[DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
jderyke at aol.com
jderyke at aol.com
Mon Feb 23 03:56:33 EST 2015
MSD isn't likely to publicise even the existence of failures, let alone
failure rates. What they might tell you is the number of returns they
get, some of which are counterfeit from China in counterfeit boxes.
IMHO, one problem with almost all aftermarket electronic ignitions is,
YOU are the unpaid tester. Ford, GM & FIAT/Chrysler sell millions of
electronic ignitions but they test theirs exhaustively before releasing
them to the public, per gov't rules. So I suggest using a Ford 460
electronic ignition that is a drop-in to a 351-C. MSD actually uses
parts from the Ford design in their assemblies- which do have better
bearings and a billet housing. The stock Ford unit can be customized
with all stock parts to adjust phasing, advance curves and vacuum
advance, and a solid-stale 'E-coil'- also stock. All this stuff is
tested and has been in production since the late '70s. Occasionally,
they still fail. So its not entirely a MSD problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>; mikael_hass <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
Sent: Sun, Feb 22, 2015 11:29 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
I haven't seen a study relating ignition box location to failure
rate.
I haven't seen a study relating to failure rate period! But my unit
is
installed inside the cabin, protected from heat and vibration.
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:48 AM, Ken Green <[1]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
wrote:
Has anyone compared theA failure rate on MSD ignitions to the
location?A Maybe in a hot Pantera engine compartment, the life is
reduced.A A lot of professional racers use (orA at least used to use
in the past)A redundant MSD ignition systems that let them switch at
any moment.A A I assume if thereA was something as good or better,
they
would use it.
Ken
A
__________________________________________________________________
From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso at poca.com>
To: [3]charlesmccall at gmail.com; [4]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov;
[5]andymay24 at gmail.com; [6]detomaso at poca.com;
[7]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
A There are tens or hundreds of millions of cars running around with
A electronic ignition systems with a failure rate of essentially
zero.
A If the rate for MSDs is even 1% per year it is probably 100- 1000
times
A higher than the other systems.
A Why would anyone use one?A Doesn't it revert to single spark mode
at
A like 4K anyway?A What is the point?'
A Jim Oddie
A -----Original Message-----
A From: Charles McCall <[8]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
A To: 'Himes, Terry (397C)' (397C)' <[9]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>;
'Andy
A May' <[10]andymay24 at gmail.com>; detomaso <[11]detomaso at poca.com>;
'Mikael'
A <[12]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
A Sent: Sun, Feb 22, 2015 12:56 pm
A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
A Terry -
A I had a similar discussion off-line with a forum member when I
A mentioned that I'd had 2 MSD boxes go bad in the 15 years I've
been
A running them. He mentioned that there were numerous cases of MSD
boxes
A failing, and I've heard them as well.
A What I don't have are facts or data with respect to failure rates.
Do
A we hear about MSD boxes failing because they are 4 times as
popular
as
A the nearest competitor and that's why we hear about them? If we
only
A base our opinions on "background noise" or reported issues on a
forum,
A then Panteras are not terribly reliable, so we need to look for
data.
A Does anyone know if there are any objective studies regarding
failure
A rate per year, or miles, or something?
A The previous box failed (I believe) because someone welded on the
car
A without disconnecting the unit, something we are warned not to do.
This
A box I had no explanation. Happy to change units if there are
objective
A facts that demonstrate that someone else has a better product. Any
A thoughts?
A From: Himes, Terry (397C) [[1]mailto:[13]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov]
A Sent: domingo, 22 de febrero de 2015 21:35
A To: Charles McCall; 'Andy May'; [2][14]detomaso at poca.com; Mikael
A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
A Exactly why I don't run MSD.A I have heard many many stories just
like
A this.
A (only my personal preference.A no flames)
A Thanks Charles for sharing.
A "Sometimes I think the surest signs that intelligent life
A A exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried
A A to contact us!"
A Terry W. HimesA [cid:[3][15]image001.png at 01D04EE9.ADCE0150]
A JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
A InSight Sequence Team Lead
A Rosetta/MEX Sequence Team Lead
A Phone: [16](818) 393-6261
A Cell:A A [17](818) 653-8213
A Fax:A A [18](818) 393-3147
A [1][4][19]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
A d--od-,
A From: Charles McCall <[2][5][20]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
A Date: Sunday, February 22, 2015 6:38 AM
A To: 'Andy May' <[3][6][21]andymay24 at gmail.com>,
"[4][7][22]detomaso at poca.com"
A <[5][8][23]detomaso at poca.com>, Mikael
<[6][9][24]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
A Hi all
A Last fall, I commented that my engine wasn't running well.
Symptoms
may
A be found in the e-mail below, and consensus was that they sounded
carb
A related, or perhaps timing related, and a number of people offered
A suggestions. But the symptoms were sort of strange and didn't seem
to
A perfectly fit any of the theories as to the problem.
A On a whim, over the winter I changed the MSD 6-AL electronic
ignition,
A since I had a spare and since the last time it failed, it gave
some
A really weird symptoms; erratic and sporadic problems. I sent the
box
to
A MSD over Christmas for analysis and they confirmed that it failed
their
A test and had some issues. OK, sounds promising but was that the
cause
A of my problems?
A It's been a harsh and snowy winter, but it has rained all week,
which
A cleaned most of the salt from the roads. So I took the car out
today.
A I'll feel better after a longer trip, but the first impression is
very
A positive. The hesitation and stumbling is gone, no starting
problems,
A and the car ran very very well. I'm cautiously saying that the
problem
A has been fixed.
A I wanted to leave for posterity the fact that when the MSD box
fails,
A it isn't always catastrophic. It would actually almost be
preferable
if
A it would, since I have a spare it and it would make the problem a
A little more obvious. When they start to fail they get flaky -
symptoms
A that come and go. Both times they have failed I have started by
A inspecting from top to bottom my carb, since the symptoms pointed
in
A that direction. Have an engine problem that you can't eliminate?
Try
A looking at your electronic ignition if you have it - it can cause
all
A kinds of weird running issues.
A Thanks to all who answered
A A A Anyway, my engine is not happy. This morning in the hotel
parking
A lot I
A A A really thought that we'd have to skip today's event because
it
A wouldn't
A A A start and didn't sound like it was even thinking about
starting.
A Took
A A A probably 5 minutes of crank-wait-crank-wait before it fired.
A Yesterday
A A A at the gas station it took 2-3 minutes to start, something
that has
A A A never, ever happened before. It is really hard to describe
the
A problem
A A A so much of it is "feel", but I'll do my best.
A A A A few weeks ago I noticed that the engine would tend to
stumble if I
A A A would floor the throttle, then clear its throat and pull.
For
A example,
A A A I like to heel-and-toe, just because, and when blipping the
throttle
A it
A A A would stumble instead of rev. The engine also felt a little
rougher,
A as
A A A though it vibrated more than I remembered it. I don't
remember
if
A this
A A A was before or after I did a short tune-up, by adjusting the
valve
A lash
A A A (I have mechanical lifters), and cleaning the K&N air filter
by
A A A applying K&N filter oil, etc. or if it is irrelevant. So I
was
A messing
A A A around in the engine bay recently...
A A A This weekend the engine felt considerably worse. It felt
like
it
A would
A A A stumble under partial throttle as well. It would stumble a
little
A bit
A A A under trailing throttle going downhill as well, so I don't
think it
A is
A A A a clogged fuel filter.
A A A Oil temp is perfect. Oil pressure is perfect. Water temp is
perfect.
A A A The engine idles perfectly. But if you floor the gas from
idle,
A it'll
A A A stall. The engine doesn't feel crisp, it feels bloated and
soft, if
A A A that makes sense. It feels rough, and it feels like it
occasionally
A A A stumbles under constant throttle at highway speed. It pulls
hard
A when
A A A accelerating, but I don't think as hard as it used to, or as
high (I
A A A have a 6500 rpm limiting chip in the MSD that it used to
pull
very
A A A easily to).
A A A Suggestions for where to begin looking? And other info that
would
A help
A A A in troubleshooting?
A !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
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