[DeTomaso] NPC: Flash Steel
Bill Moore
bill at incendium.com
Fri Dec 11 19:55:45 EST 2015
Like button
Cheers,
Bill MooreIncendium SupplyCalgary
-------- Original message --------
From: Kirby Schrader <kirbyschrader at mac.com>
Date: 2015-12-11 5:06 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Larry - Ohio Time <Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
Cc: "<detomaso at poca.com>" <DeTomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: Flash Steel
Well, Larry…. You hit me with something I had never heard of.
But, I didn’t feel so bad when neither metallurgist at work said they’d never heard of it either!
And, after reading about it, not surprising.
Wouldn’t work worth a damn in the oil business. Too susceptible to stress corrosion cracking.
Oh, well… Thought maybe you’d found something we could use!
:-)
Kirby
> On Dec 11, 2015, at 11:28, Larry - Ohio Time <Larry at ohiotimecorp.com> wrote:
>
> Flash Bainite
>
> Radically cheaper, quicker and less energy-intensive to produce, Flash
> Bainite is stronger than titanium by weight, and ductile enough to be
> pressed into shape while cold without thinning or cracking. It's now
> being tested by three of the world's five largest car manufacturers,
> who are finding they can produce thinner structural car components that
> are between 30-50 percent lighter and cheaper than the steel they've
> been using, while maintaining the same performance is crash tests.
> Those are revolutionary numbers in the auto space.
>
> Darren Quick did a good job explaining exactly [1]how Flash Bainite is
> produced in our original story, but in basic terms, you take regular,
> off-the-shelf AISI1020 carbon steel, and instead of heat treating it
> for 10 minutes like costly alloyed steel, you put it through a
> roller-driven system that induction-heats and liquid-cools the steel in
> a matter of 10 seconds or so.
>
> Generally, when you choose steel you're trading off between strength
> and ductility. The hardest steels are the martensitic types, but their
> crystalline structure makes them brittle and prone to cracking when you
> press or bend them, so they need to be hot pressed. Flash Bainite
> breaks this rule by delivering a specific strength some 7 percent
> higher than martensitic steel but staying remarkably bendable to the
> point where it can be cold pressed into shapes. The quick heating and
> cooling stages produce a unique mix of fine martensite, bainite and
> carbides - if you want to [2]get all metallurgical about it, [3]knock
> yourself out.
>
> With such characteristics, you could theoretically take anything you're
> making out of martensitic steel and make it stronger and vastly
> cheaper, or take many shapes you're cold pressing out of more ductile
> steel and use vastly thinner Flash Bainite to get the same strength. It
> sounded almost too good to be true, but recent testing from a number of
> different parties appears to be validating the original findings.
>
> In July 2011, [4]US Army tests called it "an extremely energy efficient
> and environmentally friendly process" and concluded that "the costs to
> produce Flash Bainite should be extremely reasonable and could enable
> widespread use for applications requiring very high strength and
> adequate elongation, ductility, and toughness. Current opportunities
> for flash bainite include armor and vehicle applications requiring
> ultra-high strength steels for high specific strength, weight
> reduction, and high cycle fatigue enhancement."
>
> In 2013, a few auto manufacturers (who can't be named due to NDAs)
> began running a series of tests to see how Flash Bainite might perform
> in an automotive setting. Could it be cold pressed into the kinds of
> challenging shapes required by automakers? In short, yes. Flash 1600
> (Flash-processed AISI1020) forms as well as the leading cold-stampable
> "advanced high strength steel" DP1180 that's only 75 percent the
> strength. Here are some sample parts displayed in March 2015, cold
> pressed with no noticeable thinning:
>
> These parts were created in the same sizes and thicknesses as the OEM
> parts, so there's no weight saving per se, but the simple and
> energy-efficient nature of the Flash forming process makes them 1/3 to
> 1/2 less expensive than the process currently used in manufacture.
>
> As this data became available, other auto manufacturers have started
> dipping toes in the water as well. The Flash Project's Gary Cola tells
> us of another major manufacturer that used Flash processed tubing to
> create car door impact beams, roof rails and other parts that were
> built into full cars, then roof crush tested to high test results.
>
> "This OEM found that Flash 1500 could offer a 1/3 mass reduction and
> cost savings over the 'industry standard' DP1000 known at the time to
> be the strongest hydroformable tube," Cola says. "During this
> development, it was discovered that Flash 1500 (Flash-processed
> AISI1020) could be formed into very tight bends, almost as tight as
> simply folding a sheet of paper."
>
> In Flash 1500 energy absorbing crush in this story's lead image, the
> bends are twice the strength of the DP780 cans in cars today.
>
> Another major manufacturer "that makes 10 million vehicles per year,"
> according to Cola, tested Flash-processed steel on a structural/safety
> component of a car that is 3 mm thick and 3 lb (1.4 kg) in weight in
> its current form. Using the flash treatment, a part was created that
> weighs 2 lb (0.9 kg) at 2 mm thick, and passes all the same tests - and
> the OEM estimated it could be made at a cost savings.
>
> There are [5]only three OEMs that can claim that kind of manufacturing
> capacity in the world. Only one of them is headquartered in Detroit
> where the Flash Bainite team is based, and it conveniently happens to
> be locked in [6]a war of words with a competitor that has chosen to go
> to aluminum truck bodies instead of steel. Cola notes, "while aluminum
> is good for hoods, decklids and door skins, Flash offers higher
> strength per pound for structural safety components."
>
> In short, Flash Bainite is starting to look suspiciously like the real
> deal, pointing the way towards significantly lighter cars that are less
> expensive and more environmentally friendly to produce, and every bit
> as safe in a crash - and of course, that's just in the automotive
> world.
>
> Another factor in Flash's favour is an extremely low capital cost of
> entry for companies looking to get involved in the manufacturing
> process.
>
> "The entry point for Flash equipment is about US$300K and a one car
> garage, while large format equipment would only cost $5M to generate
> about $75M in annual sales," Cola tells us. "Imagine if 100s of
> fabrication shops around the country could make higher performing steel
> than the Big Steel Industry can in their $400M seven-story tall
> furnaces."
>
> Having said that, there's currently no large scale manufacture up and
> running. Cola and the Flash Project team are working toward developing
> their own commercial manufacturing operation, but hoping to license the
> Flash technology to other entrepreneurs to get it out into the market.
> If the business side is managed well, this looks like a genuinely
> disruptive shift in manufacturing. We'll keep an eye on it!
>
> Larry (can you weld it?) - Cleveland
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.gizmag.com/stronger-steel-in-a-flash/18882/
> 2. http://amp.digitaledition.asminternational.org/i/211830-nov-dec-2013/50
> 3. http://www.asminternational.org/documents/10192/17082024/Pages+from+HTPro_December_2013_amp17111.pdf/61afa899-7863-4f83-9d5e-a7caa5e22eba
> 4. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:De5vc6d6YPYJ:www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf%3FAD%3DADA588144+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au
> 5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry
> 6. http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/08/16/how-general-motors-will-compete-with-fords-aluminu.aspx
> _______________________________________________
>
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Like button
Cheers,
Bill Moore
Incendium Supply
Calgary
-------- Original message --------
From: Kirby Schrader <kirbyschrader at mac.com>
Date: 2015-12-11 5:06 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Larry - Ohio Time <Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
Cc: "<detomaso at poca.com>" <DeTomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: Flash Steel
Well, Larry.... You hit me with something I had never heard of.
But, I didn't feel so bad when neither metallurgist at work said they'd
never heard of it either!
And, after reading about it, not surprising.
Wouldn't work worth a damn in the oil business. Too susceptible to
stress corrosion cracking.
Oh, well... Thought maybe you'd found something we could use!
:-)
Kirby
> On Dec 11, 2015, at 11:28, Larry - Ohio Time <Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
wrote:
>
> Flash Bainite
>
> Radically cheaper, quicker and less energy-intensive to produce,
Flash
> Bainite is stronger than titanium by weight, and ductile enough to
be
> pressed into shape while cold without thinning or cracking. It's
now
> being tested by three of the world's five largest car
manufacturers,
> who are finding they can produce thinner structural car components
that
> are between 30-50 percent lighter and cheaper than the steel
they've
> been using, while maintaining the same performance is crash tests.
> Those are revolutionary numbers in the auto space.
>
> Darren Quick did a good job explaining exactly [1]how Flash Bainite
is
> produced in our original story, but in basic terms, you take
regular,
> off-the-shelf AISI1020 carbon steel, and instead of heat treating
it
> for 10 minutes like costly alloyed steel, you put it through a
> roller-driven system that induction-heats and liquid-cools the
steel in
> a matter of 10 seconds or so.
>
> Generally, when you choose steel you're trading off between
strength
> and ductility. The hardest steels are the martensitic types, but
their
> crystalline structure makes them brittle and prone to cracking when
you
> press or bend them, so they need to be hot pressed. Flash Bainite
> breaks this rule by delivering a specific strength some 7 percent
> higher than martensitic steel but staying remarkably bendable to
the
> point where it can be cold pressed into shapes. The quick heating
and
> cooling stages produce a unique mix of fine martensite, bainite and
> carbides - if you want to [2]get all metallurgical about it,
[3]knock
> yourself out.
>
> With such characteristics, you could theoretically take anything
you're
> making out of martensitic steel and make it stronger and vastly
> cheaper, or take many shapes you're cold pressing out of more
ductile
> steel and use vastly thinner Flash Bainite to get the same
strength. It
> sounded almost too good to be true, but recent testing from a
number of
> different parties appears to be validating the original findings.
>
> In July 2011, [4]US Army tests called it "an extremely energy
efficient
> and environmentally friendly process" and concluded that "the costs
to
> produce Flash Bainite should be extremely reasonable and could
enable
> widespread use for applications requiring very high strength and
> adequate elongation, ductility, and toughness. Current
opportunities
> for flash bainite include armor and vehicle applications requiring
> ultra-high strength steels for high specific strength, weight
> reduction, and high cycle fatigue enhancement."
>
> In 2013, a few auto manufacturers (who can't be named due to NDAs)
> began running a series of tests to see how Flash Bainite might
perform
> in an automotive setting. Could it be cold pressed into the kinds
of
> challenging shapes required by automakers? In short, yes. Flash
1600
> (Flash-processed AISI1020) forms as well as the leading
cold-stampable
> "advanced high strength steel" DP1180 that's only 75 percent the
> strength. Here are some sample parts displayed in March 2015, cold
> pressed with no noticeable thinning:
>
> These parts were created in the same sizes and thicknesses as the
OEM
> parts, so there's no weight saving per se, but the simple and
> energy-efficient nature of the Flash forming process makes them 1/3
to
> 1/2 less expensive than the process currently used in manufacture.
>
> As this data became available, other auto manufacturers have
started
> dipping toes in the water as well. The Flash Project's Gary Cola
tells
> us of another major manufacturer that used Flash processed tubing
to
> create car door impact beams, roof rails and other parts that were
> built into full cars, then roof crush tested to high test results.
>
> "This OEM found that Flash 1500 could offer a 1/3 mass reduction
and
> cost savings over the 'industry standard' DP1000 known at the time
to
> be the strongest hydroformable tube," Cola says. "During this
> development, it was discovered that Flash 1500 (Flash-processed
> AISI1020) could be formed into very tight bends, almost as tight as
> simply folding a sheet of paper."
>
> In Flash 1500 energy absorbing crush in this story's lead image,
the
> bends are twice the strength of the DP780 cans in cars today.
>
> Another major manufacturer "that makes 10 million vehicles per
year,"
> according to Cola, tested Flash-processed steel on a
structural/safety
> component of a car that is 3 mm thick and 3 lb (1.4 kg) in weight
in
> its current form. Using the flash treatment, a part was created
that
> weighs 2 lb (0.9 kg) at 2 mm thick, and passes all the same tests -
and
> the OEM estimated it could be made at a cost savings.
>
> There are [5]only three OEMs that can claim that kind of
manufacturing
> capacity in the world. Only one of them is headquartered in Detroit
> where the Flash Bainite team is based, and it conveniently happens
to
> be locked in [6]a war of words with a competitor that has chosen to
go
> to aluminum truck bodies instead of steel. Cola notes, "while
aluminum
> is good for hoods, decklids and door skins, Flash offers higher
> strength per pound for structural safety components."
>
> In short, Flash Bainite is starting to look suspiciously like the
real
> deal, pointing the way towards significantly lighter cars that are
less
> expensive and more environmentally friendly to produce, and every
bit
> as safe in a crash - and of course, that's just in the automotive
> world.
>
> Another factor in Flash's favour is an extremely low capital cost
of
> entry for companies looking to get involved in the manufacturing
> process.
>
> "The entry point for Flash equipment is about US$300K and a one car
> garage, while large format equipment would only cost $5M to
generate
> about $75M in annual sales," Cola tells us. "Imagine if 100s of
> fabrication shops around the country could make higher performing
steel
> than the Big Steel Industry can in their $400M seven-story tall
> furnaces."
>
> Having said that, there's currently no large scale manufacture up
and
> running. Cola and the Flash Project team are working toward
developing
> their own commercial manufacturing operation, but hoping to license
the
> Flash technology to other entrepreneurs to get it out into the
market.
> If the business side is managed well, this looks like a genuinely
> disruptive shift in manufacturing. We'll keep an eye on it!
>
> Larry (can you weld it?) - Cleveland
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.gizmag.com/stronger-steel-in-a-flash/18882/
> 2.
http://amp.digitaledition.asminternational.org/i/211830-nov-dec-2013/50
> 3.
http://www.asminternational.org/documents/10192/17082024/Pages+from+HTP
ro_December_2013_amp17111.pdf/61afa899-7863-4f83-9d5e-a7caa5e22eba
> 4.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:De5vc6d6YPYJ:www.d
tic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf%3FAD%3DADA588144+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au
> 5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry
> 6.
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/08/16/how-general-motors-wil
l-compete-with-fords-aluminu.aspx
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
_______________________________________________
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Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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