[DeTomaso] Pantera flywheel and engine balance
Forest Goodhart
forestg at att.net
Sun Sep 28 00:31:43 EDT 2014
A good balancing shop can match the new flywheel balance to the one used to balance the rotating assembly.
________________________________
From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
To: detomaso at poca.com
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera flywheel and engine balance
John,
You bring up an interesting question.
If an engine was balanced with a flexplate for an automatic
transmission. Should the entire reciprocating assembly be re-balanced
if the engine will be re-purposed in a manual transmission car using a
new flywheel and clutch? Or can the new flywheel and clutch be balanced
without disassembling the engine?
I think, based on my limited knowledge, the entire assembly needs to be
balanced.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
http://www.racingagainstautism.com/
http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
On 9/27/2014 8:17 PM, John Taphorn wrote:
> Jerry
>
> I would encourage you to rebalance the assembly with the flywheel that
> you intend to use. If you think about it, should any of the bolt
> holes or the 28oz offset be slightly different, you will have an
> unacceptable result. To me, it is analogous to the importance of
> degreeing a cam. Different manufacturers have different standards for
> an acceptable tolerance and when combining the parts it is necessary
> to confirm they all add up properly to provide the intended result.
>
> I've learned the hard way, I once changed out a pressure plate with
> terrible results that required removing the ZF.
>
> JT
> On 9/27/2014 10:04 PM, Jerry Knotts wrote:
>>
>> The flywheel is a generic Procomp 351C wheel that I have only used
>> with engines on my engine test stand. I sent it with the other parts
>> just to provide the 28 inoz wheel for the balance of the other parts.
>>
>> On 9/27/2014 9:04 PM, Mike Drew wrote:
>>> Jerry,
>>>
>>> A Pantera clutch bolts right up to any ford flywheel.
>>>
>>> A Pantera Centerforce clutch doesn't fit anything except a
>>> Centerforce flywheel. To bolt it to a standard flywheel the flywheel
>>> needs to be redrilled. It has to be done perfectly or else the
>>> clutch won't be centered and it will create a huge imbalance.
>>>
>>> Presuming you have a Centerforce, I would scrap it and buy a proper
>>> McLeod Pantera clutch. It will bolt right on and let you preserve
>>> your balance.
>>>
>>> Good luck!
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2014, at 18:48, Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Old timers has me and I know this has been answered a number of
>>>> times on flywheel teeth and balance - but-
>>>> Having an engine built and have run into a sticking point on my 351C.
>>>> The new engine has been through a balance process with a generic
>>>> flywheel and we are getting ready to assemble the short block. I
>>>> think the flywheel is a 164 tooth 28 oz model. I have been using
>>>> it on my engine stand for run in purposes. Checked a pressure
>>>> plate for it and the mounting holes are not correct for a Pantera
>>>> clutch. Haven't worried about a specific flywheel thinking that I
>>>> would just change flywheels and make sure the balance of the new
>>>> one matched the old one. The machinist told me today that if I use
>>>> another flywheel it needs to be balanced to the bob weights of the
>>>> pistons, rods, crank a harmonic balancer being used on this
>>>> particular engine. This means that the engine can't be assembled
>>>> until I get a functional flywheel.
>>>>
>>>> Is it correct that the flywheel must be balanced with the rotating
>>>> mass and can't be changed to another flywheel later??
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>> jerry
>>>>
>>>> PS Entered my black 71 twin turbo in a large car show today in the
>>>> Import class. Was disappointed that I lost out to a Ferrari kit
>>>> car, and 2 mid 60s Volkswagens. I was going to ask for a Senior
>>>> Innovation Exemption since mine isn't a Corvette, Mustang, shoebox
>>>> Chevrolet or a Model A.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
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>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
A good balancing shop can match the new flywheel balance to the one
used to balance the rotating assembly.
From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
To: detomaso at poca.com
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera flywheel and engine balance
John,
You bring up an interesting question.
If an engine was balanced with a flexplate for an automatic
transmission. Should the entire reciprocating assembly be re-balanced
if the engine will be re-purposed in a manual transmission car using a
new flywheel and clutch? Or can the new flywheel and clutch be
balanced
without disassembling the engine?
I think, based on my limited knowledge, the entire assembly needs to be
balanced.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[1]http://www.racingagainstautism.com/
[2]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
[3]http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
On 9/27/2014 8:17 PM, John Taphorn wrote:
> Jerry
>
> I would encourage you to rebalance the assembly with the flywheel
that
> you intend to use. If you think about it, should any of the bolt
> holes or the 28oz offset be slightly different, you will have an
> unacceptable result. To me, it is analogous to the importance of
> degreeing a cam. Different manufacturers have different standards
for
> an acceptable tolerance and when combining the parts it is necessary
> to confirm they all add up properly to provide the intended result.
>
> I've learned the hard way, I once changed out a pressure plate with
> terrible results that required removing the ZF.
>
> JT
> On 9/27/2014 10:04 PM, Jerry Knotts wrote:
>>
>> The flywheel is a generic Procomp 351C wheel that I have only used
>> with engines on my engine test stand. I sent it with the other
parts
>> just to provide the 28 inoz wheel for the balance of the other
parts.
>>
>> On 9/27/2014 9:04 PM, Mike Drew wrote:
>>> Jerry,
>>>
>>> A Pantera clutch bolts right up to any ford flywheel.
>>>
>>> A Pantera Centerforce clutch doesn't fit anything except a
>>> Centerforce flywheel. To bolt it to a standard flywheel the
flywheel
>>> needs to be redrilled. It has to be done perfectly or else the
>>> clutch won't be centered and it will create a huge imbalance.
>>>
>>> Presuming you have a Centerforce, I would scrap it and buy a proper
>>> McLeod Pantera clutch. It will bolt right on and let you preserve
>>> your balance.
>>>
>>> Good luck!
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2014, at 18:48, Jerry Knotts <[4]knottsj at galstar.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>>> Old timers has me and I know this has been answered a number of
>>>> times on flywheel teeth and balance - but-
>>>> Having an engine built and have run into a sticking point on my
351C.
>>>> The new engine has been through a balance process with a generic
>>>> flywheel and we are getting ready to assemble the short block. I
>>>> think the flywheel is a 164 tooth 28 oz model. I have been using
>>>> it on my engine stand for run in purposes. Checked a pressure
>>>> plate for it and the mounting holes are not correct for a Pantera
>>>> clutch. Haven't worried about a specific flywheel thinking that I
>>>> would just change flywheels and make sure the balance of the new
>>>> one matched the old one. The machinist told me today that if I
use
>>>> another flywheel it needs to be balanced to the bob weights of the
>>>> pistons, rods, crank a harmonic balancer being used on this
>>>> particular engine. This means that the engine can't be assembled
>>>> until I get a functional flywheel.
>>>>
>>>> Is it correct that the flywheel must be balanced with the rotating
>>>> mass and can't be changed to another flywheel later??
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>> jerry
>>>>
>>>> PS Entered my black 71 twin turbo in a large car show today in the
>>>> Import class. Was disappointed that I lost out to a Ferrari kit
>>>> car, and 2 mid 60s Volkswagens. I was going to ask for a Senior
>>>> Innovation Exemption since mine isn't a Corvette, Mustang, shoebox
>>>> Chevrolet or a Model A.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> [5]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> [6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [7]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>
>
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>
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>
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> [9]DeTomaso at poca.com
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>
>
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> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4025/8286 - Release Date:
09/27/14
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>
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References
1. http://www.racingagainstautism.com/
2. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
3. http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
4. mailto:knottsj at galstar.com
5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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