[DeTomaso] : Back in the saddle

[MikeLDrew at aol.com]

In a message dated 9/10/14 14 56 47, julian_kift at hotmail.com writes:


> As I understand the reaming and sleeving of halfshafts was a Hall Pantera 
> work around for low availability and exorbitant pricing of oem u-joints 
> many years ago. Gary would sleeve the joint carriers down to use  a Spicer 
> u-joint in the stock halfshaft. My '74 halfshafts were like that and were 
> basically junk, I'd advise anyone who doesn't know what they have to check and 
> if you find you have Spicer u-joints in stock style half shaft then do 
> something ASAP. 
> 
>>>Agreed.   In my case, that's not what I had.   Instead, a driveshaft 
shop or machinist had reamed two of the holes (but interestingly, not opposite 
holes, but rather one on each piece, on one end of each driveshaft) to 
accept a sleeve, and then smaller caps.   So what I had was original, stock 
U-joints on one end, and at the other end, stock-replacement U-joints with grease 
fittings, and two different size caps, not opposite to one another!

> >If you need to replace the half shafts then a switch to CV joints is 
> indeed economical and prudent at that point in my opinion.
> 
>>>I would never spend the massive dollars needed to buy so-called 'heavy 
duty' Spicer halfshafts.   The ONLY Pantera driveshafts I have ever seen fail 
have been those, due to defective welds.   The stock halfshafts are great, 
and when fitted with greaseable U-joints and maintained properly, will 
outlast the car.
>  
> >I took advantage of one of Scott's Christmas sales and purchased two set 
> of his CV axle kits , one for each car. You don't tell us how much you now 
> have invested in your rebuilt and balanced but still 19th Century 
> technology halfshafts MIke? 
> 
>>>Hmm, I try not to consider such things!   I think it was about $30 for 
each U-joint plus $200 for rebuilding, balancing and painting, or $320 total.

> >However, considering I can sell my halfshafts to stubborn folks like you 
> on eBay for over a third of the cost of my CV's I'd say I'm ahead all 
> round.
>  
> >>>HAHAHA!!!   FWIW just about everybody I know who has CV joint 
driveshafts has suffered failures.   I have shipped a lot of replacement boots to Euro 
guys who leapt aboard the CV train and now regret it.   Others have had 
custom driveshafts made over there, and the seals (not the boots) failed and 
sprayed grease all over the place, etc.

I therefore remain unconvinced as to their overall superiority for most 
applications.

> >For serious owners who are also after the weight saving then changing 
> the ZF stub axles to CV stubs along with custom length CV axles that 
> don't then require the adapter would be the costly way to go. To do the outboard 
> side you'll need to find some aftermarket axles with a CV end, which I don't 
> believe are readily available.
> 
>>>That would be a spendy proposition indeed!
>  
> >The more interesting, but less discussed part of your post is the brake 
> upgrade; a big brake kit that you can use and improve braking whilst 
> retaining 15" wheels has to be an attraction for many, so hopefully all your 
> woes and support from Scott will translate into him being able to offer a 
> complete bolt on kit.
>  
> >>>I certainly hope so.   FWIW I had just such a kit already on the car, 
purchased from Dennis Quella 20 years ago.   The problem was that the 
front/rear bias wasn't well thought out and I had far too much front brake due to 
improperly sized pistons on the rear calipers.   Scott agreed to experiment 
with me, and we moved my old front calipers to the rear and put new ones on 
the front.   The thought was that I might perhaps wind up with too much rear 
brake bias, which could then easily be stepped down with an adjustable 
proportioning valve.   Due to the 'knee' in the pressure reduction curve, you 
really don't want one of those on the front circuit, I've learned here.

I took it for a test drive today on the way home from work, and as we 
feared, I've wound up with too much rear bias now.   Fortunately I picked a very 
safe area (wide freeway offramp with no obstacles).   Even though I was 
psychologically prepared for the rears to lock up first, the car slewed sideways 
and even after I let off the brakes, it continued to slide, and I wound up 
leaving the pavement!   Fortunately I had planned well as the dirt shoulder 
was smooth and I gathered it all up again.   I repeated the experiment in an 
abandoned industrial park with streets as wide as they are long, with the 
same results.   Now onto the Summit website to shop for a prop valve to 
install in the rear circuit.

Details, details....

Mike
-------------- next part --------------
   In a message dated 9/10/14 14 56 47, julian_kift at hotmail.com writes:

     As I understand the reaming and sleeving of halfshafts was a
     Hall Pantera work around for low availability and exorbitant pricing
     of oem u-joints many years ago. Gary would sleeve the joint
     carriers down to use  a Spicer u-joint in the stock halfshaft. My
     '74 halfshafts were like that and were basically junk, I'd advise
     anyone who doesn't know what they have to check and if you find you
     have Spicer u-joints in stock style half shaft then do something
     ASAP.

   >>>Agreed.  In my case, that's not what I had.  Instead, a driveshaft
   shop or machinist had reamed two of the holes (but interestingly, not
   opposite holes, but rather one on each piece, on one end of each
   driveshaft) to accept a sleeve, and then smaller caps.  So what I had
   was original, stock U-joints on one end, and at the other end,
   stock-replacement U-joints with grease fittings, and two different size
   caps, not opposite to one another!

     >If you need to replace the half shafts then a switch to CV joints
     is indeed economical and prudent at that point in my opinion.

   >>>I would never spend the massive dollars needed to buy so-called
   'heavy duty' Spicer halfshafts.  The ONLY Pantera driveshafts I have
   ever seen fail have been those, due to defective welds.  The stock
   halfshafts are great, and when fitted with greaseable U-joints and
   maintained properly, will outlast the car.


     >I took advantage of one of Scott's Christmas sales and purchased
     two set of his CV axle kits , one for each car. You don't tell us
     how much you now have invested in your rebuilt and balanced but
     still 19th Century technology halfshafts MIke?

   >>>Hmm, I try not to consider such things!  I think it was about $30
   for each U-joint plus $200 for rebuilding, balancing and painting, or
   $320 total.

     >However, considering I can sell my halfshafts to stubborn folks
     like you on eBay for over a third of the cost of my CV's I'd say I'm
     ahead all round.

   >>>HAHAHA!!!  FWIW just about everybody I know who has CV joint
   driveshafts has suffered failures.  I have shipped a lot of replacement
   boots to Euro guys who leapt aboard the CV train and now regret it.
   Others have had custom driveshafts made over there, and the seals (not
   the boots) failed and sprayed grease all over the place, etc.
   I therefore remain unconvinced as to their overall superiority for most
   applications.

     >For serious owners who are also after the weight saving then
     changing the ZF stub axles to CV stubs along with custom length CV
     axles that don't then require the adapter would be the costly way to
     go. To do the outboard side you'll need to find some aftermarket
     axles with a CV end, which I don't believe are readily available.

   >>>That would be a spendy proposition indeed!


     >The more interesting, but less discussed part of your post is the
     brake upgrade; a big brake kit that you can use and improve braking
     whilst retaining 15" wheels has to be an attraction for many, so
     hopefully all your woes and support from Scott will translate into
     him being able to offer a complete bolt on kit.

   >>>I certainly hope so.  FWIW I had just such a kit already on the car,
   purchased from Dennis Quella 20 years ago.  The problem was that the
   front/rear bias wasn't well thought out and I had far too much front
   brake due to improperly sized pistons on the rear calipers.  Scott
   agreed to experiment with me, and we moved my old front calipers to the
   rear and put new ones on the front.  The thought was that I might
   perhaps wind up with too much rear brake bias, which could then easily
   be stepped down with an adjustable proportioning valve.  Due to the
   'knee' in the pressure reduction curve, you really don't want one of
   those on the front circuit, I've learned here.
   I took it for a test drive today on the way home from work, and as we
   feared, I've wound up with too much rear bias now.  Fortunately I
   picked a very safe area (wide freeway offramp with no obstacles).  Even
   though I was psychologically prepared for the rears to lock up first,
   the car slewed sideways and even after I let off the brakes, it
   continued to slide, and I wound up leaving the pavement!  Fortunately I
   had planned well as the dirt shoulder was smooth and I gathered it all
   up again.  I repeated the experiment in an abandoned industrial park
   with streets as wide as they are long, with the same results.  Now onto
   the Summit website to shop for a prop valve to install in the rear
   circuit.
   Details, details....
   Mike