[DeTomaso] NPC: VMWare

Sean Korb spkorb at gmail.com
Thu Aug 20 10:37:43 EDT 2015


I like them both, and most modern CPUs support paravirtualization... since
like 2008 at least.  I like Docker and BSD Jails and Solaris Zones too, but
in a lot of ways, we're just moving around a huge problem without actually
solving it: configuration management.  These old VMs and containers/modules
get stale really fast and users (like me) really want to use our old tools
as well as the latest ones.  Security is a hassle, and if you get a VM or a
container from someone else, how do you verify it doesn't have a security
flaw or even a trojan of ill will and intent?

This is a huge business that is more or less untapped and while
puppet/Chef/Ansible/Salt can really help give a deployment a software
engineering flavor, I think the idea of *trusted* VMs and containers with
warranty is the next big thing.

Well, okay, I *hope* it's the next big thing.  I don't have a stake in it
except as a consumer but we can't keep on pumping out these VMs without
careful validation.  And that's proven to be pretty tricky... and hard to
justify to a business.

sean

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net> wrote:

>    I highly recommend Oracle's Virtual Box too.A  I host development
>    databases on it in Linux and have installed a few Windows version too,
>    though you do need a separate license for MS stuff.
>
>    Rob DuMoulin
>    904.476.8744
>    [1]rob at dumoulins.net
>    [2]www.kbsi.co
>    [3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>    On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Thomas Tornblom <[4]thomas at hax.se>
>    wrote:
>
>      VirtualBox is pretty good now, and free.
>
>    Den 2015-08-20 15:41, Asa Jay Laughton skrev:
>
>    VMware for personal use was a real PITA for years, and expensive. Once
>    they came out with VMware Player (for free), it became so much easier.
>    I
>    now run VMware Player on my Windows machines and have several different
>    Linux VMs that I can run anytime I want or need to.
>    I've had trouble installing VMware on Linux in order to run Windows
>    stuff, but for the most part Wine on Linux seems to work.
>    Nearly all hosted servers out there in the wild (like GoGaddy and
>    others) are running on VMs. The servers I host are all on VMs. The
>    servers my employer hosts are nearly all on VMs. They've come a heckuva
>    long way.
>    Asa Jay
>    Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>    &A  Shelley Marie
>    Spokane, WA
>    ******************************
>    [5]http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>    [6]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>    [7]http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>    On 8/20/2015 6:23 AM, Larry - Ohio Time wrote:
>
>    Will, I am installing some VM ware as I read your post. I see more and
>    more
>    of it each day.
>    Larry (Novel man) - Cleveland
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: DeTomaso [mailto:[8]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Will
>    Kooiman
>    Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:55 PM
>    To: Ed Mendez
>    Cc: [9]detomaso at poca.com
>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Should we purchase vintage cars for our
>    investment
>    portfolio?
>    I liked Solaris too.A  Proprietary hardware had no future, though.A
>    Sun
>    was
>    doomed regardless of Oracleas involvement.A  The same was true for
>    DEC/Alpha.A  Or maybe you could say that DEC was doomed because of Ken
>    Olsen.A  Water under the bridge.A  Doesnat matter.
>    Weare doing everything on Intel/Linux these days.A  Itas a very stable
>    platform.A  Plus, weare moving more towards VMWare.A  Iam not a big fan
>    of
>    VM from an engineering standpoint, but it makes a lot of sense in the
>    big
>    picture.
>    On 8/19/15, 10:41 PM, "Ed Mendez"<[10]edducati at mac.com>A  wrote:
>
>    I received my Sun Solaris Unix System Admin and Network Certificate in
>    2000, IMHO They were the greatest makers of Unix RISC based equipment
>    and
>    a rock solid OS.
>    At one point Sun was just about on the backend of every Fortune 500
>    company.
>    and Then...
>    Larry Ellison Fad it all up.
>    ORACLE = One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison
>    A shame. I too lost on Sun shares. Pails in comparison to yours. Sorry
>    dude.
>    Ed
>
>    On Aug 19, 2015, at 19:18, Will Kooiman<[11]will.kooiman at gmail.com>A
>    wrote:
>    DonA^1t even get me started on Sun Microsystems.
>    I did stock market software for about 6 years.A  During that time, I
>    was
>    very active in the stock market.A  I had a run for about a year where I
>    made about $850K by day trading.A  I was right at $1M, so I called it
>    quits
>    and bought about $600K in Oracle and about $300K in Sun.A  And then,
>    Larry
>    Ellison fired Ray Lane, and both Oracle and Sun took a dive.A  A year
>    later, my $950K was worth about $90K.A  Numbers are foggy.A  DonA^1t
>    make me
>    look it up.A  I stopped trading for 2-3 years, and briefly got back
>    into
>    the market for a slight rebound, but that really drove home the adage,
>    easy come, easy go.
>    A few years later, the stock market was soft, so my wife sold some
>    mutual
>    funds and bought some art.A  We canA^1t drive it, but we enjoy it.A  It
>    might
>    not be going up in value, but neither was her mutual fund.
>    So, thatA^1s how I view collector cars.A  If you are buying them to
>    store
>    and
>    watch them go up in value, you better be damn good or lucky at buying.
>    If
>    you plan on spending a lot of time with them, wrenching, washing,
>    polishing, or preferably driving them, they pay you back in enjoyment.
>    Nobody ever talks about buying boats for investments.A  Why does
>    everyone
>    try to make it a big deal with sports cars?
>    On 8/19/15, 12:21 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Joseph F. Byrd, Jr."
>    <[12]detomaso-bounces at poca.com on behalf of
>    [13]byrdjf at embarqmail.com>A  wrote:
>
>    I had never seen a LOG scale used to show stock price history!
>    I hope you got the majority of you ESP out!
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: DeTomaso [mailto:[14]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
>    Thomas
>    Tornblom
>    Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:08 AM
>    To: [15]detomaso at poca.com
>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Should we purchase vintage cars for our
>    investment
>    portfolio?
>    I joined Sun in Nov 1996 and got on the employee stock purchase
>    program
>    where we could buy Sun stock for part of our salary, at a 15%
>    discount.
>    In the years they had normally two 1:2 splits per year.
>    You can see the stock price at:
>    [16]http://k0lee.com/2009/10/sun-also-sets/
>    I learned after I had bought the car that my wife was not happy about
>    me
>    buying it, and beeing male I guess I was blind to any hints to that
>    effect.
>    After I explained that if I had kept the Sun Stock it would have only
>    been
>    worth about 1/5:th of what the car was worth, and with the recent hike
>    it
>    is
>    now more like 1/10:th.
>    She's happy now :)
>    Cheers,
>    Thomas
>    Den 2015-08-19 14:12, Sean Korb skrev:
>
>      A  A  I really never thought of it that way... I had very meager
>      retirement
>      A  A  savings at the time but I bought my Pantera with everything I
>      had,
>      A  A  cashed out in 2000.AA  It survived both that recession and the
>      next
>      and
>      A  A  has tripled in value.AA  Not bad!
>      A  A  But that has nothing to do with why I bought it and still own
>      it :)
>      A  A  sean
>      A  A  On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:35 AM, thomas<[1][17]thomas at hax.se>
>      wrote:
>      A  A  A  I sold most of my Sun Microsystems stock to buy my GT5 in
>      March
>      A  A  A  2000. That has turned out to be the best timed deal ever
>      for
>      me.
>      A  A  A  Thomas
>
>      19 aug 2015 kl. 01:10 skrev Jeff
>      Detrich<[2][18]jjdetrich at gmail.com>:
>      AA  A If you had used some of your stock portfolio to buy a classic
>
>      or
>
>      AA  A vintage car just before the stock market crash, it would have
>
>      A  A  saved you
>
>      AA  A from losing a lot of money on those assets. Does that count?
>      AA  A Jeff
>      AA  A On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 6:03 PM, John Taphorn
>      AA  A<[1][3][19]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>A  wrote:
>      AA  AA  A This Bloomberg story greeted me at my office this morning.
>
>      A  A  Here is
>
>      AA  AA  A one person's opinion on vintage cars as an investment.AA
>
>      A  A  Would you
>
>      AA  AA  A agree?
>      AA  A
>
>      A  A  A
>
>    [2][4][20]http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--neve
>    r-
>
>      A  A  a-
>
>      AA  A
>
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>    A  A  --
>    A  A  Sean Korb [15][31]spkorb at spkorb.org [16][32]http://www.spkorb.org
>    A  A  '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71
>    Pantera
>    A  A  #1382
>    A  A  "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
>    A  A  "Computers are useless.AA  They can only give you answers." -P.
>    Picasso
>    References
>    A  A  1. mailto:[33]thomas at hax.se
>    A  A  2. mailto:[34]jjdetrich at gmail.com
>    A  A  3. mailto:[35]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>    A  A  4.
>    [36]http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-a-
>    A  A  5. mailto:[37]DeTomaso at poca.com
>    A  A  6. [38]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>    A  A  7. mailto:[39]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>    A  A  8.
>
>    [40]http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-a-go
>    od-in
>    ve
>    st
>    ment-22791.html?utm_source=PW+Subscribers&utm_campaign=f7ee052d6d-PWN_P
>    W
>    +N
>    ew
>    s_081715&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1899ce8517-f7ee052d6d-232404493
>
>      A  A  9. mailto:[41]DeTomaso at poca.com
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>      A  A 15. mailto:[47]spkorb at spkorb.org
>      A  A 16. [48]http://www.spkorb.org/
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>    --
>    Real life:A  A Thomas TAP:rnblomA  A  A  A  A  A  A Email:A  A  A
>    A [51]thomas at hax.se
>    Snail mail:A  BanvallsvACURgen 14A  A  A  A  A  A  Phone:A  A  [52]+46
>    18 32 31 18
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> References
>
>    1. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
>    2. http://www.kbsi.co/
>    3. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>    4. mailto:thomas at hax.se
>    5. http://www.racingagainstautism.com/
>    6. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
>    7. http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>    8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
>    9. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   10. mailto:edducati at mac.com
>   11. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
>   12. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
>   13. mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
>   14. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
>   15. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   16. http://k0lee.com/2009/10/sun-also-sets/
>   17. mailto:thomas at hax.se
>   18. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
>   19. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>   20. http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-
>   21. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   22. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   23. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>   24. http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-a-goo
>   25. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   26. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   29. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   30. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   31. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
>   32. http://www.spkorb.org/
>   33. mailto:thomas at hax.se
>   34. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
>   35. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>   36. http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-a-
>   37. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   38. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   39. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>   40.
> http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-a-good-in
>   41. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   42. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   43. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   44. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   45. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   46. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   47. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
>   48. http://www.spkorb.org/
>   49. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   50. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   51. mailto:thomas at hax.se
>   52. tel:%2B46%2018%2032%2031%2018
>   53. tel:%2B46%2076%20209%208320
>   54. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   55. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   56. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   57. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   58. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   59. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   60. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   61. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   62. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   63. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   64. http://www.avg.com/
>   65. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   66. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   67. mailto:thomas at hax.se
>   68. tel:%2B46%2018%2032%2031%2018
>   69. tel:%2B46%2076%20209%208320
>   70. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   71. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
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-- 
Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
-------------- next part --------------
   I like them both, and most modern CPUs support paravirtualization...
   since like 2008 at least.A  I like Docker and BSD Jails and Solaris
   Zones too, but in a lot of ways, we're just moving around a huge
   problem without actually solving it: configuration management.A  These
   old VMs and containers/modules get stale really fast and users (like
   me) really want to use our old tools as well as the latest ones.A
   Security is a hassle, and if you get a VM or a container from someone
   else, how do you verify it doesn't have a security flaw or even a
   trojan of ill will and intent?A
   This is a huge business that is more or less untapped and while
   puppet/Chef/Ansible/Salt can really help give a deployment a software
   engineering flavor, I think the idea of *trusted* VMs and containers
   with warranty is the next big thing.
   Well, okay, I *hope* it's the next big thing.A  I don't have a stake in
   it except as a consumer but we can't keep on pumping out these VMs
   without careful validation.A  And that's proven to be pretty tricky...
   and hard to justify to a business.
   sean

   On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Rob Dumoulin <[1]rob at dumoulins.net>
   wrote:

     A  A I highly recommend Oracle's Virtual Box too.AA  I host
     development
     A  A databases on it in Linux and have installed a few Windows
     version too,
     A  A though you do need a separate license for MS stuff.
     A  A Rob DuMoulin
     A  A [2]904.476.8744
     A  A [1][3]rob at dumoulins.net
     A  A [2][4]www.kbsi.co
     A  A [3][5]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
     A  A On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Thomas Tornblom
     <[4][6]thomas at hax.se>
     A  A wrote:
     A  A  A VirtualBox is pretty good now, and free.
     A  A Den 2015-08-20 15:41, Asa Jay Laughton skrev:
     A  A VMware for personal use was a real PITA for years, and
     expensive. Once
     A  A they came out with VMware Player (for free), it became so much
     easier.
     A  A I
     A  A now run VMware Player on my Windows machines and have several
     different
     A  A Linux VMs that I can run anytime I want or need to.
     A  A I've had trouble installing VMware on Linux in order to run
     Windows
     A  A stuff, but for the most part Wine on Linux seems to work.
     A  A Nearly all hosted servers out there in the wild (like GoGaddy
     and
     A  A others) are running on VMs. The servers I host are all on VMs.
     The
     A  A servers my employer hosts are nearly all on VMs. They've come a
     heckuva
     A  A long way.
     A  A Asa Jay
     A  A Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
     A  A &AA  Shelley Marie
     A  A Spokane, WA
     A  A ******************************
     A  A [5][7]http://www.racingagainstautism.com
     A  A [6][8]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
     A  A [7][9]http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
     A  A On 8/20/2015 6:23 AM, Larry - Ohio Time wrote:
     A  A Will, I am installing some VM ware as I read your post. I see
     more and
     A  A more
     A  A of it each day.
     A  A Larry (Novel man) - Cleveland
     A  A -----Original Message-----
     A  A From: DeTomaso [mailto:[8][10]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
     Behalf Of Will
     A  A Kooiman
     A  A Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:55 PM
     A  A To: Ed Mendez
     A  A Cc: [9][11]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Should we purchase vintage cars for our
     A  A investment
     A  A portfolio?
     A  A I liked Solaris too.AA  Proprietary hardware had no future,
     though.A
     A  A Sun
     A  A was
     A  A doomed regardless of Oracleas involvement.AA  The same was true
     for
     A  A DEC/Alpha.AA  Or maybe you could say that DEC was doomed
     because of Ken
     A  A Olsen.AA  Water under the bridge.AA  Doesnat matter.
     A  A Weare doing everything on Intel/Linux these days.AA  Itas a
     very stable
     A  A platform.AA  Plus, weare moving more towards VMWare.AA  Iam not
     a big fan
     A  A of
     A  A VM from an engineering standpoint, but it makes a lot of sense
     in the
     A  A big
     A  A picture.
     A  A On 8/19/15, 10:41 PM, "Ed Mendez"<[10][12]edducati at mac.com>AA
     wrote:
     A  A I received my Sun Solaris Unix System Admin and Network
     Certificate in
     A  A 2000, IMHO They were the greatest makers of Unix RISC based
     equipment
     A  A and
     A  A a rock solid OS.
     A  A At one point Sun was just about on the backend of every Fortune
     500
     A  A company.
     A  A and Then...
     A  A Larry Ellison Fad it all up.
     A  A ORACLE = One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison
     A  A A shame. I too lost on Sun shares. Pails in comparison to
     yours. Sorry
     A  A dude.
     A  A Ed
     A  A On Aug 19, 2015, at 19:18, Will
     Kooiman<[11][13]will.kooiman at gmail.com>A
     A  A wrote:
     A  A DonA^1t even get me started on Sun Microsystems.
     A  A I did stock market software for about 6 years.AA  During that
     time, I
     A  A was
     A  A very active in the stock market.AA  I had a run for about a
     year where I
     A  A made about $850K by day trading.AA  I was right at $1M, so I
     called it
     A  A quits
     A  A and bought about $600K in Oracle and about $300K in Sun.AA  And
     then,
     A  A Larry
     A  A Ellison fired Ray Lane, and both Oracle and Sun took a dive.AA
     A year
     A  A later, my $950K was worth about $90K.AA  Numbers are foggy.AA
     DonA^1t
     A  A make me
     A  A look it up.AA  I stopped trading for 2-3 years, and briefly got
     back
     A  A into
     A  A the market for a slight rebound, but that really drove home the
     adage,
     A  A easy come, easy go.
     A  A A few years later, the stock market was soft, so my wife sold
     some
     A  A mutual
     A  A funds and bought some art.AA  We canA^1t drive it, but we enjoy
     it.AA  It
     A  A might
     A  A not be going up in value, but neither was her mutual fund.
     A  A So, thatA^1s how I view collector cars.AA  If you are buying
     them to
     A  A store
     A  A and
     A  A watch them go up in value, you better be damn good or lucky at
     buying.
     A  A If
     A  A you plan on spending a lot of time with them, wrenching,
     washing,
     A  A polishing, or preferably driving them, they pay you back in
     enjoyment.
     A  A Nobody ever talks about buying boats for investments.AA  Why
     does
     A  A everyone
     A  A try to make it a big deal with sports cars?
     A  A On 8/19/15, 12:21 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Joseph F. Byrd,
     Jr."
     A  A <[12][14]detomaso-bounces at poca.com on behalf of
     A  A [13][15]byrdjf at embarqmail.com>AA  wrote:
     A  A I had never seen a LOG scale used to show stock price history!
     A  A I hope you got the majority of you ESP out!
     A  A -----Original Message-----
     A  A From: DeTomaso [mailto:[14][16]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
     Behalf Of
     A  A Thomas
     A  A Tornblom
     A  A Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:08 AM
     A  A To: [15][17]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Should we purchase vintage cars for our
     A  A investment
     A  A portfolio?
     A  A I joined Sun in Nov 1996 and got on the employee stock purchase
     A  A program
     A  A where we could buy Sun stock for part of our salary, at a 15%
     A  A discount.
     A  A In the years they had normally two 1:2 splits per year.
     A  A You can see the stock price at:
     A  A [16][18]http://k0lee.com/2009/10/sun-also-sets/
     A  A I learned after I had bought the car that my wife was not happy
     about
     A  A me
     A  A buying it, and beeing male I guess I was blind to any hints to
     that
     A  A effect.
     A  A After I explained that if I had kept the Sun Stock it would
     have only
     A  A been
     A  A worth about 1/5:th of what the car was worth, and with the
     recent hike
     A  A it
     A  A is
     A  A now more like 1/10:th.
     A  A She's happy now :)
     A  A Cheers,
     A  A Thomas
     A  A Den 2015-08-19 14:12, Sean Korb skrev:
     A  A  A AA  AA  I really never thought of it that way... I had very
     meager
     A  A  A retirement
     A  A  A AA  AA  savings at the time but I bought my Pantera with
     everything I
     A  A  A had,
     A  A  A AA  AA  cashed out in 2000.AAA  It survived both that
     recession and the
     A  A  A next
     A  A  A and
     A  A  A AA  AA  has tripled in value.AAA  Not bad!
     A  A  A AA  AA  But that has nothing to do with why I bought it and
     still own
     A  A  A it :)
     A  A  A AA  AA  sean
     A  A  A AA  AA  On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:35 AM,
     thomas<[1][17][19]thomas at hax.se>
     A  A  A wrote:
     A  A  A AA  AA  AA  I sold most of my Sun Microsystems stock to buy
     my GT5 in
     A  A  A March
     A  A  A AA  AA  AA  2000. That has turned out to be the best timed
     deal ever
     A  A  A for
     A  A  A me.
     A  A  A AA  AA  AA  Thomas
     A  A  A 19 aug 2015 kl. 01:10 skrev Jeff
     A  A  A Detrich<[2][18][20]jjdetrich at gmail.com>:
     A  A  A AAA  A If you had used some of your stock portfolio to buy a
     classic
     A  A  A or
     A  A  A AAA  A vintage car just before the stock market crash, it
     would have
     A  A  A AA  AA  saved you
     A  A  A AAA  A from losing a lot of money on those assets. Does that
     count?
     A  A  A AAA  A Jeff
     A  A  A AAA  A On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 6:03 PM, John Taphorn
     A  A  A AAA  A<[1][3][19][21]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>AA  wrote:
     A  A  A AAA  AAA  A This Bloomberg story greeted me at my office
     this morning.
     A  A  A AA  AA  Here is
     A  A  A AAA  AAA  A one person's opinion on vintage cars as an
     investment.AA
     A  A  A AA  AA  Would you
     A  A  A AAA  AAA  A agree?
     A  A  A AAA  A
     A  A  A AA  AA  A
     A
     A [2][4][20][22]http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--alm
     ost--neve
     A  A r-
     A  A  A AA  AA  a-
     A  A  A AAA  A
     A  A  A AA  AA  A
     A  A
     A good-investment-22791.html?utm_source=PW+Subscribers&utm_campaign=
     f7
     A  A  A AAA  A
     A  A  A AA  AA  A
     A  A
     A ee052d6d-PWN_PW+News_081715&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1899ce8517
     -f
     A  A  A AAA  AAA  A 7ee052d6d-232404493
     A  A  A AAA  AAA  A JT
     A  A  A AAA  AAA  A _______________________________________________
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     A  A  A AAA  AAA  A [3][5][21][23]DeTomaso at poca.com
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     A [4][6][22][24]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A AAA  AAA  A To manage your subscription (change email
     address,
     A  A  A AA  AA  unsubscribe,
     A  A  A AAA  AAA  A etc.) use the links above.
     A  A  A References
     A  A  A AAA  A 1. mailto:[7][23][25]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
     A  A  A AAA  A 2.
     A
     A [8][24][26]http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost
     --never-a
     A  A -goo
     A
     A d-investment-22791.html?utm_source=PW+Subscribers&utm_campaign=f7e
     e052d
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     A 6d-PWN_PW+News_081715&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1899ce8517-f7ee0
     52d6d
     A  A AA  AA  -232404493
     A  A  A AAA  A 3. mailto:[9][25][27]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A AAA  A 4.
     [10][26][28]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A _______________________________________________
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     A  A  A DeTomaso mailing list
     A  A  A [11][27][29]DeTomaso at poca.com
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     A [12][28][30]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A To manage your subscription (change email address,
     unsubscribe,
     A  A AA  AA  AA  etc.) use the links above.
     A  A AA  AA  AA  _______________________________________________
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     A  A AA  AA
     [14][30][32]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A AA  AA  To manage your subscription (change email address,
     unsubscribe,
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     A  A AA  AA  use the links above.
     A  A AA  AA  --
     A  A AA  AA  Sean Korb [15][31][33]spkorb at spkorb.org
     [16][32][34]http://www.spkorb.org
     A  A AA  AA  '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59
     A35,'71
     A  A Pantera
     A  A AA  AA  #1382
     A  A AA  AA  "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get"
     --Miller
     A  A AA  AA  "Computers are useless.AAA  They can only give you
     answers." -P.
     A  A Picasso
     A  A References
     A  A AA  AA  1. mailto:[33][35]thomas at hax.se
     A  A AA  AA  2. mailto:[34][36]jjdetrich at gmail.com
     A  A AA  AA  3. mailto:[35][37]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
     A  A AA  AA  4.
     A
     A [36][38]http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--n
     ever-a-
     A  A AA  AA  5. mailto:[37][39]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A AA  AA  6.
     [38][40]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A AA  AA  7. mailto:[39][41]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
     A  A AA  AA  8.
     A
     A [40][42]http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--n
     ever-a-go
     A  A od-in
     A  A ve
     A  A st
     A
     A ment-22791.html?utm_source=PW+Subscribers&utm_campaign=f7ee052d6d-
     PWN_P
     A  A W
     A  A +N
     A  A ew
     A
     A s_081715&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1899ce8517-f7ee052d6d-2324044
     93
     A  A  A AA  AA  9. mailto:[41][43]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A AA  A 10.
     [42][44]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A AA  A 11. mailto:[43][45]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A AA  A 12.
     [44][46]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A AA  A 13. mailto:[45][47]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A AA  A 14.
     [46][48]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A AA  A 15. mailto:[47][49]spkorb at spkorb.org
     A  A  A AA  A 16. [48][50]http://www.spkorb.org/
     A  A  A !DSPAM:55d487ac2166153625052!
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     A  A --
     A  A Real life:AA  A Thomas TAP:rnblomAA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A
     Email:AA  AA  A
     A  A A [51][53]thomas at hax.se
     A  A Snail mail:AA  BanvallsvACURgen 14AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA
     Phone:AA  AA  [52]+46
     A  A 18 32 31 18
     A  A AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A S - 754 40 Uppsala, SwedenAA
     Mobile:AA  A [53]+46 76
     A  A 209 8320
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     A  A Real life:AA  A Thomas TAP:rnblomAA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A
     Email:AA  A
     A  A [67][67]thomas at hax.se
     A  A Snail mail:AA  BanvallsvACURgen 14AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA
     Phone:AA  AA  [68]+46
     A  A 18 32 31 18
     A  A AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A S - 754 40 Uppsala, SwedenAA
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     References
     A  A 1. mailto:[70]rob at dumoulins.net
     A  A 2. [71]http://www.kbsi.co/
     A  A 3. [72]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
     A  A 4. mailto:[73]thomas at hax.se
     A  A 5. [74]http://www.racingagainstautism.com/
     A  A 6. [75]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
     A  A 7. [76]http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
     A  A 8. mailto:[77]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
     A  A 9. mailto:[78]detomaso at poca.com
     A  10. mailto:[79]edducati at mac.com
     A  11. mailto:[80]will.kooiman at gmail.com
     A  12. mailto:[81]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
     A  13. mailto:[82]byrdjf at embarqmail.com
     A  14. mailto:[83]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
     A  15. mailto:[84]detomaso at poca.com
     A  16. [85]http://k0lee.com/2009/10/sun-also-sets/
     A  17. mailto:[86]thomas at hax.se
     A  18. mailto:[87]jjdetrich at gmail.com
     A  19. mailto:[88]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
     A  20.
     [89]http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-
     A  21. mailto:[90]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  22. [91]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  23. mailto:[92]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
     A  24.
     [93]http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-a
     -goo
     A  25. mailto:[94]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  26. [95]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  27. mailto:[96]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  28. [97]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  29. mailto:[98]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  30. [99]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  31. mailto:[100]spkorb at spkorb.org
     A  32. [101]http://www.spkorb.org/
     A  33. mailto:[102]thomas at hax.se
     A  34. mailto:[103]jjdetrich at gmail.com
     A  35. mailto:[104]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
     A  36.
     [105]http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-
     a-
     A  37. mailto:[106]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  38. [107]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  39. mailto:[108]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
     A  40.
     [109]http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-
     a-good-in
     A  41. mailto:[110]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  42. [111]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  43. mailto:[112]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  44. [113]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  45. mailto:[114]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  46. [115]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  47. mailto:[116]spkorb at spkorb.org
     A  48. [117]http://www.spkorb.org/
     A  49. mailto:[118]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  50. [119]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  51. mailto:[120]thomas at hax.se
     A  52. tel:%2B46%2018%2032%2031%2018
     A  53. tel:%2B46%2076%20209%208320
     A  54. mailto:[121]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  55. [122]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  56. mailto:[123]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  57. [124]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  58. mailto:[125]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  59. [126]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  60. mailto:[127]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  61. [128]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  62. mailto:[129]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  63. [130]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  64. [131]http://www.avg.com/
     A  65. mailto:[132]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  66. [133]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  67. mailto:[134]thomas at hax.se
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     A  70. mailto:[135]DeTomaso at poca.com
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   #1382
   "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
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References

   1. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
   2. tel:904.476.8744
   3. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
   4. http://www.kbsi.co/
   5. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
   6. mailto:thomas at hax.se
   7. http://www.racingagainstautism.com/
   8. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
   9. http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
  10. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
  11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  12. mailto:edducati at mac.com
  13. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
  14. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
  15. mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
  16. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
  17. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  18. http://k0lee.com/2009/10/sun-also-sets/
  19. mailto:thomas at hax.se
  20. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
  21. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
  22. http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--neve
  23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  25. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
  26. http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-a
  27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  29. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  30. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  33. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
  34. http://www.spkorb.org/
  35. mailto:thomas at hax.se
  36. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
  37. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
  38. http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-a-
  39. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  40. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  41. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
  42. http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-a-go
  43. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  44. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  45. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  46. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  47. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  48. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  49. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
  50. http://www.spkorb.org/
  51. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  52. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  53. mailto:thomas at hax.se
  54. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  55. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  56. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  57. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  58. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  59. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  60. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  61. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  62. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  63. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  64. http://www.avg.com/
  65. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  66. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  67. mailto:thomas at hax.se
  68. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  69. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  70. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
  71. http://www.kbsi.co/
  72. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
  73. mailto:thomas at hax.se
  74. http://www.racingagainstautism.com/
  75. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  76. http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
  77. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
  78. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  79. mailto:edducati at mac.com
  80. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
  81. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
  82. mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
  83. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
  84. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  85. http://k0lee.com/2009/10/sun-also-sets/
  86. mailto:thomas at hax.se
  87. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
  88. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
  89. http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-
  90. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  91. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  92. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
  93. http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-a-goo
  94. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  95. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  96. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  97. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  98. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  99. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 100. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
 101. http://www.spkorb.org/
 102. mailto:thomas at hax.se
 103. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
 104. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
 105. http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-a-
 106. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 107. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 108. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
 109. http://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-a-classic-car-is--almost--never-a-good-in
 110. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 111. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 112. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 113. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 114. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 115. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 116. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
 117. http://www.spkorb.org/
 118. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 119. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 120. mailto:thomas at hax.se
 121. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 122. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 123. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 124. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 125. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 126. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 127. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 128. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 129. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 130. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 131. http://www.avg.com/
 132. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 133. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 134. mailto:thomas at hax.se
 135. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 136. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 137. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 138. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 139. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
 140. http://www.spkorb.org/


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