[DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
Will Kooiman
will.kooiman at gmail.com
Thu Nov 6 20:54:39 EST 2014
Actually, if the shear pin is fully sheared, you can turn the rotor by
hand. It turns the oil pump, but it doesn¹t pump up pressure until you do
a couple of turns.
Mine sheared many years ago, and that was the test.
If it partially shears, though, it will run rough, you won¹t be able to
turn the rotor. You could check the timing, but the balancer may have
slipped.
A better check is to remove the distributor. Removing the distributor is
only slightly more work than removing the bulkhead, cap, etc.
On 11/6/14, 10:48 PM, "doug351c" <doug351c at gmail.com> wrote:
>Brian,
>
>I would think the oil pump would be quite hard to turn via the rotor by
>hand
>against the oiling system in the engine.
>Whenever I prime a new engine it requires my 1/2 HP drill motor to turn it
>and its very hard to hold the drill due to the torque required.
>Have you ever personlly tried to turn a distributor shaft in a primed
>engine
>with a broken roll pin by hand turning the rotor?
>Does anyone else have experience with trying this?
>
>Doug
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Braaten [mailto:braatensauto at qwest.net]
>Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 6:17 PM
>To: doug351c at gmail.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
>
>
>Guys, the sheared pin on the dist gear has nothing to do with turning the
>oil pump shaft. If pin is sheared you will be able to turn oil pump shaft
>by
>turning the rotor. The bottom of the dist shaft is hex shaped like the oil
>pump shaft.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: doug351c
>Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 7:44 PM
>To: Charles McCall ; detomaso at poca.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
>
>Charlie,
>
>You can't tell if your distributor pin has failed by trying to turn the
>distributor cap or the rotor by hand.
>
>The distibutor cap and body are held fast to the engine block by the
>distributor clamp/bolt under the distributor body. If you remove this
>clamp's bolt, the distributor body will be free to turn which is how you
>set
>your timing.
>
>The distributor's main shaft drives the oil pump so even if the pin is
>sheared, the shaft is prevented from being hand-turned by the rotor. The
>rotor may feel like its turning if you try it but what you'll be feeling
>is
>the mechanical spark advance mechanism which lies between the rotor and
>the
>distributor main shaft. The advance mechanism will only let you turn the
>rotor about 10 degrees back and forth.
>
>The best way to know for sure if your roll pin is bad is to take the
>distributor out, drive the pin out of the gear, and inpect it. But you'd
>better know how to static time your car or let someone else do it who
>knows
>how.
>
>If the rotor is turning when you crank it, you can at least check for
>spark
>as follows:
> Put the cap back on.
> Remove one of the rear spark plugs.
> Reconnect its plug wire.
> Use an insulated pliers to hold the plug's ground electrode against one
>of
>the engine's bolts.
> Have someone crank the engine via the key.
> Look at the plug and see if you're gettting spark.
>
>Doug Braun
>blue 73L #5505
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com]On Behalf Of Charles
>McCall
>Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 11:17 AM
>To: 'Larry - Ohio Time'; janne at maki-petaja.fi; detomaso at poca.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
>
>
>Larry - my first thought was a flaky accelerator pump on the carb, since
>one
>of the symptoms was stumbling upon opening the throttle. The pump pumps
>,so
>I guess that is eliminated.
>
>Another suggestion from the Crowd was that my shear pin had partially
>sheared and my timing was slightly off. I suppose that this is another
>reasonable possibility. Hence my question if there is a way to check this
>without a timing light, since I don't have one.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Larry - Ohio Time [mailto:Larry at ohiotimecorp.com]
>Sent: jueves, 6 de noviembre de 2014 20:12
>To: 'Charles McCall'; janne at maki-petaja.fi; detomaso at poca.com
>Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
>
>Charlie,
>
>If you still had points you could do a static timing, but you need to get
>a
>light.
>
>The cap being loose or tight has nothing to do with the dis pin.
>
>I think you were talking about the accelerator pump on the carb??
>
>Larry - Cleveland
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Charles
>McCall
>Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 1:42 PM
>To: janne at maki-petaja.fi; detomaso at poca.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
>
>Hi all
>My power valve injects fuel as it should, so that's one possible cause
>eliminated.
>
>I don't have a timing light - are there any tricks to see if my timing has
>shifted without a timing light?
>
>If my shear pin is starting to fail, would I be able to move the
>distributor
>cap back and forth, or really only if it has catastrophically failed?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Janne
>Mäki-Petäjä
>Sent: martes, 4 de noviembre de 2014 7:29
>To: detomaso at poca.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
>
>I'd first suspect the electricals as well. It should start normally with
>the gas in the fuel bowls. Easy to check the primary bowl fuel level
>though.
>
>Water in the dizzy cap, or plug wire(s) gone bad would be good first
>steps. Plug wire resistance is easily measured with multimeter.
>I've had similar weird MSD problem once, when the distributor wire had
>been laying on the block and worn through the insulator. Grounded the
>dizzy signal occasionally, when it moved around.
>
>-Janne
>
>3.11.2014 16.09, michael at michaelshortt.com kirjoitti:
>> Water in the dist cap sounds more likely.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Nov 3, 2014 8:48 AM, "Charles McCall"
>><[1]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> A A Thanks Jeff. It isn't unusually humid here and the car is
>> always stored
>> A A indoors. As I was writing this, however, it occured to me
>>that
>> it isn't
>> A A imposible that some wA!ter may have entered the air cleaner
>>and
>> dropped
>> A A into the carb while washing the car. I'm usually pretty
>>careful
>> with
>> A A where I aim the hose, but I couldn't swear that the engine
>> stayed dry,
>> A A or when opening the decklid when wet, some wA!ter may have
>>run
>> off near
>> A A the cleaner...
>> A A A
>> A A I will take the air cleaner off and see if I see a healthy
>> squirt from
>> A A the acclerator pump. I don't think it would be fuel pump or
>> clogged
>> A A fuel filter, as it stumbles under trailing throttle as well,
>>it
>> it can
>> A A provide enough fuel for sustainted 115mph running
>> A A A
>> A A Could it be electrical? My last MSD 6AL gave some really
>>weird
>> symptoms
>> A A that I thought were carb-related before I changed the box and
>> all my
>> A A problems went away. I'll go step-by-step
>> A A On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:55 AM,
>><[1][2]jgkrenton at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>> A A Charlie:
>> A A How's the weather??
>> A A Your problem sort of sounds like it could be water in the
>>fuel
>> to me.A
>> A A Just a drop can be a problem and once you get it in there, it
>> can hang
>> A A around a long time.A
>> A A As already mentioned, do the usual things to make sure you
>> didn't
>> A A "introduce" the problem during the recent tuning.AA Take the
>> air
>> A A cleaner off and see if that makes any difference.AA Check
>>the
>> timing
>> A A (yes, a pain on the Pantera). Make sure the accelerator pump
>>is
>> A A squirting. Check the fuel pressure/fuel pump etc.AA I have
>> also been
>> A A recently bit by a bad coil and a bad fuel pump.AA Don't rule
>> anything
>> A A out.
>> A A Then dump some "fuel dryer" in the tank and run it a bit to
>>see
>> if that
>> A A helps.AA Here in Seattle, water in the fuel is a common
>> problem.
>> A A The fuel dryer should help, but there is also the tried and
>> true "rag
>> A A tune".
>> A A You have to be careful with this one, but the idea is to rev
>> the engine
>> A A a bit by hand with the air cleaner off.A AA Then when the
>> engine is
>> A A reving a bit, maybe 2500 RPM, shove a big rag over the carb
>>for
>> just a
>> A A second. (The air-horns, choke, secondary venturies will keep
>> the rag
>> A A from being sucked into the engine). The rag acts like a
>>massive
>> choke
>> A A and the engine will smoke and die if you leave the rag there
>> for more
>> A A than a few seconds.AA But what this does is raise the full
>> engine
>> A A vacuum up above the throttle plates and jets/ bleeds to the
>> A A air-horn/rag level.AA This "extra" vacuum will draw any
>>water
>> out of
>> A A the jets/bleeds where the "normal" vacuum often is not strong
>> enough to
>> A A pull any water out of the jets.
>> A A If your carb is a Holley, you can pull the float chambers off
>> too and
>> A A make sure they don't have water in them....
>> A A Good luck.
>> A A Jeff/2467
>> A A
>> A
>>__________________________________________________________________
>> A A From: "McCall, Charles" <[2][3]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
>> A A To: "Mark Charlton" <[3][4]pantera01826 at rogers.com>
>> A A Cc: "DeTomaso Mail List" <[4][5]detomaso at poca.com>
>> A A Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 11:46:48 AM
>> A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
>>suggestions
>> A A Thanks Mark, but I used 3 full tanks of gas in the past 2
>>days
>> :-o
>> A A The problem has gotten slowly worse, I think.
>> A A -----Original Message-----
>> A A From: Mark Charlton [mailto:[5][6]pantera01826 at rogers.com]
>> A A Sent: domingo, 2 de noviembre de 2014 20:43
>> A A To: Charles McCall
>> A A Cc: DeTomaso Mail List
>> A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
>>suggestions
>> A A Charlie,
>> A A I had a very similar experience with my car during a long
>>tour
>> in
>> A A western
>> A A Canada. We checked everything and concluded it must be a carb
>> issue.
>> A A After a
>> A A full tear-down of the carb revealed nothing wrong at all, I
>> filled the
>> A A car
>> A A (it was 3/4 empty) and the car ran fine again. We concluded
>> that a
>> A A stale
>> A A batch of 94 octane gas (not commonly available) caused the
>> issue. With
>> A A any
>> A A luck that will be your case too I hope.
>> A A Mark Charlton
>> A A [6][7]pantera01826 at rogers.com
>> A A On Nov 2, 2014, at 2:20 PM, Charles McCall
>> <[7][8]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
>> A A wrote:
>> A A > I haven't checked timing, but wouldn't that make the engine
>> run hot?
>> A A >
>> A A > Would that explain the stumble? It might explain why it
>> doesn't feel
>> A A as
>> A A > crisp as it should
>> A A >
>> A A > -----Original Message-----
>> A A > From: thomas [mailto:[8][9]thomas at hax.se]
>> A A > Sent: domingo, 2 de noviembre de 2014 20:18
>> A A > To: Charles McCall
>> A A > Cc: <[9][10]detomaso at poca.com>
>> A A > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
>> suggestions
>> A A >
>> A A > The distributor gear pin?
>> A A >
>> A A > Checked timing?
>> A A >
>> A A >
>> A A >> 2 nov 2014 kl. 20:13 skrev Charles McCall
>> A A <[10][11]charlesmccall at gmail.com>:
>> A A >>
>> A A >> A Hi all
>> A A >>
>> A A >>
>> A A >> A I just got back from a Supercar event in northern Spain
>> with 35
>> A A cars
>> A A >> A attending - Lambo, Ferrari, Viper, Porsche, and, as
>>usual,
>> a lone
>> A A >> A DeTomaso!
>> A A >>
>> A A >>
>> A A >> A The highlight for me without a doubt was an 8-minute
>>burst
>> on the
>> A A >> A highway with the police clearing the way for us,
>>cruising
>> at a
>> A A steady
>> A A >> A GPS-indicated 180 k/hr in a 35 car convoy... the people
>> out for a
>> A A >> A Sunday drive must have had their minds boggled...
>> A A >>
>> A A >>
>> A A >> A Anyway, my engine is not happy. This morning in the
>>hotel
>> parking
>> A A lot I
>> A A >> A really thought that we'd have to skip today's event
>> because it
>> A A wouldn't
>> A A >> A start and didn't sound like it was even thinking about
>> starting.
>> A A Took
>> A A >> A probably 5 minutes of crank-wait-crank-wait before it
>> fired.
>> A A Yesterday
>> A A >> A at the gas station it took 2-3 minutes to start,
>>something
>> that
>> A A has
>> A A >> A never, ever happened before. It is really hard to
>>describe
>> the
>> A A problem
>> A A >> A so much of it is "feel", but I'll do my best.
>> A A >>
>> A A >>
>> A A >> A A few weeks ago I noticed that the engine would tend to
>> stumble if
>> A A I
>> A A >> A would floor the throttle, then clear its throat and
>>pull.
>> For
>> A A example,
>> A A >> A I like to heel-and-toe, just because, and when blipping
>> the
>> A A throttle it
>> A A >> A would stumble instead of rev. The engine also felt a
>> little
>> A A rougher, as
>> A A >> A though it vibrated more than I remembered it. I don't
>> remember if
>> A A this
>> A A >> A was before or after I did a short tune-up, by adjusting
>> the valve
>> A A lash
>> A A >> A (I have mechanical lifters), and cleaning the K&N air
>> filter by
>> A A >> A applying K&N filter oil, etc. or if it is irrelevant.
>>So I
>> was
>> A A messing
>> A A >> A around in the engine bay recently...
>> A A >>
>> A A >>
>> A A >> A This weekend the engine felt considerably worse. It felt
>> like it
>> A A would
>> A A >> A stumble under partial throttle as well. It would
>>stumble a
>> little
>> A A bit
>> A A >> A under trailing throttle going downhill as well, so I
>>don't
>> think
>> A A it is
>> A A >> A a clogged fuel filter.
>> A A >>
>> A A >>
>> A A >> A Oil temp is perfect. Oil pressure is perfect. Water temp
>> is
>> A A perfect.
>> A A >> A The engine idles perfectly. But if you floor the gas
>>from
>> idle,
>> A A it'll
>> A A >> A stall. The engine doesn't feel crisp, it feels bloated
>>and
>> soft,
>> A A if
>> A A >> A that makes sense. It feels rough, and it feels like it
>> A A occasionally
>> A A >> A stumbles under constant throttle at highway speed. It
>> pulls hard
>> A A when
>> A A >> A accelerating, but I don't think as hard as it used to,
>>or
>> as high
>> A A (I
>> A A >> A have a 6500 rpm limiting chip in the MSD that it used to
>> pull very
>> A A >> A easily to).
>> A A >>
>> A A >>
>> A A >> A Suggestions for where to begin looking? And other info
>> that would
>> A A help
>> A A >> A in troubleshooting?
>> A A >>
>> A A >>
>> A A >> !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
>> A A >> _______________________________________________
>> A A >>
>> A A >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> A A >>
>> A A >> DeTomaso mailing list
>> A A >> [11][12]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> A A >> [12][13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> A A >>
>> A A >>
>> A A >> !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
>> A A >
>> A A >
>> A A > _______________________________________________
>> A A >
>> A A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> A A >
>> A A > DeTomaso mailing list
>> A A > [13][14]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> A A > [14][15]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> A A _______________________________________________
>> A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> A A DeTomaso mailing list
>> A A [15][16]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> A A [16][17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> References
>> A A 1. mailto:[18]jgkrenton at comcast.net
>> A A 2. mailto:[19]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> A A 3. mailto:[20]pantera01826 at rogers.com
>> A A 4. mailto:[21]detomaso at poca.com
>> A A 5. mailto:[22]pantera01826 at rogers.com
>> A A 6. mailto:[23]pantera01826 at rogers.com
>> A A 7. mailto:[24]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> A A 8. mailto:[25]thomas at hax.se
>> A A 9. mailto:[26]detomaso at poca.com
>> A 10. mailto:[27]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> A 11. mailto:[28]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> A 12. [29]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> A 13. mailto:[30]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> A 14. [31]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> A 15. mailto:[32]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> A 16. [33]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [34]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [35]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 2. mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
>> 3. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 4. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
>> 5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 6. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
>> 7. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
>> 8. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 9. mailto:thomas at hax.se
>> 10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 11. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 15. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 16. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 18. mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
>> 19. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 20. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
>> 21. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 22. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
>> 23. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
>> 24. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 25. mailto:thomas at hax.se
>> 26. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 27. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 28. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 29. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 30. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 31. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 32. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 33. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 34. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 35. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>DeTomaso mailing list
>DeTomaso at poca.com
>http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>DeTomaso mailing list
>DeTomaso at poca.com
>http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>DeTomaso mailing list
>DeTomaso at poca.com
>http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>DeTomaso mailing list
>DeTomaso at poca.com
>http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
More information about the DeTomaso
mailing list