[DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions

Bill Moore bill at incendium.com
Sun Feb 22 16:39:29 EST 2015


What so you run Terry ?



Cheers,

Bill Moore
Incendium Supply
Calgary

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: "Himes, Terry (397C)" <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> </div><div>Date:2015-02-22  1:35 PM  (GMT-07:00) </div><div>To: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>,'Andy May' <andymay24 at gmail.com>,detomaso at poca.com,Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk> </div><div>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions </div><div>
</div>Exactly why I don't run MSD.  I have heard many many stories just like this.
(only my personal preference.  no flames)

Thanks Charles for sharing.


"Sometimes I think the surest signs that intelligent life
  exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried
  to contact us!"

Terry W. Himes [content://com.android.email.attachmentprovider/3/767/RAW]
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
InSight Sequence Team Lead
Rosetta/MEX Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell:     (818) 653-8213
Fax:     (818) 393-3147
thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
🇺🇸

From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com<mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com>>
Date: Sunday, February 22, 2015 6:38 AM
To: 'Andy May' <andymay24 at gmail.com<mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com>>, "detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>" <detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>, Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk<mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions

Hi all


Last fall, I commented that my engine wasn’t running well. Symptoms may be found in the e-mail below, and consensus was that they sounded carb related, or perhaps timing related, and a number of people offered suggestions. But the symptoms were sort of strange and didn’t seem to perfectly fit any of the theories as to the problem.


On a whim, over the winter I changed the MSD 6-AL electronic ignition, since I had a spare and since the last time it failed, it gave some really weird symptoms; erratic and sporadic problems. I sent the box to MSD over Christmas for analysis and they confirmed that it failed their test and had some issues. OK, sounds promising but was that the cause of my problems?


It’s been a harsh and snowy winter, but it has rained all week, which cleaned most of the salt from the roads. So I took the car out today. I’ll feel better after a longer trip, but the first impression is very positive. The hesitation and stumbling is gone, no starting problems, and the car ran very very well. I’m cautiously saying that the problem has been fixed.


I wanted to leave for posterity the fact that when the MSD box fails, it isn’t always catastrophic. It would actually almost be preferable if it would, since I have a spare it and it would make the problem a little more obvious. When they start to fail they get flaky – symptoms that come and go. Both times they have failed I have started by inspecting from top to bottom my carb, since the symptoms pointed in that direction. Have an engine problem that you can’t eliminate? Try looking at your electronic ignition if you have it – it can cause all kinds of weird running issues.


Thanks to all who answered




   Anyway, my engine is not happy. This morning in the hotel parking lot I
   really thought that we'd have to skip today's event because it wouldn't
   start and didn't sound like it was even thinking about starting. Took
   probably 5 minutes of crank-wait-crank-wait before it fired. Yesterday
   at the gas station it took 2-3 minutes to start, something that has
   never, ever happened before. It is really hard to describe the problem
   so much of it is "feel", but I'll do my best.


   A few weeks ago I noticed that the engine would tend to stumble if I
   would floor the throttle, then clear its throat and pull. For example,
   I like to heel-and-toe, just because, and when blipping the throttle it
   would stumble instead of rev. The engine also felt a little rougher, as
   though it vibrated more than I remembered it. I don't remember if this
   was before or after I did a short tune-up, by adjusting the valve lash
   (I have mechanical lifters), and cleaning the K&N air filter by
   applying K&N filter oil, etc. or if it is irrelevant. So I was messing
   around in the engine bay recently...


   This weekend the engine felt considerably worse. It felt like it would
   stumble under partial throttle as well. It would stumble a little bit
   under trailing throttle going downhill as well, so I don't think it is
   a clogged fuel filter.


   Oil temp is perfect. Oil pressure is perfect. Water temp is perfect.
   The engine idles perfectly. But if you floor the gas from idle, it'll
   stall. The engine doesn't feel crisp, it feels bloated and soft, if
   that makes sense. It feels rough, and it feels like it occasionally
   stumbles under constant throttle at highway speed. It pulls hard when
   accelerating, but I don't think as hard as it used to, or as high (I
   have a 6500 rpm limiting chip in the MSD that it used to pull very
   easily to).


   Suggestions for where to begin looking? And other info that would help
   in troubleshooting?


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   Exactly why I don't run MSD.  I have heard many many stories just like
   this.
   (only my personal preference.  no flames)
   Thanks Charles for sharing.

   "Sometimes I think the surest signs that intelligent life

     exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried

     to contact us!"

   Terry W. Himes  [content://com.android.email.attachmentprovider/3/767/RAW]

   JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory

   InSight Sequence Team Lead

   Rosetta/MEX Sequence Team Lead

   Phone: (818) 393-6261

   Cell:     (818) 653-8213

   Fax:     (818) 393-3147

   [1]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

   From: Charles McCall <[2]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   Date: Sunday, February 22, 2015 6:38 AM
   To: 'Andy May' <[3]andymay24 at gmail.com>, "[4]detomaso at poca.com"
   <[5]detomaso at poca.com>, Mikael <[6]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions

   Hi all
   Last fall, I commented that my engine wasn't running well. Symptoms may
   be found in the e-mail below, and consensus was that they sounded carb
   related, or perhaps timing related, and a number of people offered
   suggestions. But the symptoms were sort of strange and didn't seem to
   perfectly fit any of the theories as to the problem.
   On a whim, over the winter I changed the MSD 6-AL electronic ignition,
   since I had a spare and since the last time it failed, it gave some
   really weird symptoms; erratic and sporadic problems. I sent the box to
   MSD over Christmas for analysis and they confirmed that it failed their
   test and had some issues. OK, sounds promising but was that the cause
   of my problems?
   It's been a harsh and snowy winter, but it has rained all week, which
   cleaned most of the salt from the roads. So I took the car out today.
   I'll feel better after a longer trip, but the first impression is very
   positive. The hesitation and stumbling is gone, no starting problems,
   and the car ran very very well. I'm cautiously saying that the problem
   has been fixed.
   I wanted to leave for posterity the fact that when the MSD box fails,
   it isn't always catastrophic. It would actually almost be preferable if
   it would, since I have a spare it and it would make the problem a
   little more obvious. When they start to fail they get flaky - symptoms
   that come and go. Both times they have failed I have started by
   inspecting from top to bottom my carb, since the symptoms pointed in
   that direction. Have an engine problem that you can't eliminate? Try
   looking at your electronic ignition if you have it - it can cause all
   kinds of weird running issues.
   Thanks to all who answered

      Anyway, my engine is not happy. This morning in the hotel parking
   lot I

      really thought that we'd have to skip today's event because it
   wouldn't

      start and didn't sound like it was even thinking about starting.
   Took

      probably 5 minutes of crank-wait-crank-wait before it fired.
   Yesterday

      at the gas station it took 2-3 minutes to start, something that has

      never, ever happened before. It is really hard to describe the
   problem

      so much of it is "feel", but I'll do my best.

      A few weeks ago I noticed that the engine would tend to stumble if I

      would floor the throttle, then clear its throat and pull. For
   example,

      I like to heel-and-toe, just because, and when blipping the throttle
   it

      would stumble instead of rev. The engine also felt a little rougher,
   as

      though it vibrated more than I remembered it. I don't remember if
   this

      was before or after I did a short tune-up, by adjusting the valve
   lash

      (I have mechanical lifters), and cleaning the K&N air filter by

      applying K&N filter oil, etc. or if it is irrelevant. So I was
   messing

      around in the engine bay recently...

      This weekend the engine felt considerably worse. It felt like it
   would

      stumble under partial throttle as well. It would stumble a little
   bit

      under trailing throttle going downhill as well, so I don't think it
   is

      a clogged fuel filter.

      Oil temp is perfect. Oil pressure is perfect. Water temp is perfect.

      The engine idles perfectly. But if you floor the gas from idle,
   it'll

      stall. The engine doesn't feel crisp, it feels bloated and soft, if

      that makes sense. It feels rough, and it feels like it occasionally

      stumbles under constant throttle at highway speed. It pulls hard
   when

      accelerating, but I don't think as hard as it used to, or as high (I

      have a 6500 rpm limiting chip in the MSD that it used to pull very

      easily to).

      Suggestions for where to begin looking? And other info that would
   help

      in troubleshooting?

   !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!

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References

   1. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
   2. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
   3. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
   4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   6. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
   7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

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-------------- next part --------------
   What so you run Terry ?

   Cheers,

   Bill Moore

   Incendium Supply

   Calgary

   -------- Original message --------

   From: "Himes, Terry (397C)"

   Date:2015-02-22 1:35 PM (GMT-07:00)

   To: Charles McCall ,'Andy May' ,detomaso at poca.com,Mikael

   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions

   Exactly why I don't run MSD.  I have heard many many stories just like
   this.
   (only my personal preference.  no flames)
   Thanks Charles for sharing.
   "Sometimes I think the surest signs that intelligent life
     exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried
     to contact us!"
   Terry W. Himes
   [content://com.android.email.attachmentprovider/3/767/RAW]
   JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
   InSight Sequence Team Lead
   Rosetta/MEX Sequence Team Lead
   Phone: (818) 393-6261
   Cell:     (818) 653-8213
   Fax:     (818) 393-3147
   thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
   From: Charles McCall
   <charlesmccall at gmail.com<mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com>>
   Date: Sunday, February 22, 2015 6:38 AM
   To: 'Andy May' <andymay24 at gmail.com<mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com>>,
   "detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>"
   <detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>, Mikael
   <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk<mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
   Hi all
   Last fall, I commented that my engine wasn't running well. Symptoms may
   be found in the e-mail below, and consensus was that they sounded carb
   related, or perhaps timing related, and a number of people offered
   suggestions. But the symptoms were sort of strange and didn't seem to
   perfectly fit any of the theories as to the problem.
   On a whim, over the winter I changed the MSD 6-AL electronic ignition,
   since I had a spare and since the last time it failed, it gave some
   really weird symptoms; erratic and sporadic problems. I sent the box to
   MSD over Christmas for analysis and they confirmed that it failed their
   test and had some issues. OK, sounds promising but was that the cause
   of my problems?
   It's been a harsh and snowy winter, but it has rained all week, which
   cleaned most of the salt from the roads. So I took the car out today.
   I'll feel better after a longer trip, but the first impression is very
   positive. The hesitation and stumbling is gone, no starting problems,
   and the car ran very very well. I'm cautiously saying that the problem
   has been fixed.
   I wanted to leave for posterity the fact that when the MSD box fails,
   it isn't always catastrophic. It would actually almost be preferable if
   it would, since I have a spare it and it would make the problem a
   little more obvious. When they start to fail they get flaky - symptoms
   that come and go. Both times they have failed I have started by
   inspecting from top to bottom my carb, since the symptoms pointed in
   that direction. Have an engine problem that you can't eliminate? Try
   looking at your electronic ignition if you have it - it can cause all
   kinds of weird running issues.
   Thanks to all who answered
      Anyway, my engine is not happy. This morning in the hotel parking
   lot I
      really thought that we'd have to skip today's event because it
   wouldn't
      start and didn't sound like it was even thinking about starting.
   Took
      probably 5 minutes of crank-wait-crank-wait before it fired.
   Yesterday
      at the gas station it took 2-3 minutes to start, something that has
      never, ever happened before. It is really hard to describe the
   problem
      so much of it is "feel", but I'll do my best.
      A few weeks ago I noticed that the engine would tend to stumble if I
      would floor the throttle, then clear its throat and pull. For
   example,
      I like to heel-and-toe, just because, and when blipping the throttle
   it
      would stumble instead of rev. The engine also felt a little rougher,
   as
      though it vibrated more than I remembered it. I don't remember if
   this
      was before or after I did a short tune-up, by adjusting the valve
   lash
      (I have mechanical lifters), and cleaning the K&N air filter by
      applying K&N filter oil, etc. or if it is irrelevant. So I was
   messing
      around in the engine bay recently...
      This weekend the engine felt considerably worse. It felt like it
   would
      stumble under partial throttle as well. It would stumble a little
   bit
      under trailing throttle going downhill as well, so I don't think it
   is
      a clogged fuel filter.
      Oil temp is perfect. Oil pressure is perfect. Water temp is perfect.
      The engine idles perfectly. But if you floor the gas from idle,
   it'll
      stall. The engine doesn't feel crisp, it feels bloated and soft, if
      that makes sense. It feels rough, and it feels like it occasionally
      stumbles under constant throttle at highway speed. It pulls hard
   when
      accelerating, but I don't think as hard as it used to, or as high (I
      have a 6500 rpm limiting chip in the MSD that it used to pull very
      easily to).
      Suggestions for where to begin looking? And other info that would
   help
      in troubleshooting?
   !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
   _______________________________________________
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   DeTomaso at poca.com<mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com>
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   !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
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   DeTomaso at poca.com<mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com>
   http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
      Exactly why I don't run MSD.  I have heard many many stories just
   like
      this.
      (only my personal preference.  no flames)
      Thanks Charles for sharing.
      "Sometimes I think the surest signs that intelligent life
        exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried
        to contact us!"
      Terry W. Himes
   [content://com.android.email.attachmentprovider/3/767/RAW]
      JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
      InSight Sequence Team Lead
      Rosetta/MEX Sequence Team Lead
      Phone: (818) 393-6261
      Cell:     (818) 653-8213
      Fax:     (818) 393-3147
      [1]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
      From: Charles McCall <[2]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
      Date: Sunday, February 22, 2015 6:38 AM
      To: 'Andy May' <[3]andymay24 at gmail.com>, "[4]detomaso at poca.com"
      <[5]detomaso at poca.com>, Mikael <[6]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
      Hi all
      Last fall, I commented that my engine wasn't running well. Symptoms
   may
      be found in the e-mail below, and consensus was that they sounded
   carb
      related, or perhaps timing related, and a number of people offered
      suggestions. But the symptoms were sort of strange and didn't seem
   to
      perfectly fit any of the theories as to the problem.
      On a whim, over the winter I changed the MSD 6-AL electronic
   ignition,
      since I had a spare and since the last time it failed, it gave some
      really weird symptoms; erratic and sporadic problems. I sent the box
   to
      MSD over Christmas for analysis and they confirmed that it failed
   their
      test and had some issues. OK, sounds promising but was that the
   cause
      of my problems?
      It's been a harsh and snowy winter, but it has rained all week,
   which
      cleaned most of the salt from the roads. So I took the car out
   today.
      I'll feel better after a longer trip, but the first impression is
   very
      positive. The hesitation and stumbling is gone, no starting
   problems,
      and the car ran very very well. I'm cautiously saying that the
   problem
      has been fixed.
      I wanted to leave for posterity the fact that when the MSD box
   fails,
      it isn't always catastrophic. It would actually almost be preferable
   if
      it would, since I have a spare it and it would make the problem a
      little more obvious. When they start to fail they get flaky -
   symptoms
      that come and go. Both times they have failed I have started by
      inspecting from top to bottom my carb, since the symptoms pointed in
      that direction. Have an engine problem that you can't eliminate? Try
      looking at your electronic ignition if you have it - it can cause
   all
      kinds of weird running issues.
      Thanks to all who answered
         Anyway, my engine is not happy. This morning in the hotel parking
      lot I
         really thought that we'd have to skip today's event because it
      wouldn't
         start and didn't sound like it was even thinking about starting.
      Took
         probably 5 minutes of crank-wait-crank-wait before it fired.
      Yesterday
         at the gas station it took 2-3 minutes to start, something that
   has
         never, ever happened before. It is really hard to describe the
      problem
         so much of it is "feel", but I'll do my best.
         A few weeks ago I noticed that the engine would tend to stumble
   if I
         would floor the throttle, then clear its throat and pull. For
      example,
         I like to heel-and-toe, just because, and when blipping the
   throttle
      it
         would stumble instead of rev. The engine also felt a little
   rougher,
      as
         though it vibrated more than I remembered it. I don't remember if
      this
         was before or after I did a short tune-up, by adjusting the valve
      lash
         (I have mechanical lifters), and cleaning the K&N air filter by
         applying K&N filter oil, etc. or if it is irrelevant. So I was
      messing
         around in the engine bay recently...
         This weekend the engine felt considerably worse. It felt like it
      would
         stumble under partial throttle as well. It would stumble a little
      bit
         under trailing throttle going downhill as well, so I don't think
   it
      is
         a clogged fuel filter.
         Oil temp is perfect. Oil pressure is perfect. Water temp is
   perfect.
         The engine idles perfectly. But if you floor the gas from idle,
      it'll
         stall. The engine doesn't feel crisp, it feels bloated and soft,
   if
         that makes sense. It feels rough, and it feels like it
   occasionally
         stumbles under constant throttle at highway speed. It pulls hard
      when
         accelerating, but I don't think as hard as it used to, or as high
   (I
         have a 6500 rpm limiting chip in the MSD that it used to pull
   very
         easily to).
         Suggestions for where to begin looking? And other info that would
      help
         in troubleshooting?
      !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
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      !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
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   References
      1. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
      2. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
      3. mailto:andymay24 at gmail.com
      4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
      5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
      6. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
      7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
      8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
      9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
     10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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