[DeTomaso] Sodium valves
B. SEIB
oldwheel at shaw.ca
Wed Feb 18 17:12:56 EST 2015
Yes, that sounds reasonable. I think it was for use in aircraft engines with
some form of supercharging that they were originally developed. I just
didn't realize they were back in style!
Barry
_____
From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
Sent: February-18-15 4:07 PM
To: B. SEIB; 'Charles De Francisco'; 'DetomasoList'
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
What I read said the stock LS7 has sodium filled exhaust valves.
I would guess that a turbo charged production engine might have them to
handle the heat?
Ken
_____
From: B. SEIB <oldwheel at shaw.ca>
To: 'Charles De Francisco' <drfortinbras at gmail.com>; 'Ken Green'
<kenn_green at yahoo.com>; 'DetomasoList' <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
Thanks Charles
I wouldn't be surprised if sodium valves were used in Nascar hemis or
Boss 429 engines too. I just don't recall any production engines with
them, but I could be wrong.....
Ken Green says the LS7 uses them !
I'm surprised at that. I wonder if that's in the GM engine as produced
or an aftermarket thing?
Ken, do you know?
Barry
__________________________________________________________________
From: Charles De Francisco [mailto:drfortinbras at gmail.com]
Sent: February-18-15 3:41 PM
To: B. SEIB
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
Hi Barry your info was almost rite on. Ford did offer the sodium
valves on the 427 engines for thr Cobras used in their race program
There was a issue with the nos valves as the sodium corroded the inside
causing them to come apart as they were drilled to make the stem
hollow..the story I heard was the sodium was to provide cooling of the
valve stem in endurance racing...we used some
In drag race engines as they were somewhat lighter..a much better set
up would be manley stainless valves..?..Pete Coleman
At manley in Lakewood n.j. 732-905-3366 would be able to help you on
this issue.
On Wednesday, February 18, 2015, B. SEIB <[1]oldwheel at shaw.ca> wrote:
Hi Robert
Sodium valves were a feature in the 375HP version of Corvette 327
engines
with fuel injection. I don't recall sodium valves being used in
other US
standard production engines. Maybe some other exotic engines did.
Later
valve steels and technology made the risks and expense of sodium
filled
valves obsolete in HP engines. The idea originated in aircraft
piston
engines back around WWII, I think, and was related to trying to cool
exhaust
valves under high stress loads.
The 1971 Cleveland 351-4V engines in Panteras (and Mustangs,etc.)
had high
compression closed chamber (quench) heads, single point
distributors, small
square bore 600cfm 4300A carbs and 2 bolt mains. The Boss 351 was
the only
351C to get 4 bolt mains, dual point distributor and the large
spreadbore
Motorcraft 4300D carb in 1971 along with high compression CC heads.
Some people have said that some 1971 4V engines found there way into
very
early 72 Panteras, but probably only in early January 72 cars. The
1972
Cobra-jet engines would have entered production in Sept of 1971 and
by the
end of 1971, DeTomaso was likely to have used their engine stock on
hand and
have received new Cobra-jet engines from Ford. I understand DeTomaso
was
generally receiving engines only about a month or so after they were
produced in the US plant.
1972 Panteras came with Cobra-jet engines that had open chamber
(lower
compression) 4V heads but with 4 bolt mains, dual point distributor
and
large spreadbore Motorcraft 4300D carb. This was the strange result
of Ford
trying to recover some of the power lost to stricter emission
standards for
1972. The compression had to come down for unleaded gas and Ford
upped the
RPM to try to get some oomph back. They retarded the cam timing and
hopped
it up a bit to get the power at higher revs, thus the dual point and
4 bolt
mains.
1973 and 74 went downhill from there, with increasing emissions and
lower
compression.
So...the best heads were in 1971, but everything else was better in
1972.
Unless you have a 1971 BOSS 351 engine, which never came in a
production US
market Pantera. Pity that.
Barry
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-------------- next part --------------
Yes, that sounds reasonable. I think it was for use in aircraft engines
with some form of supercharging that they were originally developed. I
just didn't realize they were back in style!
Barry
__________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
Sent: February-18-15 4:07 PM
To: B. SEIB; 'Charles De Francisco'; 'DetomasoList'
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
What I read said the stock LS7 has sodium filled exhaust valves.
I would guess that a turbo charged production engine might have them to
handle the heat?
Ken
__________________________________________________________________
From: B. SEIB <oldwheel at shaw.ca>
To: 'Charles De Francisco' <drfortinbras at gmail.com>; 'Ken Green'
<kenn_green at yahoo.com>; 'DetomasoList' <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
Thanks Charles
I wouldn't be surprised if sodium valves were used in Nascar hemis or
Boss 429 engines too. I just don't recall any production engines with
them, but I could be wrong.....
Ken Green says the LS7 uses them !
I'm surprised at that. I wonder if that's in the GM engine as
produced
or an aftermarket thing?
Ken, do you know?
Barry
__________________________________________________________________
From: Charles De Francisco [mailto:[1]drfortinbras at gmail.com]
Sent: February-18-15 3:41 PM
To: B. SEIB
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
Hi Barry your info was almost rite on. Ford did offer the sodium
valves on the 427 engines for thr Cobras used in their race program
There was a issue with the nos valves as the sodium corroded the
inside
causing them to come apart as they were drilled to make the stem
hollow..the story I heard was the sodium was to provide cooling of
the
valve stem in endurance racing...we used some
In drag race engines as they were somewhat lighter..a much better set
up would be manley stainless valves..?..Pete Coleman
At manley in Lakewood n.j. 732-905-3366 would be able to help you on
this issue.
On Wednesday, February 18, 2015, B. SEIB <[1][2]oldwheel at shaw.ca>
wrote:
Hi Robert
Sodium valves were a feature in the 375HP version of Corvette 327
engines
with fuel injection. I don't recall sodium valves being used in
other US
standard production engines. Maybe some other exotic engines did.
Later
valve steels and technology made the risks and expense of sodium
filled
valves obsolete in HP engines. The idea originated in aircraft
piston
engines back around WWII, I think, and was related to trying to
cool
exhaust
valves under high stress loads.
The 1971 Cleveland 351-4V engines in Panteras (and Mustangs,etc.)
had high
compression closed chamber (quench) heads, single point
distributors, small
square bore 600cfm 4300A carbs and 2 bolt mains. The Boss 351 was
the only
351C to get 4 bolt mains, dual point distributor and the large
spreadbore
Motorcraft 4300D carb in 1971 along with high compression CC heads.
Some people have said that some 1971 4V engines found there way
into
very
early 72 Panteras, but probably only in early January 72 cars. The
1972
Cobra-jet engines would have entered production in Sept of 1971 and
by the
end of 1971, DeTomaso was likely to have used their engine stock on
hand and
have received new Cobra-jet engines from Ford. I understand
DeTomaso
was
generally receiving engines only about a month or so after they
were
produced in the US plant.
1972 Panteras came with Cobra-jet engines that had open chamber
(lower
compression) 4V heads but with 4 bolt mains, dual point distributor
and
large spreadbore Motorcraft 4300D carb. This was the strange result
of Ford
trying to recover some of the power lost to stricter emission
standards for
1972. The compression had to come down for unleaded gas and Ford
upped the
RPM to try to get some oomph back. They retarded the cam timing and
hopped
it up a bit to get the power at higher revs, thus the dual point
and
4 bolt
mains.
1973 and 74 went downhill from there, with increasing emissions and
lower
compression.
So...the best heads were in 1971, but everything else was better in
1972.
Unless you have a 1971 BOSS 351 engine, which never came in a
production US
market Pantera. Pity that.
Barry
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