[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 122, Issue 19
Beverly Hall
grambo-3 at hotmail.com
Mon Sep 1 15:20:04 EDT 2014
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 19, 2014, at 12:00 PM, detomaso-request at poca.com wrote:
>
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>
> Daily Detomaso List Digest
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. concorso photos - 2 (Larry Finch)
> 2. concorso photos - 3 (Larry Finch)
> 3. Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for A/F sensor
> (Larry Finch)
> 4. Longchamp no-sale in Monterey (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> 5. Re: Longchamp no-sale in Monterey (Brent Stewart)
> 6. Re: Longchamp no-sale in Monterey (Mark Charlton)
> 7. Monterey auction results (Garth Rodericks)
> 8. Monterey auction results (Garth Rodericks)
> 9. Re: Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for A/F sensor
> (Charles Engles)
> 10. Re: 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations (John Taphorn)
> 11. Re: 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations (Charles Engles)
> 12. Re: [SCPOCA] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
> (Kirby Schrader)
> 13. ZF drain plugs - common AC/Delco part # (Larry Finch)
> 14. Re: [SCPOCA] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
> (John Taphorn)
> 15. Re: Longchamp no-sale in Monterey (Pantdino)
> 16. Monterey auction results (Mike Scardina)
> 17. Re: [SCPOCA] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
> (Asa Jay Laughton)
> 18. Re: Monterey auction results (Mark Charlton)
> 19. Re: Monterey auction results (Asa Jay Laughton)
> 20. Re: [SCPOCA] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
> (Kirby Schrader)
> 21. Re: FW: Moment of (sad) truth (Robert Stroj)
> 22. Ebay tank (bill gaino)
> 23. Re: FW: Moment of (sad) truth (cengles at cox.net)
> 24. Re: Longchamp no-sale in Monterey (Tom Shinrock)
> 25. Re: FW: Moment of (sad) truth (Robert Stroj)
> 26. Re: Ebay tank (Himes, Terry (397C))
> 27. Re: FW: Moment of (sad) truth (cengles at cox.net)
> 28. Re: Ebay tank (bill gaino)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 15:16:17 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] concorso photos - 2
> Message-ID: <8D18930054B09EF-2288-27CD8 at webmail-vd015.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Nice intro photo of Panteras
>
> scroll down to thumbnails and click 'see all photos'
> for a few more
>
> http://www.carverse.com/news/carverse-gets-in-depth-with-the-2014-concorso-italiano-/
>
> Larry
> -------------- next part --------------
> Nice intro photo of Panteras
> scroll down to thumbnails and click 'see all photos'
> for a few more
> http://www.carverse.com/news/carverse-gets-in-depth-with-the-2014-conco
> rso-italiano-/
> Larry
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 15:28:17 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] concorso photos - 3
> Message-ID: <8D18931B280F7EF-2288-27F10 at webmail-vd015.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Several hundred photos of concorso, but very few with Panteras
>
> 20-some pages, each with 15 thumbnails
>
> http://www.sportscardigest.com/concorso-italiano-2014-photo-gallery/10/
>
> Larry
> -------------- next part --------------
> Several hundred photos of concorso, but very few with Panteras
> 20-some pages, each with 15 thumbnails
> http://www.sportscardigest.com/concorso-italiano-2014-photo-gallery/10/
> Larry
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 15:46:25 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for A/F
> sensor
> Message-ID: <8D189343AD6B92F-2288-283AC at webmail-vd015.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Chuck,
>
> This is where Dennis Q mounted the unit on 2511.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Chuck,
> This is where Dennis Q mounted the unit on 2511.
> Larry
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: O2 sensor.jpg
> Type: image/jpeg
> Size: 519835 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/attachments/20140818/573f5614/attachment-0001.jpg>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 16:01:18 -0400 (EDT)
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: detomaso at POCA.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Longchamp no-sale in Monterey
> Message-ID: <6a50.8bcaf8d.4123b58e at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi guys,
>
> An '83 Longchamp was a no-sale at Russo and Steele in Monterey, reportedly
> with a bid around $38K. Other than the FUGLY wheels it looks really nice,
> especially with the first-gen bumpers on a later 3000-series car.
>
> http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp/91151
>
> The blacked-out trim is a very 80's treatment; I prefer the chrome look but
> this car certainly looks menacing....
>
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
> Hi guys,
> An '83 Longchamp was a no-sale at Russo and Steele in Monterey,
> reportedly with a bid around $38K. Other than the FUGLY wheels it
> looks really nice, especially with the first-gen bumpers on a later
> 3000-series car.
> http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp/91
> 151
> The blacked-out trim is a very 80's treatment; I prefer the chrome look
> but this car certainly looks menacing....
> Mike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 13:25:41 -0700
> From: Brent Stewart <bjbstewart at yahoo.com>
> To: "MikeLDrew at aol.com" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, "detomaso at POCA.com"
> <detomaso at POCA.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Longchamp no-sale in Monterey
> Message-ID:
> <1408393541.35296.YahooMailNeo at web140603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> There were a few other Panteras up for auction last weekend - any news on the results?
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, August 18, 2014 1:01 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> ? Hi guys,
> ? An '83 Longchamp was a no-sale at Russo and Steele in Monterey,
> ? reportedly with a bid around $38K.? Other than the FUGLY wheels it
> ? looks really nice, especially with the first-gen bumpers on a later
> ? 3000-series car.
> ? http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp/91
> ? 151
> ? The blacked-out trim is a very 80's treatment; I prefer the chrome look
> ? but this car certainly looks menacing....
> ? Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> -------------- next part --------------
> There were a few other Panteras up for auction last weekend - any news
> on the results?
> On Monday, August 18, 2014 1:01 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> Hi guys,
> An '83 Longchamp was a no-sale at Russo and Steele in Monterey,
> reportedly with a bid around $38K. Other than the FUGLY wheels it
> looks really nice, especially with the first-gen bumpers on a later
> 3000-series car.
>
> [1]http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp
> /91
> 151
> The blacked-out trim is a very 80's treatment; I prefer the chrome
> look
> but this car certainly looks menacing....
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp/91
> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 16:41:58 -0400
> From: Mark Charlton <pantera01826 at rogers.com>
> To: Brent Stewart via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Longchamp no-sale in Monterey
> Message-ID: <14E0E16F-E96C-418C-B6B2-2D8CDEBF0401 at rogers.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I know that the one-off (notched deck) Pantera was sold for $72,500. The former owner was hoping for more but the car has moved on to a new owner.
>
> Mark Charlton
> pantera01826 at rogers.com
>
>
>
>> On Aug 18, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Brent Stewart via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>
>> There were a few other Panteras up for auction last weekend - any news
>> on the results?
>> On Monday, August 18, 2014 1:01 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
>> <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>> An '83 Longchamp was a no-sale at Russo and Steele in Monterey,
>> reportedly with a bid around $38K. Other than the FUGLY wheels it
>> looks really nice, especially with the first-gen bumpers on a later
>> 3000-series car.
>>
>> [1]http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp
>> /91
>> 151
>> The blacked-out trim is a very 80's treatment; I prefer the chrome
>> look
>> but this car certainly looks menacing....
>> Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp/91
>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 16:23:27 -0700
> From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
> To: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Monterey auction results
> Message-ID:
> <1408404207.23213.YahooMailNeo at web163201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> 1974 DeTomaso Pantera GTS at Mecum auction in Monterey - not sold; bidding reached $120,000
>
> Unrestored with 3,075 Miles
>
> 1974 DeTomaso Pantera GTS | Mecum Auctions
>
> ?
> ? ? ? ? ?
> 1974 DeTomaso Pantera GTS | Mecum Auctions
> HIGHLIGHTS - This is the ultimate early production Pantera with the GTS package - 1 of 97 produced American spec cars for US consumption - One of the finest original examples to be discovered
> View on www.mecum.com Preview by Yahoo
> ?
>
>
> 1973 DeTomaso Pantera 514 CI, 5-Speed - poorly presented, but sold. Can't see results.
>
> 1973 DeTomaso Pantera | Mecum Auctions
>
> ?
> ? ? ? ? ?
> 1973 DeTomaso Pantera | Mecum Auctions
> HIGHLIGHTS - Ford Racing 514 CI crate engine - 600 HP and 595 ft/lbs of torque - 5-speed transmission - Custom one of a kind Pantera - Candy Black Metallic Cherry paint - Pirellis Zero tires
> View on mecum.com Preview by Yahoo
> -------------- next part --------------
> 1974 DeTomaso Pantera GTS at Mecum auction in Monterey - not sold;
> bidding reached $120,000
> Unrestored with 3,075 Miles
> [1]1974 DeTomaso Pantera GTS | Mecum Auctions
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [2]1974 DeTomaso Pantera GTS | Mecum Auctions
> HIGHLIGHTS - This is the ultimate early production Pantera with the GTS
> package - 1 of 97 produced American spec cars for US consumption - One
> of the finest original examples to be discovered
> [3]View on www.mecum.com
> Preview by Yahoo
>
> 1973 DeTomaso Pantera 514 CI, 5-Speed - poorly presented, but sold.
> Can't see results.
> [4]1973 DeTomaso Pantera | Mecum Auctions
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [5]1973 DeTomaso Pantera | Mecum Auctions
> HIGHLIGHTS - Ford Racing 514 CI crate engine - 600 HP and 595 ft/lbs of
> torque - 5-speed transmission - Custom one of a kind Pantera - Candy
> Black Metallic Cherry paint - Pirellis Zero tires
> [6]View on mecum.com
> Preview by Yahoo
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=CA0814-191298
> 2. http://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=CA0814-191298
> 3. http://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=CA0814-191298
> 4. http://mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=CA0814-196309
> 5. http://mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=CA0814-196309
> 6. http://mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=CA0814-196309
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 16:29:23 -0700
> From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
> To: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Monterey auction results
> Message-ID:
> <1408404563.34923.YahooMailNeo at web163201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> One more time - hopefully Yahoo doesn't screw up the links again...
>
> 1974 DeTomaso Pantera GTS at Mecum auction in Monterey - not sold; bidding reached $120,000
>
> Unrestored with 3,075 Miles
> http://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=CA0814-191298
>
>
> 1973 DeTomaso Pantera 514 CI, 5-Speed - poorly presented, but sold. Can't see results.
> http://mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=CA0814-196309
> -------------- next part --------------
> One more time - hopefully Yahoo doesn't screw up the links again...
> 1974 DeTomaso Pantera GTS at Mecum auction in Monterey - not sold;
> bidding reached $120,000
> Unrestored with 3,075 Miles
> [1]http://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=CA0814-191298
> 1973 DeTomaso Pantera 514 CI, 5-Speed - poorly presented, but sold.
> Can't see results.
> [2]http://mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=CA0814-196309
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=CA0814-191298
> 2. http://mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=CA0814-196309
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 18:50:49 -0500
> From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>
> To: "'Dave Londry'" <davel at emspace.com>, <doug351c at gmail.com>,
> <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for
> A/F sensor
> Message-ID: <008a01cfbb3f$3d4fd6d0$b7ef8470$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Dave and Julian and all,
>
>
> Here is the succinct response from Innovate's technical support:ask
>
> "Any M18x1.5 thread bung will work, it is industry standard. You should
> mount it 4-10" after the collector if possible."
>
>
> OK, with all the help and comments and expertise, I am ready to
> deal with this project. Thanks everyone.
>
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Londry [mailto:davel at emspace.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:39 PM
> To: Charles Engles; doug351c at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for A/F
> sensor
>
> Sorry - that was unclear Chuck.
> The farther the sensor is from the exhaust outlets, the lower the low-rpm
> limit at which you can read A/i
>
> The lower the rpm, the farther the exhaust reversions travel back up the
> pipes.
> (More time to travel and less opposing gas velocity) dave
>
>> On 17/08/2014 6:55 PM, Charles Engles wrote:
>> Dear Dave,
>>
>>
>> So to rephrase what you said (which is very interesting),
>> the further down the exhaust the better the sensor reads and reads at
> lower
>> rpms. Therefore, the best point is as far back as possible, i.e. just
>> before the muffler?
>>
>> I have read that the Innovate is supposed to be the fastest
>> sampling or testing unit. Does that have any bearing on your
>> recommendation for a bung further down the exhaust pipe to obtain better
> readings?
>>
>>
>> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
>> doug351c
>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:17 PM
>> To: Dave Londry; detomaso at poca.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for
>> A/F sensor
>> Dave,
>>
>> By "outlet" do you mean header collector flange?
>>
>> Doug Braun
>> blue 73L #5505
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com]On Behalf Of Dave
>> Londry
>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 1:05 PM
>> To: detomaso at poca.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for
>> A/F sensor
>>
>>
>> That is good stuff Chuck and giving all that info first priority,
>> the farther you are from the outlet - the lower the rpm at which
>> you'll get stable A/F readings.
>> The reversions in our short exhaust systems are really fierce.
>> Below about 1700 rpm I get nothing but crap.
>> dave
>>
>>
>>> On 17/08/2014 12:03 PM, Charles Engles wrote:
>>> Dear SOBill, Jerry, Asa and Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Great minds think alike and experience makes the
>>> optimal location so much easier to pinpoint. Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Warmest regards, Chuck
>>> Engles
>>>
>>>
>>> From: SOBill at aol.com [mailto:SOBill at aol.com]
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:02 PM
>>> To: cengles at cox.net; detomaso at poca.com
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers
> for
>>> A/F sensor
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>>
>>> The bung should be mounted at the 12 o'clock position so
> condensation
>>> does get to the sensor on startup.
>>>
>>>
>>> I welded mine on the exhaust pipe just after the collector because
> my
>>> engine was in the car and I could easily remove the exhaust pipe to
> do
>>> the welding.
>>>
>>>
>>> SOBill
>>>
>>>
>>> The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.
>>> Do the best you can with what your have where you are.
>>> Have fun today!
>>> SOBill
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 8/17/2014 8:57:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>>> [1]cengles at cox.net writes:
>>>
>>> Dear Forum,
>>> I will soon have both engines out of both
>>> Panteras for
>>> work. It dawned on me that this would be a good time to add a
> bung
>>> on the
>>> headers for use with and A/F meter sensor. I have an email sent
>>> to
>>> Innovate for their recommendations, but it is the weekend. I
>>> assume that
>>> the bung should be welded into the end of the header collector.
>>> Does anyone have knowledge of the optimal spot
>>> to put
>>> the bung?
>>> Warmest regards,
> Chuck
>>> Engles
>>> Dear Forum,
>>> I will soon have both engines out of both
>>> Panteras
>>> for work. It dawned on me that this would be a good time to
> add
>>> a bung
>>> on the headers for use with and A/F meter sensor. I have an
>>> email
>>> sent to Innovate for their recommendations, but it is the
>>> weekend. I
>>> assume that the bung should be welded into the end of the
> header
>>> collector.
>>> Does anyone have knowledge of the optimal
>>> spot to
>>> put the bung?
>>> Warmest regards,
>>> Chuck
>>> Engles
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>> References
>>>
>>> 1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
>>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> -------------- next part --------------
> Dear Dave and Julian and all,
>
> Here is the succinct response from Innovate's technical
> support:
>
> "Any M18x1.5 thread bung will work, it is industry standard. You
> should mount it 4-10" after the collector if possible."
>
> OK, with all the help and comments and expertise, I am ready
> to deal with this project. Thanks everyone.
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Londry [[1]mailto:davel at emspace.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:39 PM
> To: Charles Engles; doug351c at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for
> A/F sensor
>
> Sorry - that was unclear Chuck.
>
> The farther the sensor is from the exhaust outlets, the lower the
> low-rpm limit at which you can read A/F.
>
> The lower the rpm, the farther the exhaust reversions travel back up
> the pipes.
>
> (More time to travel and less opposing gas velocity) dave
>
>> On 17/08/2014 6:55 PM, Charles Engles wrote:
>>
>> Dear Dave,
>
>
>
>> So to rephrase what you said (which is very interesting),
>
>> the further down the exhaust the better the sensor reads and reads at
> lower
>
>> rpms. Therefore, the best point is as far back as possible, i.e.
> just
>
>> before the muffler?
>
>
>> I have read that the Innovate is supposed to be the fastest
>
>> sampling or testing unit. Does that have any bearing on your
>
>> recommendation for a bung further down the exhaust pipe to obtain
> better readings?
>
>
>
>> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: DeTomaso [[2]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
>
>> doug351c
>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:17 PM
>
>> To: Dave Londry; [3]detomaso at poca.com
>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers
> for
>
>> A/F sensor
>
>
>> Dave,
>
>
>> By "outlet" do you mean header collector flange?
>
>
>> Doug Braun
>
>> blue 73L #5505
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: DeTomaso [[4]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com]On Behalf Of Dave
>
>> Londry
>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 1:05 PM
>
>> To: [5]detomaso at poca.com
>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers
> for
>
>> A/F sensor
>
>
>
>> That is good stuff Chuck and giving all that info first priority,
>
>> the farther you are from the outlet - the lower the rpm at which
>
>> you'll get stable A/F readings.
>
>> The reversions in our short exhaust systems are really fierce.
>
>> Below about 1700 rpm I get nothing but crap.
>
>> dave
>
>
>
>> On 17/08/2014 12:03 PM, Charles Engles wrote:
>
>>> Dear SOBill, Jerry, Asa and Mike
>
>
>
>
>>> Great minds think alike and experience
> makes the
>
>>> optimal location so much easier to pinpoint. Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>>> Warmest regards, Chuck
>
>>> Engles
>
>
>
>>> From: [6]SOBill at aol.com [[7]mailto:SOBill at aol.com]
>
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:02 PM
>
>>> To: [8]cengles at cox.net; [9]detomaso at poca.com
>
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on
> headers for
>
>>> A/F sensor
>
>
>
>>> Chuck,
>
>
>
>>> The bung should be mounted at the 12 o'clock position so
> condensation
>
>>> does get to the sensor on startup.
>
>
>
>>> I welded mine on the exhaust pipe just after the collector
> because my
>
>>> engine was in the car and I could easily remove the exhaust
> pipe to do
>
>>> the welding.
>
>
>
>>> SOBill
>
>
>
>>> The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.
>
>>> Do the best you can with what your have where you are.
>
>>> Have fun today!
>
>>> SOBill
>
>
>
>>> In a message dated 8/17/2014 8:57:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight
> Time,
>
>>> [1][10]cengles at cox.net writes:
>
>
>>> Dear Forum,
>
>>> I will soon have both engines out of both
>
>>> Panteras for
>
>>> work. It dawned on me that this would be a good time to add
> a bung
>
>>> on the
>
>>> headers for use with and A/F meter sensor. I have an email
> sent
>
>>> to
>
>>> Innovate for their recommendations, but it is the weekend.
> I
>
>>> assume that
>
>>> the bung should be welded into the end of the header
> collector.
>
>>> Does anyone have knowledge of the optimal
> spot
>
>>> to put
>
>>> the bung?
>
>>> Warmest regards,
> Chuck
>
>>> Engles
>
>>> Dear Forum,
>
>>> I will soon have both engines out of
> both
>
>>> Panteras
>
>>> for work. It dawned on me that this would be a good time
> to add
>
>>> a bung
>
>>> on the headers for use with and A/F meter sensor. I
> have an
>
>>> email
>
>>> sent to Innovate for their recommendations, but it is the
>
>>> weekend. I
>
>>> assume that the bung should be welded into the end of the
> header
>
>>> collector.
>
>>> Does anyone have knowledge of the
> optimal
>
>>> spot to
>
>>> put the bung?
>
>>> Warmest
> regards,
>
>>> Chuck
>
>>> Engles
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>
>>> [2][11]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
>>> [3][12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>>> References
>
>
>>> 1. [13]mailto:cengles at cox.net
>
>>> 2. [14]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>
>>> 3. [15]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>
>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>
>>> [16]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
>>> [17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>
>> [18]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
>> [19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:davel at emspace.com
> 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 4. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 6. mailto:SOBill at aol.com
> 7. mailto:SOBill at aol.com
> 8. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 9. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 10. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 13. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 15. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 16. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 19:05:45 -0500
> From: John Taphorn <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
> To: michael frazier <red3644 at hotmail.com>, detomaso at poca.com,
> scpoca at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
> Message-ID: <53F294D9.40600 at kingwoodcable.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Thanks for the feedback. Always room for improvement.
>
> The 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally will run on a different schedule than
> previous years. Registration will open on Friday May 15th with the Car
> Show that evening. The Event will wrap up Tuesday morning the 19th.
> The shift in days of the week is to accommodate access to NASA and the
> Saturday/Sunday track event.
>
> The Friday evening Car Show, will enable the track oriented group to
> attend before their cars get covered in tire boogers. Actually, I don't
> think tire boogers happens at these tamer track events. However, you get
> the gist - before they get dirty. Also, we thought it a great way to
> kick things off getting to know one another and the owners cars. This
> was how the boys did it at Pocono when I would trek up there and I
> thought it worked well.
>
> The event planners were all curious whether this day shift from the
> traditional Weds through Sunday schedule would be viewed as easier, the
> same or more difficult than previous. We generally thought it would be
> easier for those with jobs and also provide for better flight pricing
> into Houston Intercontinental Airport (IAH) with a weekend layover.
>
> What ya think?
>
> JT
>
>> On 8/18/2014 10:17 AM, michael frazier wrote:
>> Looking forward to it all... Even the contentious staff at the
>> resort! :-)
>>
>> I guess I should work on the Pantera.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:09:12 -0500
>> From: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>> To: DeTomaso at poca.com; SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
>>
>> The POCA 2015 Lone Star Fun Rally raises the bar with the finest resort
>> ever to host a Fun Rally.We are pleased to announce that the Lone Star
>> Fun Rally will feature the La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, located in
>> Montgomery, Texas.
>>
>> The meticulously planned La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, which recently
>> underwent a 130 million expansion and renovation, will provide Rally
>> guests with an unforgettable vacation experience.Guests of this AAA
>> Four-Diamond Texas Resort can expect to find a family friendly,
>> European-inspired lakeside retreat featuring an inspired balance between
>> nature relaxation and world class sophistication.A great destination for
>> the entire family, La Torretta has the spectacular scenery and the shear
>> elegance of a world-class Texas resort.Guests will enjoy the finest
>> amenities while being pampered by a contentious, experienced staff.
>>
>> Recent Fun Rallies have seen the average age of attendees falling,
>> perhaps reflective of De Tomasos changing hands to the next
>> generation.These younger Detomaso owners have begun to bring their
>> families to the event.La Torretta features an exciting program for
>> children ages 5-11, complete with their own private playground, and
>> supervised by the Adventure Pointe's activities staff. Teenagers
>> visiting La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa now have a place to call their
>> very own in The Edge, which features over-stuffed furniture, cool games
>> and the latest in technology, including a WII.The Edge creates a teenage
>> environment that is perfect for hanging out, having fun, or just relaxing.
>>
>> La Torretta accommodations have a charming open floor plan,
>> well-appointed art, plush furnishings, and an eclectic mix of colors and
>> textures. Each suite also features a king bed or two double beds,
>> wireless internet, and a private balcony with sweeping views of Lake Conroe.
>>
>> The Aqua Park is home to La Torretta Lake Resort's multiple pools
>> featuring an elegant heated upper pool with an infinity edge that
>> cascades down into a 6,400 sq. ft. Mediterranean pool. Other pools
>> include the Breeze Buster pool, the Splash Scape pool with an in-water
>> playground, and the Pollywogs pool for the youngest of water lovers. A
>> sandy beach is located on a quiet lake inlet and is ideal for sunning or
>> splashing around in beautiful Lake Conroe.
>>
>> While the Lone Star Fun Rally Agenda will offer plenty of activities to
>> keep you busy, this is Texas, and here you can choose your own path.The
>> Club at La Torretta Golf experience brings together perfectly manicured
>> 18 holes of golf, top golf instruction, and a traditional surrounding of
>> the Golf Club House all in one location, La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa.
>> The course was re-designed by Jeffery D. Blume, Limited in April 2007 to
>> a very challenging and exciting Par 71 course for all skill sets.
>>
>> You and your spouse have access to their 10,000 square foot fitness
>> center featuring cardio, free weights, yoga, Pilates and spin studios --
>> complete with personal trainers, customized classes, racquetball courts
>> and an adjacent tennis center.
>>
>> While you are burning excessive petrol at full throttle along those
>> Texas backroads or at the TWS track, your spouse may enjoy peace of
>> mind, body and soul at SpaTerre, the internationally inspired Spa
>> offering unparalleled comfort and world-class amenities. This 17,000
>> square foot refuge from life's stresses boasts separate men's and
>> women's retreats with relaxation lounges, Zen inspired gardens, shiatsu
>> massage chairs, flotation journeys and outdoor terraces. SpaTerre is
>> also home to a full-service Aveda salon, barber shop and 13 treatment
>> rooms including couples treatment rooms where Global Rituals, Massages
>> and Body Treatments melt our member's cares away.
>>
>> Carbon footprint you ask? Yeah, probably not.Guilty about driving a
>> brutish environmentally less friendly high powered Sports Car?Of course
>> not!But to provide a bit of eco-balance, La Torretta goes to great
>> lengths to make sure everything they do is as eco-friendly as possible.
>> Living in this lovely environment is not a luxury we take lightly. A
>> resort can only be as beautiful as the land it inhabits.
>>
>> Our suite rates at the La Torretta will be $139/ night -- admittedly a
>> little more than recent Fun Rallies.However, this is a great rate for
>> the superior quality, features and services the resort provides.
>> Additional there is a $5/ night resort fee. We have negotiated
>> significant discounts off La Torretta's standard rates.
>>
>>
>> With a variety of unforgettable restaurants and cafes to choose from,
>> you'll have a wide range of options to help satisfy your taste cravings.
>> At Prime you can experience farm fresh, New American Cuisine in this
>> casually elegant and relaxing waterfront restaurant. At Energie-High
>> Energy Sports Bar, come listen to music, watch sports games or simply
>> enjoy great conversation with friends. Essence Cafe-Spa dining features
>> all healthy foods. At Mokka Cafe-Coffee Bar and Bakery, guests can enjoyin
>> perfectly prepared delights. At the Yoi Sushi Bar-Elegant Sushi Bar a
>> well-trained team is committed to sourcing the best, freshest fish
>> available. Other La Torretta amenities include:
>>
>> ?Indoor Pool
>>
>> ?Outdoor Pools
>>
>> ?Wireless Internet Access Avail
>>
>> ?Free Wifi
>>
>> ?Dining On Site
>>
>> ?Golf Course On Site
>>
>> ?Fitness Room
>>
>> ?Tennis Court
>>
>> ?Business Center
>>
>> ?High-Speed Internet Access
>>
>> ?Hot Tub / Jacuzzi
>>
>> ?Spa
>>
>> ?Free Parking
>>
>> The Fun Rally Committee hopes that you will join us at the La Torretta
>> Resort.Long time Fun Rally participants understand that the event's
>> financial success is incumbent on us meeting room targets at the
>> resort.Achieving these goals, provides us the hospitality suite, bar and
>> banquet discounts that we are able to pass on to the registrants through
>> lower fees.We believe the 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally, when considered
>> as a complete package, is a great value.While our Event Agenda is still
>> taking shape, this year's planned activities include a NASA tour, the
>> pig roast, a car museum visit, a tour of a renown tuner shop, access to
>> the Bush Presidential library, TWS Speedway, car shows, and a Texas
>> historical visit. The more people who participate and DeTomaso cars in
>> attendance, the more enjoyable the experience for everyone.We hope to
>> see you there.
>>
>> When you are ready to make your La Torretta reservation, contact the
>> resort at 1.877.784.6835. Remember to let them know that you are with
>> "The Pantera Owners Club of America" to get your discount rates.
>>
>> For mapping purposes, the LaTorretta Lake Resort and Spa is located at
>> 600 La Torretta Boulevard, Montgomery TX 77356 United States.
>>
>> Their website ishttp://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed
>> by POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Thanks for the feedback. Always room for improvement.
> The 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally will run on a different schedule than
> previous years. Registration will open on Friday May 15th with the Car
> Show that evening. The Event will wrap up Tuesday morning the 19th.
> The shift in days of the week is to accommodate access to NASA and the
> Saturday/Sunday track event.
> The Friday evening Car Show, will enable the track oriented group to
> attend before their cars get covered in tire boogers. Actually, I
> don't think tire boogers happens at these tamer track events. However,
> you get the gist - before they get dirty. Also, we thought it a great
> way to kick things off getting to know one another and the owners
> cars. This was how the boys did it at Pocono when I would trek up
> there and I thought it worked well.
> The event planners were all curious whether this day shift from the
> traditional Weds through Sunday schedule would be viewed as easier, the
> same or more difficult than previous. We generally thought it would be
> easier for those with jobs and also provide for better flight pricing
> into Houston Intercontinental Airport (IAH) with a weekend layover.
> What ya think?
> JT
>
> On 8/18/2014 10:17 AM, michael frazier wrote:
>
> Looking forward to it all... Even the contentious staff at the
> resort! :-)
> I guess I should work on the Pantera.
> Michael
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:09:12 -0500
> From: [1]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> To: [2]DeTomaso at poca.com; [3]SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
> The POCA 2015 Lone Star Fun Rally raises the bar with the finest resort
> ever to host a Fun Rally.We are pleased to announce that the Lone Star
> Fun Rally will feature the La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, located in
> Montgomery, Texas.
>
> The meticulously planned La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, which recently
> underwent a 130 million expansion and renovation, will provide Rally
> guests with an unforgettable vacation experience.Guests of this AAA
> Four-Diamond Texas Resort can expect to find a family friendly,
> European-inspired lakeside retreat featuring an inspired balance between
> nature relaxation and world class sophistication.A great destination for
> the entire family, La Torretta has the spectacular scenery and the shear
> elegance of a world-class Texas resort.Guests will enjoy the finest
> amenities while being pampered by a contentious, experienced staff.
>
> Recent Fun Rallies have seen the average age of attendees falling,
> perhaps reflective of De Tomasos changing hands to the next
> generation.These younger Detomaso owners have begun to bring their
> families to the event.La Torretta features an exciting program for
> children ages 5-11, complete with their own private playground, and
> supervised by the Adventure Pointe's activities staff. Teenagers
> visiting La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa now have a place to call their
> very own in The Edge, which features over-stuffed furniture, cool games
> and the latest in technology, including a WII.The Edge creates a teenage
> environment that is perfect for hanging out, having fun, or just relaxing.
>
> La Torretta accommodations have a charming open floor plan,
> well-appointed art, plush furnishings, and an eclectic mix of colors and
> textures. Each suite also features a king bed or two double beds,
> wireless internet, and a private balcony with sweeping views of Lake Conroe.
>
> The Aqua Park is home to La Torretta Lake Resort's multiple pools
> featuring an elegant heated upper pool with an infinity edge that
> cascades down into a 6,400 sq. ft. Mediterranean pool. Other pools
> include the Breeze Buster pool, the Splash Scape pool with an in-water
> playground, and the Pollywogs pool for the youngest of water lovers. A
> sandy beach is located on a quiet lake inlet and is ideal for sunning or
> splashing around in beautiful Lake Conroe.
>
> While the Lone Star Fun Rally Agenda will offer plenty of activities to
> keep you busy, this is Texas, and here you can choose your own path.The
> Club at La Torretta Golf experience brings together perfectly manicured
> 18 holes of golf, top golf instruction, and a traditional surrounding of
> the Golf Club House all in one location, La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa.
> The course was re-designed by Jeffery D. Blume, Limited in April 2007 to
> a very challenging and exciting Par 71 course for all skill sets.
>
> You and your spouse have access to their 10,000 square foot fitness
> center featuring cardio, free weights, yoga, Pilates and spin studios --
> complete with personal trainers, customized classes, racquetball courts
> and an adjacent tennis center.
>
> While you are burning excessive petrol at full throttle along those
> Texas backroads or at the TWS track, your spouse may enjoy peace of
> mind, body and soul at SpaTerre, the internationally inspired Spa
> offering unparalleled comfort and world-class amenities. This 17,000
> square foot refuge from life's stresses boasts separate men's and
> women's retreats with relaxation lounges, Zen inspired gardens, shiatsu
> massage chairs, flotation journeys and outdoor terraces. SpaTerre is
> also home to a full-service Aveda salon, barber shop and 13 treatment
> rooms including couples treatment rooms where Global Rituals, Massages
> and Body Treatments melt our member's cares away.
>
> Carbon footprint you ask? Yeah, probably not.Guilty about driving a
> brutish environmentally less friendly high powered Sports Car?Of course
> not!But to provide a bit of eco-balance, La Torretta goes to great
> lengths to make sure everything they do is as eco-friendly as possible.
> Living in this lovely environment is not a luxury we take lightly. A
> resort can only be as beautiful as the land it inhabits.
>
> Our suite rates at the La Torretta will be $139/ night -- admittedly a
> little more than recent Fun Rallies.However, this is a great rate for
> the superior quality, features and services the resort provides.
> Additional there is a $5/ night resort fee. We have negotiated
> significant discounts off La Torretta's standard rates.
>
>
> With a variety of unforgettable restaurants and cafes to choose from,
> you'll have a wide range of options to help satisfy your taste cravings.
> At Prime you can experience farm fresh, New American Cuisine in this
> casually elegant and relaxing waterfront restaurant. At Energie-High
> Energy Sports Bar, come listen to music, watch sports games or simply
> enjoy great conversation with friends. Essence Cafe-Spa dining features
> all healthy foods. At Mokka Cafe-Coffee Bar and Bakery, guests can enjoy
> perfectly prepared delights. At the Yoi Sushi Bar-Elegant Sushi Bar a
> well-trained team is committed to sourcing the best, freshest fish
> available. Other La Torretta amenities include:
>
> .Indoor Pool
>
> .Outdoor Pools
>
> .Wireless Internet Access Avail
>
> .Free Wifi
>
> .Dining On Site
>
> .Golf Course On Site
>
> .Fitness Room
>
> .Tennis Court
>
> .Business Center
>
> .High-Speed Internet Access
>
> .Hot Tub / Jacuzzi
>
> .Spa
>
> .Free Parking
>
> The Fun Rally Committee hopes that you will join us at the La Torretta
> Resort.Long time Fun Rally participants understand that the event's
> financial success is incumbent on us meeting room targets at the
> resort.Achieving these goals, provides us the hospitality suite, bar and
> banquet discounts that we are able to pass on to the registrants through
> lower fees.We believe the 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally, when considered
> as a complete package, is a great value.While our Event Agenda is still
> taking shape, this year's planned activities include a NASA tour, the
> pig roast, a car museum visit, a tour of a renown tuner shop, access to
> the Bush Presidential library, TWS Speedway, car shows, and a Texas
> historical visit. The more people who participate and DeTomaso cars in
> attendance, the more enjoyable the experience for everyone.We hope to
> see you there.
>
> When you are ready to make your La Torretta reservation, contact the
> resort at 1.877.784.6835. Remember to let them know that you are with
> "The Pantera Owners Club of America" to get your discount rates.
>
> For mapping purposes, the LaTorretta Lake Resort and Spa is located at
> 600 La Torretta Boulevard, Montgomery TX 77356 United States.
>
> Their website is [4]http://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed
> by POCA DeTomaso mailing list [5]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 3. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
> 4. http://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 19:54:12 -0500
> From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>
> To: "'John Taphorn'" <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>, "'michael frazier'"
> <red3644 at hotmail.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>, <scpoca at yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
> Message-ID: <009e01cfbb48$17f2c7e0$47d857a0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear John,
>
>
> I, too, have been to the Poconos. I like their schedule set up.
> I think your planned schedule is good.
>
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of John Taphorn
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 7:06 PM
> To: michael frazier; detomaso at poca.com; scpoca at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
>
> Thanks for the feedback. Always room for improvement.
>
> The 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally will run on a different schedule than
> previous years. Registration will open on Friday May 15th with the Car Show
> that evening. The Event will wrap up Tuesday morning the 19th.
> The shift in days of the week is to accommodate access to NASA and the
> Saturday/Sunday track event.
>
> The Friday evening Car Show, will enable the track oriented group to attend
> before their cars get covered in tire boogers. Actually, I don't think tire
> boogers happens at these tamer track events. However, you get the gist -
> before they get dirty. Also, we thought it a great way to kick things off
> getting to know one another and the owners cars. This was how the boys did
> it at Pocono when I would trek up there and I thought it worked well.
>
> The event planners were all curious whether this day shift from the
> traditional Weds through Sunday schedule would be viewed as easier, the same
> or more difficult than previous. We generally thought it would be easier
> for those with jobs and also provide for better flight pricing into Houston
> Intercontinental Airport (IAH) with a weekend layover.
>
> What ya think?
>
> JT
>
>> On 8/18/2014 10:17 AM, michael frazier wrote:
>> Looking forward to it all... Even the contentious staff at the resort!
>> :-)
>>
>> I guess I should work on the Pantera.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:09:12 -0500
>> From: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>> To: DeTomaso at poca.com; SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
>>
>> The POCA 2015 Lone Star Fun Rally raises the bar with the finest
>> resort ever to host a Fun Rally.We are pleased to announce that the
>> Lone Star Fun Rally will feature the La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa,
>> located in Montgomery, Texas.
>>
>> The meticulously planned La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, which
>> recently underwent a 130 million expansion and renovation, will
>> provide Rally guests with an unforgettable vacation experience.Guests
>> of this AAA Four-Diamond Texas Resort can expect to find a family
>> friendly, European-inspired lakeside retreat featuring an inspired
>> balance between nature relaxation and world class sophistication.A
>> great destination for the entire family, La Torretta has the
>> spectacular scenery and the shear elegance of a world-class Texas
>> resort.Guests will enjoy the finest amenities while being pampered by a
> contentious, experienced staff.
>>
>> Recent Fun Rallies have seen the average age of attendees falling,
>> perhaps reflective of De Tomasos changing hands to the next
>> generation.These younger Detomaso owners have begun to bring their
>> families to the event.La Torretta features an exciting program for
>> children ages 5-11, complete with their own private playground, and
>> supervised by the Adventure Pointe's activities staff. Teenagers
>> visiting La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa now have a place to call their
>> very own in The Edge, which features over-stuffed furniture, cool
>> games and the latest in technology, including a WII.The Edge creates a
>> teenage environment that is perfect for hanging out, having fun, or just
> relaxing.
>>
>> La Torretta accommodations have a charming open floor plan,
>> well-appointed art, plush furnishings, and an eclectic mix of colors
>> and textures. Each suite also features a king bed or two double beds,
>> wireless internet, and a private balcony with sweeping views of Lake
> Conroe.
>>
>> The Aqua Park is home to La Torretta Lake Resort's multiple pools
>> featuring an elegant heated upper pool with an infinity edge that
>> cascades down into a 6,400 sq. ft. Mediterranean pool. Other pools
>> include the Breeze Buster pool, the Splash Scape pool with an in-water
>> playground, and the Pollywogs pool for the youngest of water lovers. A
>> sandy beach is located on a quiet lake inlet and is ideal for sunning
>> or splashing around in beautiful Lake Conroe.
>>
>> While the Lone Star Fun Rally Agenda will offer plenty of activities
>> to keep you busy, this is Texas, and here you can choose your own
>> path.The Club at La Torretta Golf experience brings together perfectly
>> manicured
>> 18 holes of golf, top golf instruction, and a traditional surrounding
>> of the Golf Club House all in one location, La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa.
>> The course was re-designed by Jeffery D. Blume, Limited in April 2007
>> to a very challenging and exciting Par 71 course for all skill sets.
>>
>> You and your spouse have access to their 10,000 square foot fitness
>> center featuring cardio, free weights, yoga, Pilates and spin studios
>> -- complete with personal trainers, customized classes, racquetball
>> courts and an adjacent tennis center.
>>
>> While you are burning excessive petrol at full throttle along those
>> Texas backroads or at the TWS track, your spouse may enjoy peace of
>> mind, body and soul at SpaTerre, the internationally inspired Spa
>> offering unparalleled comfort and world-class amenities. This 17,000
>> square foot refuge from life's stresses boasts separate men's and
>> women's retreats with relaxation lounges, Zen inspired gardens,
>> shiatsu massage chairs, flotation journeys and outdoor terraces.
>> SpaTerre is also home to a full-service Aveda salon, barber shop and
>> 13 treatment rooms including couples treatment rooms where Global
>> Rituals, Massages and Body Treatments melt our member's cares away.
>>
>> Carbon footprint you ask? Yeah, probably not.Guilty about driving a
>> brutish environmentally less friendly high powered Sports Car?Of
>> course not!But to provide a bit of eco-balance, La Torretta goes to
>> great lengths to make sure everything they do is as eco-friendly as
> possible.
>> Living in this lovely environment is not a luxury we take lightly. A
>> resort can only be as beautiful as the land it inhabits.
>>
>> Our suite rates at the La Torretta will be $139/ night -- admittedly a
>> little more than recent Fun Rallies.However, this is a great rate for
>> the superior quality, features and services the resort provides.
>> Additional there is a $5/ night resort fee. We have negotiated
>> significant discounts off La Torretta's standard rates.
>>
>>
>> With a variety of unforgettable restaurants and cafes to choose from,
>> you'll have a wide range of options to help satisfy your taste cravings.
>> At Prime you can experience farm fresh, New American Cuisine in this
>> casually elegant and relaxing waterfront restaurant. At Energie-High
>> Energy Sports Bar, come listen to music, watch sports games or simply
>> enjoy great conversation with friends. Essence Cafe-Spa dining
>> features all healthy foods. At Mokka Cafe-Coffee Bar and Bakery,
>> guests can enjoy perfectly prepared delights. At the Yoi Sushi
>> Bar-Elegant Sushi Bar a well-trained team is committed to sourcing the
>> best, freshest fish available. Other La Torretta amenities include:
>>
>> .Indoor Pool
>>
>> .Outdoor Pools
>>
>> .Wireless Internet Access Avail
>>
>> .Free Wifi
>>
>> .Dining On Site
>>
>> .Golf Course On Site
>>
>> .Fitness Room
>>
>> .Tennis Court
>>
>> .Business Center
>>
>> .High-Speed Internet Access
>>
>> .Hot Tub / Jacuzzi
>>
>> .Spa
>>
>> .Free Parking
>>
>> The Fun Rally Committee hopes that you will join us at the La Torretta
>> Resort.Long time Fun Rally participants understand that the event's
>> financial success is incumbent on us meeting room targets at the
>> resort.Achieving these goals, provides us the hospitality suite, bar
>> and banquet discounts that we are able to pass on to the registrants
>> through lower fees.We believe the 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally, when
>> considered as a complete package, is a great value.While our Event
>> Agenda is still taking shape, this year's planned activities include a
>> NASA tour, the pig roast, a car museum visit, a tour of a renown tuner
>> shop, access to the Bush Presidential library, TWS Speedway, car
>> shows, and a Texas historical visit. The more people who participate
>> and DeTomaso cars in attendance, the more enjoyable the experience for
>> everyone.We hope to see you there.
>>
>> When you are ready to make your La Torretta reservation, contact the
>> resort at 1.877.784.6835. Remember to let them know that you are with
>> "The Pantera Owners Club of America" to get your discount rates.
>>
>> For mapping purposes, the LaTorretta Lake Resort and Spa is located at
>> 600 La Torretta Boulevard, Montgomery TX 77356 United States.
>>
>> Their website ishttp://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed
>> by POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 20:40:50 -0500
> From: Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
> To: Space City Panteras <SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] [SCPOCA] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally
> Accommodations
> Message-ID: <1723909E-0792-49A3-9FD1-9A848FEDFCAC at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
>
> Well, I plan to create plenty of tire boogers?
>
>> On Aug 18, 2014, at 19:05, John Taphorn jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com [SCPOCA] <SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback. Always room for improvement.
>>
>> The 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally will run on a different schedule than previous years. Registration will open on Friday May 15th with the Car Show that evening. The Event will wrap up Tuesday morning the 19th. The shift in days of the week is to accommodate access to NASA and the Saturday/Sunday track event.
>>
>> The Friday evening Car Show, will enable the track oriented group to attend before their cars get covered in tire boogers. Actually, I don't think tire boogers happens at these tamer track events. However, you get the gist - before they get dirty. Also, we thought it a great way to kick things off getting to know one another and the owners cars. This was how the boys did it at Pocono when I would trek up there and I thought it worked well.
>>
>> The event planners were all curious whether this day shift from the traditional Weds through Sunday schedule would be viewed as easier, the same or more difficult than previous. We generally thought it would be easier for those with jobs and also provide for better flight pricing into Houston Intercontinental Airport (IAH) with a weekend layover.
>>
>> What ya think?
>>
>> JT
>>
>>
>>> On 8/18/2014 10:17 AM, michael frazier wrote:
>>> Looking forward to it all... Even the contentious staff at the resort! :-)
>>>
>>> I guess I should work on the Pantera.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:09:12 -0500
>>> From: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>>> To: DeTomaso at poca.com; SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
>>>
>>> The POCA 2015 Lone Star Fun Rally raises the bar with the finest resort
>>> ever to host a Fun Rally.We are pleased to announce that the Lone Star
>>> Fun Rally will feature the La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, located in
>>> Montgomery, Texas.
>>>
>>> The meticulously planned La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, which recently
>>> underwent a 130 million expansion and renovation, will provide Rally
>>> guests with an unforgettable vacation experience.Guests of this AAA
>>> Four-Diamond Texas Resort can expect to find a family friendly,
>>> European-inspired lakeside retreat featuring an inspired balance between
>>> nature relaxation and world class sophistication.A great destination for
>>> the entire family, La Torretta has the spectacular scenery and the shear
>>> elegance of a world-class Texas resort.Guests will enjoy the finest
>>> amenities while being pampered by a contentious, experienced staff.
>>>
>>> Recent Fun Rallies have seen the average age of attendees falling,
>>> perhaps reflective of De Tomasos changing hands to the next
>>> generation.These younger Detomaso owners have begun to bring their
>>> families to the event.La Torretta features an exciting program for
>>> children ages 5-11, complete with their own private playground, and
>>> supervised by the Adventure Pointe's activities staff. Teenagers
>>> visiting La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa now have a place to call their
>>> very own in The Edge, which features over-stuffed furniture, cool games
>>> and the latest in technology, including a WII.The Edge creates a teenage
>>> environment that is perfect for hanging out, having fun, or just relaxing.
>>>
>>> La Torretta accommodations have a charming open floor plan,
>>> well-appointed art, plush furnishings, and an eclectic mix of colors and
>>> textures. Each suite also features a king bed or two double beds,
>>> wireless internet, and a private balcony with sweeping views of Lake Conroe.
>>>
>>> The Aqua Park is home to La Torretta Lake Resort's multiple pools
>>> featuring an elegant heated upper pool with an infinity edge that
>>> cascades down into a 6,400 sq. ft. Mediterranean pool. Other pools
>>> include the Breeze Buster pool, the Splash Scape pool with an in-water
>>> playground, and the Pollywogs pool for the youngest of water lovers. A
>>> sandy beach is located on a quiet lake inlet and is ideal for sunning or
>>> splashing around in beautiful Lake Conroe.
>>>
>>> While the Lone Star Fun Rally Agenda will offer plenty of activities to
>>> keep you busy, this is Texas, and here you can choose your own path.The
>>> Club at La Torretta Golf experience brings together perfectly manicured
>>> 18 holes of golf, top golf instruction, and a traditional surrounding of
>>> the Golf Club House all in one location, La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa.
>>> The course was re-designed by Jeffery D. Blume, Limited in April 2007 to
>>> a very challenging and exciting Par 71 course for all skill sets.
>>>
>>> You and your spouse have access to their 10,000 square foot fitness
>>> center featuring cardio, free weights, yoga, Pilates and spin studios --
>>> complete with personal trainers, customized classes, racquetball courts
>>> and an adjacent tennis center.
>>>
>>> While you are burning excessive petrol at full throttle along those
>>> Texas backroads or at the TWS track, your spouse may enjoy peace of
>>> mind, body and soul at SpaTerre, the internationally inspired Spa
>>> offering unparalleled comfort and world-class amenities. This 17,000
>>> square foot refuge from life's stresses boasts separate men's and
>>> women's retreats with relaxation lounges, Zen inspired gardens, shiatsu
>>> massage chairs, flotation journeys and outdoor terraces. SpaTerre is
>>> also home to a full-service Aveda salon, barber shop and 13 treatment
>>> rooms including couples treatment rooms where Global Rituals, Massages
>>> and Body Treatments melt our member's cares away.
>>>
>>> Carbon footprint you ask? Yeah, probably not.Guilty about driving a
>>> brutish environmentally less friendly high powered Sports Car?Of course
>>> not!But to provide a bit of eco-balance, La Torretta goes to great
>>> lengths to make sure everything they do is as eco-friendly as possible.
>>> Living in this lovely environment is not a luxury we take lightly. A
>>> resort can only be as beautiful as the land it inhabits.
>>>
>>> Our suite rates at the La Torretta will be $139/ night -- admittedly a
>>> little more than recent Fun Rallies.However, this is a great rate for
>>> the superior quality, features and services the resort provides.
>>> Additional there is a $5/ night resort fee. We have negotiated
>>> significant discounts off La Torretta's standard rates.
>>>
>>>
>>> With a variety of unforgettable restaurants and cafes to choose from,
>>> you'll have a wide range of options to help satisfy your taste cravings.
>>> At Prime you can experience farm fresh, New American Cuisine in this
>>> casually elegant and relaxing waterfront restaurant. At Energie-High
>>> Energy Sports Bar, come listen to music, watch sports games or simply
>>> enjoy great conversation with friends. Essence Cafe-Spa dining features
>>> all healthy foods. At Mokka Cafe-Coffee Bar and Bakery, guests can enjoy
>>> perfectly prepared delights. At the Yoi Sushi Bar-Elegant Sushi Bar a
>>> well-trained team is committed to sourcing the best, freshest fish
>>> available. Other La Torretta amenities include:
>>>
>>> ?Indoor Pool
>>>
>>> ?Outdoor Pools
>>>
>>> ?Wireless Internet Access Avail
>>>
>>> ?Free Wifi
>>>
>>> ?Dining On Site
>>>
>>> ?Golf Course On Site
>>>
>>> ?Fitness Room
>>>
>>> ?Tennis Court
>>>
>>> ?Business Center
>>>
>>> ?High-Speed Internet Access
>>>
>>> ?Hot Tub / Jacuzzi
>>>
>>> ?Spa
>>>
>>> ?Free Parking
>>>
>>> The Fun Rally Committee hopes that you will join us at the La Torretta
>>> Resort.Long time Fun Rally participants understand that the event's
>>> financial success is incumbent on us meeting room targets at the
>>> resort.Achieving these goals, provides us the hospitality suite, bar and
>>> banquet discounts that we are able to pass on to the registrants through
>>> lower fees.We believe the 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally, when considered
>>> as a complete package, is a great value.While our Event Agenda is still
>>> taking shape, this year's planned activities include a NASA tour, the
>>> pig roast, a car museum visit, a tour of a renown tuner shop, access to
>>> the Bush Presidential library, TWS Speedway, car shows, and a Texas
>>> historical visit. The more people who participate and DeTomaso cars in
>>> attendance, the more enjoyable the experience for everyone.We hope to
>>> see you there.
>>>
>>> When you are ready to make your La Torretta reservation, contact the
>>> resort at 1.877.784.6835. Remember to let them know that you are with
>>> "The Pantera Owners Club of America" to get your discount rates.
>>>
>>> For mapping purposes, the LaTorretta Lake Resort and Spa is located at
>>> 600 La Torretta Boulevard, Montgomery TX 77356 United States.
>>>
>>> Their website is http://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.comhttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> __._,_.___
>> Posted by: John Taphorn <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
>> Reply via web post ? Reply to sender ? Reply to group ? Start a New Topic ? Messages in this topic (2)
>> VISIT YOUR GROUP
>> ? Privacy ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>> __,_._,___
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Well, I plan to create plenty of tire boogers...
>
> On Aug 18, 2014, at 19:05, John Taphorn [1]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> [SCPOCA] <[2]SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the feedback. Always room for improvement.
> The 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally will run on a different schedule than
> previous years. Registration will open on Friday May 15th with the Car
> Show that evening. The Event will wrap up Tuesday morning the 19th.
> The shift in days of the week is to accommodate access to NASA and the
> Saturday/Sunday track event.
> The Friday evening Car Show, will enable the track oriented group to
> attend before their cars get covered in tire boogers. Actually, I
> don't think tire boogers happens at these tamer track events. However,
> you get the gist - before they get dirty. Also, we thought it a great
> way to kick things off getting to know one another and the owners
> cars. This was how the boys did it at Pocono when I would trek up
> there and I thought it worked well.
> The event planners were all curious whether this day shift from the
> traditional Weds through Sunday schedule would be viewed as easier, the
> same or more difficult than previous. We generally thought it would be
> easier for those with jobs and also provide for better flight pricing
> into Houston Intercontinental Airport (IAH) with a weekend layover.
> What ya think?
> JT
> On 8/18/2014 10:17 AM, michael frazier wrote:
>
> Looking forward to it all... Even the contentious staff at the
> resort! :-)
> I guess I should work on the Pantera.
> Michael
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:09:12 -0500
> From: [3]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> To: [4]DeTomaso at poca.com; [5]SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
> The POCA 2015 Lone Star Fun Rally raises the bar with the finest resort
> ever to host a Fun Rally.We are pleased to announce that the Lone Star
> Fun Rally will feature the La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, located in
> Montgomery, Texas.
>
> The meticulously planned La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, which recently
> underwent a 130 million expansion and renovation, will provide Rally
> guests with an unforgettable vacation experience.Guests of this AAA
> Four-Diamond Texas Resort can expect to find a family friendly,
> European-inspired lakeside retreat featuring an inspired balance between
> nature relaxation and world class sophistication.A great destination for
> the entire family, La Torretta has the spectacular scenery and the shear
> elegance of a world-class Texas resort.Guests will enjoy the finest
> amenities while being pampered by a contentious, experienced staff.
>
> Recent Fun Rallies have seen the average age of attendees falling,
> perhaps reflective of De Tomasos changing hands to the next
> generation.These younger Detomaso owners have begun to bring their
> families to the event.La Torretta features an exciting program for
> children ages 5-11, complete with their own private playground, and
> supervised by the Adventure Pointe's activities staff. Teenagers
> visiting La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa now have a place to call their
> very own in The Edge, which features over-stuffed furniture, cool games
> and the latest in technology, including a WII.The Edge creates a teenage
> environment that is perfect for hanging out, having fun, or just relaxing.
>
> La Torretta accommodations have a charming open floor plan,
> well-appointed art, plush furnishings, and an eclectic mix of colors and
> textures. Each suite also features a king bed or two double beds,
> wireless internet, and a private balcony with sweeping views of Lake Conroe.
>
> The Aqua Park is home to La Torretta Lake Resort's multiple pools
> featuring an elegant heated upper pool with an infinity edge that
> cascades down into a 6,400 sq. ft. Mediterranean pool. Other pools
> include the Breeze Buster pool, the Splash Scape pool with an in-water
> playground, and the Pollywogs pool for the youngest of water lovers. A
> sandy beach is located on a quiet lake inlet and is ideal for sunning or
> splashing around in beautiful Lake Conroe.
>
> While the Lone Star Fun Rally Agenda will offer plenty of activities to
> keep you busy, this is Texas, and here you can choose your own path.The
> Club at La Torretta Golf experience brings together perfectly manicured
> 18 holes of golf, top golf instruction, and a traditional surrounding of
> the Golf Club House all in one location, La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa.
> The course was re-designed by Jeffery D. Blume, Limited in April 2007 to
> a very challenging and exciting Par 71 course for all skill sets.
>
> You and your spouse have access to their 10,000 square foot fitness
> center featuring cardio, free weights, yoga, Pilates and spin studios --
> complete with personal trainers, customized classes, racquetball courts
> and an adjacent tennis center.
>
> While you are burning excessive petrol at full throttle along those
> Texas backroads or at the TWS track, your spouse may enjoy peace of
> mind, body and soul at SpaTerre, the internationally inspired Spa
> offering unparalleled comfort and world-class amenities. This 17,000
> square foot refuge from life's stresses boasts separate men's and
> women's retreats with relaxation lounges, Zen inspired gardens, shiatsu
> massage chairs, flotation journeys and outdoor terraces. SpaTerre is
> also home to a full-service Aveda salon, barber shop and 13 treatment
> rooms including couples treatment rooms where Global Rituals, Massages
> and Body Treatments melt our member's cares away.
>
> Carbon footprint you ask? Yeah, probably not.Guilty about driving a
> brutish environmentally less friendly high powered Sports Car?Of course
> not!But to provide a bit of eco-balance, La Torretta goes to great
> lengths to make sure everything they do is as eco-friendly as possible.
> Living in this lovely environment is not a luxury we take lightly. A
> resort can only be as beautiful as the land it inhabits.
>
> Our suite rates at the La Torretta will be $139/ night -- admittedly a
> little more than recent Fun Rallies.However, this is a great rate for
> the superior quality, features and services the resort provides.
> Additional there is a $5/ night resort fee. We have negotiated
> significant discounts off La Torretta's standard rates.
>
>
> With a variety of unforgettable restaurants and cafes to choose from,
> you'll have a wide range of options to help satisfy your taste cravings.
> At Prime you can experience farm fresh, New American Cuisine in this
> casually elegant and relaxing waterfront restaurant. At Energie-High
> Energy Sports Bar, come listen to music, watch sports games or simply
> enjoy great conversation with friends. Essence Cafe-Spa dining features
> all healthy foods. At Mokka Cafe-Coffee Bar and Bakery, guests can enjoy
> perfectly prepared delights. At the Yoi Sushi Bar-Elegant Sushi Bar a
> well-trained team is committed to sourcing the best, freshest fish
> available. Other La Torretta amenities include:
>
> .Indoor Pool
>
> .Outdoor Pools
>
> .Wireless Internet Access Avail
>
> .Free Wifi
>
> .Dining On Site
>
> .Golf Course On Site
>
> .Fitness Room
>
> .Tennis Court
>
> .Business Center
>
> .High-Speed Internet Access
>
> .Hot Tub / Jacuzzi
>
> .Spa
>
> .Free Parking
>
> The Fun Rally Committee hopes that you will join us at the La Torretta
> Resort.Long time Fun Rally participants understand that the event's
> financial success is incumbent on us meeting room targets at the
> resort.Achieving these goals, provides us the hospitality suite, bar and
> banquet discounts that we are able to pass on to the registrants through
> lower fees.We believe the 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally, when considered
> as a complete package, is a great value.While our Event Agenda is still
> taking shape, this year's planned activities include a NASA tour, the
> pig roast, a car museum visit, a tour of a renown tuner shop, access to
> the Bush Presidential library, TWS Speedway, car shows, and a Texas
> historical visit. The more people who participate and DeTomaso cars in
> attendance, the more enjoyable the experience for everyone.We hope to
> see you there.
>
> When you are ready to make your La Torretta reservation, contact the
> resort at 1.877.784.6835. Remember to let them know that you are with
> "The Pantera Owners Club of America" to get your discount rates.
>
> For mapping purposes, the LaTorretta Lake Resort and Spa is located at
> 600 La Torretta Boulevard, Montgomery TX 77356 United States.
>
> Their website is [6]http://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed
> by POCA DeTomaso mailing
> list [7]DeTomaso at poca.com[8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_p
> oca.com
>
> __._,_.___
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> Posted by: John Taphorn <[9]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> [10]Reply via web post o [11]Reply to sender o [12]Reply to group o
> [13]Start a New Topic o [14]Messages in this topic (2)
> [15]VISIT YOUR GROUP
>
> [16]Yahoo! Groups
> o [17]Privacy o [18]Unsubscribe o [19]Terms of Use
> .
> [stime=1408406736]
> [fpc.pl?ywarid=515FB27823A7407E&a=10001310322279&js=no&resp
> =img]
> __,_._,___
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> 2. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
> 3. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> 4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 5. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
> 6. http://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 9. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> 10. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/messages/16840;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaDk5MTkyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BG1zZ0lkAzE2ODQwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQwNjczNg--?act=reply&messageNum=16840
> 11. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%202015%20POCA%20Lone%20Star%20Fun%20Rally%20Accommodations
> 12. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%202015%20POCA%20Lone%20Star%20Fun%20Rally%20Accommodations
> 13. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJldmVwN21hBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQwNjczNg--
> 14. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/topics/16837;_ylc=X3oDMTM2anA1bTMxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BG1zZ0lkAzE2ODQwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQwNjczNgR0cGNJZAMxNjgzNw--
> 15. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN3M0cGw4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQwNjczNg--
> 16. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZzZtbms1BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDA4NDA2NzM2
> 17. https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html
> 18. mailto:SCPOCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
> 19. https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 23:05:40 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com, sobill at aol.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] ZF drain plugs - common AC/Delco part #
> Message-ID: <8D1897197E76B13-2288-2B8DE at webmail-vd015.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> All,
>
> Our ZF drain/fill plugs are 24mm x 1.5 which seem to be scarce at the chain parts houses.
>
> I recently tracked down a common, readily available and inexpensive version.
>
> It is an AC/Delco part - #23049841
>
> Here is a current eBay Buy It Now listing, at $12.06 with free shipping.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/EBAY-ZF-AD
>
> Takes the standard 17mm hex tool and has an integral magnet.
>
> Larry
> -------------- next part --------------
> All,
> Our ZF drain/fill plugs are 24mm x 1.5 which seem to be scarce at the
> chain parts houses.
> I recently tracked down a common, readily available and inexpensive
> version.
> It is an AC/Delco part - #23049841
> Here is a current eBay Buy It Now listing, at $12.06 with free
> shipping.
> http://tinyurl.com/EBAY-ZF-AD
> Takes the standard 17mm hex tool and has an integral magnet.
> Larry
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 22:40:55 -0500
> From: John Taphorn <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
> To: SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] [SCPOCA] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally
> Accommodations
> Message-ID: <53F2C747.8070005 at kingwoodcable.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>
> No doubt you will be flinging boogers. But who will be quick enough to
> stay close enough behind you to get hit by them. You've got a power to
> weight ratio that only a very few can match. We had that Pantera on the
> scales once and I think it was about 2400lbs. I think you have over 500hp.
>
> Am I in the ballpark?
>
> JT
>
> On 8/18/2014 8:40 PM, Kirby Schrader kirby.schrader at gmail.com [SCPOCA]
> wrote:
>>
>> Well, I plan to create plenty of tire boogers?
>>
>>> On Aug 18, 2014, at 19:05, John Taphorn jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>>> <mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com> [SCPOCA] <SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback. Always room for improvement.
>>>
>>> The 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally will run on a different schedule
>>> than previous years. Registration will open on Friday May 15th with
>>> the Car Show that evening. The Event will wrap up Tuesday morning
>>> the 19th. The shift in days of the week is to accommodate access to
>>> NASA and the Saturday/Sunday track event.
>>>
>>> The Friday evening Car Show, will enable the track oriented group to
>>> attend before their cars get covered in tire boogers. Actually, I
>>> don't think tire boogers happens at these tamer track events.
>>> However, you get the gist - before they get dirty. Also, we thought
>>> it a great way to kick things off getting to know one another and the
>>> owners cars. This was how the boys did it at Pocono when I would
>>> trek up there and I thought it worked well.
>>>
>>> The event planners were all curious whether this day shift from the
>>> traditional Weds through Sunday schedule would be viewed as easier,
>>> the same or more difficult than previous. We generally thought it
>>> would be easier for those with jobs and also provide for better
>>> flight pricing into Houston Intercontinental Airport (IAH) with a
>>> weekend layover.
>>>
>>> What ya think?
>>>
>>> JT
>>>
>>>> On 8/18/2014 10:17 AM, michael frazier wrote:
>>>> Looking forward to it all... Even the contentious staff at the
>>>> resort! :-)
>>>>
>>>> I guess I should work on the Pantera.
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:09:12 -0500
>>>> From:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>>>> To:DeTomaso at poca.com;SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
>>>>
>>>> The POCA 2015 Lone Star Fun Rally raises the bar with the finest resort
>>>> ever to host a Fun Rally.We are pleased to announce that the Lone Star
>>>> Fun Rally will feature the La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, located in
>>>> Montgomery, Texas.
>>>>
>>>> The meticulously planned La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, which recently
>>>> underwent a 130 million expansion and renovation, will provide Rally
>>>> guests with an unforgettable vacation experience.Guests of this AAA
>>>> Four-Diamond Texas Resort can expect to find a family friendly,
>>>> European-inspired lakeside retreat featuring an inspired balance between
>>>> nature relaxation and world class sophistication.A great destination for
>>>> the entire family, La Torretta has the spectacular scenery and the shear
>>>> elegance of a world-class Texas resort.Guests will enjoy the finest
>>>> amenities while being pampered by a contentious, experienced staff.
>>>>
>>>> Recent Fun Rallies have seen the average age of attendees falling,
>>>> perhaps reflective of De Tomasos changing hands to the next
>>>> generation.These younger Detomaso owners have begun to bring their
>>>> families to the event.La Torretta features an exciting program for
>>>> children ages 5-11, complete with their own private playground, and
>>>> supervised by the Adventure Pointe's activities staff. Teenagers
>>>> visiting La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa now have a place to call their
>>>> very own in The Edge, which features over-stuffed furniture, cool games
>>>> and the latest in technology, including a WII.The Edge creates a teenage
>>>> environment that is perfect for hanging out, having fun, or just relaxing.
>>>>
>>>> La Torretta accommodations have a charming open floor plan,
>>>> well-appointed art, plush furnishings, and an eclectic mix of colors and
>>>> textures. Each suite also features a king bed or two double beds,
>>>> wireless internet, and a private balcony with sweeping views of Lake Conroe.
>>>>
>>>> The Aqua Park is home to La Torretta Lake Resort's multiple pools
>>>> featuring an elegant heated upper pool with an infinity edge that
>>>> cascades down into a 6,400 sq. ft. Mediterranean pool. Other pools
>>>> include the Breeze Buster pool, the Splash Scape pool with an in-water
>>>> playground, and the Pollywogs pool for the youngest of water lovers. A
>>>> sandy beach is located on a quiet lake inlet and is ideal for sunning or
>>>> splashing around in beautiful Lake Conroe.
>>>>
>>>> While the Lone Star Fun Rally Agenda will offer plenty of activities to
>>>> keep you busy, this is Texas, and here you can choose your own path.The
>>>> Club at La Torretta Golf experience brings together perfectly manicured
>>>> 18 holes of golf, top golf instruction, and a traditional surrounding of
>>>> the Golf Club House all in one location, La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa.
>>>> The course was re-designed by Jeffery D. Blume, Limited in April 2007 to
>>>> a very challenging and exciting Par 71 course for all skill sets.
>>>>
>>>> You and your spouse have access to their 10,000 square foot fitness
>>>> center featuring cardio, free weights, yoga, Pilates and spin studios --
>>>> complete with personal trainers, customized classes, racquetball courts
>>>> and an adjacent tennis center.
>>>>
>>>> While you are burning excessive petrol at full throttle along those
>>>> Texas backroads or at the TWS track, your spouse may enjoy peace of
>>>> mind, body and soul at SpaTerre, the internationally inspired Spa
>>>> offering unparalleled comfort and world-class amenities. This 17,000
>>>> square foot refuge from life's stresses boasts separate men's and
>>>> women's retreats with relaxation lounges, Zen inspired gardens, shiatsu
>>>> massage chairs, flotation journeys and outdoor terraces. SpaTerre is
>>>> also home to a full-service Aveda salon, barber shop and 13 treatment
>>>> rooms including couples treatment rooms where Global Rituals, Massages
>>>> and Body Treatments melt our member's cares away.
>>>>
>>>> Carbon footprint you ask? Yeah, probably not.Guilty about driving a
>>>> brutish environmentally less friendly high powered Sports Car?Of course
>>>> not!But to provide a bit of eco-balance, La Torretta goes to great
>>>> lengths to make sure everything they do is as eco-friendly as possible.
>>>> Living in this lovely environment is not a luxury we take lightly. A
>>>> resort can only be as beautiful as the land it inhabits.
>>>>
>>>> Our suite rates at the La Torretta will be $139/ night -- admittedly a
>>>> little more than recent Fun Rallies.However, this is a great rate for
>>>> the superior quality, features and services the resort provides.
>>>> Additional there is a $5/ night resort fee. We have negotiated
>>>> significant discounts off La Torretta's standard rates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With a variety of unforgettable restaurants and cafes to choose from,
>>>> you'll have a wide range of options to help satisfy your taste cravings.
>>>> At Prime you can experience farm fresh, New American Cuisine in this
>>>> casually elegant and relaxing waterfront restaurant. At Energie-High
>>>> Energy Sports Bar, come listen to music, watch sports games or simply
>>>> enjoy great conversation with friends. Essence Cafe-Spa dining features
>>>> all healthy foods. At Mokka Cafe-Coffee Bar and Bakery, guests can enjoy
>>>> perfectly prepared delights. At the Yoi Sushi Bar-Elegant Sushi Bar a
>>>> well-trained team is committed to sourcing the best, freshest fish
>>>> available. Other La Torretta amenities include:
>>>>
>>>> ?Indoor Pool
>>>>
>>>> ?Outdoor Pools
>>>>
>>>> ?Wireless Internet Access Avail
>>>>
>>>> ?Free Wifi
>>>>
>>>> ?Dining On Site
>>>>
>>>> ?Golf Course On Site
>>>>
>>>> ?Fitness Room
>>>>
>>>> ?Tennis Court
>>>>
>>>> ?Business Center
>>>>
>>>> ?High-Speed Internet Access
>>>>
>>>> ?Hot Tub / Jacuzzi
>>>>
>>>> ?Spa
>>>>
>>>> ?Free Parking
>>>>
>>>> The Fun Rally Committee hopes that you will join us at the La Torretta
>>>> Resort.Long time Fun Rally participants understand that the event's
>>>> financial success is incumbent on us meeting room targets at the
>>>> resort.Achieving these goals, provides us the hospitality suite, bar and
>>>> banquet discounts that we are able to pass on to the registrants through
>>>> lower fees.We believe the 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally, when considered
>>>> as a complete package, is a great value.While our Event Agenda is still
>>>> taking shape, this year's planned activities include a NASA tour, the
>>>> pig roast, a car museum visit, a tour of a renown tuner shop, access to
>>>> the Bush Presidential library, TWS Speedway, car shows, and a Texas
>>>> historical visit. The more people who participate and DeTomaso cars in
>>>> attendance, the more enjoyable the experience for everyone.We hope to
>>>> see you there.
>>>>
>>>> When you are ready to make your La Torretta reservation, contact the
>>>> resort at 1.877.784.6835. Remember to let them know that you are with
>>>> "The Pantera Owners Club of America" to get your discount rates.
>>>>
>>>> For mapping purposes, the LaTorretta Lake Resort and Spa is located at
>>>> 600 La Torretta Boulevard, Montgomery TX 77356 United States.
>>>>
>>>> Their website ishttp://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum
>>>> Managed by POCA DeTomaso mailing
>>>> listDeTomaso at poca.comhttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> __._,_.___
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Posted by: Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Reply via web post
>> <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/messages/16841;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcmpnOThpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BG1zZ0lkAzE2ODQxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxMjQ1NA--?act=reply&messageNum=16841>
>> ? Reply to sender
>> <mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BSCPOCA%5D%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%202015%20POCA%20Lone%20Star%20Fun%20Rally%20Accommodations>
>> ? Reply to group
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>> ? Start a New Topic
>> <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYTd2ZGNpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxMjQ1NA-->
>> ? Messages in this topic
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>> (3)
>>
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>> .
>>
>> __,_._,___
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> No doubt you will be flinging boogers. But who will be quick enough to
> stay close enough behind you to get hit by them. You've got a power to
> weight ratio that only a very few can match. We had that Pantera on the
> scales once and I think it was about 2400lbs. I think you have over
> 500hp.
> Am I in the ballpark?
> JT
>
> On 8/18/2014 8:40 PM, Kirby Schrader [1]kirby.schrader at gmail.com
> [SCPOCA] wrote:
>
>
> Well, I plan to create plenty of tire boogers...
>
> On Aug 18, 2014, at 19:05, John Taphorn [2]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> [SCPOCA] <[3]SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the feedback. Always room for improvement.
> The 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally will run on a different schedule than
> previous years. Registration will open on Friday May 15th with the Car
> Show that evening. The Event will wrap up Tuesday morning the 19th.
> The shift in days of the week is to accommodate access to NASA and the
> Saturday/Sunday track event.
> The Friday evening Car Show, will enable the track oriented group to
> attend before their cars get covered in tire boogers. Actually, I
> don't think tire boogers happens at these tamer track events. However,
> you get the gist - before they get dirty. Also, we thought it a great
> way to kick things off getting to know one another and the owners
> cars. This was how the boys did it at Pocono when I would trek up
> there and I thought it worked well.
> The event planners were all curious whether this day shift from the
> traditional Weds through Sunday schedule would be viewed as easier, the
> same or more difficult than previous. We generally thought it would be
> easier for those with jobs and also provide for better flight pricing
> into Houston Intercontinental Airport (IAH) with a weekend layover.
> What ya think?
> JT
> On 8/18/2014 10:17 AM, michael frazier wrote:
>
> Looking forward to it all... Even the contentious staff at the
> resort! :-)
> I guess I should work on the Pantera.
> Michael
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:09:12 -0500
> From: [4]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> To: [5]DeTomaso at poca.com; [6]SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
> The POCA 2015 Lone Star Fun Rally raises the bar with the finest resort
> ever to host a Fun Rally.We are pleased to announce that the Lone Star
> Fun Rally will feature the La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, located in
> Montgomery, Texas.
>
> The meticulously planned La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, which recently
> underwent a 130 million expansion and renovation, will provide Rally
> guests with an unforgettable vacation experience.Guests of this AAA
> Four-Diamond Texas Resort can expect to find a family friendly,
> European-inspired lakeside retreat featuring an inspired balance between
> nature relaxation and world class sophistication.A great destination for
> the entire family, La Torretta has the spectacular scenery and the shear
> elegance of a world-class Texas resort.Guests will enjoy the finest
> amenities while being pampered by a contentious, experienced staff.
>
> Recent Fun Rallies have seen the average age of attendees falling,
> perhaps reflective of De Tomasos changing hands to the next
> generation.These younger Detomaso owners have begun to bring their
> families to the event.La Torretta features an exciting program for
> children ages 5-11, complete with their own private playground, and
> supervised by the Adventure Pointe's activities staff. Teenagers
> visiting La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa now have a place to call their
> very own in The Edge, which features over-stuffed furniture, cool games
> and the latest in technology, including a WII.The Edge creates a teenage
> environment that is perfect for hanging out, having fun, or just relaxing.
>
> La Torretta accommodations have a charming open floor plan,
> well-appointed art, plush furnishings, and an eclectic mix of colors and
> textures. Each suite also features a king bed or two double beds,
> wireless internet, and a private balcony with sweeping views of Lake Conroe.
>
> The Aqua Park is home to La Torretta Lake Resort's multiple pools
> featuring an elegant heated upper pool with an infinity edge that
> cascades down into a 6,400 sq. ft. Mediterranean pool. Other pools
> include the Breeze Buster pool, the Splash Scape pool with an in-water
> playground, and the Pollywogs pool for the youngest of water lovers. A
> sandy beach is located on a quiet lake inlet and is ideal for sunning or
> splashing around in beautiful Lake Conroe.
>
> While the Lone Star Fun Rally Agenda will offer plenty of activities to
> keep you busy, this is Texas, and here you can choose your own path.The
> Club at La Torretta Golf experience brings together perfectly manicured
> 18 holes of golf, top golf instruction, and a traditional surrounding of
> the Golf Club House all in one location, La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa.
> The course was re-designed by Jeffery D. Blume, Limited in April 2007 to
> a very challenging and exciting Par 71 course for all skill sets.
>
> You and your spouse have access to their 10,000 square foot fitness
> center featuring cardio, free weights, yoga, Pilates and spin studios --
> complete with personal trainers, customized classes, racquetball courts
> and an adjacent tennis center.
>
> While you are burning excessive petrol at full throttle along those
> Texas backroads or at the TWS track, your spouse may enjoy peace of
> mind, body and soul at SpaTerre, the internationally inspired Spa
> offering unparalleled comfort and world-class amenities. This 17,000
> square foot refuge from life's stresses boasts separate men's and
> women's retreats with relaxation lounges, Zen inspired gardens, shiatsu
> massage chairs, flotation journeys and outdoor terraces. SpaTerre is
> also home to a full-service Aveda salon, barber shop and 13 treatment
> rooms including couples treatment rooms where Global Rituals, Massages
> and Body Treatments melt our member's cares away.
>
> Carbon footprint you ask? Yeah, probably not.Guilty about driving a
> brutish environmentally less friendly high powered Sports Car?Of course
> not!But to provide a bit of eco-balance, La Torretta goes to great
> lengths to make sure everything they do is as eco-friendly as possible.
> Living in this lovely environment is not a luxury we take lightly. A
> resort can only be as beautiful as the land it inhabits.
>
> Our suite rates at the La Torretta will be $139/ night -- admittedly a
> little more than recent Fun Rallies.However, this is a great rate for
> the superior quality, features and services the resort provides.
> Additional there is a $5/ night resort fee. We have negotiated
> significant discounts off La Torretta's standard rates.
>
>
> With a variety of unforgettable restaurants and cafes to choose from,
> you'll have a wide range of options to help satisfy your taste cravings.
> At Prime you can experience farm fresh, New American Cuisine in this
> casually elegant and relaxing waterfront restaurant. At Energie-High
> Energy Sports Bar, come listen to music, watch sports games or simply
> enjoy great conversation with friends. Essence Cafe-Spa dining features
> all healthy foods. At Mokka Cafe-Coffee Bar and Bakery, guests can enjoy
> perfectly prepared delights. At the Yoi Sushi Bar-Elegant Sushi Bar a
> well-trained team is committed to sourcing the best, freshest fish
> available. Other La Torretta amenities include:
>
> .Indoor Pool
>
> .Outdoor Pools
>
> .Wireless Internet Access Avail
>
> .Free Wifi
>
> .Dining On Site
>
> .Golf Course On Site
>
> .Fitness Room
>
> .Tennis Court
>
> .Business Center
>
> .High-Speed Internet Access
>
> .Hot Tub / Jacuzzi
>
> .Spa
>
> .Free Parking
>
> The Fun Rally Committee hopes that you will join us at the La Torretta
> Resort.Long time Fun Rally participants understand that the event's
> financial success is incumbent on us meeting room targets at the
> resort.Achieving these goals, provides us the hospitality suite, bar and
> banquet discounts that we are able to pass on to the registrants through
> lower fees.We believe the 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally, when considered
> as a complete package, is a great value.While our Event Agenda is still
> taking shape, this year's planned activities include a NASA tour, the
> pig roast, a car museum visit, a tour of a renown tuner shop, access to
> the Bush Presidential library, TWS Speedway, car shows, and a Texas
> historical visit. The more people who participate and DeTomaso cars in
> attendance, the more enjoyable the experience for everyone.We hope to
> see you there.
>
> When you are ready to make your La Torretta reservation, contact the
> resort at 1.877.784.6835. Remember to let them know that you are with
> "The Pantera Owners Club of America" to get your discount rates.
>
> For mapping purposes, the LaTorretta Lake Resort and Spa is located at
> 600 La Torretta Boulevard, Montgomery TX 77356 United States.
>
> Their website is [7]http://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed
> by POCA DeTomaso mailing
> list [8]DeTomaso at poca.com[9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_p
> oca.com
>
> __._,_.___
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> Posted by: Kirby Schrader [10]<kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> [11]Reply via web post o [12]Reply to sender o [13]Reply to group o
> [14]Start a New Topic o [15]Messages in this topic (3)
> [16]Visit Your Group
>
> [17]Yahoo! Groups
> o [18]Privacy o [19]Unsubscribe o [20]Terms of Use
> .
>
> [stime=1408412454]
> [fpc.pl?ywarid=515FB27823A7407E&a=10001310322279&js=no&r
> esp=img]
>
> __,_._,___
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com
> 2. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> 3. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
> 4. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 6. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
> 7. http://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
> 8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 10. mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com
> 11. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/messages/16841;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcmpnOThpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BG1zZ0lkAzE2ODQxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxMjQ1NA--?act=reply&messageNum=16841
> 12. mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BSCPOCA%5D%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%202015%20POCA%20Lone%20Star%20Fun%20Rally%20Accommodations
> 13. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BSCPOCA%5D%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%202015%20POCA%20Lone%20Star%20Fun%20Rally%20Accommodations
> 14. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYTd2ZGNpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxMjQ1NA--
> 15. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/topics/16837;_ylc=X3oDMTM2ZmsxcWZyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BG1zZ0lkAzE2ODQxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxMjQ1NAR0cGNJZAMxNjgzNw--
> 16. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlanBwdmYzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxMjQ1NA--
> 17. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM2lwc2MyBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDA4NDEyNDU0
> 18. https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html
> 19. mailto:SCPOCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
> 20. https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 23:56:43 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
> To: bjbstewart at yahoo.com, MikeLDrew at aol.com, detomaso at POCA.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Longchamp no-sale in Monterey
> Message-ID: <8D18978B982F685-1B6C-F142 at webmail-va091.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
> The "Not legal in California and cannot be sold to a California resident" fine print at the bottom of the description sheet on the car probably had a big impact on its value.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brent Stewart via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> To: MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso at POCA.com>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 18, 2014 1:25 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Longchamp no-sale in Monterey
>
>
> There were a few other Panteras up for auction last weekend - any news
> on the results?
> On Monday, August 18, 2014 1:01 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> Hi guys,
> An '83 Longchamp was a no-sale at Russo and Steele in Monterey,
> reportedly with a bid around $38K. Other than the FUGLY wheels it
> looks really nice, especially with the first-gen bumpers on a later
> 3000-series car.
>
> [1]http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp
> /91
> 151
> The blacked-out trim is a very 80's treatment; I prefer the chrome
> look
> but this car certainly looks menacing....
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp/91
> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> The "Not legal in California and cannot be sold to a California
> resident" fine print at the bottom of the description sheet on the
> car probably had a big impact on its value.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brent Stewart via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> To: MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso at POCA.com>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 18, 2014 1:25 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Longchamp no-sale in Monterey
> There were a few other Panteras up for auction last weekend - any news
> on the results?
> On Monday, August 18, 2014 1:01 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[1]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> Hi guys,
> An '83 Longchamp was a no-sale at Russo and Steele in Monterey,
> reportedly with a bid around $38K. Other than the FUGLY wheels it
> looks really nice, especially with the first-gen bumpers on a later
> 3000-series car.
>
> [1][2]http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp
> /91
> 151
> The blacked-out trim is a very 80's treatment; I prefer the chrome
> look
> but this car certainly looks menacing....
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2][3]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [3][4]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. [5]http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp/91
> 2. [6]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 3. [7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [8]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 2. http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp
> 3. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 4. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 5. http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp/91
> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
> 7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 21:20:12 -0700
> From: Mike Scardina <a42n8cfo at yahoo.com>
> To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Monterey auction results
> Message-ID:
> <1408422012.79074.YahooMailNeo at web125702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Did anyone here attend the Mecum auction in Monterey and see the 1974 GTS Pantera in person? ?It was described as follows:?
>
> "To this day it remains virtually untouched and beautifully preserved, including the original tools, space-saver spare and inflation canister. As one of the best of its kind in the world it has enormous value as a reference car for restorations and would be a premium addition to any collection of world-class sports cars."
>
> From the photos it clearly had replacement mirrors and the black hood and deck lid appeared to be gloss black instead of the proper charcoal metal flake.... hardly a proper reference car for restorations.
>
> The auction estimate was $150.000 - $175,000, but the $120,000 bid seemed to me to be all the money. Yet, I'm happy to see the Pantera holding its own. ?Have our cars recently taken a giant leap in value or was this just an auction aberration?
> -------------- next part --------------
> Did anyone here attend the Mecum auction in Monterey and see the 1974
> GTS Pantera in person? It was described as follows:
> "To this day it remains virtually untouched and beautifully preserved,
> including the original tools, space-saver spare and inflation canister.
> As one of the best of its kind in the world it has enormous value as a
> reference car for restorations and would be a premium addition to any
> collection of world-class sports cars."
> From the photos it clearly had replacement mirrors and the black hood
> and deck lid appeared to be gloss black instead of the proper charcoal
> metal flake.... hardly a proper reference car for restorations.
> The auction estimate was $150.000 - $175,000, but the $120,000 bid
> seemed to me to be all the money. Yet, I'm happy to see the Pantera
> holding its own. Have our cars recently taken a giant leap in value or
> was this just an auction aberration?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 21:42:32 -0700
> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] [SCPOCA] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally
> Accommodations
> Message-ID: <53F2D5B8.3060004 at asajay.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Stay close enough? Crap, I'd be hoping not get passed by him. ;)
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>
>
>> On 8/18/2014 8:40 PM, John Taphorn wrote:
>> No doubt you will be flinging boogers. But who will be quick enough to
>> stay close enough behind you to get hit by them. You've got a power to
>> weight ratio that only a very few can match. We had that Pantera on the
>> scales once and I think it was about 2400lbs. I think you have over
>> 500hp.
>> Am I in the ballpark?
>> JT
>>
>> On 8/18/2014 8:40 PM, Kirby Schrader [1]kirby.schrader at gmail.com
>> [SCPOCA] wrote:
>>
>>
>> Well, I plan to create plenty of tire boogers...
>>
>> On Aug 18, 2014, at 19:05, John Taphorn [2]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>> [SCPOCA] <[3]SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback. Always room for improvement.
>> The 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally will run on a different schedule than
>> previous years. Registration will open on Friday May 15th with the Car
>> Show that evening. The Event will wrap up Tuesday morning the 19th.
>> The shift in days of the week is to accommodate access to NASA and the
>> Saturday/Sunday track event.
>> The Friday evening Car Show, will enable the track oriented group to
>> attend before their cars get covered in tire boogers. Actually, I
>> don't think tire boogers happens at these tamer track events. However,
>> you get the gist - before they get dirty. Also, we thought it a great
>> way to kick things off getting to know one another and the owners
>> cars. This was how the boys did it at Pocono when I would trek up
>> there and I thought it worked well.
>> The event planners were all curious whether this day shift from the
>> traditional Weds through Sunday schedule would be viewed as easier, the
>> same or more difficult than previous. We generally thought it would be
>> easier for those with jobs and also provide for better flight pricing
>> into Houston Intercontinental Airport (IAH) with a weekend layover.
>> What ya think?
>> JT
>> On 8/18/2014 10:17 AM, michael frazier wrote:
>>
>> Looking forward to it all... Even the contentious staff at the
>> resort! :-)
>> I guess I should work on the Pantera.
>> Michael
>> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:09:12 -0500
>> From: [4]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>> To: [5]DeTomaso at poca.com; [6]SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
>> The POCA 2015 Lone Star Fun Rally raises the bar with the finest resort
>> ever to host a Fun Rally.We are pleased to announce that the Lone Star
>> Fun Rally will feature the La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, located in
>> Montgomery, Texas.
>>
>> The meticulously planned La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, which recently
>> underwent a 130 million expansion and renovation, will provide Rally
>> guests with an unforgettable vacation experience.Guests of this AAA
>> Four-Diamond Texas Resort can expect to find a family friendly,
>> European-inspired lakeside retreat featuring an inspired balance between
>> nature relaxation and world class sophistication.A great destination for
>> the entire family, La Torretta has the spectacular scenery and the shear
>> elegance of a world-class Texas resort.Guests will enjoy the finest
>> amenities while being pampered by a contentious, experienced staff.
>>
>> Recent Fun Rallies have seen the average age of attendees falling,
>> perhaps reflective of De Tomasos changing hands to the next
>> generation.These younger Detomaso owners have begun to bring their
>> families to the event.La Torretta features an exciting program for
>> children ages 5-11, complete with their own private playground, and
>> supervised by the Adventure Pointe's activities staff. Teenagers
>> visiting La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa now have a place to call their
>> very own in The Edge, which features over-stuffed furniture, cool games
>> and the latest in technology, including a WII.The Edge creates a teenage
>> environment that is perfect for hanging out, having fun, or just relaxing.
>>
>> La Torretta accommodations have a charming open floor plan,
>> well-appointed art, plush furnishings, and an eclectic mix of colors and
>> textures. Each suite also features a king bed or two double beds,
>> wireless internet, and a private balcony with sweeping views of Lake Conroe.
>>
>> The Aqua Park is home to La Torretta Lake Resort's multiple pools
>> featuring an elegant heated upper pool with an infinity edge that
>> cascades down into a 6,400 sq. ft. Mediterranean pool. Other pools
>> include the Breeze Buster pool, the Splash Scape pool with an in-water
>> playground, and the Pollywogs pool for the youngest of water lovers. A
>> sandy beach is located on a quiet lake inlet and is ideal for sunning or
>> splashing around in beautiful Lake Conroe.
>>
>> While the Lone Star Fun Rally Agenda will offer plenty of activities to
>> keep you busy, this is Texas, and here you can choose your own path.The
>> Club at La Torretta Golf experience brings together perfectly manicured
>> 18 holes of golf, top golf instruction, and a traditional surrounding of
>> the Golf Club House all in one location, La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa.
>> The course was re-designed by Jeffery D. Blume, Limited in April 2007 to
>> a very challenging and exciting Par 71 course for all skill sets.
>>
>> You and your spouse have access to their 10,000 square foot fitness
>> center featuring cardio, free weights, yoga, Pilates and spin studios --
>> complete with personal trainers, customized classes, racquetball courts
>> and an adjacent tennis center.
>>
>> While you are burning excessive petrol at full throttle along those
>> Texas backroads or at the TWS track, your spouse may enjoy peace of
>> mind, body and soul at SpaTerre, the internationally inspired Spa
>> offering unparalleled comfort and world-class amenities. This 17,000
>> square foot refuge from life's stresses boasts separate men's and
>> women's retreats with relaxation lounges, Zen inspired gardens, shiatsu
>> massage chairs, flotation journeys and outdoor terraces. SpaTerre is
>> also home to a full-service Aveda salon, barber shop and 13 treatment
>> rooms including couples treatment rooms where Global Rituals, Massages
>> and Body Treatments melt our member's cares away.
>>
>> Carbon footprint you ask? Yeah, probably not.Guilty about driving a
>> brutish environmentally less friendly high powered Sports Car?Of course
>> not!But to provide a bit of eco-balance, La Torretta goes to great
>> lengths to make sure everything they do is as eco-friendly as possible.
>> Living in this lovely environment is not a luxury we take lightly. A
>> resort can only be as beautiful as the land it inhabits.
>>
>> Our suite rates at the La Torretta will be $139/ night -- admittedly a
>> little more than recent Fun Rallies.However, this is a great rate for
>> the superior quality, features and services the resort provides.
>> Additional there is a $5/ night resort fee. We have negotiated
>> significant discounts off La Torretta's standard rates.
>>
>>
>> With a variety of unforgettable restaurants and cafes to choose from,
>> you'll have a wide range of options to help satisfy your taste cravings.
>> At Prime you can experience farm fresh, New American Cuisine in this
>> casually elegant and relaxing waterfront restaurant. At Energie-High
>> Energy Sports Bar, come listen to music, watch sports games or simply
>> enjoy great conversation with friends. Essence Cafe-Spa dining features
>> all healthy foods. At Mokka Cafe-Coffee Bar and Bakery, guests can enjoy
>> perfectly prepared delights. At the Yoi Sushi Bar-Elegant Sushi Bar a
>> well-trained team is committed to sourcing the best, freshest fish
>> available. Other La Torretta amenities include:
>>
>> .Indoor Pool
>>
>> .Outdoor Pools
>>
>> .Wireless Internet Access Avail
>>
>> .Free Wifi
>>
>> .Dining On Site
>>
>> .Golf Course On Site
>>
>> .Fitness Room
>>
>> .Tennis Court
>>
>> .Business Center
>>
>> .High-Speed Internet Access
>>
>> .Hot Tub / Jacuzzi
>>
>> .Spa
>>
>> .Free Parking
>>
>> The Fun Rally Committee hopes that you will join us at the La Torretta
>> Resort.Long time Fun Rally participants understand that the event's
>> financial success is incumbent on us meeting room targets at the
>> resort.Achieving these goals, provides us the hospitality suite, bar and
>> banquet discounts that we are able to pass on to the registrants through
>> lower fees.We believe the 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally, when considered
>> as a complete package, is a great value.While our Event Agenda is still
>> taking shape, this year's planned activities include a NASA tour, the
>> pig roast, a car museum visit, a tour of a renown tuner shop, access to
>> the Bush Presidential library, TWS Speedway, car shows, and a Texas
>> historical visit. The more people who participate and DeTomaso cars in
>> attendance, the more enjoyable the experience for everyone.We hope to
>> see you there.
>>
>> When you are ready to make your La Torretta reservation, contact the
>> resort at 1.877.784.6835. Remember to let them know that you are with
>> "The Pantera Owners Club of America" to get your discount rates.
>>
>> For mapping purposes, the LaTorretta Lake Resort and Spa is located at
>> 600 La Torretta Boulevard, Montgomery TX 77356 United States.
>>
>> Their website is [7]http://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed
>> by POCA DeTomaso mailing
>> list [8]DeTomaso at poca.com[9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_p
>> oca.com
>>
>> __._,_.___
>> __________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Posted by: Kirby Schrader [10]<kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
>> __________________________________________________________________
>>
>> [11]Reply via web post o [12]Reply to sender o [13]Reply to group o
>> [14]Start a New Topic o [15]Messages in this topic (3)
>> [16]Visit Your Group
>>
>> [17]Yahoo! Groups
>> o [18]Privacy o [19]Unsubscribe o [20]Terms of Use
>> .
>>
>> [stime=1408412454]
>> [fpc.pl?ywarid=515FB27823A7407E&a=10001310322279&js=no&r
>> esp=img]
>>
>> __,_._,___
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com
>> 2. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>> 3. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
>> 4. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 6. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
>> 7. http://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
>> 8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 10. mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com
>> 11. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/messages/16841;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcmpnOThpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BG1zZ0lkAzE2ODQxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxMjQ1NA--?act=reply&messageNum=16841
>> 12. mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BSCPOCA%5D%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%202015%20POCA%20Lone%20Star%20Fun%20Rally%20Accommodations
>> 13. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BSCPOCA%5D%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%202015%20POCA%20Lone%20Star%20Fun%20Rally%20Accommodations
>> 14. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYTd2ZGNpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxMjQ1NA--
>> 15. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/topics/16837;_ylc=X3oDMTM2ZmsxcWZyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BG1zZ0lkAzE2ODQxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxMjQ1NAR0cGNJZAMxNjgzNw--
>> 16. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlanBwdmYzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxMjQ1NA--
>> 17. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM2lwc2MyBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDA4NDEyNDU0
>> 18. https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html
>> 19. mailto:SCPOCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
>> 20. https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4745 / Virus Database: 4007/8041 - Release Date: 08/15/14
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 00:45:22 -0400
> From: Mark Charlton <pantera01826 at rogers.com>
> To: Mike Scardina <a42n8cfo at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Monterey auction results
> Message-ID: <CF315B54-C6D9-4988-AF51-A7442462E388 at rogers.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> That particular car was a 3000 mile ?time warp? car. Very little done or modified since new, and the seller rightly wanted/expected top dollar for what must certainly be the lowest-mileage GTS anywhere. Plus it?s in what I consider to be one of the nicest colors for a GTS.
>
> Whether all Panteras have taken a giant leap, I can?t say, but I do see them creeping ever higher.
>
> Mark Charlton
> pantera01826 at rogers.com
>
>
>
>> On Aug 19, 2014, at 12:20 AM, Mike Scardina via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>
>> Did anyone here attend the Mecum auction in Monterey and see the 1974
>> GTS Pantera in person? It was described as follows:
>> "To this day it remains virtually untouched and beautifully preserved,
>> including the original tools, space-saver spare and inflation canister.
>> As one of the best of its kind in the world it has enormous value as a
>> reference car for restorations and would be a premium addition to any
>> collection of world-class sports cars."
>> From the photos it clearly had replacement mirrors and the black hood
>> and deck lid appeared to be gloss black instead of the proper charcoal
>> metal flake.... hardly a proper reference car for restorations.
>> The auction estimate was $150.000 - $175,000, but the $120,000 bid
>> seemed to me to be all the money. Yet, I'm happy to see the Pantera
>> holding its own. Have our cars recently taken a giant leap in value or
>> was this just an auction aberration?
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 21:52:19 -0700
> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Monterey auction results
> Message-ID: <53F2D803.20609 at asajay.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I used to be a member of a local Mustang club that had the honor of
> pushing cars for Mitch Silver of Silver's Collector Car Auction locally
> in Eastern Washington and Northern Idaho. He did a few at Hot August
> Nights in Reno as well but we never worked those auctions.
>
> Being in the Mustang club we had plenty of members who -knew- concours
> original quality stuff. Every now and then we'd find an example like
> this Pantera. Not strictly stock but looked the part; described as
> totally stock, unmolested, all original, etc. We could pick it apart
> from 50 feet, yet it was those kinds of descriptions that would boost
> the selling price of a car; it nearly never failed (sometimes it did,
> but rarely).
>
> Being pretty much an as-is auction, it doesn't matter if the buyer later
> finds out it's not all it was described to be, especially in the
> originality department. They buyer is usually someone who doesn't know
> the brand like we do; someone who saw one as a kid and has always wanted
> one and can now afford one... hoping his or her mechanic will be up to
> the task of fixing it. They know nothing of original details, only that
> it's the car they have to have because it was described as "the one"
> they were dreaming of.
>
> I sometimes wonder if those buyers ever really realize they sort of got
> suckered? Not in a big way mind you, and they probably recover.
>
> Still, any way you want to look at it, the large prices paid for the
> cars usually only helps the rest of the market, until the next
> downturn. I read recently that the classic car market might have
> peaked, but then you see an old Ferrari sell for millions. Who knows
> when it will really peak?
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>
>
>> On 8/18/2014 9:20 PM, Mike Scardina via DeTomaso wrote:
>> Did anyone here attend the Mecum auction in Monterey and see the 1974
>> GTS Pantera in person? It was described as follows:
>> "To this day it remains virtually untouched and beautifully preserved,
>> including the original tools, space-saver spare and inflation canister.
>> As one of the best of its kind in the world it has enormous value as a
>> reference car for restorations and would be a premium addition to any
>> collection of world-class sports cars."
>> From the photos it clearly had replacement mirrors and the black hood
>> and deck lid appeared to be gloss black instead of the proper charcoal
>> metal flake.... hardly a proper reference car for restorations.
>> The auction estimate was $150.000 - $175,000, but the $120,000 bid
>> seemed to me to be all the money. Yet, I'm happy to see the Pantera
>> holding its own. Have our cars recently taken a giant leap in value or
>> was this just an auction aberration?
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> -----
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>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 05:39:02 -0500
> From: Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
> To: Space City Panteras <SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] [SCPOCA] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally
> Accommodations
> Message-ID: <44B8D3D4-ED78-435D-B6BB-076B87318B9C at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Mr. Upton will be out there in front.
>
> Gray and Quella said the motor in it now dyno?d at 705.
>
> 2400 lbs? I?m surprised if it is that low.
> I?ll need to confirm that on Tom?s corner weight scales.
>
> Kirby
>
>> On Aug 18, 2014, at 22:40, John Taphorn jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com [SCPOCA] <SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> No doubt you will be flinging boogers. But who will be quick enough to stay close enough behind you to get hit by them. You've got a power to weight ratio that only a very few can match. We had that Pantera on the scales once and I think it was about 2400lbs. I think you have over 500hp.
>>
>> Am I in the ballpark?
>>
>> JT
>>
>>
>>> On 8/18/2014 8:40 PM, Kirby Schrader kirby.schrader at gmail.com [SCPOCA] wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I plan to create plenty of tire boogers?
>>>
>>>> On Aug 18, 2014, at 19:05, John Taphorn jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com [SCPOCA] <SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the feedback. Always room for improvement.
>>>>
>>>> The 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally will run on a different schedule than previous years. Registration will open on Friday May 15th with the Car Show that evening. The Event will wrap up Tuesday morning the 19th. The shift in days of the week is to accommodate access to NASA and the Saturday/Sunday track event.
>>>>
>>>> The Friday evening Car Show, will enable the track oriented group to attend before their cars get covered in tire boogers. Actually, I don't think tire boogers happens at these tamer track events. However, you get the gist - before they get dirty. Also, we thought it a great way to kick things off getting to know one another and the owners cars. This was how the boys did it at Pocono when I would trek up there and I thought it worked well.
>>>>
>>>> The event planners were all curious whether this day shift from the traditional Weds through Sunday schedule would be viewed as easier, the same or more difficult than previous. We generally thought it would be easier for those with jobs and also provide for better flight pricing into Houston Intercontinental Airport (IAH) with a weekend layover.
>>>>
>>>> What ya think?
>>>>
>>>> JT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/18/2014 10:17 AM, michael frazier wrote:
>>>>> Looking forward to it all... Even the contentious staff at the resort! :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess I should work on the Pantera.
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael
>>>>>
>>>>> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:09:12 -0500
>>>>> From: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>>>>> To: DeTomaso at poca.com; SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
>>>>>
>>>>> The POCA 2015 Lone Star Fun Rally raises the bar with the finest resort
>>>>> ever to host a Fun Rally.We are pleased to announce that the Lone Star
>>>>> Fun Rally will feature the La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, located in
>>>>> Montgomery, Texas.
>>>>>
>>>>> The meticulously planned La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, which recently
>>>>> underwent a 130 million expansion and renovation, will provide Rally
>>>>> guests with an unforgettable vacation experience.Guests of this AAA
>>>>> Four-Diamond Texas Resort can expect to find a family friendly,
>>>>> European-inspired lakeside retreat featuring an inspired balance between
>>>>> nature relaxation and world class sophistication.A great destination for
>>>>> the entire family, La Torretta has the spectacular scenery and the shear
>>>>> elegance of a world-class Texas resort.Guests will enjoy the finest
>>>>> amenities while being pampered by a contentious, experienced staff.
>>>>>
>>>>> Recent Fun Rallies have seen the average age of attendees falling,
>>>>> perhaps reflective of De Tomasos changing hands to the next
>>>>> generation.These younger Detomaso owners have begun to bring their
>>>>> families to the event.La Torretta features an exciting program for
>>>>> children ages 5-11, complete with their own private playground, and
>>>>> supervised by the Adventure Pointe's activities staff. Teenagers
>>>>> visiting La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa now have a place to call their
>>>>> very own in The Edge, which features over-stuffed furniture, cool games
>>>>> and the latest in technology, including a WII.The Edge creates a teenage
>>>>> environment that is perfect for hanging out, having fun, or just relaxing.
>>>>>
>>>>> La Torretta accommodations have a charming open floor plan,
>>>>> well-appointed art, plush furnishings, and an eclectic mix of colors and
>>>>> textures. Each suite also features a king bed or two double beds,
>>>>> wireless internet, and a private balcony with sweeping views of Lake Conroe.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Aqua Park is home to La Torretta Lake Resort's multiple pools
>>>>> featuring an elegant heated upper pool with an infinity edge that
>>>>> cascades down into a 6,400 sq. ft. Mediterranean pool. Other pools
>>>>> include the Breeze Buster pool, the Splash Scape pool with an in-water
>>>>> playground, and the Pollywogs pool for the youngest of water lovers. A
>>>>> sandy beach is located on a quiet lake inlet and is ideal for sunning or
>>>>> splashing around in beautiful Lake Conroe.
>>>>>
>>>>> While the Lone Star Fun Rally Agenda will offer plenty of activities to
>>>>> keep you busy, this is Texas, and here you can choose your own path.The
>>>>> Club at La Torretta Golf experience brings together perfectly manicured
>>>>> 18 holes of golf, top golf instruction, and a traditional surrounding of
>>>>> the Golf Club House all in one location, La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa.
>>>>> The course was re-designed by Jeffery D. Blume, Limited in April 2007 to
>>>>> a very challenging and exciting Par 71 course for all skill sets.
>>>>>
>>>>> You and your spouse have access to their 10,000 square foot fitness
>>>>> center featuring cardio, free weights, yoga, Pilates and spin studios --
>>>>> complete with personal trainers, customized classes, racquetball courts
>>>>> and an adjacent tennis center.
>>>>>
>>>>> While you are burning excessive petrol at full throttle along those
>>>>> Texas backroads or at the TWS track, your spouse may enjoy peace of
>>>>> mind, body and soul at SpaTerre, the internationally inspired Spa
>>>>> offering unparalleled comfort and world-class amenities. This 17,000
>>>>> square foot refuge from life's stresses boasts separate men's and
>>>>> women's retreats with relaxation lounges, Zen inspired gardens, shiatsu
>>>>> massage chairs, flotation journeys and outdoor terraces. SpaTerre is
>>>>> also home to a full-service Aveda salon, barber shop and 13 treatment
>>>>> rooms including couples treatment rooms where Global Rituals, Massages
>>>>> and Body Treatments melt our member's cares away.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carbon footprint you ask? Yeah, probably not.Guilty about driving a
>>>>> brutish environmentally less friendly high powered Sports Car?Of course
>>>>> not!But to provide a bit of eco-balance, La Torretta goes to great
>>>>> lengths to make sure everything they do is as eco-friendly as possible.
>>>>> Living in this lovely environment is not a luxury we take lightly. A
>>>>> resort can only be as beautiful as the land it inhabits.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our suite rates at the La Torretta will be $139/ night -- admittedly a
>>>>> little more than recent Fun Rallies.However, this is a great rate for
>>>>> the superior quality, features and services the resort provides.
>>>>> Additional there is a $5/ night resort fee. We have negotiated
>>>>> significant discounts off La Torretta's standard rates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> With a variety of unforgettable restaurants and cafes to choose from,
>>>>> you'll have a wide range of options to help satisfy your taste cravings.
>>>>> At Prime you can experience farm fresh, New American Cuisine in this
>>>>> casually elegant and relaxing waterfront restaurant. At Energie-High
>>>>> Energy Sports Bar, come listen to music, watch sports games or simply
>>>>> enjoy great conversation with friends. Essence Cafe-Spa dining features
>>>>> all healthy foods. At Mokka Cafe-Coffee Bar and Bakery, guests can enjoy
>>>>> perfectly prepared delights. At the Yoi Sushi Bar-Elegant Sushi Bar a
>>>>> well-trained team is committed to sourcing the best, freshest fish
>>>>> available. Other La Torretta amenities include:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Indoor Pool
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Outdoor Pools
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Wireless Internet Access Avail
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Free Wifi
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Dining On Site
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Golf Course On Site
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Fitness Room
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Tennis Court
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Business Center
>>>>>
>>>>> ?High-Speed Internet Access
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Hot Tub / Jacuzzi
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Spa
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Free Parking
>>>>>
>>>>> The Fun Rally Committee hopes that you will join us at the La Torretta
>>>>> Resort.Long time Fun Rally participants understand that the event's
>>>>> financial success is incumbent on us meeting room targets at the
>>>>> resort.Achieving these goals, provides us the hospitality suite, bar and
>>>>> banquet discounts that we are able to pass on to the registrants through
>>>>> lower fees.We believe the 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally, when considered
>>>>> as a complete package, is a great value.While our Event Agenda is still
>>>>> taking shape, this year's planned activities include a NASA tour, the
>>>>> pig roast, a car museum visit, a tour of a renown tuner shop, access to
>>>>> the Bush Presidential library, TWS Speedway, car shows, and a Texas
>>>>> historical visit. The more people who participate and DeTomaso cars in
>>>>> attendance, the more enjoyable the experience for everyone.We hope to
>>>>> see you there.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you are ready to make your La Torretta reservation, contact the
>>>>> resort at 1.877.784.6835. Remember to let them know that you are with
>>>>> "The Pantera Owners Club of America" to get your discount rates.
>>>>>
>>>>> For mapping purposes, the LaTorretta Lake Resort and Spa is located at
>>>>> 600 La Torretta Boulevard, Montgomery TX 77356 United States.
>>>>>
>>>>> Their website is http://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.comhttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> __._,_.___
>> Posted by: John Taphorn <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
>> Reply via web post ? Reply to sender ? Reply to group ? Start a New Topic ? Messages in this topic (4)
>> VISIT YOUR GROUP
>> ? Privacy ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>> __,_._,___
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Mr. Upton will be out there in front.
>
> Gray and Quella said the motor in it now dyno'd at 705.
> 2400 lbs? I'm surprised if it is that low.
> I'll need to confirm that on Tom's corner weight scales.
> Kirby
>
> On Aug 18, 2014, at 22:40, John Taphorn [1]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> [SCPOCA] <[2]SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> No doubt you will be flinging boogers. But who will be quick enough to
> stay close enough behind you to get hit by them. You've got a power to
> weight ratio that only a very few can match. We had that Pantera on the
> scales once and I think it was about 2400lbs. I think you have over
> 500hp.
> Am I in the ballpark?
> JT
> On 8/18/2014 8:40 PM, Kirby
> Schrader [3]kirby.schrader at gmail.com [SCPOCA] wrote:
>
>
> Well, I plan to create plenty of tire boogers...
>
> On Aug 18, 2014, at 19:05, John
> Taphorn [4]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com [SCPOCA]
> <[5]SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the feedback. Always room for improvement.
> The 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally will run on a different schedule than
> previous years. Registration will open on Friday May 15th with the Car
> Show that evening. The Event will wrap up Tuesday morning the 19th.
> The shift in days of the week is to accommodate access to NASA and the
> Saturday/Sunday track event.
> The Friday evening Car Show, will enable the track oriented group to
> attend before their cars get covered in tire boogers. Actually, I
> don't think tire boogers happens at these tamer track events. However,
> you get the gist - before they get dirty. Also, we thought it a great
> way to kick things off getting to know one another and the owners
> cars. This was how the boys did it at Pocono when I would trek up
> there and I thought it worked well.
> The event planners were all curious whether this day shift from the
> traditional Weds through Sunday schedule would be viewed as easier, the
> same or more difficult than previous. We generally thought it would be
> easier for those with jobs and also provide for better flight pricing
> into Houston Intercontinental Airport (IAH) with a weekend layover.
> What ya think?
> JT
> On 8/18/2014 10:17 AM, michael frazier wrote:
>
> Looking forward to it all... Even the contentious staff at the
> resort! :-)
> I guess I should work on the Pantera.
> Michael
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:09:12 -0500
> From: [6]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> To: [7]DeTomaso at poca.com; [8]SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally Accommodations
> The POCA 2015 Lone Star Fun Rally raises the bar with the finest resort
> ever to host a Fun Rally.We are pleased to announce that the Lone Star
> Fun Rally will feature the La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, located in
> Montgomery, Texas.
>
> The meticulously planned La Torretta Lake Resort and Spa, which recently
> underwent a 130 million expansion and renovation, will provide Rally
> guests with an unforgettable vacation experience.Guests of this AAA
> Four-Diamond Texas Resort can expect to find a family friendly,
> European-inspired lakeside retreat featuring an inspired balance between
> nature relaxation and world class sophistication.A great destination for
> the entire family, La Torretta has the spectacular scenery and the shear
> elegance of a world-class Texas resort.Guests will enjoy the finest
> amenities while being pampered by a contentious, experienced staff.
>
> Recent Fun Rallies have seen the average age of attendees falling,
> perhaps reflective of De Tomasos changing hands to the next
> generation.These younger Detomaso owners have begun to bring their
> families to the event.La Torretta features an exciting program for
> children ages 5-11, complete with their own private playground, and
> supervised by the Adventure Pointe's activities staff. Teenagers
> visiting La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa now have a place to call their
> very own in The Edge, which features over-stuffed furniture, cool games
> and the latest in technology, including a WII.The Edge creates a teenage
> environment that is perfect for hanging out, having fun, or just relaxing.
>
> La Torretta accommodations have a charming open floor plan,
> well-appointed art, plush furnishings, and an eclectic mix of colors and
> textures. Each suite also features a king bed or two double beds,
> wireless internet, and a private balcony with sweeping views of Lake Conroe.
>
> The Aqua Park is home to La Torretta Lake Resort's multiple pools
> featuring an elegant heated upper pool with an infinity edge that
> cascades down into a 6,400 sq. ft. Mediterranean pool. Other pools
> include the Breeze Buster pool, the Splash Scape pool with an in-water
> playground, and the Pollywogs pool for the youngest of water lovers. A
> sandy beach is located on a quiet lake inlet and is ideal for sunning or
> splashing around in beautiful Lake Conroe.
>
> While the Lone Star Fun Rally Agenda will offer plenty of activities to
> keep you busy, this is Texas, and here you can choose your own path.The
> Club at La Torretta Golf experience brings together perfectly manicured
> 18 holes of golf, top golf instruction, and a traditional surrounding of
> the Golf Club House all in one location, La Torretta Lake Resort & Spa.
> The course was re-designed by Jeffery D. Blume, Limited in April 2007 to
> a very challenging and exciting Par 71 course for all skill sets.
>
> You and your spouse have access to their 10,000 square foot fitness
> center featuring cardio, free weights, yoga, Pilates and spin studios --
> complete with personal trainers, customized classes, racquetball courts
> and an adjacent tennis center.
>
> While you are burning excessive petrol at full throttle along those
> Texas backroads or at the TWS track, your spouse may enjoy peace of
> mind, body and soul at SpaTerre, the internationally inspired Spa
> offering unparalleled comfort and world-class amenities. This 17,000
> square foot refuge from life's stresses boasts separate men's and
> women's retreats with relaxation lounges, Zen inspired gardens, shiatsu
> massage chairs, flotation journeys and outdoor terraces. SpaTerre is
> also home to a full-service Aveda salon, barber shop and 13 treatment
> rooms including couples treatment rooms where Global Rituals, Massages
> and Body Treatments melt our member's cares away.
>
> Carbon footprint you ask? Yeah, probably not.Guilty about driving a
> brutish environmentally less friendly high powered Sports Car?Of course
> not!But to provide a bit of eco-balance, La Torretta goes to great
> lengths to make sure everything they do is as eco-friendly as possible.
> Living in this lovely environment is not a luxury we take lightly. A
> resort can only be as beautiful as the land it inhabits.
>
> Our suite rates at the La Torretta will be $139/ night -- admittedly a
> little more than recent Fun Rallies.However, this is a great rate for
> the superior quality, features and services the resort provides.
> Additional there is a $5/ night resort fee. We have negotiated
> significant discounts off La Torretta's standard rates.
>
>
> With a variety of unforgettable restaurants and cafes to choose from,
> you'll have a wide range of options to help satisfy your taste cravings.
> At Prime you can experience farm fresh, New American Cuisine in this
> casually elegant and relaxing waterfront restaurant. At Energie-High
> Energy Sports Bar, come listen to music, watch sports games or simply
> enjoy great conversation with friends. Essence Cafe-Spa dining features
> all healthy foods. At Mokka Cafe-Coffee Bar and Bakery, guests can enjoy
> perfectly prepared delights. At the Yoi Sushi Bar-Elegant Sushi Bar a
> well-trained team is committed to sourcing the best, freshest fish
> available. Other La Torretta amenities include:
>
> .Indoor Pool
>
> .Outdoor Pools
>
> .Wireless Internet Access Avail
>
> .Free Wifi
>
> .Dining On Site
>
> .Golf Course On Site
>
> .Fitness Room
>
> .Tennis Court
>
> .Business Center
>
> .High-Speed Internet Access
>
> .Hot Tub / Jacuzzi
>
> .Spa
>
> .Free Parking
>
> The Fun Rally Committee hopes that you will join us at the La Torretta
> Resort.Long time Fun Rally participants understand that the event's
> financial success is incumbent on us meeting room targets at the
> resort.Achieving these goals, provides us the hospitality suite, bar and
> banquet discounts that we are able to pass on to the registrants through
> lower fees.We believe the 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally, when considered
> as a complete package, is a great value.While our Event Agenda is still
> taking shape, this year's planned activities include a NASA tour, the
> pig roast, a car museum visit, a tour of a renown tuner shop, access to
> the Bush Presidential library, TWS Speedway, car shows, and a Texas
> historical visit. The more people who participate and DeTomaso cars in
> attendance, the more enjoyable the experience for everyone.We hope to
> see you there.
>
> When you are ready to make your La Torretta reservation, contact the
> resort at 1.877.784.6835. Remember to let them know that you are with
> "The Pantera Owners Club of America" to get your discount rates.
>
> For mapping purposes, the LaTorretta Lake Resort and Spa is located at
> 600 La Torretta Boulevard, Montgomery TX 77356 United States.
>
> Their website is [9]http://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed
> by POCA DeTomaso mailing
> list [10]DeTomaso at poca.com[11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _poca.com
>
> __._,_.___
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> Posted by: John Taphorn <[12]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> [13]Reply via web post o [14]Reply to sender o [15]Reply to group o
> [16]Start a New Topic o [17]Messages in this topic (4)
> [18]VISIT YOUR GROUP
>
> [19]Yahoo! Groups
> o [20]Privacy o [21]Unsubscribe o [22]Terms of Use
> .
> [stime=1408419646]
> [fpc.pl?ywarid=515FB27823A7407E&a=10001310322279&js=no&resp
> =img]
> __,_._,___
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> 2. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
> 3. mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com
> 4. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> 5. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
> 6. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 8. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com
> 9. http://www.latorrettalakeresort.com/
> 10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 12. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> 13. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/messages/16842;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbjd1NjZkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BG1zZ0lkAzE2ODQyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxOTY0Ng--?act=reply&messageNum=16842
> 14. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BSCPOCA%5D%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%202015%20POCA%20Lone%20Star%20Fun%20Rally%20Accommodations
> 15. mailto:SCPOCA at yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BSCPOCA%5D%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%202015%20POCA%20Lone%20Star%20Fun%20Rally%20Accommodations
> 16. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMG9nZG5kBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxOTY0Ng--
> 17. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/conversations/topics/16837;_ylc=X3oDMTM2aHF1YzhwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BG1zZ0lkAzE2ODQyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxOTY0NgR0cGNJZAMxNjgzNw--
> 18. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCPOCA/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYXUyOG45BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQwODQxOTY0Ng--
> 19. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYWJvYTdiBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIyMjMyNjUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY0ODI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDA4NDE5NjQ2
> 20. https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html
> 21. mailto:SCPOCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
> 22. https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 02:09:47 -1000
> From: "Robert Stroj" <npdrs at maui.net>
> To: "'Boyd Casey'" <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
> Message-ID: <037201cfbba6$78fe9830$6afbc890$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> So, I will be definitely rebuilding my engine??after first harder drive (only about 30-40 min of fast street driving) my oil got FULL of water; by extra height on the stick and what was missing in the water tank I estimate about 2littres!
>
> I pushed the car a bit, but never went over 6K rpm, never overheated; it seems to me as if my car was never really driven hard; it is really strange with all performance parts bolted on that it would blow like this on first real drive.
>
> Before that I installed mechanical oil pressure gauge to make sure my oil pressure was good and it was fine; about 50psi cold and down to about 30psi when hot on idle.
>
>
>
> So, now I was lucky to get to know American engine specialist in Munich (he was even successful in the past driving Camaro?s in German DTM) who will be rebuilding the engine.
>
> He has build lots of Chevy?s and Ford?s but is not really a 351C specialist.
>
>
>
> First, we will need to find out where the water went; hopefully is a head gasket and not a crack in a block or head?
>
>
>
> What I will now be looking for is advise on best build spec trying to use as many of components that I already got.
>
> Inspired on Dan Johns engines I was thinking to go ahead with SCAT 408 stroker kit; here I found engine with similar heads I got (I have 3V version and CHI hi-rise intake): http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5650045562/m/994102665
>
> My CHI heads ware purchased trough PIM, so I believe this is the spec:
>
> http://www.pim.net/3vart1113.jpg
> Our special heads are made of
> http://www.pim.net/3valumart.jpg
> Keep the 351C platform and avoid the 351W change out.
> With the below specifications, why bother?
>
>
> We are pleased to present these awesome heads. Please review our test results. They speak for themselves. You have to experience these heads to realize what we have unleashed on the Pantera world.
>
> Test Notes:
> Intake port volume: 213 cc's Intake valve: 2.190 Exhaust: 1.710
> Chamber: 60 cc's. Test performed at 28 inches of H20 at 16 degrees c.
>
>
>
>
> Intake Lift
>
> %
>
> Range
>
> CFM
>
> HP
>
> Exhaust Lift
>
> %
>
> Range
>
> CFM
>
>
> .050"
>
> 0
>
> 391
>
> 0.0
>
> 0.0
>
> .050"
>
>
>
> 381
>
> 0.0
>
>
> .100"
>
> 0
>
> 391
>
> 0.0
>
> 0.0
>
> .100"
>
> 0
>
> 381
>
> 0.0
>
>
> .150"
>
> 0
>
> 391
>
> 0.0
>
> 0.0
>
> .150"
>
> 0
>
> 381
>
> 0.0
>
>
> .200
>
> 0.382
>
> 391
>
> 149.4
>
> 307.7
>
> .200"
>
> 0.268
>
> 381
>
> 102.1
>
>
> .250"
>
> 0
>
> 391
>
> 0.0
>
> 0.0
>
> .250"
>
> 0
>
> 381
>
> 0.0
>
>
> .300"
>
> 0.536
>
> 391
>
> 209.6
>
> 431.7
>
> .300"
>
> 0.359
>
> 381
>
> 136.8
>
>
> .350"
>
> 0
>
> 391
>
> 0.0
>
> 0.0
>
> .350"
>
> 0
>
> 381
>
> 0.0
>
>
> .400"
>
> 0.658
>
> 391
>
> 257.3
>
> 530
>
> .400"
>
> 0.425
>
> 381
>
> 161.9
>
>
> .450"
>
> 0.721
>
> 391
>
> 281.9
>
> 580.7
>
> .450"
>
> 0.462
>
> 381
>
> 176.0
>
>
> .500"
>
> 0.763
>
> 391
>
> 298.3
>
> 614.6
>
> .500"
>
> 0.487
>
> 381
>
> 185.5
>
>
> .550"
>
> 0.79
>
> 391
>
> 308.9
>
> 636.3
>
> .550"
>
> 0.513
>
> 381
>
> 195.5
>
>
> .600"
>
> 0.81
>
> 391
>
> 316.7
>
> 652.4
>
> .600"
>
> 0.534
>
> 381
>
> 203.5
>
>
> .650"
>
> 0.822
>
> 391
>
> 321.4
>
> 662.1
>
> .650"
>
> 0.562
>
> 381
>
> 214.1
>
>
> .700"
>
> 0
>
> 391
>
> 0
>
> 0
>
> .700"
>
> 0.581
>
> 381
>
> 221.4
>
>
>
>
>
> Based on this info I would really appreciate any suggestions on configuration and especially on cam?s that would work best.
>
> Seems mostly everyone is going with hydraulic roller setup and max. lift around 0.50; my engine builder was skeptic about 0.50 lift suspecting it would be too extreme for durability of the valve train?
>
>
>
> Target is to get the most out of the motor between 4K and 6K and it would be mostly used on the road with occasional track day; with European highways it would be important to be able to sustain longer high speed driving.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Robert
>
>
>
> From: Boyd Casey [mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 9:04 AM
> To: Robert Stroj
> Cc: John Taphorn; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>
>
>
> Robert first things first. If I we're in your shoes I would seek out some professional help. A person with access to Dynomation software
>
> (or similar software ) can tell you approximately what kind of HP and torque your engine should be producing with it's current build. Try "Clevelands forever or clevelands .net you can find them on Google. By entering your Cam grind your piston type, your heads , valve sizes , bore stroke etc. they can tell you what type of HP and torque you should be getting. Next or maybe first you need to check that your valves are adjusted properly ( since you have solid lifters, I already suggested you check the compression of your cylinders to see that all eight match or are close. Check the timing, check the plugs. It may be something relatively simple or several things.So find out what you engine should be making, then check that everything is in order. It's like navigating. You have to know where you are in order to be able to figure out how to get to where you want to go! Once you know what your engine should do and you check all the basic systems you will have a clue as to whats wrong. Or you could just take it o a good shop and throw money at the problem. But I think the first step is to find out what kind of build you actually have. I recently read that 90% of clevelands were not built to high performance standards .
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Boyd
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Robert Stroj <npdrs at maui.net> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> Thanks a lot for comments on the gearbox.
>
> Will firs start by making sure lever is centered and then and trunion
> bearing is tight, if necessary follow with checking the mentioned
> spring.
>
>
> Best, Robert
>
>
> From: John Taphorn [mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 4:15 PM
> To: Robert Stroj; detomaso at poca.com
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>
>
>
> Regarding your ZF slipping out of third. I've rebuilt several of these
> boxes and can offer a little insight.
> First - Check to ensure the trunion bearing is tightly in place.
> Second - Ensure that when in neutral the shift shaft is dead center
> north and south in the gate. If not adjust so it is centered.
> Thirdly - Do you know if the rear plate of the ZF has been removed or
> the ZF rebuilt? On my first ZF rebuild, I improperly installed the
> spring for the 3rd gear shifter pad. I installed it out of order and
> the spring was compromised not allowing full pressure on the detent.
> It is a small spring, yet when not properly tensioned allows the third
> gear shifter shaft to slide out of place. I encountered the same
> problem that you are experiencing. It was easy to hold in place with
> my hand resting against the shifter in third gear.
> It was not a difficult fix and the part is inexpensive; yet, required
> removal of the ZF and minor dis assembly of the ZF.
> I hope it is one or two.
> JT
>
> On 7/1/2014 10:05 AM, Robert Stroj wrote:
>
>
> So, finally, my '71 Pantera got through all the import procedures and is now
> street legal in Europe/Germany!
> Car is in very good shape, zero rust anywhere, suspension feels very good to
> drive (height adjustable koni set), brakes work well (wilwood conversion),
> but there is something not right with the motor.
> Engine is a older 351C rebuild using original crankshaft and pistons. Some
> years later it was fitted with CHI 3V heads and intake system, SS valves,
> 780 Holley and GTS exhaust system.
> When driving the cart was pulling well, but definitely was not feeling as
> 400-500HP car; this is what I was sort of expecting after talking to person
> who rebuild the engine as well as previous owner...it did not really feel as
> 300HP car...
> I had a chance to put it on the dyno at the friend's garage and got the
> following graph (please see the attached image); this are graphs for
> adjusted power on the flywheel after recalculating looses between engine and
> wheels.
> What was really interesting is that he had a chance to test 2 other panteras
> recently; one was a client that had rebuilt engine using some "special
> parts", bt I am not sure of the actual spec while the other one was black
> GR4 replica that is currently listed for sale in Germany and was built by
> Braun Motorsport:
>
> [1]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass <http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strassenzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT>
> enzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&
> __lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCEND
> ING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&m
> akeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=f
> alse&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT
>
> So, finally, my engine did not even reach 250HP, another rebuild pantera
> motor did just over 300HP while Braun pantera did very nice 389HP; there is
> also Ford GT40 with racing motor in there; it did 410hp but at much higher
> RPM.
> The most impressive about the Braun car is how smooth the power curve is.
>
> So, now I am wondering where to go from here; could it be that it is as
> simple as wrong cam choice?
> If going to do a rebuild is there a good configuration someone could suggest
> that would use CHI3V heads and intake, as I already got those?
>
> As well, I had something strange happen twice with the gearbox; it got out
> of the 3rd gear by itself; would someone know if this could be due to any
> wrong linkage adjustment?
>
> Thanks, Robert
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Hi,
>
>
> So, I will be definitely rebuilding my engine......after first harder
> drive (only about 30-40 min of fast street driving) my oil got FULL of
> water; by extra height on the stick and what was missing in the water
> tank I estimate about 2littres!
>
> I pushed the car a bit, but never went over 6K rpm, never overheated;
> it seems to me as if my car was never really driven hard; it is really
> strange with all performance parts bolted on that it would blow like
> this on first real drive.
>
> Before that I installed mechanical oil pressure gauge to make sure my
> oil pressure was good and it was fine; about 50psi cold and down to
> about 30psi when hot on idle.
>
>
> So, now I was lucky to get to know American engine specialist in Munich
> (he was even successful in the past driving Camaro's in German DTM) who
> will be rebuilding the engine.
>
> He has build lots of Chevy's and Ford's but is not really a 351C
> specialist.
>
>
> First, we will need to find out where the water went; hopefully is a
> head gasket and not a crack in a block or head...
>
>
> What I will now be looking for is advise on best build spec trying to
> use as many of components that I already got.
>
> Inspired on Dan Johns engines I was thinking to go ahead with SCAT 408
> stroker kit; here I found engine with similar heads I got (I have 3V
> version and CHI hi-rise intake):
> [1]http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5650045562/m/994102665
>
> My CHI heads ware purchased trough PIM, so I believe this is the spec:
>
> http://www.pim.net/3vart1113.jpg
> Our special heads are made of
> http://www.pim.net/3valumart.jpg
> Keep the 351C platform and avoid the 351W change out.
> With the below specifications, why bother?
>
> We are pleased to present these awesome heads. Please review our test
> results. They speak for themselves. You have to experience these heads
> to realize what we have unleashed on the Pantera world.
> Test Notes:
> Intake port volume: 213 cc's Intake valve: 2.190 Exhaust: 1.710
> Chamber: 60 cc's. Test performed at 28 inches of H20 at 16 degrees c.
>
>
> Intake Lift
>
> %
>
> Range
>
> CFM
>
> HP
>
> Exhaust Lift
>
> %
>
> Range
>
> CFM
>
> .050"
>
> 0
>
> 391
>
> 0.0
>
> 0.0
>
> .050"
>
>
> 381
>
> 0.0
>
> .100"
>
> 0
>
> 391
>
> 0.0
>
> 0.0
>
> .100"
>
> 0
>
> 381
>
> 0.0
>
> .150"
>
> 0
>
> 391
>
> 0.0
>
> 0.0
>
> .150"
>
> 0
>
> 381
>
> 0.0
>
> .200
>
> 0.382
>
> 391
>
> 149.4
>
> 307.7
>
> .200"
>
> 0.268
>
> 381
>
> 102.1
>
> .250"
>
> 0
>
> 391
>
> 0.0
>
> 0.0
>
> .250"
>
> 0
>
> 381
>
> 0.0
>
> .300"
>
> 0.536
>
> 391
>
> 209.6
>
> 431.7
>
> .300"
>
> 0.359
>
> 381
>
> 136.8
>
> .350"
>
> 0
>
> 391
>
> 0.0
>
> 0.0
>
> .350"
>
> 0
>
> 381
>
> 0.0
>
> .400"
>
> 0.658
>
> 391
>
> 257.3
>
> 530
>
> .400"
>
> 0.425
>
> 381
>
> 161.9
>
> .450"
>
> 0.721
>
> 391
>
> 281.9
>
> 580.7
>
> .450"
>
> 0.462
>
> 381
>
> 176.0
>
> .500"
>
> 0.763
>
> 391
>
> 298.3
>
> 614.6
>
> .500"
>
> 0.487
>
> 381
>
> 185.5
>
> .550"
>
> 0.79
>
> 391
>
> 308.9
>
> 636.3
>
> .550"
>
> 0.513
>
> 381
>
> 195.5
>
> .600"
>
> 0.81
>
> 391
>
> 316.7
>
> 652.4
>
> .600"
>
> 0.534
>
> 381
>
> 203.5
>
> .650"
>
> 0.822
>
> 391
>
> 321.4
>
> 662.1
>
> .650"
>
> 0.562
>
> 381
>
> 214.1
>
> .700"
>
> 0
>
> 391
>
> 0
>
> 0
>
> .700"
>
> 0.581
>
> 381
>
> 221.4
>
>
>
> Based on this info I would really appreciate any suggestions on
> configuration and especially on cam's that would work best.
>
> Seems mostly everyone is going with hydraulic roller setup and max.
> lift around 0.50; my engine builder was skeptic about 0.50 lift
> suspecting it would be too extreme for durability of the valve train?
>
>
> Target is to get the most out of the motor between 4K and 6K and it
> would be mostly used on the road with occasional track day; with
> European highways it would be important to be able to sustain longer
> high speed driving.
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
> Robert
>
>
> From: Boyd Casey [mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 9:04 AM
> To: Robert Stroj
> Cc: John Taphorn; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>
>
> Robert first things first. If I we're in your shoes I would seek out
> some professional help. A person with access to Dynomation software
>
> (or similar software ) can tell you approximately what kind of HP and
> torque your engine should be producing with it's current build. Try
> "Clevelands forever or clevelands .net you can find them on Google. By
> entering your Cam grind your piston type, your heads , valve sizes ,
> bore stroke etc. they can tell you what type of HP and torque you
> should be getting. Next or maybe first you need to check that your
> valves are adjusted properly ( since you have solid lifters, I already
> suggested you check the compression of your cylinders to see that all
> eight match or are close. Check the timing, check the plugs. It may be
> something relatively simple or several things.So find out what you
> engine should be making, then check that everything is in order. It's
> like navigating. You have to know where you are in order to be able to
> figure out how to get to where you want to go! Once you know what your
> engine should do and you check all the basic systems you will have a
> clue as to whats wrong. Or you could just take it o a good shop and
> throw money at the problem. But I think the first step is to find out
> what kind of build you actually have. I recently read that 90% of
> clevelands were not built to high performance standards .
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Boyd
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Robert Stroj <[2]npdrs at maui.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Thanks a lot for comments on the gearbox.
> Will firs start by making sure lever is centered and then and
> trunion
> bearing is tight, if necessary follow with checking the mentioned
> spring.
> Best, Robert
> From: John Taphorn [mailto:[3]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 4:15 PM
> To: Robert Stroj; [4]detomaso at poca.com
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>
> Regarding your ZF slipping out of third. I've rebuilt several of
> these
> boxes and can offer a little insight.
> First - Check to ensure the trunion bearing is tightly in place.
> Second - Ensure that when in neutral the shift shaft is dead center
> north and south in the gate. If not adjust so it is centered.
> Thirdly - Do you know if the rear plate of the ZF has been removed
> or
> the ZF rebuilt? On my first ZF rebuild, I improperly installed the
> spring for the 3rd gear shifter pad. I installed it out of order
> and
> the spring was compromised not allowing full pressure on the detent.
> It is a small spring, yet when not properly tensioned allows the
> third
> gear shifter shaft to slide out of place. I encountered the same
> problem that you are experiencing. It was easy to hold in place
> with
> my hand resting against the shifter in third gear.
> It was not a difficult fix and the part is inexpensive; yet,
> required
> removal of the ZF and minor dis assembly of the ZF.
> I hope it is one or two.
> JT
> On 7/1/2014 10:05 AM, Robert Stroj wrote:
> So, finally, my '71 Pantera got through all the import procedures and
> is now
> street legal in Europe/Germany!
> Car is in very good shape, zero rust anywhere, suspension feels very
> good to
> drive (height adjustable koni set), brakes work well (wilwood
> conversion),
> but there is something not right with the motor.
> Engine is a older 351C rebuild using original crankshaft and pistons.
> Some
> years later it was fitted with CHI 3V heads and intake system, SS
> valves,
> 780 Holley and GTS exhaust system.
> When driving the cart was pulling well, but definitely was not feeling
> as
> 400-500HP car; this is what I was sort of expecting after talking to
> person
> who rebuild the engine as well as previous owner...it did not really
> feel as
> 300HP car...
> I had a chance to put it on the dyno at the friend's garage and got the
> following graph (please see the attached image); this are graphs for
> adjusted power on the flywheel after recalculating looses between
> engine and
> wheels.
> What was really interesting is that he had a chance to test 2 other
> panteras
> recently; one was a client that had rebuilt engine using some "special
> parts", bt I am not sure of the actual spec while the other one was
> black
> GR4 replica that is currently listed for sale in Germany and was built
> by
> Braun Motorsport:
> [1][5]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-
> hist-strass
> enzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumb
> er=1&
> __lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DE
> SCEND
> ING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=fa
> lse&m
> akeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreet
> ext=f
> alse&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT
> So, finally, my engine did not even reach 250HP, another rebuild
> pantera
> motor did just over 300HP while Braun pantera did very nice 389HP;
> there is
> also Ford GT40 with racing motor in there; it did 410hp but at much
> higher
> RPM.
> The most impressive about the Braun car is how smooth the power curve
> is.
> So, now I am wondering where to go from here; could it be that it is as
> simple as wrong cam choice?
> If going to do a rebuild is there a good configuration someone could
> suggest
> that would use CHI3V heads and intake, as I already got those?
> As well, I had something strange happen twice with the gearbox; it got
> out
> of the 3rd gear by itself; would someone know if this could be due to
> any
> wrong linkage adjustment?
> Thanks, Robert
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2][6]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [3][7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> References
> 1.
> [8]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-his
> t-strass
> 2. mailto:[9]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 3. [10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [11]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5650045562/m/994102665
> 2. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
> 3. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 5. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strassenzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT
> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 8. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
> 9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 08:22:09 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
> From: bill gaino <gaino at earthlink.net>
> To: poca list <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Ebay tank
> Message-ID:
> <33122459.1408450929834.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Watch this seller... I bought a Strip Dominator intake that was supposed to be powdercoated, a little gas spilled on it and the spray can silver paint washed off. If I had know I would have had it coated or polished BEFORE I installed it.Bill 1362
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detomaso-Pantera-Coolant-tank-/261565548189?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ce685869d&vxp=mtr
>
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
> If you want it slick. www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 13:40:19 +0000 (GMT)
> From: cengles at cox.net
> To: npdrs at maui.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
> Message-ID: <7eee65.bdd03.147ee7f3522.Webtop.0 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no
>
> Dear Robert,
>
>
>
> I don't have the full story on your engine problem,
> but I noticed that you said that you bought CHI heads from PIM. I
> didn't think that PIM sold the actual CHI heads and I checked their web
> site. They sell "aluminum heads" of unknown brand and provenence. It
> is possible that is what you bought. I know of another PIM engine that
> was built with aluminum heads. It failed after short use and the engine
> teardown showed that the aluminum heads seemed to be sourced from China
> and were remarkably thin. That was the basis of that engine failure.
> It may be that you have similar faulty aluminum heads.
>
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>>> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:09 AM, Robert Stroj wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> So, I will be definitely rebuilding my engine??after first harder
>> drive (only about 30-40 min of fast street driving) my oil got FULL of
>> water; by extra height on the stick and what was missing in the water
>> tank I estimate about 2littres!
>>
>> I pushed the car a bit, but never went over 6K rpm, never overheated;
>> it seems to me as if my car was never really driven hard; it is really
>> strange with all performance parts bolted on that it would blow like
>> this on first real drive.
>>
>> Before that I installed mechanical oil pressure gauge to make sure my
>> oil pressure was good and it was fine; about 50psi cold and down to
>> about 30psi when hot on idle.
>>
>>
>> So, now I was lucky to get to know American engine specialist in
>> Munich (he was even successful in the past driving Camaro?s in German
>> DTM) who will be rebuilding the engine.
>>
>> He has build lots of Chevy?s and Ford?s but is not really a 351C
>> specialist.
>>
>>
>> First, we will need to find out where the water went; hopefully is a
>> head gasket and not a crack in a block or head?
>>
>>
>> What I will now be looking for is advise on best build spec trying to
>> use as many of components that I already got.
>>
>> Inspired on Dan Johns engines I was thinking to go ahead with SCAT 408
>> stroker kit; here I found engine with similar heads I got (I have 3V
>> version and CHI hi-rise intake):
>> http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5650045562/m/994102665
>>
>> My CHI heads ware purchased trough PIM, so I believe this is the spec:
>> http://www.pim.net/3vart1113.jpg
>> Our special heads are made of http://www.pim.net/3valumart.jpg
>> Keep the 351C platform and avoid the 351W change out. With the below
>> specifications, why bother?
>>
>>
>> We are pleased to present these awesome heads. Please review our test
>> results. They speak for themselves. You have to experience these heads
>> to realize what we have unleashed on the Pantera world.
>>
>> Test Notes:
>> Intake port volume: 213 cc's Intake valve: 2.190 Exhaust: 1.710
>> Chamber: 60 cc's. Test performed at 28 inches of H20 at 16 degrees c.
>>
>>
>>
>> Intake Lift
>>
>> %
>>
>> Range
>>
>> CFM
>>
>> HP
>>
>> Exhaust Lift
>>
>> %
>>
>> Range
>>
>> CFM
>>
>>
>> .050"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> .050"
>>
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>>
>> .100"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> .100"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>>
>> .150"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> .150"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>>
>> .200
>>
>> 0.382
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 149.4
>>
>> 307.7
>>
>> .200"
>>
>> 0.268
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 102.1
>>
>>
>> .250"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> .250"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>>
>> .300"
>>
>> 0.536
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 209.6
>>
>> 431.7
>>
>> .300"
>>
>> 0.359
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 136.8
>>
>>
>> .350"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> .350"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>>
>> .400"
>>
>> 0.658
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 257.3
>>
>> 530
>>
>> .400"
>>
>> 0.425
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 161.9
>>
>>
>> .450"
>>
>> 0.721
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 281.9
>>
>> 580.7
>>
>> .450"
>>
>> 0.462
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 176.0
>>
>>
>> .500"
>>
>> 0.763
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 298.3
>>
>> 614.6
>>
>> .500"
>>
>> 0.487
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 185.5
>>
>>
>> .550"
>>
>> 0.79
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 308.9
>>
>> 636.3
>>
>> .550"
>>
>> 0.513
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 195.5
>>
>>
>> .600"
>>
>> 0.81
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 316.7
>>
>> 652.4
>>
>> .600"
>>
>> 0.534
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 203.5
>>
>>
>> .650"
>>
>> 0.822
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 321.4
>>
>> 662.1
>>
>> .650"
>>
>> 0.562
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 214.1
>>
>>
>> .700"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 0
>>
>> .700"
>>
>> 0.581
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 221.4
>>
>>
>>
>> Based on this info I would really appreciate any suggestions on
>> configuration and especially on cam?s that would work best.
>>
>> Seems mostly everyone is going with hydraulic roller setup and max.
>> lift around 0.50; my engine builder was skeptic about 0.50 lift
>> suspecting it would be too extreme for durability of the valve train?
>>
>>
>> Target is to get the most out of the motor between 4K and 6K and it
>> would be mostly used on the road with occasional track day; with
>> European highways it would be important to be able to sustain longer
>> high speed driving.
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>> From: Boyd Casey [mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 16,
>> 2014 9:04 AM
>> To: Robert Stroj
>> Cc: John Taphorn; detomaso at poca.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>>
>>
>> Robert first things first. If I we're in your shoes I would seek out
>> some professional help. A person with access to Dynomation software
>>
>> (or similar software ) can tell you approximately what kind of HP and
>> torque your engine should be producing with it's current build. Try
>> "Clevelands forever or clevelands .net you can find them on Google. By
>> entering your Cam grind your piston type, your heads , valve sizes ,
>> bore stroke etc. they can tell you what type of HP and torque you
>> should be getting. Next or maybe first you need to check that your
>> valves are adjusted properly ( since you have solid lifters, I already
>> suggested you check the compression of your cylinders to see that all
>> eight match or are close. Check the timing, check the plugs. It may be
>> something relatively simple or several things.So find out what you
>> engine should be making, then check that everything is in order. It's
>> like navigating. You have to know where you are in order to be able to
>> figure out how to get to where you want to go! Once you know what your
>> engine should do and you check all the basic systems you will have a
>> clue as to whats wrong. Or you could just take it o a good shop and
>> throw money at the problem. But I think the first step is to find out
>> what kind of build you actually have. I recently read that 90% of
>> clevelands were not built to high performance standards .
>>
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Boyd
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Robert Stroj <npdrs at maui.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot for comments on the gearbox.
>>
>> Will firs start by making sure lever is centered and then and
>> trunion
>> bearing is tight, if necessary follow with checking the mentioned
>> spring.
>>
>>
>> Best, Robert
>>
>>
>> From: John Taphorn [mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 4:15 PM
>> To: Robert Stroj; detomaso at poca.com
>>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding your ZF slipping out of third. I've rebuilt several of
>> these
>> boxes and can offer a little insight.
>> First - Check to ensure the trunion bearing is tightly in place.
>> Second - Ensure that when in neutral the shift shaft is dead center
>> north and south in the gate. If not adjust so it is centered.
>> Thirdly - Do you know if the rear plate of the ZF has been removed
>> or
>> the ZF rebuilt? On my first ZF rebuild, I improperly installed the
>> spring for the 3rd gear shifter pad. I installed it out of order
>> and
>> the spring was compromised not allowing full pressure on the
>> detent.
>> It is a small spring, yet when not properly tensioned allows the
>> third
>> gear shifter shaft to slide out of place. I encountered the same
>> problem that you are experiencing. It was easy to hold in place
>> with
>> my hand resting against the shifter in third gear.
>> It was not a difficult fix and the part is inexpensive; yet,
>> required
>> removal of the ZF and minor dis assembly of the ZF.
>> I hope it is one or two.
>> JT
>>
>> On 7/1/2014 10:05 AM, Robert Stroj wrote:
>>
>>
>> So, finally, my '71 Pantera got through all the import procedures and
>> is now
>> street legal in Europe/Germany!
>> Car is in very good shape, zero rust anywhere, suspension feels very
>> good to
>> drive (height adjustable koni set), brakes work well (wilwood
>> conversion),
>> but there is something not right with the motor.
>> Engine is a older 351C rebuild using original crankshaft and pistons.
>> Some
>> years later it was fitted with CHI 3V heads and intake system, SS
>> valves,
>> 780 Holley and GTS exhaust system.
>> When driving the cart was pulling well, but definitely was not feeling
>> as
>> 400-500HP car; this is what I was sort of expecting after talking to
>> person
>> who rebuild the engine as well as previous owner...it did not really
>> feel as
>> 300HP car...
>> I had a chance to put it on the dyno at the friend's garage and got
>> the
>> following graph (please see the attached image); this are graphs for
>> adjusted power on the flywheel after recalculating looses between
>> engine and
>> wheels.
>> What was really interesting is that he had a chance to test 2 other
>> panteras
>> recently; one was a client that had rebuilt engine using some "special
>> parts", bt I am not sure of the actual spec while the other one was
>> black
>> GR4 replica that is currently listed for sale in Germany and was built
>> by
>> Braun Motorsport:
>>
>>
>> [1]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
>> <http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strassenzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT>
>> enzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&
>>
>> __lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCEND
>>
>> ING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&m
>>
>> akeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=f
>> alse&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT
>>
>> So, finally, my engine did not even reach 250HP, another rebuild
>> pantera
>> motor did just over 300HP while Braun pantera did very nice 389HP;
>> there is
>> also Ford GT40 with racing motor in there; it did 410hp but at much
>> higher
>> RPM.
>> The most impressive about the Braun car is how smooth the power curve
>> is.
>>
>> So, now I am wondering where to go from here; could it be that it is
>> as
>> simple as wrong cam choice?
>> If going to do a rebuild is there a good configuration someone could
>> suggest
>> that would use CHI3V heads and intake, as I already got those?
>>
>> As well, I had something strange happen twice with the gearbox; it got
>> out
>> of the 3rd gear by itself; would someone know if this could be due to
>> any
>> wrong linkage adjustment?
>>
>> Thanks, Robert
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1.
>> http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 09:41:17 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Tom Shinrock <tmshinro at aol.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Longchamp no-sale in Monterey
> Message-ID: <8D189CA63205D77-F78-12AD at webmail-va046.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> I see there is an add on Hemmings today for the Longchamp. Price is $60K
>
> http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/detomaso/longchamp/1675280.html?refer=news
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> To: bjbstewart <bjbstewart at yahoo.com>; MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso at POCA.com>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 18, 2014 10:56 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Longchamp no-sale in Monterey
>
>
> The "Not legal in California and cannot be sold to a California
> resident" fine print at the bottom of the description sheet on the
> car probably had a big impact on its value.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brent Stewart via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> To: MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso at POCA.com>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 18, 2014 1:25 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Longchamp no-sale in Monterey
> There were a few other Panteras up for auction last weekend - any news
> on the results?
> On Monday, August 18, 2014 1:01 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[1]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> Hi guys,
> An '83 Longchamp was a no-sale at Russo and Steele in Monterey,
> reportedly with a bid around $38K. Other than the FUGLY wheels it
> looks really nice, especially with the first-gen bumpers on a later
> 3000-series car.
>
> [1][2]http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp
> /91
> 151
> The blacked-out trim is a very 80's treatment; I prefer the chrome
> look
> but this car certainly looks menacing....
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2][3]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [3][4]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. [5]http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp/91
> 2. [6]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 3. [7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [8]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 2. http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp
> 3. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 4. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 5. http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp/91
> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
> 7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> I see there is an add on Hemmings today for the Longchamp. Price is
> $60K
> http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/detomaso/longchamp/1675
> 280.html?refer=news
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> To: bjbstewart <bjbstewart at yahoo.com>; MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>;
> detomaso <detomaso at POCA.com>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 18, 2014 10:56 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Longchamp no-sale in Monterey
> The "Not legal in California and cannot be sold to a California
> resident" fine print at the bottom of the description sheet on the
> car probably had a big impact on its value.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brent Stewart via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso at poca.com>
> To: MikeLDrew <[2]MikeLDrew at aol.com>; detomaso <[3]detomaso at POCA.com>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 18, 2014 1:25 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Longchamp no-sale in Monterey
> There were a few other Panteras up for auction last weekend - any news
> on the results?
> On Monday, August 18, 2014 1:01 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[1][4]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> Hi guys,
> An '83 Longchamp was a no-sale at Russo and Steele in Monterey,
> reportedly with a bid around $38K. Other than the FUGLY wheels it
> looks really nice, especially with the first-gen bumpers on a later
> 3000-series car.
>
> [1][2][5]http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp
> /91
> 151
> The blacked-out trim is a very 80's treatment; I prefer the chrome
> look
> but this car certainly looks menacing....
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2][3][6]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [3][4][7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. [5][8]http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp
> /91
> 2. [6][9]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 3. [7][10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [8][11]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [9][12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. [13]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 2. [14]http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp
> 3. [15]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 4. [16]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 5. [17]http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp/9
> 1
> 6. [18]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
> 7. [19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 8. [20]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 9. [21]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [22]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [23]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 2. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 3. mailto:detomaso at POCA.com
> 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 5. http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp
> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 8. http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp/91
> 9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
> 10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 13. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
> 14. http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp
> 15. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
> 16. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 17. http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1983-De-Tomaso-Longchamp/91
> 18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
> 19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 20. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
> 21. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 22. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 23. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 04:22:05 -1000
> From: "Robert Stroj" <npdrs at maui.net>
> To: <cengles at cox.net>
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
> Message-ID: <039001cfbbb8$f3d25c60$db771520$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> I did not buy the heads myself, but it was the previous owner; I got a receipts from PIM for those heads including SS valves instaled.
> They are real CHI heads (they got CHI cast into aluminum at the place where headers mount); spoke to Jerry from PIM and he confirmed that about 8 years ago they were selling CHI 3V heads; they after then got their own no-name heads.
>
> The problem was that I was not able to find which CHI version I got, but then, by luck, found old link on PIM page to the actual spec of 3V they sold; this is the spec I posted in the e-mail.
>
> So, now I hope that my heads and block are fine and that it is the head gasket where water went through to the oil....
>
> Now I would like to use this opportunity to rebuild the motor to get best performance/durability with reasonable investment.
>
> All the best,
>
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cengles at cox.net [mailto:cengles at cox.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:40 AM
> To: npdrs at maui.net
> Cc: boyd411 at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>
> Dear Robert,
>
>
>
> I don't have the full story on your engine problem,
> but I noticed that you said that you bought CHI heads from PIM. I
> didn't think that PIM sold the actual CHI heads and I checked their web
> site. They sell "aluminum heads" of unknown brand and provenence. It
> is possible that is what you bought. I know of another PIM engine that
> was built with aluminum heads. It failed after short use and the engine teardown showed that the aluminum heads seemed to be sourced from China
> and were remarkably thin. That was the basis of that engine failure.
> It may be that you have similar faulty aluminum heads.
>
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:09 AM, Robert Stroj wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> So, I will be definitely rebuilding my engine??after first harder
>> drive (only about 30-40 min of fast street driving) my oil got FULL of
>> water; by extra height on the stick and what was missing in the water
>> tank I estimate about 2littres!
>>
>> I pushed the car a bit, but never went over 6K rpm, never overheated;
>> it seems to me as if my car was never really driven hard; it is really
>> strange with all performance parts bolted on that it would blow like
>> this on first real drive.
>>
>> Before that I installed mechanical oil pressure gauge to make sure my
>> oil pressure was good and it was fine; about 50psi cold and down to
>> about 30psi when hot on idle.
>>
>>
>> So, now I was lucky to get to know American engine specialist in
>> Munich (he was even successful in the past driving Camaro?s in German
>> DTM) who will be rebuilding the engine.
>>
>> He has build lots of Chevy?s and Ford?s but is not really a 351C
>> specialist.
>>
>>
>> First, we will need to find out where the water went; hopefully is a
>> head gasket and not a crack in a block or head?
>>
>>
>> What I will now be looking for is advise on best build spec trying to
>> use as many of components that I already got.
>>
>> Inspired on Dan Johns engines I was thinking to go ahead with SCAT 408
>> stroker kit; here I found engine with similar heads I got (I have 3V
>> version and CHI hi-rise intake):
>> http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5650045562/m/994102665
>>
>> My CHI heads ware purchased trough PIM, so I believe this is the spec:
>> http://www.pim.net/3vart1113.jpg
>> Our special heads are made of http://www.pim.net/3valumart.jpg
>> Keep the 351C platform and avoid the 351W change out. With the below
>> specifications, why bother?
>>
>>
>> We are pleased to present these awesome heads. Please review our test
>> results. They speak for themselves. You have to experience these heads
>> to realize what we have unleashed on the Pantera world.
>>
>> Test Notes:
>> Intake port volume: 213 cc's Intake valve: 2.190 Exhaust: 1.710
>> Chamber: 60 cc's. Test performed at 28 inches of H20 at 16 degrees c.
>>
>>
>>
>> Intake Lift
>>
>> %
>>
>> Range
>>
>> CFM
>>
>> HP
>>
>> Exhaust Lift
>>
>> %
>>
>> Range
>>
>> CFM
>>
>>
>> .050"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> .050"
>>
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>>
>> .100"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> .100"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>>
>> .150"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> .150"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>>
>> .200
>>
>> 0.382
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 149.4
>>
>> 307.7
>>
>> .200"
>>
>> 0.268
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 102.1
>>
>>
>> .250"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> .250"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>>
>> .300"
>>
>> 0.536
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 209.6
>>
>> 431.7
>>
>> .300"
>>
>> 0.359
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 136.8
>>
>>
>> .350"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>> .350"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 0.0
>>
>>
>> .400"
>>
>> 0.658
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 257.3
>>
>> 530
>>
>> .400"
>>
>> 0.425
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 161.9
>>
>>
>> .450"
>>
>> 0.721
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 281.9
>>
>> 580.7
>>
>> .450"
>>
>> 0.462
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 176.0
>>
>>
>> .500"
>>
>> 0.763
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 298.3
>>
>> 614.6
>>
>> .500"
>>
>> 0.487
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 185.5
>>
>>
>> .550"
>>
>> 0.79
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 308.9
>>
>> 636.3
>>
>> .550"
>>
>> 0.513
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 195.5
>>
>>
>> .600"
>>
>> 0.81
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 316.7
>>
>> 652.4
>>
>> .600"
>>
>> 0.534
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 203.5
>>
>>
>> .650"
>>
>> 0.822
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 321.4
>>
>> 662.1
>>
>> .650"
>>
>> 0.562
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 214.1
>>
>>
>> .700"
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 391
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 0
>>
>> .700"
>>
>> 0.581
>>
>> 381
>>
>> 221.4
>>
>>
>>
>> Based on this info I would really appreciate any suggestions on
>> configuration and especially on cam?s that would work best.
>>
>> Seems mostly everyone is going with hydraulic roller setup and max.
>> lift around 0.50; my engine builder was skeptic about 0.50 lift
>> suspecting it would be too extreme for durability of the valve train?
>>
>>
>> Target is to get the most out of the motor between 4K and 6K and it
>> would be mostly used on the road with occasional track day; with
>> European highways it would be important to be able to sustain longer
>> high speed driving.
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>> From: Boyd Casey [mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 16,
>> 2014 9:04 AM
>> To: Robert Stroj
>> Cc: John Taphorn; detomaso at poca.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>>
>>
>> Robert first things first. If I we're in your shoes I would seek out
>> some professional help. A person with access to Dynomation software
>>
>> (or similar software ) can tell you approximately what kind of HP and
>> torque your engine should be producing with it's current build. Try
>> "Clevelands forever or clevelands .net you can find them on Google. By
>> entering your Cam grind your piston type, your heads , valve sizes ,
>> bore stroke etc. they can tell you what type of HP and torque you
>> should be getting. Next or maybe first you need to check that your
>> valves are adjusted properly ( since you have solid lifters, I already
>> suggested you check the compression of your cylinders to see that all
>> eight match or are close. Check the timing, check the plugs. It may be
>> something relatively simple or several things.So find out what you
>> engine should be making, then check that everything is in order. It's
>> like navigating. You have to know where you are in order to be able to
>> figure out how to get to where you want to go! Once you know what your
>> engine should do and you check all the basic systems you will have a
>> clue as to whats wrong. Or you could just take it o a good shop and
>> throw money at the problem. But I think the first step is to find out
>> what kind of build you actually have. I recently read that 90% of
>> clevelands were not built to high performance standards .
>>
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Boyd
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Robert Stroj <npdrs at maui.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot for comments on the gearbox.
>>
>> Will firs start by making sure lever is centered and then and
>> trunion
>> bearing is tight, if necessary follow with checking the mentioned
>> spring.
>>
>>
>> Best, Robert
>>
>>
>> From: John Taphorn [mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 4:15 PM
>> To: Robert Stroj; detomaso at poca.com
>>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding your ZF slipping out of third. I've rebuilt several of
>> these
>> boxes and can offer a little insight.
>> First - Check to ensure the trunion bearing is tightly in place.
>> Second - Ensure that when in neutral the shift shaft is dead center
>> north and south in the gate. If not adjust so it is centered.
>> Thirdly - Do you know if the rear plate of the ZF has been removed
>> or
>> the ZF rebuilt? On my first ZF rebuild, I improperly installed the
>> spring for the 3rd gear shifter pad. I installed it out of order
>> and
>> the spring was compromised not allowing full pressure on the
>> detent.
>> It is a small spring, yet when not properly tensioned allows the
>> third
>> gear shifter shaft to slide out of place. I encountered the same
>> problem that you are experiencing. It was easy to hold in place
>> with
>> my hand resting against the shifter in third gear.
>> It was not a difficult fix and the part is inexpensive; yet,
>> required
>> removal of the ZF and minor dis assembly of the ZF.
>> I hope it is one or two.
>> JT
>>
>> On 7/1/2014 10:05 AM, Robert Stroj wrote:
>>
>>
>> So, finally, my '71 Pantera got through all the import procedures and
>> is now
>> street legal in Europe/Germany!
>> Car is in very good shape, zero rust anywhere, suspension feels very
>> good to
>> drive (height adjustable koni set), brakes work well (wilwood
>> conversion),
>> but there is something not right with the motor.
>> Engine is a older 351C rebuild using original crankshaft and pistons.
>> Some
>> years later it was fitted with CHI 3V heads and intake system, SS
>> valves,
>> 780 Holley and GTS exhaust system.
>> When driving the cart was pulling well, but definitely was not feeling
>> as
>> 400-500HP car; this is what I was sort of expecting after talking to
>> person
>> who rebuild the engine as well as previous owner...it did not really
>> feel as
>> 300HP car...
>> I had a chance to put it on the dyno at the friend's garage and got
>> the
>> following graph (please see the attached image); this are graphs for
>> adjusted power on the flywheel after recalculating looses between
>> engine and
>> wheels.
>> What was really interesting is that he had a chance to test 2 other
>> panteras
>> recently; one was a client that had rebuilt engine using some "special
>> parts", bt I am not sure of the actual spec while the other one was
>> black
>> GR4 replica that is currently listed for sale in Germany and was built
>> by
>> Braun Motorsport:
>>
>>
>> [1]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
>> <http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strassenzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT>
>> enzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&
>>
>> __lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCEND
>>
>> ING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&m
>>
>> akeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=f
>> alse&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT
>>
>> So, finally, my engine did not even reach 250HP, another rebuild
>> pantera
>> motor did just over 300HP while Braun pantera did very nice 389HP;
>> there is
>> also Ford GT40 with racing motor in there; it did 410hp but at much
>> higher
>> RPM.
>> The most impressive about the Braun car is how smooth the power curve
>> is.
>>
>> So, now I am wondering where to go from here; could it be that it is
>> as
>> simple as wrong cam choice?
>> If going to do a rebuild is there a good configuration someone could
>> suggest
>> that would use CHI3V heads and intake, as I already got those?
>>
>> As well, I had something strange happen twice with the gearbox; it got
>> out
>> of the 3rd gear by itself; would someone know if this could be due to
>> any
>> wrong linkage adjustment?
>>
>> Thanks, Robert
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1.
>> http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:32:41 +0000
> From: "Himes, Terry (397C)" <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
> To: bill gaino <gaino at earthlink.net>, poca list <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ebay tank
> Message-ID: <D018AD33.5C832%thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Bill,
>
> That's not good enough. You need to contact eBay and report him as a fraudulent seller. I've done it and they are
> serious about keeping those people off of eBay. If you can prove it, make sure you send them the proof. If you do
> it will help all of us in the long run.
>
> IMHO
>
> Terry
>
>
>
>
>
> "Sometimes I think the surest signs that intelligent life
> exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried
> to contact us!"
>
> Terry W. Himes [cid:FA6EF116-AC1D-4C99-80D4-A7CA25987895]
> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
> Deep Impact Sequence Team Lead
> Deep Impact Spacecraft Engineer & Activity Lead
> Rosetta/MEX/VEX Sequence Team Lead
> Phone: (818) 393-6261
> Cell: (818) 653-8213
> Fax: (818) 393-3147
> thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
> ??
>
> From: bill gaino <gaino at earthlink.net<mailto:gaino at earthlink.net>>
> Reply-To: bill gaino <gaino at earthlink.net<mailto:gaino at earthlink.net>>
> Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 5:22 AM
> To: poca list <detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Ebay tank
>
> Watch this seller... I bought a Strip Dominator intake that was supposed to be powdercoated, a little gas spilled on it and the spray can silver paint washed off. If I had know I would have had it coated or polished BEFORE I installed it.Bill 1362
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detomaso-Pantera-Coolant-tank-/261565548189?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ce685869d&vxp=mtr
>
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
> If you want it slick. www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com<mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com>
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Bill,
> That's not good enough. You need to contact eBay and report him as a
> fraudulent seller. I've done it and they are
> serious about keeping those people off of eBay. If you can prove it,
> make sure you send them the proof. If you do
> it will help all of us in the long run.
> IMHO
> Terry
>
> "Sometimes I think the surest signs that intelligent life
>
> exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried
>
> to contact us!"
>
> Terry W. Himes [cid:FA6EF116-AC1D-4C99-80D4-A7CA25987895]
>
> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
>
> Deep Impact Sequence Team Lead
>
> Deep Impact Spacecraft Engineer & Activity Lead
>
> Rosetta/MEX/VEX Sequence Team Lead
>
> Phone: (818) 393-6261
>
> Cell: (818) 653-8213
>
> Fax: (818) 393-3147
>
> [1]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>
> From: bill gaino <[2]gaino at earthlink.net>
> Reply-To: bill gaino <[3]gaino at earthlink.net>
> Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 5:22 AM
> To: poca list <[4]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Ebay tank
>
> Watch this seller... I bought a Strip Dominator intake that was
> supposed to be powdercoated, a little gas spilled on it and the spray
> can silver paint washed off. If I had know I would have had it coated
> or polished BEFORE I installed it.Bill 1362
> [5]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detomaso-Pantera-Coolant-tank-/261565548189?
> pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ce685869d&vxp=mtr
> [6]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&
> fref=ts
> If you want it slick. www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [7]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 2. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
> 3. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
> 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 5. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detomaso-Pantera-Coolant-tank-/261565548189?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ce685869d&vxp=mtr
> 6. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:56:44 +0000 (GMT)
> From: cengles at cox.net
> To: npdrs at maui.net, detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
> Message-ID: <1a4205f.1feb.147eec52b1a.Webtop.0 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no
>
>
> Dear Robert,
>
>
>
> Ah! It is good that you have real and not Chinese CHI
> heads. I would certainly look elsewhere for the problem and the head
> gasket would seem to be at the top of the list.
>
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Robert Stroj wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I did not buy the heads myself, but it was the previous owner; I got a
>> receipts from PIM for those heads including SS valves instaled.
>> They are real CHI heads (they got CHI cast into aluminum at the place
>> where headers mount); spoke to Jerry from PIM and he confirmed that
>> about 8 years ago they were selling CHI 3V heads; they after then got
>> their own no-name heads.
>> The problem was that I was not able to find which CHI version I got,
>> but then, by luck, found old link on PIM page to the actual spec of 3V
>> they sold; this is the spec I posted in the e-mail.
>>
>> So, now I hope that my heads and block are fine and that it is the
>> head gasket where water went through to the oil....
>>
>> Now I would like to use this opportunity to rebuild the motor to get
>> best performance/durability with reasonable investment.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cengles at cox.net [mailto:cengles at cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, August
>> 19, 2014 3:40 AM
>> To: npdrs at maui.net
>> Cc: boyd411 at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>>
>> Dear Robert,
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't have the full story on your engine problem,
>> but I noticed that you said that you bought CHI heads from PIM. I
>> didn't think that PIM sold the actual CHI heads and I checked their
>> web site. They sell "aluminum heads" of unknown brand and provenence.
>> It is possible that is what you bought. I know of another PIM engine
>> that was built with aluminum heads. It failed after short use and the
>> engine teardown showed that the aluminum heads seemed to be sourced
>> from China and were remarkably thin. That was the basis of that
>> engine failure. It may be that you have similar faulty aluminum heads.
>>
>>
>> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:09 AM, Robert Stroj wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> So, I will be definitely rebuilding my engine??after first harder
>>> drive (only about 30-40 min of fast street driving) my oil got FULL
>>> of water; by extra height on the stick and what was missing in the
>>> water tank I estimate about 2littres!
>>>
>>> I pushed the car a bit, but never went over 6K rpm, never overheated;
>>> it seems to me as if my car was never really driven hard; it is
>>> really strange with all performance parts bolted on that it would
>>> blow like this on first real drive.
>>>
>>> Before that I installed mechanical oil pressure gauge to make sure my
>>> oil pressure was good and it was fine; about 50psi cold and down to
>>> about 30psi when hot on idle.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, now I was lucky to get to know American engine specialist in
>>> Munich (he was even successful in the past driving Camaro?s in German
>>> DTM) who will be rebuilding the engine.
>>>
>>> He has build lots of Chevy?s and Ford?s but is not really a 351C
>>> specialist.
>>>
>>>
>>> First, we will need to find out where the water went; hopefully is a
>>> head gasket and not a crack in a block or head?
>>>
>>>
>>> What I will now be looking for is advise on best build spec trying to
>>> use as many of components that I already got.
>>>
>>> Inspired on Dan Johns engines I was thinking to go ahead with SCAT
>>> 408 stroker kit; here I found engine with similar heads I got (I have
>>> 3V version and CHI hi-rise intake):
>>> http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5650045562/m/994102665
>>>
>>> My CHI heads ware purchased trough PIM, so I believe this is the
>>> spec:
>>> http://www.pim.net/3vart1113.jpg
>>> Our special heads are made of http://www.pim.net/3valumart.jpg
>>> Keep the 351C platform and avoid the 351W change out. With the below
>>> specifications, why bother?
>>>
>>>
>>> We are pleased to present these awesome heads. Please review our test
>>> results. They speak for themselves. You have to experience these
>>> heads to realize what we have unleashed on the Pantera world.
>>>
>>> Test Notes:
>>> Intake port volume: 213 cc's Intake valve: 2.190 Exhaust: 1.710
>>> Chamber: 60 cc's. Test performed at 28 inches of H20 at 16 degrees c.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Intake Lift
>>>
>>> %
>>>
>>> Range
>>>
>>> CFM
>>>
>>> HP
>>>
>>> Exhaust Lift
>>>
>>> %
>>>
>>> Range
>>>
>>> CFM
>>>
>>>
>>> .050"
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>> .050"
>>>
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>>
>>> .100"
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>> .100"
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>>
>>> .150"
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>> .150"
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>>
>>> .200
>>>
>>> 0.382
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 149.4
>>>
>>> 307.7
>>>
>>> .200"
>>>
>>> 0.268
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 102.1
>>>
>>>
>>> .250"
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>> .250"
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>>
>>> .300"
>>>
>>> 0.536
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 209.6
>>>
>>> 431.7
>>>
>>> .300"
>>>
>>> 0.359
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 136.8
>>>
>>>
>>> .350"
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>> .350"
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 0.0
>>>
>>>
>>> .400"
>>>
>>> 0.658
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 257.3
>>>
>>> 530
>>>
>>> .400"
>>>
>>> 0.425
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 161.9
>>>
>>>
>>> .450"
>>>
>>> 0.721
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 281.9
>>>
>>> 580.7
>>>
>>> .450"
>>>
>>> 0.462
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 176.0
>>>
>>>
>>> .500"
>>>
>>> 0.763
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 298.3
>>>
>>> 614.6
>>>
>>> .500"
>>>
>>> 0.487
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 185.5
>>>
>>>
>>> .550"
>>>
>>> 0.79
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 308.9
>>>
>>> 636.3
>>>
>>> .550"
>>>
>>> 0.513
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 195.5
>>>
>>>
>>> .600"
>>>
>>> 0.81
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 316.7
>>>
>>> 652.4
>>>
>>> .600"
>>>
>>> 0.534
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 203.5
>>>
>>>
>>> .650"
>>>
>>> 0.822
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 321.4
>>>
>>> 662.1
>>>
>>> .650"
>>>
>>> 0.562
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 214.1
>>>
>>>
>>> .700"
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>> 391
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>> .700"
>>>
>>> 0.581
>>>
>>> 381
>>>
>>> 221.4
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Based on this info I would really appreciate any suggestions on
>>> configuration and especially on cam?s that would work best.
>>>
>>> Seems mostly everyone is going with hydraulic roller setup and max.
>>> lift around 0.50; my engine builder was skeptic about 0.50 lift
>>> suspecting it would be too extreme for durability of the valve
>>> train?
>>>
>>>
>>> Target is to get the most out of the motor between 4K and 6K and it
>>> would be mostly used on the road with occasional track day; with
>>> European highways it would be important to be able to sustain longer
>>> high speed driving.
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Boyd Casey [mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 16,
>>> 2014 9:04 AM
>>> To: Robert Stroj
>>> Cc: John Taphorn; detomaso at poca.com
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert first things first. If I we're in your shoes I would seek out
>>> some professional help. A person with access to Dynomation software
>>>
>>> (or similar software ) can tell you approximately what kind of HP
>>> and torque your engine should be producing with it's current build.
>>> Try "Clevelands forever or clevelands .net you can find them on
>>> Google. By entering your Cam grind your piston type, your heads ,
>>> valve sizes , bore stroke etc. they can tell you what type of HP and
>>> torque you should be getting. Next or maybe first you need to check
>>> that your valves are adjusted properly ( since you have solid
>>> lifters, I already suggested you check the compression of your
>>> cylinders to see that all eight match or are close. Check the timing,
>>> check the plugs. It may be something relatively simple or several
>>> things.So find out what you engine should be making, then check that
>>> everything is in order. It's like navigating. You have to know where
>>> you are in order to be able to figure out how to get to where you
>>> want to go! Once you know what your engine should do and you check
>>> all the basic systems you will have a clue as to whats wrong. Or you
>>> could just take it o a good shop and throw money at the problem. But
>>> I think the first step is to find out what kind of build you actually
>>> have. I recently read that 90% of clevelands were not built to high
>>> performance standards .
>>>
>>> Good Luck,
>>>
>>> Boyd
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Robert Stroj <npdrs at maui.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot for comments on the gearbox.
>>>
>>> Will firs start by making sure lever is centered and then and
>>> trunion
>>> bearing is tight, if necessary follow with checking the mentioned
>>> spring.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best, Robert
>>>
>>>
>>> From: John Taphorn [mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 4:15 PM
>>> To: Robert Stroj; detomaso at poca.com
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding your ZF slipping out of third. I've rebuilt several of
>>> these
>>> boxes and can offer a little insight.
>>> First - Check to ensure the trunion bearing is tightly in place.
>>> Second - Ensure that when in neutral the shift shaft is dead
>>> center
>>> north and south in the gate. If not adjust so it is centered.
>>> Thirdly - Do you know if the rear plate of the ZF has been removed
>>> or
>>> the ZF rebuilt? On my first ZF rebuild, I improperly installed
>>> the
>>> spring for the 3rd gear shifter pad. I installed it out of order
>>> and
>>> the spring was compromised not allowing full pressure on the
>>> detent.
>>> It is a small spring, yet when not properly tensioned allows the
>>> third
>>> gear shifter shaft to slide out of place. I encountered the same
>>> problem that you are experiencing. It was easy to hold in place
>>> with
>>> my hand resting against the shifter in third gear.
>>> It was not a difficult fix and the part is inexpensive; yet,
>>> required
>>> removal of the ZF and minor dis assembly of the ZF.
>>> I hope it is one or two.
>>> JT
>>>
>>> On 7/1/2014 10:05 AM, Robert Stroj wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> So, finally, my '71 Pantera got through all the import procedures and
>>> is now
>>> street legal in Europe/Germany!
>>> Car is in very good shape, zero rust anywhere, suspension feels very
>>> good to
>>> drive (height adjustable koni set), brakes work well (wilwood
>>> conversion),
>>> but there is something not right with the motor.
>>> Engine is a older 351C rebuild using original crankshaft and pistons.
>>> Some
>>> years later it was fitted with CHI 3V heads and intake system, SS
>>> valves,
>>> 780 Holley and GTS exhaust system.
>>> When driving the cart was pulling well, but definitely was not
>>> feeling as
>>> 400-500HP car; this is what I was sort of expecting after talking to
>>> person
>>> who rebuild the engine as well as previous owner...it did not really
>>> feel as
>>> 300HP car...
>>> I had a chance to put it on the dyno at the friend's garage and got
>>> the
>>> following graph (please see the attached image); this are graphs for
>>> adjusted power on the flywheel after recalculating looses between
>>> engine and
>>> wheels.
>>> What was really interesting is that he had a chance to test 2 other
>>> panteras
>>> recently; one was a client that had rebuilt engine using some
>>> "special
>>> parts", bt I am not sure of the actual spec while the other one was
>>> black
>>> GR4 replica that is currently listed for sale in Germany and was
>>> built by
>>> Braun Motorsport:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [1]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
>>> <http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strassenzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT>
>>> enzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&
>>>
>>>
>>> __lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCEND
>>>
>>>
>>> ING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&m
>>>
>>>
>>> akeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=f
>>> alse&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT
>>>
>>> So, finally, my engine did not even reach 250HP, another rebuild
>>> pantera
>>> motor did just over 300HP while Braun pantera did very nice 389HP;
>>> there is
>>> also Ford GT40 with racing motor in there; it did 410hp but at much
>>> higher
>>> RPM.
>>> The most impressive about the Braun car is how smooth the power curve
>>> is.
>>>
>>> So, now I am wondering where to go from here; could it be that it is
>>> as
>>> simple as wrong cam choice?
>>> If going to do a rebuild is there a good configuration someone could
>>> suggest
>>> that would use CHI3V heads and intake, as I already got those?
>>>
>>> As well, I had something strange happen twice with the gearbox; it
>>> got out
>>> of the 3rd gear by itself; would someone know if this could be due to
>>> any
>>> wrong linkage adjustment?
>>>
>>> Thanks, Robert
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>> References
>>>
>>> 1.
>>> http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
>>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:10:24 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
> From: bill gaino <gaino at earthlink.net>
> To: "Himes,Terry (397C)" <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>, poca list
> <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ebay tank
> Message-ID:
> <6914447.1408461025506.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I bought the intake and it sat on my shelf a few months before I
> installed it. THEN I realized I had been HAD. It was over 2 years ago.
> Very UNLIKE a Pantera owner to misrepresent items, he sold his black
> car. Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Himes, Terry (397C)"
> Sent: Aug 19, 2014 10:32 AM
> To: bill gaino , poca list
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ebay tank
>
> Bill,
> That's not good enough. You need to contact eBay and report him as a
> fraudulent seller. I've done it and they are
> serious about keeping those people off of eBay. If you can prove it,
> make sure you send them the proof. If you do
> it will help all of us in the long run.
> IMHO
> Terry
>
> "Sometimes I think the surest signs that intelligent life
>
> exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried
>
> to contact us!"
>
> Terry W. Himes [cid:FA6EF116-AC1D-4C99-80D4-A7CA25987895]
>
> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
>
> Deep Impact Sequence Team Lead
>
> Deep Impact Spacecraft Engineer & Activity Lead
>
> Rosetta/MEX/VEX Sequence Team Lead
>
> Phone: (818) 393-6261
>
> Cell: (818) 653-8213
>
> Fax: (818) 393-3147
>
> [1]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>
> d--od-,
>
> From: bill gaino <[2]gaino at earthlink.net>
> Reply-To: bill gaino <[3]gaino at earthlink.net>
> Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 5:22 AM
> To: poca list <[4]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Ebay tank
>
> Watch this seller... I bought a Strip Dominator intake that was
> supposed to be powdercoated, a little gas spilled on it and the spray
> can silver paint washed off. If I had know I would have had it coated
> or polished BEFORE I installed it.Bill 1362
> [5]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detomaso-Pantera-Coolant-tank-/261565548189?
> pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ce685869d&vxp=mtr
> [6]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&
> fref=ts
> If you want it slick. www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [7]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
> If you want it slick. www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 2. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
> 3. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
> 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 5. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detomaso-Pantera-Coolant-tank-/261565548189?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ce685869d&vxp=mtr
> 6. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 122, Issue 19
> *****************************************
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