[DeTomaso] polish ZF cost estimate

michael at michaelshortt.com michael at michaelshortt.com
Sun Sep 14 19:18:55 EDT 2014


I vote for black.

Michael



On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:

> An unrelated question.  Since I am having a rebuilt engine installed (a
> 408 stroked Cleveland, SVO A-3 heads, A331 intake, 180 degree ceramic
> coated headers, custom built carb . My engine compartment is totally
> refinished with painted surfaces (in black) SS. fire wall cover SS bottles
> and water pipes. What is the consensus   concerning the engine block paint.
> Should I go with standard Ford blue, black to match the engine compartment
> or some other color?
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>    Maybe air coming up from under the car doesn't hit as much turbulence
>>    from the now blingy polished surfaces, so you can go faster :>) That's
>>    probably why a polished ZF gets hotter!
>>      __________________________________________________________________
>>
>>    Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 13:51:40 -0700
>>    From: b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
>>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] polish ZF cost estimate
>>    To: julian_kift at hotmail.com; mikeldrew at aol.com; cengles at cox.net
>>    CC: detomaso at poca.com; michael at michaelshortt.com
>>    When you are running at 140/150 at SSCC or BBORR who will know if it is
>>    polished?
>>
>>    Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
>>    ! )
>>      __________________________________________________________________
>>
>>    From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
>>    To: "MikeLDrew at aol.com" <mikeldrew at aol.com>; Charles Engles
>>    <cengles at cox.net>
>>    Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>; "michael at michaelshortt.com"
>>    <michael at michaelshortt.com>
>>    Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 1:22 PM
>>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] polish ZF cost estimate
>>      Let's face it polishing requires a lot of fine grit wet & dry
>>      sandpaper, rags, metal polishes (of varying grit) and a lot of elbow
>>      grease full stop. You can either put in that effort or pay for the
>>    wear
>>      and tear on someone elses elbows.
>>      What we haven't talked about is what you set yourself up for in
>>      continued maintenance by having a polished ZF. You are at some point
>>      going to have to put in more elbow grease to maintain that shiny
>>    look,
>>      unless of course you are either a) of sufficient economic stature and
>>      wealth you "Have people to do that for you" or b) want to take the ZF
>>      out each year for a repolish.
>>      Of course you could try to seal the polished surface, but I think
>>    that
>>      raises even more concerns on sealing in heat.
>>      Julian
>>      > Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 10:48:02 -0700
>>      > To: [1]cengles at cox.net
>>      > CC: [2]detomaso at poca.com; [3]michael at michaelshortt.com
>>      > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] polish ZF cost estimate
>>      > From: [4]detomaso at poca.com
>>      >
>>      > Another thought--polishing requires a lot of manipulation and it
>>      would be easy to drop the gearbox and damage it.
>>      >
>>      > Dumb idea in other words. :)
>>      >
>>      > Masochists have don't it in the car but they are relying on rags,
>>      metal polish and elbow grease....
>>      >
>>      > Mike
>>      >
>>      > Sent from my iPhone
>>      >
>>      > On Sep 14, 2014, at 10:38, "Charles Engles" <[5]cengles at cox.net>
>>    wrote:
>>      >
>>      > > Dear Guys,
>>      > >
>>      > >
>>      > > One other consideration of the polisher working on a fully
>>      assembled and presumably, fully functional, *expensive* ZF: if after
>>    a
>>      careful and proper polish job *any* malfunction or problem occurs
>>    with
>>      the pretty polished ZF, then all eyes and finger would point to the
>>      polisher. He probably wouldn't want that grief and headache.
>>      > >
>>      > >
>>      > > Worst case scenario, Chuck Engles
>>      > >
>>      > >
>>      > >
>>      > >
>>      > > -----Original Message-----
>>      > > From: DeTomaso [mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>>      [7]michael at michaelshortt.com
>>      > > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:34 AM
>>      > > To: boyd casey
>>      > > Cc: Mike Drew; [8]detomaso at poca.com
>>      > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] polish ZF cost estimate
>>      > >
>>      > > IMHO...I think it would just be a big PIA, so heavy and hard to
>>      move around in the multistep process.
>>      > >
>>      > > Michael
>>      > > On Sep 14, 2014 9:56 AM, "Boyd Casey" <[9]boyd411 at gmail.com>
>>
>>    wrote:
>>      > >
>>      > >> Mike,
>>      > >> Do you think that polishing a fully assembled ZF presents A a
>>    risk
>>      to
>>      > >> damaging the transaxle? You mentioned people polishing a Trans
>>      axle
>>      > >> while it was still installed. I have posted warnings against
>>    sand
>>      > >> blasting and even wet bead blasting while one has an engine or
>>      > >> transaxle installed. I know from A information passed on to me
>>    by
>>      my
>>      > >> friend who owns a new water based glass bead blasting business
>>      that
>>      > >> even with substantial efforts made to protect the engine or
>>    tranny
>>      it
>>      > >> is very easy to have a A nominal amount of glass beading find
>>    it's
>>      way
>>      > >> into the engine or transmission and that's A the death knoll for
>>      > >> either. A I wasn't aware of similar risks to the ZF A due to
>>      polishing.
>>      > >> Thanks,
>>      > >> Boyd
>>      > >>
>>      > >> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 12:58 AM, Mike Drew
>>    <[1][10]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
>>      > >> wrote:
>>      > >>
>>      > >> I think Lloyd Butfoy charges $1200 for polishing. Of course he
>>      would
>>      > >> never do it with the gearbox assembled.
>>      > >> I double any professional polisher will either.
>>      > >> Mike
>>      > >> Sent from my iPhone
>>      > >>
>>      > >> On Sep 13, 2014, at 21:55, Boyd Casey <[2][11]boyd411 at gmail.com
>> >
>>      wrote:
>>      > >>> A A Just out of curiosity, I know there will be a wide variance
>>      but
>>      > >> what do
>>      > >>> A A you think we be a reasonable price to polish a fully
>>      assembled zf
>>      > >> dash
>>      > >>> A A -2 with bell housing outside the car. Detached from the
>>    motor
>>      and
>>      > >>> A A delivered to a polishing shop. Do you think it would be
>>      necessary
>>      > >> to
>>      > >>> A A take any steps to protect the ZF from intrusion of polish
>>    or
>>      any
>>      > >> other
>>      > >>> A A potential problems?
>>      > >>
>>      > >>> _______________________________________________
>>      > >>>
>>      > >>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>      > >>>
>>      > >>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>      > >>> [3][12]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>      > >>> [4][13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>      > >>
>>      > >> References
>>      > >>
>>      > >> 1. mailto:[14]MikeLDrew at aol.com
>>      > >> 2. mailto:[15]boyd411 at gmail.com
>>      > >> 3. mailto:[16]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>      > >> 4. [17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>      > >>
>>      > >> _______________________________________________
>>      > >>
>>      > >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>      > >>
>>      > >> DeTomaso mailing list
>>      > >> [18]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>      > >> [19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>      > >
>>      >
>>      > _______________________________________________
>>      >
>>      > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>      >
>>      > DeTomaso mailing list
>>      > [20]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>      > [21]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>    DeTomaso mailing list
>>    [22]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>    [23]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> References
>>
>>    1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
>>    2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>>    3. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>>    4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>>    5. mailto:cengles at cox.net
>>    6. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
>>    7. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>>    8. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>>    9. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>>   10. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>>   11. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>>   12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>>   13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>   14. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>>   15. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>>   16. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>>   17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>   18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>>   19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>   20. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>>   21. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>   22. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>>   23. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>


-- 







Michael L. Shortt
Savannah, Georgia
www.michaelshortt.com
michael at michaelshortt.com
912-232-9390


This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
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-------------- next part --------------
   I vote for black.
   Michael

   On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Boyd Casey <[1]boyd411 at gmail.com>
   wrote:

   An unrelated question. A Since I am having a rebuilt engine installed
   (a 408 stroked Cleveland, SVO A-3 heads, A331 intake, 180 degree
   ceramic coated headers, custom built carb . My engine compartment is
   totally refinished with painted surfaces (in black) SS. fire wall cover
   SS bottles and water pipes. What is the consensus A  concerning the
   engine block paint. Should I go with standard Ford blue, black to match
   the engine compartment or some other color?

   On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Julian Kift
   <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:

     A  A Maybe air coming up from under the car doesn't hit as much
     turbulence
     A  A from the now blingy polished surfaces, so you can go faster :>)
     That's
     A  A probably why a polished ZF gets hotter!
     A  A
     A __________________________________________________________________
     A  A Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 13:51:40 -0700
     A  A From: [3]b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
     A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] polish ZF cost estimate
     A  A To: [4]julian_kift at hotmail.com; [5]mikeldrew at aol.com;
     [6]cengles at cox.net
     A  A CC: [7]detomaso at poca.com; [8]michael at michaelshortt.com

   A  A When you are running at 140/150 at SSCC or BBORR who will know if
   it is
   A  A polished?
   A  A Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may
   not be
   A  A ! )
   A  A
   A __________________________________________________________________
   A  A From: Julian Kift <[9]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   A  A To: "[10]MikeLDrew at aol.com" <[11]mikeldrew at aol.com>; Charles
   Engles
   A  A <[12]cengles at cox.net>
   A  A Cc: De Tomaso List <[13]detomaso at poca.com>;
   "[14]michael at michaelshortt.com"
   A  A <[15]michael at michaelshortt.com>
   A  A Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 1:22 PM
   A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] polish ZF cost estimate
   A  A  A Let's face it polishing requires a lot of fine grit wet & dry
   A  A  A sandpaper, rags, metal polishes (of varying grit) and a lot of
   elbow
   A  A  A grease full stop. You can either put in that effort or pay for
   the
   A  A wear
   A  A  A and tear on someone elses elbows.
   A  A  A What we haven't talked about is what you set yourself up for in
   A  A  A continued maintenance by having a polished ZF. You are at some
   point
   A  A  A going to have to put in more elbow grease to maintain that
   shiny
   A  A look,
   A  A  A unless of course you are either a) of sufficient economic
   stature and
   A  A  A wealth you "Have people to do that for you" or b) want to take
   the ZF
   A  A  A out each year for a repolish.
   A  A  A Of course you could try to seal the polished surface, but I
   think
   A  A that
   A  A  A raises even more concerns on sealing in heat.
   A  A  A Julian
   A  A  A > Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 10:48:02 -0700
   A  A  A > To: [1][16]cengles at cox.net
   A  A  A > CC: [2][17]detomaso at poca.com;
   [3][18]michael at michaelshortt.com
   A  A  A > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] polish ZF cost estimate
   A  A  A > From: [4][19]detomaso at poca.com
   A  A  A >
   A  A  A > Another thought--polishing requires a lot of manipulation and
   it
   A  A  A would be easy to drop the gearbox and damage it.
   A  A  A >
   A  A  A > Dumb idea in other words. :)
   A  A  A >
   A  A  A > Masochists have don't it in the car but they are relying on
   rags,
   A  A  A metal polish and elbow grease....
   A  A  A >
   A  A  A > Mike
   A  A  A >
   A  A  A > Sent from my iPhone
   A  A  A >
   A  A  A > On Sep 14, 2014, at 10:38, "Charles Engles"
   <[5][20]cengles at cox.net>
   A  A wrote:
   A  A  A >
   A  A  A > > Dear Guys,
   A  A  A > >
   A  A  A > >
   A  A  A > > One other consideration of the polisher working on a fully
   A  A  A assembled and presumably, fully functional, *expensive* ZF: if
   after
   A  A a
   A  A  A careful and proper polish job *any* malfunction or problem
   occurs
   A  A with
   A  A  A the pretty polished ZF, then all eyes and finger would point to
   the
   A  A  A polisher. He probably wouldn't want that grief and headache.
   A  A  A > >
   A  A  A > >
   A  A  A > > Worst case scenario, Chuck Engles
   A  A  A > >
   A  A  A > >
   A  A  A > >
   A  A  A > >
   A  A  A > > -----Original Message-----
   A  A  A > > From: DeTomaso [mailto:[6][21]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
   Behalf Of
   A  A  A [7][22]michael at michaelshortt.com
   A  A  A > > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:34 AM
   A  A  A > > To: boyd casey
   A  A  A > > Cc: Mike Drew; [8][23]detomaso at poca.com
   A  A  A > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] polish ZF cost estimate
   A  A  A > >
   A  A  A > > IMHO...I think it would just be a big PIA, so heavy and
   hard to
   A  A  A move around in the multistep process.
   A  A  A > >
   A  A  A > > Michael
   A  A  A > > On Sep 14, 2014 9:56 AM, "Boyd Casey"
   <[9][24]boyd411 at gmail.com>
   A  A wrote:
   A  A  A > >
   A  A  A > >> Mike,
   A  A  A > >> Do you think that polishing a fully assembled ZF presents
   A a
   A  A risk
   A  A  A to
   A  A  A > >> damaging the transaxle? You mentioned people polishing a
   Trans
   A  A  A axle
   A  A  A > >> while it was still installed. I have posted warnings
   against
   A  A sand
   A  A  A > >> blasting and even wet bead blasting while one has an
   engine or
   A  A  A > >> transaxle installed. I know from A information passed on
   to me
   A  A by
   A  A  A my
   A  A  A > >> friend who owns a new water based glass bead blasting
   business
   A  A  A that
   A  A  A > >> even with substantial efforts made to protect the engine
   or
   A  A tranny
   A  A  A it
   A  A  A > >> is very easy to have a A nominal amount of glass beading
   find
   A  A it's
   A  A  A way
   A  A  A > >> into the engine or transmission and that's A the death
   knoll for
   A  A  A > >> either. A I wasn't aware of similar risks to the ZF A due
   to
   A  A  A polishing.
   A  A  A > >> Thanks,
   A  A  A > >> Boyd
   A  A  A > >>
   A  A  A > >> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 12:58 AM, Mike Drew
   A  A <[1][10][25]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
   A  A  A > >> wrote:
   A  A  A > >>
   A  A  A > >> I think Lloyd Butfoy charges $1200 for polishing. Of
   course he
   A  A  A would
   A  A  A > >> never do it with the gearbox assembled.
   A  A  A > >> I double any professional polisher will either.
   A  A  A > >> Mike
   A  A  A > >> Sent from my iPhone
   A  A  A > >>
   A  A  A > >> On Sep 13, 2014, at 21:55, Boyd Casey
   <[2][11][26]boyd411 at gmail.com>
   A  A  A wrote:
   A  A  A > >>> A A Just out of curiosity, I know there will be a wide
   variance
   A  A  A but
   A  A  A > >> what do
   A  A  A > >>> A A you think we be a reasonable price to polish a fully
   A  A  A assembled zf
   A  A  A > >> dash
   A  A  A > >>> A A -2 with bell housing outside the car. Detached from
   the
   A  A motor
   A  A  A and
   A  A  A > >>> A A delivered to a polishing shop. Do you think it would
   be
   A  A  A necessary
   A  A  A > >> to
   A  A  A > >>> A A take any steps to protect the ZF from intrusion of
   polish
   A  A or
   A  A  A any
   A  A  A > >> other
   A  A  A > >>> A A potential problems?
   A  A  A > >>
   A  A  A > >>> _______________________________________________
   A  A  A > >>>
   A  A  A > >>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   A  A  A > >>>
   A  A  A > >>> DeTomaso mailing list
   A  A  A > >>> [3][12][27]DeTomaso at poca.com
   A  A  A > >>>
   [4][13][28]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   A  A  A > >>
   A  A  A > >> References
   A  A  A > >>
   A  A  A > >> 1. mailto:[14][29]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   A  A  A > >> 2. mailto:[15][30]boyd411 at gmail.com
   A  A  A > >> 3. mailto:[16][31]DeTomaso at poca.com
   A  A  A > >> 4.
   [17][32]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   A  A  A > >>
   A  A  A > >> _______________________________________________
   A  A  A > >>
   A  A  A > >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   A  A  A > >>
   A  A  A > >> DeTomaso mailing list
   A  A  A > >> [18][33]DeTomaso at poca.com
   A  A  A > >> [19][34]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   A  A  A > >
   A  A  A >
   A  A  A > _______________________________________________
   A  A  A >
   A  A  A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   A  A  A >
   A  A  A > DeTomaso mailing list
   A  A  A > [20][35]DeTomaso at poca.com
   A  A  A > [21][36]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   A  A _______________________________________________
   A  A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   A  A DeTomaso mailing list
   A  A [22][37]DeTomaso at poca.com
   A  A [23][38]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   References
   A  A 1. mailto:[39]cengles at cox.net
   A  A 2. mailto:[40]detomaso at poca.com
   A  A 3. mailto:[41]michael at michaelshortt.com
   A  A 4. mailto:[42]detomaso at poca.com
   A  A 5. mailto:[43]cengles at cox.net
   A  A 6. mailto:[44]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
   A  A 7. mailto:[45]michael at michaelshortt.com
   A  A 8. mailto:[46]detomaso at poca.com
   A  A 9. mailto:[47]boyd411 at gmail.com
   A  10. mailto:[48]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   A  11. mailto:[49]boyd411 at gmail.com
   A  12. mailto:[50]DeTomaso at poca.com
   A  13. [51]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   A  14. mailto:[52]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   A  15. mailto:[53]boyd411 at gmail.com
   A  16. mailto:[54]DeTomaso at poca.com
   A  17. [55]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   A  18. mailto:[56]DeTomaso at poca.com
   A  19. [57]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   A  20. mailto:[58]DeTomaso at poca.com
   A  21. [59]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   A  22. mailto:[60]DeTomaso at poca.com
   A  23. [61]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     DeTomaso mailing list
     [62]DeTomaso at poca.com
     [63]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   --
   Michael L. Shortt
   Savannah, Georgia
   [64]www.michaelshortt.com
   [65]michael at michaelshortt.com
   912-232-9390
   A
   This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
   Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
   privileged.A  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
   notified
   that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
   communication is strictly prohibited.A  Please reply to the sender that
   you
   have received this message in error, then delete it.A  Thank you

References

   1. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
   2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   3. mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
   4. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   5. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
   6. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   8. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
   9. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  10. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  11. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
  12. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  13. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  14. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  15. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  16. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  17. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  18. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  19. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  20. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  21. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
  22. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  24. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  25. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  26. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  29. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  30. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  33. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  34. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  35. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  36. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  37. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  38. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  39. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  40. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  41. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  42. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  43. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  44. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
  45. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  46. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  47. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  48. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  49. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  50. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  51. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  52. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  53. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  54. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  55. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  56. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  57. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  58. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  59. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  60. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  61. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  62. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  63. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  64. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
  65. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com


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