can't
> eliminate? Try
> A A A looking at your electronic ignition if you have it - it can
> cause all
> A A A kinds of weird running issues.
> A A A Thanks to all who answered
> A A A A A Anyway, my engine is not happy. This morning in the hotel
> parking
> A A A lot I
> A A A A A really thought that we'd have to skip today's event
> because it
> A A A wouldn't
> A A A A A start and didn't sound like it was even thinking about
> starting.
> A A A Took
> A A A A A probably 5 minutes of crank-wait-crank-wait before it
> fired.
> A A A Yesterday
> A A A A A at the gas station it took 2-3 minutes to start,
> something that
> A A has
> A A A A A never, ever happened before. It is really hard to
> describe the
> A A A problem
> A A A A A so much of it is "feel", but I'll do my best.
> A A A A A A few weeks ago I noticed that the engine would tend to
> stumble
> A A if I
> A A A A A would floor the throttle, then clear its throat and pull.
> For
> A A A example,
> A A A A A I like to heel-and-toe, just because, and when blipping
> the
> A A throttle
> A A A it
> A A A A A would stumble instead of rev. The engine also felt a
> little
> A A rougher,
> A A A as
> A A A A A though it vibrated more than I remembered it. I don't
> remember if
> A A A this
> A A A A A was before or after I did a short tune-up, by adjusting
> the valve
> A A A lash
> A A A A A (I have mechanical lifters), and cleaning the K&N air
> filter by
> A A A A A applying K&N filter oil, etc. or if it is irrelevant. So
> I was
> A A A messing
> A A A A A around in the engine bay recently...
> A A A A A This weekend the engine felt considerably worse. It felt
> like it
> A A A would
> A A A A A stumble under partial throttle as well. It would stumble
> a little
> A A A bit
> A A A A A under trailing throttle going downhill as well, so I
> don't think
> A A it
> A A A is
> A A A A A a clogged fuel filter.
> A A A A A Oil temp is perfect. Oil pressure is perfect. Water temp
> is
> A A perfect.
> A A A A A The engine idles perfectly. But if you floor the gas from
> idle,
> A A A it'll
> A A A A A stall. The engine doesn't feel crisp, it feels bloated
> and soft,
> A A if
> A A A A A that makes sense. It feels rough, and it feels like it
> A A occasionally
> A A A A A stumbles under constant throttle at highway speed. It
> pulls hard
> A A A when
> A A A A A accelerating, but I don't think as hard as it used to, or
> as high
> A A (I
> A A A A A have a 6500 rpm limiting chip in the MSD that it used to
> pull
> A A very
> A A A A A easily to).
> A A A A A Suggestions for where to begin looking? And other info
> that would
> A A A help
> A A A A A in troubleshooting?
> A A A !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
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> A A References
> A A A 1. [14]mailto:[19][29]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> A A A 2. [15]mailto:[20][30]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> A A A 3. [16]mailto:[21][31]andymay24 at gmail.com
> A A A 4. [17]mailto:[22][32]detomaso at poca.com
> A A A 5. [18]mailto:[23][33]detomaso at poca.com
> A A A 6. [19]mailto:[24][34]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> A A A 7. [20]mailto:[25][35]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A A 8.
> [21][26][36]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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> A A A 10.
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> A A A 3. mailto:[33]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
> A A A 4. mailto:[34][43]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> A A A 5. mailto:[35][44]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> A A A 6. mailto:[36][45]andymay24 at gmail.com
> A A A 7. mailto:[37][46]detomaso at poca.com
> A A A 8. mailto:[38][47]detomaso at poca.com
> A A A 9. mailto:[39][48]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> A A A 10. mailto:[40][49]DeTomaso at poca.com
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> [41][50]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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> A A A 14. mailto:[44][53]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov?
> A A A 15. mailto:[45][54]charlesmccall at gmail.com?
> A A A 16. mailto:[46][55]andymay24 at gmail.com?
> A A A 17. mailto:[47][56]detomaso at poca.com?
> A A A 18. mailto:[48][57]detomaso at poca.com?
> A A A 19. mailto:[49][58]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk?
> A A A 20. mailto:[50][59]DeTomaso at poca.com?
> A A A 21.
> [51][60]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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> A A 3. mailto:[69]andymay24 at gmail.com
> A A 4. mailto:[70]detomaso at poca.com
> A A 5. mailto:[71]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> A A 6. mailto:[72]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
> A A 7. mailto:[73]detomaso at poca.com
> A A 8. mailto:[74]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
> A A 9. mailto:[75]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> A 10. mailto:[76]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> A 11. mailto:[77]andymay24 at gmail.com
> A 12. mailto:[78]detomaso at poca.com
> A 13. mailto:[79]detomaso at poca.com
> A 14. mailto:[80]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> A 15. mailto:[81]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 16. [82]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 17. mailto:[83]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 18. [84]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 19. mailto:[85]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> A 20. mailto:[86]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> A 21. mailto:[87]andymay24 at gmail.com
> A 22. mailto:[88]detomaso at poca.com
> A 23. mailto:[89]detomaso at poca.com
> A 24. mailto:[90]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> A 25. mailto:[91]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 26. [92]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 27. mailto:[93]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 28. [94]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 29. mailto:[95]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 30. [96]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 31. mailto:[97]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
> A 32. mailto:[98]detomaso at poca.com
> A 33. mailto:[99]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
> A 34. mailto:[100]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> A 35. mailto:[101]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> A 36. mailto:[102]andymay24 at gmail.com
> A 37. mailto:[103]detomaso at poca.com
> A 38. mailto:[104]detomaso at poca.com
> A 39. mailto:[105]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> A 40. mailto:[106]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 41. [107]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 42. mailto:[108]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 43. [109]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 44. mailto:[110]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> A 45. mailto:[111]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> A 46. mailto:[112]andymay24 at gmail.com
> A 47. mailto:[113]detomaso at poca.com
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>References
>
> 1. http://www.ebay.com/itm/141426581678
> 2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 4. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 5. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 6. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
> 7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 8. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> 9. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 10. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 11. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
> 12. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 13. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> 14. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 15. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 16. tel:%28818%29%20393-6261
> 17. tel:%28818%29%20653-8213
> 18. tel:%28818%29%20393-3147
> 19. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 20. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 21. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
> 22. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 24. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> 25. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 26. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 29. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 30. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 31. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
> 32. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 33. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 34. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> 35. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 36. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 37. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 38. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 39. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 40. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 41. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 42. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 43. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 44. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 45. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
> 46. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 47. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 48. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> 49. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 50. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 51. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 52. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 53. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 54. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 55. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
> 56. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 57. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 58. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> 59. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 60. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 61. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 62. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 63. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 64. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 65. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 66. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 67. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 68. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 69. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
> 70. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 71. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> 72. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 73. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 74. mailto:image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150
> 75. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 76. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 77. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
> 78. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 79. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 80. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> 81. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 82. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 83. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 84. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 85. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 86. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 87. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
> 88. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 89. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 90. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
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