[DeTomaso] DoT 3 vs. DoT 4 for brakes

Stephen steve at snclocks.com
Sun Apr 5 13:56:34 EDT 2015 

Good question Larry.  I just keep pulling alcohol through the system till it
comes out clear.  On my Pantera, which had brake issues, I flushed the
system clean before opening everything up.  I was very pleased at how little
liquid was left behind.  As in things were pretty dry.  Course, rust, wet or
dry, is still rust.  Suggests that when I am sucking the alcohol out under
vacuum I get enough velocity to get some good swirling.  

 

So - how do I pull a vacuum and separate liquids?  Take a glass jar with a
metal top.  A gallon pickle jar is great.  Poke two holes in the metal top -
one for a hose to fit in snugly, the other a bit bigger.  Space the holes so
you can put the end of the hose from your shop vac over it.  Or, heck, if
yoy want to use your engine as a vacuum source, size the second hole for a
hose to go to a manifold port on your engine.  None the less, with the first
hose hooked up to a bleeder that is opened, turn on the vacuum and watch the
liquid accumulate in the jar.  

 

When liquid has quit coming out, you can either hook the bleeders up to the
engine directly, one by one, or hook up any other handy vacuum source you
may have.  Old refrigerator compressors come to mind.

 

Stephen Nelson

 

 

From: Larry Weston [mailto:lplugw at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2015 3:59 AM
To: Stephen; 'Detomaso Forum'
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] DoT 3 vs. DoT 4 for brakes

 

How do you drain the calipers? Anything short of removing the calipers and
inverting them to put the bleeder at the lowest point during your
pressure/vacuum operation will leave the wrong stuff behind, no? Even that
might be questionable considering the internal porting between the inner and
outer sections of typical front calipers. Only absolutely sure method to
really get it right is as below: disassembly, cleaning and reassembly of the
entire system.

 

 

> From: steve at snclocks.com <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> 
> To: detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com> 
> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 18:55:24 -0700
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DoT 3 vs. DoT 4 for brakes
> 
> When I buy a car with Dot 3/4 I drain out the fluid, fill the reservoir
with 91% isopropyl alcohol, pressure it through the system to clean out the
3/4, then evacuate through each corner with vacuum (the engine makes a great
vacuum source). When dry I refill with Dot 5 and bleed appropriately. Works
like a champ. 
> 
> Stephen Nelson
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Pantdino
via DeTomaso
> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2015 2:12 PM
> To: shbailey at att.net <mailto:shbailey at att.net> ; detomaso at poca.com
<mailto:detomaso at poca.com> 
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DoT 3 vs. DoT 4 for brakes
> 
> 
> That's a whole other discussion.
> If you switch to it, technically you should disassemble the entire braking
system and clean out the old fluid because whatever non-silicone fluid is in
there will have some moisture in it and corrode the system wherever it is.
> Also, it tends to trap air bubbles and give a squishy pedal.
> 
> That said, millions of people use silicone fluid and don't have problems.
> 
> But its mainly for collector cars where a bit of paint damage below the
master cylinder would be catastrophic and they are not driven very hard.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam <shbailey at att.net <mailto:shbailey at att.net> >
> To: Detomaso Forum <detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com> >
> Sent: Sat, Apr 4, 2015 4:50 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DoT 3 vs. DoT 4 for brakes
> 
> 
> I only use a DOT 5 (Silicone) in my non ABS cars including the Pantera.
> Does
> not absorb moisture like DOT 3 and 4, does not eat paint, and
> never has
> leaked for me.
> 
> 
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> 
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-------------- next part --------------
   Good question Larry.  I just keep pulling alcohol through the system
   till it comes out clear.  On my Pantera, which had brake issues, I
   flushed the system clean before opening everything up.  I was very
   pleased at how little liquid was left behind.  As in things were pretty
   dry.  Course, rust, wet or dry, is still rust.  Suggests that when I am
   sucking the alcohol out under vacuum I get enough velocity to get some
   good swirling.


   So - how do I pull a vacuum and separate liquids?  Take a glass jar
   with a metal top.  A gallon pickle jar is great.  Poke two holes in the
   metal top - one for a hose to fit in snugly, the other a bit bigger.
   Space the holes so you can put the end of the hose from your shop vac
   over it.  Or, heck, if yoy want to use your engine as a vacuum source,
   size the second hole for a hose to go to a manifold port on your
   engine.  None the less, with the first hose hooked up to a bleeder that
   is opened, turn on the vacuum and watch the liquid accumulate in the
   jar.


   When liquid has quit coming out, you can either hook the bleeders up to
   the engine directly, one by one, or hook up any other handy vacuum
   source you may have.  Old refrigerator compressors come to mind.


   Stephen Nelson



   From: Larry Weston [mailto:lplugw at hotmail.com]
   Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2015 3:59 AM
   To: Stephen; 'Detomaso Forum'
   Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] DoT 3 vs. DoT 4 for brakes


   How do you drain the calipers? Anything short of removing the calipers
   and inverting them to put the bleeder at the lowest point during your
   pressure/vacuum operation will leave the wrong stuff behind, no? Even
   that might be questionable considering the internal porting between the
   inner and outer sections of typical front calipers. Only absolutely
   sure method to really get it right is as below: disassembly, cleaning
   and reassembly of the entire system.



   > From: [1]steve at snclocks.com
   > To: [2]detomaso at poca.com
   > Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 18:55:24 -0700
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DoT 3 vs. DoT 4 for brakes
   >
   > When I buy a car with Dot 3/4 I drain out the fluid, fill the
   reservoir with 91% isopropyl alcohol, pressure it through the system to
   clean out the 3/4, then evacuate through each corner with vacuum (the
   engine makes a great vacuum source). When dry I refill with Dot 5 and
   bleed appropriately. Works like a champ.
   >
   > Stephen Nelson
   >
   >
   > -----Original Message-----
   > From: DeTomaso [[3]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
   Pantdino via DeTomaso
   > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2015 2:12 PM
   > To: [4]shbailey at att.net; [5]detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DoT 3 vs. DoT 4 for brakes
   >
   >
   > That's a whole other discussion.
   > If you switch to it, technically you should disassemble the entire
   braking system and clean out the old fluid because whatever
   non-silicone fluid is in there will have some moisture in it and
   corrode the system wherever it is.
   > Also, it tends to trap air bubbles and give a squishy pedal.
   >
   > That said, millions of people use silicone fluid and don't have
   problems.
   >
   > But its mainly for collector cars where a bit of paint damage below
   the master cylinder would be catastrophic and they are not driven very
   hard.
   >
   >
   > -----Original Message-----
   > From: Sam <[6]shbailey at att.net>
   > To: Detomaso Forum <[7]detomaso at poca.com>
   > Sent: Sat, Apr 4, 2015 4:50 am
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DoT 3 vs. DoT 4 for brakes
   >
   >
   > I only use a DOT 5 (Silicone) in my non ABS cars including the
   Pantera.
   > Does
   > not absorb moisture like DOT 3 and 4, does not eat paint, and
   > never has
   > leaked for me.
   >
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   > Detomaso Forum Managed by
   > POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
   [8]DeTomaso at poca.com
   [9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > To
   > manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > [10]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > [11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.

References

   1. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
   2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   3. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
   4. mailto:shbailey at att.net
   5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   6. mailto:shbailey at att.net
   7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

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