[DeTomaso] fuel pumps
jderyke at aol.com
jderyke at aol.com
Tue Nov 18 20:00:21 EST 2014
I agree, Will. The sort-of-ban on aftermarket filters before the pump comes from race sanctions. ALL Ford (GM, too) electric in-tank fuel pumps of all kinds since about 1987 have a small foam filter attached to the pump base. Doesn't seem to bother them sitting directly on a tank bottom, and they're cheap & easily replaced with no tools. After trying a few electric pumps over the years, about the only advantage I see for in-tank types are, they're much quieter and far easier to mount than external pumps.
FWIW, I took a factory in-tank EFI pump apart a few years ago (the internal fusible link opened and they are unrepairable), and the actual pump is frighteningly small! The 3-roller-vane pump is the size of two half-dollars stacked on top of each other and runs at up to 12,000 rpms to supply 50+ psi. I published a photo of it at one time.
For those thinking of doing any fuel system mods, a rather high proportion of car fires these days come from add-ons that somehow get loose or damaged. Road debris hits stuff whether it's hanging down or not. One owner had flying road debris crack a rubber valve stem inside a 10" Campy- talk about 'protected'.... Had there not been another Pantera behind him that saw what happened, he never woulda known what caused his sudden flat.
-----Original Message-----
From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
To: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>; Larry - Ohio Time <Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>; adin <adin at frontier.net>
Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 18, 2014 4:16 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] fuel pumps
I did an AN 90-degree on the bottom of the tank to -8, to a mongo filter,
to an electric pump.
I know, you¹re not supposed to run a filter before the pump. Sue me. I
will clean it annually, and it¹s a really big filter.
I had a RobbM mechanical, but I recently switched to Webers, which like
4-6psi. I was going to run the Robb pump with a regulator to step it down
to ~5psi, but all that crap on the front of the engine looked too red neck.
At any rate, -8 is a nice size from the bottom of the tank to the fuel
pump, and it doesn¹t hang lower than the body/frame, so I¹m not worried
about it hitting anything.
Another note is that the plug has metric threads that are very close to AN
threads. If you use the proper sized AN elbow, you don¹t need an adapter.
If I had the tank out, I might try a submersible electric pump. But
as-is, I am very happy with my results.
On 11/18/14, 5:35 PM, "Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso" <detomaso at poca.com>
wrote:
> If I recall correctly, the welded bung in the bottom of the tank
> already extends at least 1/4" up into the tank. I'm not too concerned
> with crap from the bottom of the tank. My tank was spotless inside
> before reinstalling the engine and I added a serviceable pre-filter
> between the tank and the pump and the obligatory fuel filter between
> the pump and carb as well. The only way crap will get into the tank is
> if it comes from the gas pump at a station, and I'd rather the crap
> gets removed from the bottom of my tank and trapped by the filter than
> left to collect and build up to the point of causing recurring
> problems.
> My 2-cents. YMMV.
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Larry - Ohio Time <Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
> To: 'Garth Rodericks' <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>; adin at frontier.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] fuel pumps
> The only thing I mite add is to weld a small nipple (1\2" long) onto
> the end
> of the valve going into the tank so that you are not taking the fuel
> and
> crap off the bottom of the tank into the line.
> Larry (too much old crap) - Cleveland
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[1]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Garth
> Rodericks via DeTomaso
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 3:40 PM
> To: DeTomaso Mail List; [2]adin at frontier.net
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] fuel pumps
> One more comment...
> Note that this 90-degree valve is only 2.75" top to bottom, which means
> the
> installed height is less since it threads into the drain plug bung in
> the
> bottom of the
> tank.http://images.jamestowndistributors.com/woeimages/hardware/large/5
> 6744-
> 1.jpg
> Therefore, there are no valves, hoses or fittings to dangle below the
> Pantera's chassis or frame rails to risk being broken off by speed
> bumps or
> stray road debris.
> From: Garth Rodericks <[3]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
> To: DeTomaso Mail List <[4]detomaso at poca.com>; "[5]adin at frontier.net"
> <[6]adin at frontier.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:35 PM
> Subject: fuel pumps
>
> <<< Also, it seems any pump sucking through a tiny inlet will never be
> happy. Anyone done a -8 upgrade from the tank to the pump? >>>
> Not a -8, but I plumbed mine with 3/8" (-6).
> I went with the RobbMC pump and pre-filter on my 383 stroker Cleveland
> when
> the Holley mechanical pump began leaking.I plumbed it from the bottom
> of the
> tank with a 1/2" 90-degree stainless marine fuel valve from Groco.
> [7]http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=
> 56744
> and 3/8" steel fuel line from the pump to the top of the engine where
> it
> goes through a fuel filter right before the carb inlet.
> The biggest issue, regardless of where you plumb your fuel line from is
> the
> restriction in the banjo fitting or elbow. The stock banjo fitting on
> the
> top of the tank forces all the fuel through a small orifice that's
> about
> 1/8" in diameter. And many 90-degree fittings significantly restrict
> fuel
> flow as well. I went with the 1/2" Groco Marine fitting so it wouldn't
> become the bottleneck that starves my engine for fuel.
> Cheers!Garth#4033
>
>References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 2. mailto:adin at frontier.net
> 3. mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
> 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 5. mailto:adin at frontier.net
> 6. mailto:adin at frontier.net
> 7.
>http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=56744
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>DeTomaso mailing list
>DeTomaso at poca.com
>http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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-------------- next part --------------
I agree, Will. The sort-of-ban on aftermarket filters before the pump
comes from race sanctions. ALL Ford (GM, too) electric in-tank fuel
pumps of all kinds since about 1987 have a small foam filter attached
to the pump base. Doesn't seem to bother them sitting directly on a
tank bottom, and they're cheap & easily replaced with no tools. After
trying a few electric pumps over the years, about the only advantage I
see for in-tank types are, they're much quieter and far easier to
mount than external pumps.
FWIW, I took a factory in-tank EFI pump apart a few years ago (the
internal fusible link opened and they are unrepairable), and the actual
pump is frighteningly small! The 3-roller-vane pump is the size of two
half-dollars stacked on top of each other and runs at up to 12,000 rpms
to supply 50+ psi. I published a photo of it at one time.
For those thinking of doing any fuel system mods, a rather high
proportion of car fires these days come from add-ons that somehow get
loose or damaged. Road debris hits stuff whether it's hanging down or
not. One owner had flying road debris crack a rubber valve stem inside
a 10" Campy- talk about 'protected'.... Had there not been another
Pantera behind him that saw what happened, he never woulda known what
caused his sudden flat.
-----Original Message-----
From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
To: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>; Larry - Ohio Time
<Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>; adin <adin at frontier.net>
Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 18, 2014 4:16 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] fuel pumps
I did an AN 90-degree on the bottom of the tank to -8, to a mongo filter,
to an electric pump.
I know, youA^1re not supposed to run a filter before the pump. Sue me. I
will clean it annually, and itA^1s a really big filter.
I had a RobbM mechanical, but I recently switched to Webers, which like
4-6psi. I was going to run the Robb pump with a regulator to step it down
to ~5psi, but all that crap on the front of the engine looked too red neck.
At any rate, -8 is a nice size from the bottom of the tank to the fuel
pump, and it doesnA^1t hang lower than the body/frame, so IA^1m not worried
about it hitting anything.
Another note is that the plug has metric threads that are very close to AN
threads. If you use the proper sized AN elbow, you donA^1t need an adapter.
If I had the tank out, I might try a submersible electric pump. But
as-is, I am very happy with my results.
On 11/18/14, 5:35 PM, "Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso" <[1]detomaso at poca.com>
wrote:
> If I recall correctly, the welded bung in the bottom of the tank
> already extends at least 1/4" up into the tank. I'm not too concerned
> with crap from the bottom of the tank. My tank was spotless inside
> before reinstalling the engine and I added a serviceable pre-filter
> between the tank and the pump and the obligatory fuel filter between
> the pump and carb as well. The only way crap will get into the tank is
> if it comes from the gas pump at a station, and I'd rather the crap
> gets removed from the bottom of my tank and trapped by the filter than
> left to collect and build up to the point of causing recurring
> problems.
> My 2-cents. YMMV.
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Larry - Ohio Time <[2]Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
> To: 'Garth Rodericks' <[3]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>; [4]adin at frontier.net
> Cc: [5]detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] fuel pumps
> The only thing I mite add is to weld a small nipple (1\2" long) onto
> the end
> of the valve going into the tank so that you are not taking the fuel
> and
> crap off the bottom of the tank into the line.
> Larry (too much old crap) - Cleveland
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:[1]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Garth
> Rodericks via DeTomaso
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 3:40 PM
> To: DeTomaso Mail List; [2][7]adin at frontier.net
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] fuel pumps
> One more comment...
> Note that this 90-degree valve is only 2.75" top to bottom, which means
> the
> installed height is less since it threads into the drain plug bung in
> the
> bottom of the
> tank.[8]http://images.jamestowndistributors.com/woeimages/hardware/large/5
> 6744-
> 1.jpg
> Therefore, there are no valves, hoses or fittings to dangle below the
> Pantera's chassis or frame rails to risk being broken off by speed
> bumps or
> stray road debris.
> From: Garth Rodericks <[3][9]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
> To: DeTomaso Mail List <[4][10]detomaso at poca.com>; "[5][11]adin at frontier.net
"
> <[6][12]adin at frontier.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:35 PM
> Subject: fuel pumps
>
> <<< Also, it seems any pump sucking through a tiny inlet will never be
> happy. Anyone done a -8 upgrade from the tank to the pump? >>>
> Not a -8, but I plumbed mine with 3/8" (-6).
> I went with the RobbMC pump and pre-filter on my 383 stroker Cleveland
> when
> the Holley mechanical pump began leaking.I plumbed it from the bottom
> of the
> tank with a 1/2" 90-degree stainless marine fuel valve from Groco.
> [7][13]http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=
> 56744
> and 3/8" steel fuel line from the pump to the top of the engine where
> it
> goes through a fuel filter right before the carb inlet.
> The biggest issue, regardless of where you plumb your fuel line from is
> the
> restriction in the banjo fitting or elbow. The stock banjo fitting on
> the
> top of the tank forces all the fuel through a small orifice that's
> about
> 1/8" in diameter. And many 90-degree fittings significantly restrict
> fuel
> flow as well. I went with the 1/2" Groco Marine fitting so it wouldn't
> become the bottleneck that starves my engine for fuel.
> Cheers!Garth#4033
>
>References
>
> 1. [14]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 2. [15]mailto:adin at frontier.net
> 3. [16]mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
> 4. [17]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 5. [18]mailto:adin at frontier.net
> 6. [19]mailto:adin at frontier.net
> 7.
>[20]http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=56744
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>DeTomaso mailing list
>[21]DeTomaso at poca.com
>[22]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[23]DeTomaso at poca.com
[24]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
2. mailto:Larry at ohiotimecorp.com
3. mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
4. mailto:adin at frontier.net
5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
6. mailto:[1]detomaso-bounces at poca.com?
7. mailto:adin at frontier.net
8. http://images.jamestowndistributors.com/woeimages/hardware/large/5
9. mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
11. mailto:adin at frontier.net
12. mailto:adin at frontier.net
13. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=
14. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com?
15. mailto:adin at frontier.net?
16. mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com?
17. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
18. mailto:adin at frontier.net?
19. mailto:adin at frontier.net?
20. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=56744
21. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
22. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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