[DeTomaso] NPC: Dan Neil's latest report excerpts
Bill Lewis
lotus0005 at hotmail.com
Mon Sep 8 11:49:40 EDT 2014
My wife bought me a JD 2040 for our anniversary back in 1977. We had been out to eat and when we drove up to the house (farmhouse, long drive way, etc.) there it was sitting waiting for me. It is still at the ranch next door - I see it all the time - can buy it back if I want to. And, it also had the problem, that I had to rotate the steering wheel back and forth to relieve pressure to get it started. ---BILL Lewis
> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 00:22:35 -0400
> From: will.kooiman at gmail.com
> To: bill at incendium.com; detomaso-bounces at poca.com; spkorb at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: Dan Neil's latest report excerpts
>
> Agreed.
>
> I wasn¹t trying to beat anyone with the oldest tractor story. I know
> there are people on the list with much older tractor stories, and besides,
> this one wasn¹t even mine. It was my dad¹s.
>
> My point was that he had a love affair with his tractors, even though they
> were always breaking down, and difficult to operate when they were running.
>
> It¹s similar to hot rodders having a love affair with manual transmissions.
>
> On 9/7/14, 11:40 PM, "Bill Moore" <bill at incendium.com> wrote:
>
> >Really a 4010 and next gen 4020 JD's are not old at all. Try a 720 or a
> >830 and a real tractor the model "R".
> >Bill Moore
> >Incendium Supply
> >Calgary
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> >Sender: "DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces at poca.com>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014
> >22:36:34
> >To: <spkorb at gmail.com>; detomaso at poca.com<detomaso at poca.com>
> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: Dan Neil's latest report excerpts
> >
> >I miss using a manual choke.
> >
> >Modernization is nice, but it divorces the driver from the machine.
> >Sometimes I prefer to have to operate the machine. Not always, though.
> >
> >My dad had a John Deere 4010, a 4020, and an A-model. He refused to buy a
> >new tractor, even though he could easily afford one. When he started the
> >4010, he had to move the steering wheel back and forth. Somehow it
> >disabled the power steering, and it cranked faster. I always thought it
> >was because he was too cheap to buy a new tractor, and that might be it,
> >but another possibility is he enjoyed dealing with the old tractor.
> >
> >
> >On 9/7/14, 7:56 PM, "Sean Korb" <spkorb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It's hard to imagine someone complaining about how much they enjoyed
> >> cable operated timing advance and it's getting hard to imagine people
> >> missing a manual choke or even feathering a carburettor at a light so
> >> it won't stall... but I know we exist ;)
> >> sean
> >>
> >> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Bill Lewis <[1]lotus0005 at hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> A A Not to negate the article's content, nor your thought, I wonder
> >> what
> >> A A other times in history has this scenario occurred?
> >> A A From: [2]cengles at cox.net
> >> A A To: [3]detomaso at poca.com
> >> A A Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 18:16:36 -0500
> >> A A Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC: Dan Neil's latest report excerpts
> >> Dear Forum,
> >> A A A A A A A A A These excerpts are from Dan Neils car
> >> article in the WSJ
> >> from Sept 6th about the Porsche 911.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A Standard transmissions in sports cars
> >> are going the way
> >> of the moa.A Ferrari doesnt sell one anymore, and neither does
> >> Lamborghini.
> >> Porsche and a few other auto makers (GM, Ford, Fiat-Chrysler) offer
> >> them as
> >> atavistic tokens of their performance heritage, bending over
> >> backward to
> >> appeal to the old, grouchy purists, but its a bit silly and all over
> >> the
> >> map.A The bat-guano fast Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat (707 hp/10.8
> >> seconds
> >> in theA 1/4 mile) has an optional eight-speed automatic
> >> transmission.A Might as
> >> well say TorqueFlite on it.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A The 911 buyers other option is a
> >> seven-speed
> >> dual-clutch transmission, the fabulously named Porsche
> >> Doppelkupplung, or
> >> PDK, which essentially automates the function of a clutch pedal.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A A A Around your average road racing
> >> course, a
> >> PDK-equipped 911 of any stripe will embarrass its manually shifted
> >> twin.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A Functionally, the manual transmission,
> >> be it seven gears
> >> or 70, the stick shift as Buz and Tod would say, is obsolete in
> >> sports
> >> cars.A Yes, right?A Were all agreed on that?A Automated
> >> clutching=faster,
> >> better.
> >> A A A A A A A A A And can we not also agree that its a kind
> >> of madness to
> >> hang so lossy a thing as a manual gearbox on so rigorously optimized
> >> an
> >> engine as the 911s: naturally aspirated 3.4 liters, in the classic
> >> horizontally opposedA six-cylinder configuration, four cams, with
> >> phased
> >> timing and lift on the intake and exhaust valves, direct injection,
> >> 12.5:1
> >> compression ratio, dry sump lubrication and a brain of the purest
> >> silicon.
> >> Nominal output is 350 hp at 7,400 rpm and 287 lb-ft of torque.
> >> A A A A A A A A A To pair such a mill with a manual
> >> transmission is
> >> crippling.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A The 911 with a stick accelerates from
> >> 0 to 60 in 4.6
> >> seconds; with PDK, that number is as low as 4.2 seconds.A A
> >> difference of
> >> four tenths officially!A If you were a German transmission engineer
> >> and you
> >> were four-tenths of a second slower getting to the coffee pot in the
> >> morning
> >> they would bin you.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A And yet there it is: I want, I would
> >> only have, the seven
> >> speed manual transmission.A First, because those few tenths at 100%
> >> throttle
> >> are not actually that important to me and I, personally, would never
> >> track
> >> my daily driver.A Second, because Porsches seven speed shifter is
> >> turned
> >> out so beautifully, with lustrous aluminum and taut leather gusset
> >> in the
> >> center console, almost steampunk in its elegant antiquation.A
> >> Third, its a
> >> mechanical marvel: The weight, throw and uptake of the clutch pedal
> >> and
> >> frictionless linkages, the gate-homing precision of the shifter, all
> >> impeccable, all to the sound of an upscale lumber mill.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A A To feather the clutch lightly up a
> >> hill, to rev
> >> impetuously and dump the clutch when the floodlights hit.A Stop
> >> thief!
> >> Youve stolen our hearts.
> >> A A A A A A A A A But its mostly because when youre good at
> >> something---a
> >> language, an instrument, or in my limited case, heel-and-toe
> >> downshifting----theres joy in doing it.A A couple of mornings I
> >> caught
> >> myself skipping out to the car.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A A So there you have it.A
> >> A Automotive steampunks prefer
> >> manual transmissions.A A I am a steampunk.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A
> >> Atavistically yours,A Chuck
> >> Engles
> >> A A _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum
> >> Managed
> >> A A by POCA DeTomaso mailing list [4]DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> A A [5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> [6]DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> [7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sean Korb [8]spkorb at spkorb.org [9]http://www.spkorb.org
> >> '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
> >> #1382
> >> "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
> >> "Computers are useless.A They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
> >>
> >>References
> >>
> >> 1. mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com
> >> 2. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> >> 3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> >> 4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> 5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> 7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >> 8. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
> >> 9. http://www.spkorb.org/
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>
> >>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >>DeTomaso mailing list
> >>DeTomaso at poca.com
> >>http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> >DeTomaso mailing list
> >DeTomaso at poca.com
> >http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
-------------- next part --------------
My wife bought me a JD 2040 for our anniversary back in 1977. We had
been out to eat and when we drove up to the house (farmhouse, long
drive way, etc.) there it was sitting waiting for me. It is still at
the ranch next door - I see it all the time - can buy it back if I want
to. And, it also had the problem, that I had to rotate the steering
wheel back and forth to relieve pressure to get it started. ---BILL
Lewis
> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 00:22:35 -0400
> From: will.kooiman at gmail.com
> To: bill at incendium.com; detomaso-bounces at poca.com; spkorb at gmail.com;
detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: Dan Neil's latest report excerpts
>
> Agreed.
>
> I wasn^1t trying to beat anyone with the oldest tractor story. I know
> there are people on the list with much older tractor stories, and
besides,
> this one wasn^1t even mine. It was my dad^1s.
>
> My point was that he had a love affair with his tractors, even though
they
> were always breaking down, and difficult to operate when they were
running.
>
> It^1s similar to hot rodders having a love affair with manual
transmissions.
>
> On 9/7/14, 11:40 PM, "Bill Moore" <bill at incendium.com> wrote:
>
> >Really a 4010 and next gen 4020 JD's are not old at all. Try a 720
or a
> >830 and a real tractor the model "R".
> >Bill Moore
> >Incendium Supply
> >Calgary
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> >Sender: "DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces at poca.com>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014
> >22:36:34
> >To: <spkorb at gmail.com>; detomaso at poca.com<detomaso at poca.com>
> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: Dan Neil's latest report excerpts
> >
> >I miss using a manual choke.
> >
> >Modernization is nice, but it divorces the driver from the machine.
> >Sometimes I prefer to have to operate the machine. Not always,
though.
> >
> >My dad had a John Deere 4010, a 4020, and an A-model. He refused to
buy a
> >new tractor, even though he could easily afford one. When he started
the
> >4010, he had to move the steering wheel back and forth. Somehow it
> >disabled the power steering, and it cranked faster. I always thought
it
> >was because he was too cheap to buy a new tractor, and that might be
it,
> >but another possibility is he enjoyed dealing with the old tractor.
> >
> >
> >On 9/7/14, 7:56 PM, "Sean Korb" <spkorb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It's hard to imagine someone complaining about how much they
enjoyed
> >> cable operated timing advance and it's getting hard to imagine
people
> >> missing a manual choke or even feathering a carburettor at a light
so
> >> it won't stall... but I know we exist ;)
> >> sean
> >>
> >> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Bill Lewis
<[1]lotus0005 at hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> A A Not to negate the article's content, nor your thought, I
wonder
> >> what
> >> A A other times in history has this scenario occurred?
> >> A A From: [2]cengles at cox.net
> >> A A To: [3]detomaso at poca.com
> >> A A Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 18:16:36 -0500
> >> A A Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC: Dan Neil's latest report excerpts
> >> Dear Forum,
> >> A A A A A A A A A These excerpts are from Dan Neils car
> >> article in the WSJ
> >> from Sept 6th about the Porsche 911.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A Standard transmissions in sports cars
> >> are going the way
> >> of the moa.A Ferrari doesnt sell one anymore, and neither does
> >> Lamborghini.
> >> Porsche and a few other auto makers (GM, Ford, Fiat-Chrysler)
offer
> >> them as
> >> atavistic tokens of their performance heritage, bending over
> >> backward to
> >> appeal to the old, grouchy purists, but its a bit silly and all
over
> >> the
> >> map.A The bat-guano fast Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat (707 hp/10.8
> >> seconds
> >> in theA 1/4 mile) has an optional eight-speed automatic
> >> transmission.A Might as
> >> well say TorqueFlite on it.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A The 911 buyers other option is a
> >> seven-speed
> >> dual-clutch transmission, the fabulously named Porsche
> >> Doppelkupplung, or
> >> PDK, which essentially automates the function of a clutch pedal.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A A A Around your average road racing
> >> course, a
> >> PDK-equipped 911 of any stripe will embarrass its manually shifted
> >> twin.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A Functionally, the manual transmission,
> >> be it seven gears
> >> or 70, the stick shift as Buz and Tod would say, is obsolete in
> >> sports
> >> cars.A Yes, right?A Were all agreed on that?A Automated
> >> clutching=faster,
> >> better.
> >> A A A A A A A A A And can we not also agree that its a kind
> >> of madness to
> >> hang so lossy a thing as a manual gearbox on so rigorously
optimized
> >> an
> >> engine as the 911s: naturally aspirated 3.4 liters, in the classic
> >> horizontally opposedA six-cylinder configuration, four cams, with
> >> phased
> >> timing and lift on the intake and exhaust valves, direct
injection,
> >> 12.5:1
> >> compression ratio, dry sump lubrication and a brain of the purest
> >> silicon.
> >> Nominal output is 350 hp at 7,400 rpm and 287 lb-ft of torque.
> >> A A A A A A A A A To pair such a mill with a manual
> >> transmission is
> >> crippling.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A The 911 with a stick accelerates from
> >> 0 to 60 in 4.6
> >> seconds; with PDK, that number is as low as 4.2 seconds.A A
> >> difference of
> >> four tenths officially!A If you were a German transmission
engineer
> >> and you
> >> were four-tenths of a second slower getting to the coffee pot in
the
> >> morning
> >> they would bin you.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A And yet there it is: I want, I would
> >> only have, the seven
> >> speed manual transmission.A First, because those few tenths at
100%
> >> throttle
> >> are not actually that important to me and I, personally, would
never
> >> track
> >> my daily driver.A Second, because Porsches seven speed shifter is
> >> turned
> >> out so beautifully, with lustrous aluminum and taut leather gusset
> >> in the
> >> center console, almost steampunk in its elegant antiquation.A
> >> Third, its a
> >> mechanical marvel: The weight, throw and uptake of the clutch
pedal
> >> and
> >> frictionless linkages, the gate-homing precision of the shifter,
all
> >> impeccable, all to the sound of an upscale lumber mill.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A A To feather the clutch lightly up a
> >> hill, to rev
> >> impetuously and dump the clutch when the floodlights hit.A Stop
> >> thief!
> >> Youve stolen our hearts.
> >> A A A A A A A A A But its mostly because when youre good at
> >> something---a
> >> language, an instrument, or in my limited case, heel-and-toe
> >> downshifting----theres joy in doing it.A A couple of mornings I
> >> caught
> >> myself skipping out to the car.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A A So there you have it.A
> >> A Automotive steampunks prefer
> >> manual transmissions.A A I am a steampunk.
> >> A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A
> >> Atavistically yours,A Chuck
> >> Engles
> >> A A _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum
> >> Managed
> >> A A by POCA DeTomaso mailing list [4]DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> A A [5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> [6]DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> [7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sean Korb [8]spkorb at spkorb.org [9]http://www.spkorb.org
> >> '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71
Pantera
> >> #1382
> >> "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
> >> "Computers are useless.A They can only give you answers." -P.
Picasso
> >>
> >>References
> >>
> >> 1. mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com
> >> 2. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> >> 3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> >> 4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> 5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> 7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >> 8. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
> >> 9. http://www.spkorb.org/
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>
> >>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >>DeTomaso mailing list
> >>DeTomaso at poca.com
> >>http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> >DeTomaso mailing list
> >DeTomaso at poca.com
> >http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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