[DeTomaso] Headers/Exhaust

R.J willibillie at live.de
Sun Feb 8 13:57:17 EST 2015


Question for me is, what was the base HP, Dan Jones got 31 HP more? Was 
it a stock engine or a highly modified? How many percent was it?
Roland

Am 08.02.2015 um 12:07 schrieb Mike Drew via DeTomaso:
>     In a message dated 2/7/15 21 24 31, mghibli7 at hotmail.com writes:
>
>         I have finally decided to switch back to normal exhaust on my
>       Pantera.
>          I will keep the 180's.
>
>     >>>Why would you keep them?  Seems to me you should either keep them
>     and use them, or switch and sell them to fund the switch?
>
>       >  I want something that looks stock, but flows better.  My car has
>       been
>         through a few stages.  The one that I enjoyed the most was
>       slightly
>         modified over stock.  It is currently in the too-modified
>       condition.
>         It feels like a race car slightly detuned for the street.
>         I've been thinking about GTS headers like these:
>         [1]http://www.precisionproformance.com/ex1015.php.
>         Any recommendations on mufflers?  Do any of the vendors sell ANSA
>       style
>         mufflers that flow better than stock?
>
>     >>>All the vendors sell the factory GTS exhaust system.  They all
>     source their ANSA GTS mufflers from Hall, who is the exclusive north
>     American distributor for them, and sell them for about the same price.
>     The headers are perfect copies of the ANSA originals but made in the
>     USA.
>     The mufflers are fantastically expensive.  The original GTS mufflers
>     are also quite restrictive; Dan Jones dyno tests showed they knocked a
>     full 50 hp (!) off from an optimized system (Mustang headers and
>     conventional non-Pantera mufflers) in back-to-back tests.
>     I gutted my GTS mufflers to improve them, and shipped them to Dan for a
>     back-to-back test with unmodified GTS mufflers and was sad to learn
>     that I only picked up 12 hp; it wasn't worth the effort to modify
>     them.  I concluded that the culprit is the four tips, whose center
>     holes are not nearly large enough.  The new-production mufflers no
>     longer use resonators; they have chrome tips with an unnecessary
>     restriction inside, but they are at least larger inside diameter than
>     the old ones were.
>     Wilkinson's copy of the GTS exhaust system is brilliant.  Dan
>     dyno-tested them and found that they picked up a whopping 31 horspower
>     over the factory GTS system.  It comes as a complete system (headers
>     and mufflers) and costs barely more than the ANSA GTS mufflers alone.
>     It's designed to mimic the appearance of the originals, and does a
>     fantastic job of it.  The outside diameter of the tips is 1/4 inch
>     larger than the original ANSA tips, barely noticeable (3 inches versus
>     2 3/4 inches).  But the inside diameter of the resonators is 1 3/4
>     inches versus the 1 1/4 inches of the original ANSAs (the new ANSAs are
>     1 1/2 inches, splitting the difference).
>     A quarter inch might not sound like such a lot, but don't forget the
>     whole Pi-r-Squared thing.
>     So, the original GTS muffler tips have an area of 3.92 inches each, the
>     new ANSAs are 4.71 and Wilkinson's are 5.49.  Multiply each of those by
>     two per pipe, and you start to see a significant difference in
>     potential flow:  7.84 inches versus 9.42 versus 10.89 inches, per
>     muffler.
>     All three have the same inlet pipe size, 2.34 inches; that gives an
>     area of 7.35 inches.
>     Wilkinson's system was available in either mild steel or stainless
>     steel, but he told me he doesn't intend to carry them in mild steel any
>     longer.  Personally I like the way mild steel exhausts sound, and given
>     that they are significantly cheaper, I would opt for those if possible.
>     Note that he had the mufflers made to accomodate the one-piece L-model
>     bumper (a mistake, in my view), but he will modify the angle of the
>     tips to replicate the jaunty upward stance of the original ANSA
>     exhausts for a nominal fee (I think he charges $75 extra).  That's a
>     must for any car that has anything other than a one-piece L rear
>     bumper.
>     My car still wears the original ANSA GTS system, but we got one of
>     Wilkinson's mild steel systems for Lori's car and that will be going on
>     once we get her engine back from Dave McLain....
>     Mike
>
>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
   Question for me is, what was the base HP, Dan Jones got 31 HP more? Was
   it a stock engine or a highly modified? How many percent was it?
   Roland

   Am 08.02.2015 um 12:07 schrieb Mike Drew via DeTomaso:

   In a message dated 2/7/15 21 24 31, [1]mghibli7 at hotmail.com writes:

       I have finally decided to switch back to normal exhaust on my
     Pantera.
        I will keep the 180's.

   >>>Why would you keep them?  Seems to me you should either keep them
   and use them, or switch and sell them to fund the switch?

     >  I want something that looks stock, but flows better.  My car has
     been
       through a few stages.  The one that I enjoyed the most was
     slightly
       modified over stock.  It is currently in the too-modified
     condition.
       It feels like a race car slightly detuned for the street.
       I've been thinking about GTS headers like these:
       [1][2]http://www.precisionproformance.com/ex1015.php.
       Any recommendations on mufflers?  Do any of the vendors sell ANSA
     style
       mufflers that flow better than stock?

   >>>All the vendors sell the factory GTS exhaust system.  They all
   source their ANSA GTS mufflers from Hall, who is the exclusive north
   American distributor for them, and sell them for about the same price.
   The headers are perfect copies of the ANSA originals but made in the
   USA.
   The mufflers are fantastically expensive.  The original GTS mufflers
   are also quite restrictive; Dan Jones dyno tests showed they knocked a
   full 50 hp (!) off from an optimized system (Mustang headers and
   conventional non-Pantera mufflers) in back-to-back tests.
   I gutted my GTS mufflers to improve them, and shipped them to Dan for a
   back-to-back test with unmodified GTS mufflers and was sad to learn
   that I only picked up 12 hp; it wasn't worth the effort to modify
   them.  I concluded that the culprit is the four tips, whose center
   holes are not nearly large enough.  The new-production mufflers no
   longer use resonators; they have chrome tips with an unnecessary
   restriction inside, but they are at least larger inside diameter than
   the old ones were.
   Wilkinson's copy of the GTS exhaust system is brilliant.  Dan
   dyno-tested them and found that they picked up a whopping 31 horspower
   over the factory GTS system.  It comes as a complete system (headers
   and mufflers) and costs barely more than the ANSA GTS mufflers alone.
   It's designed to mimic the appearance of the originals, and does a
   fantastic job of it.  The outside diameter of the tips is 1/4 inch
   larger than the original ANSA tips, barely noticeable (3 inches versus
   2 3/4 inches).  But the inside diameter of the resonators is 1 3/4
   inches versus the 1 1/4 inches of the original ANSAs (the new ANSAs are
   1 1/2 inches, splitting the difference).
   A quarter inch might not sound like such a lot, but don't forget the
   whole Pi-r-Squared thing.
   So, the original GTS muffler tips have an area of 3.92 inches each, the
   new ANSAs are 4.71 and Wilkinson's are 5.49.  Multiply each of those by
   two per pipe, and you start to see a significant difference in
   potential flow:  7.84 inches versus 9.42 versus 10.89 inches, per
   muffler.
   All three have the same inlet pipe size, 2.34 inches; that gives an
   area of 7.35 inches.
   Wilkinson's system was available in either mild steel or stainless
   steel, but he told me he doesn't intend to carry them in mild steel any
   longer.  Personally I like the way mild steel exhausts sound, and given
   that they are significantly cheaper, I would opt for those if possible.
   Note that he had the mufflers made to accomodate the one-piece L-model
   bumper (a mistake, in my view), but he will modify the angle of the
   tips to replicate the jaunty upward stance of the original ANSA
   exhausts for a nominal fee (I think he charges $75 extra).  That's a
   must for any car that has anything other than a one-piece L rear
   bumper.
   My car still wears the original ANSA GTS system, but we got one of
   Wilkinson's mild steel systems for Lori's car and that will be going on
   once we get her engine back from Dave McLain....
   Mike


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References

   1. mailto:mghibli7 at hotmail.com
   2. http://www.precisionproformance.com/ex1015.php
   3. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   4. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com


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