[DeTomaso] Detomaso Factory Race Car on Ebay

"Jürgen M. Wilms" juergen.wilms at cox.net
Fri May 9 20:12:43 EDT 2014 

To me the real question is this:

Should this car be called a "deTomaso" when it was not built by the factory?

Certainly, if I took a Porsche chassis (with or without the factory's permission) and built my own race car, I would never be allowed to call it a Porsche. Should different rules apply if the manufacturer no longer exists? So if I find a piece from a Duesenberg and build a Group C race car around it, can I call it a "Duesenberg Group C"? 

What do you guys think?


On 09.05.2014, at 16:28, jderyke at aol.com wrote:

>   Description from P Olczac's book on DeTomaso race cars (pg 436): "A
>   Gr-5 (was) built by Sala/Malverdi for (drivers) Michangeli &
>   Pietromarchi from a new chassis (with no serial number) given to them
>   by the factory in 1977. In 1981, the (Gr-5) car was sent to Auto Elite
>   Modena and modified (further) into Gr-C specifications."
>   In 1977, a 'new chassis' could be literally anything since it was 3 yrs
>   after Ford left town and certainly after any left-over Vignale
>   stampings had been used up building post-Ford-era Pantera GTS road
>   cars. Photos (pg 138) of the build-in-progress at Auto Elite shows the
>   tub resembles a racing GR-4/GT-4 with the definitive row of large
>   lightening holes in the inner rocker panels. But they could have been
>   added by a specialty racing shop at some point in its career. Little
>   else is recognizable as 'Pantera' except the windshield opening and the
>   front firewall. Whether you think the remains of this 'thing' is a
>   Pantera or not depends on your viewpoint, but it did start out as one.
>   FWIW- J DeRyke
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Gray Gregory <rgg at gregorycook.com>
>   To: L GRAY <tipo874a at msn.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>   Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>; michael <michael at michaelshortt.com>;
>   Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
>   Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 3:19 pm
>   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Detomaso Factory Race Car on Ebay
> Who knows but there would be no need for crash tests or any other type of DOT
> compliance efforts on a race car, as for the chassis nm, most old race cars have
> 
> them. I assume it's just a good way for the factory to keep track of parts and
> labor costs allocated to each car as well as keep track of future race results.
> 
> Gray
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [[1]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of L GRAY
> Sent: Friday, May 09, 2014 3:18 PM
> To: Ken Green
> Cc: [2]detomaso at poca.com; [3]michael at michaelshortt.com; Tomas Gunnarsson
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Detomaso Factory Race Car on Ebay
> 
> Don't have the answer to that, just supposition.
>    It's possible it was numbered as the first car of a possible new run if
> customer race cars???? ...   just thinking out loud here & I know how scary that
> 
> sounds!!!!!!
> 
> Leslie A. Gray
> 
>> On May 9, 2014, at 12:47 PM, "Ken Green" <[4]kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Here is something:
>> 
>> [5]http://silodrome.com/1977-detomaso-pantera-racer/
>> 
>> Says it was built by the factory
>> From: "[6]michael at michaelshortt.com" <[7]michael at michaelshortt.com>
>> To: L GRAY <[8]tipo874a at msn.com>
>> Cc: "[9]detomaso at poca.com" <[10]detomaso at poca.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <[11]guso
> n at home.se>
>> Sent: Friday, May 9, 2014 12:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Detomaso Factory Race Car on Ebay
>> 
>>  So what did they do, just grab a chassis from a stack at DeTomaso and
>>  say,
>>  Here you go, oh wait, you need a title, how about #00001 one, we
>>  crashed the first one, so it's available.
>>  Michael
>> 
>>  On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 3:33 PM, L GRAY <[1][12]tipo874a at msn.com> wrote:
>> 
>>    Tomas is correct. It IS the one off Gr-C car belonging to the
>>    Adlers.
>>    A  A  A There's actually a partial factory Pantera tub under all
>>    that body work.
>>    A  A I went to California several months ago to inspect the car for
>>    a potential buyer. Very interesting car.
>>    A  A  It does have its own serial number, #0001, and the car is not
>>    to be confused with one of the 14 factory Gr-4/GT-4 racers built in
>>    the early 1970's.
>>    Leslie A. Gray
>> 
>>> On May 9, 2014, at 11:53 AM, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[2][13]guson at home.se>
>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A  Isn't it clear that the car is a one-off group C car, chassis
>>  number
>>> A  0001, not a Pantera?
>>> 
>>> A  Tomas
>>> A  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>>> A  A  A  From: [3][14]michael at michaelshortt.com
>>  [[4][15]michael at michaelshortt.com]
>>> A  Sent: 9/5/2014 6:30:01 PM
>>> A  To: [5][16]tmshinro at aol.com
>>> A  Cc: [6][17]detomaso at poca.com
>>> A  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Detomaso Factory Race Car on Ebay
>>> A  If there is a Detomaso Pantera under there somewhere, I didn't see
>>  it.
>>> A  Sure it has the 351 and the ZF, not clear photos of the floorpan.
>>> A  I'm sure somebody knows,
>>> A  If it was a real Pantera, I'd love to have the serial number.
>>> A  Michael
>>>> A  On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Tom Shinrock
>>  <[7][18]tmshinro at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Saw this today.
>>> A
>>  [8][19]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-Group-C-Race-/111349107166?ssPag
>>  eNa
>>>> me=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
>>>> Never knew such an animal existed.
>>>> Tom
>>>> 5186
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> A  --
>>> A  Michael L. Shortt
>>> A  Savannah, Georgia
>>> A  [11][22]www.michaelshortt.com
>>> A  [12][23]michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> A  [13]912-232-9390
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>>    Gratis nu
>>> 
>>> References
>>> 
>>> A  1.
>>    [14][24]http://adserver.adtech.de/?adlink|3.0|1297|4819575|1|16|AdId=977
>>    6362;BnId=1;link=[25]http://rms.admeta.com/public/transfer.asp?sitebanne
>>    r_id=4723912
>> 
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>>  --
>>  Michael L. Shortt
>>  Savannah, Georgia
>>  [17][28]www.michaelshortt.com
>>  [18][29]michael at michaelshortt.com
>>  912-232-9390
>>  A
>>  This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>>  Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>>  privileged.A  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
>>  notified
>>  that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>>  communication is strictly prohibited.A  Please reply to the sender that
>>  you
>>  have received this message in error, then delete it.A  Thank you
>> 
>> References
>> 
>>  1. [30]mailto:tipo874a at msn.com
>>  2. [31]mailto:guson at home.se
>>  3. [32]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>>  4. [33]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>>  5. [34]mailto:tmshinro at aol.com
>>  6. [35]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>>  7. [36]mailto:tmshinro at aol.com
>>  8. [37]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-Group-C-Race-/111349107166?ssPage
> Na
>>  9. [38]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>>  10. [39]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>  11. [40]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>>  12. [41]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>>  13. tel:912-232-9390
>>  14. [42]http://adserver.adtech.de/?adlink|3.0|1297|4819575|1|16|AdId=9776362
> ;BnId=1;link=http://rms.admeta.com/public/transfer.asp?sitebanner_id=4723912
>>  15. [43]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>>  16. [44]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>  17. [45]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>>  18. [46]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
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> 
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [49]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [50]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com?
>   2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   3. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>   4. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
>   5. http://silodrome.com/1977-detomaso-pantera-racer/
>   6. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>   7. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>   8. mailto:tipo874a at msn.com
>   9. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>  10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>  11. mailto:guson at home.se
>  12. mailto:tipo874a at msn.com
>  13. mailto:guson at home.se
>  14. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>  15. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>  16. mailto:tmshinro at aol.com
>  17. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>  18. mailto:tmshinro at aol.com
>  19. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-Group-C-Race-/111349107166?ssPag
>  20. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  21. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  22. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>  23. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>  24. http://adserver.adtech.de/?adlink|3.0|1297|4819575|1|16|AdId=977
>  25. http://rms.admeta.com/public/transfer.asp?sitebanne
>  26. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  27. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  28. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>  29. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>  30. mailto:tipo874a at msn.com?
>  31. mailto:guson at home.se?
>  32. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com?
>  33. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com?
>  34. mailto:tmshinro at aol.com?
>  35. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
>  36. mailto:tmshinro at aol.com?
>  37. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-Group-C-Race-/111349107166?ssPageNa
>  38. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
>  39. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  40. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>  41. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com?
>  42. http://adserver.adtech.de/?adlink|3.0|1297|4819575|1|16|AdId=9776362;BnId=1;link=http://rms.admeta.com/public/transfer.asp?sitebanner_id=4723912
>  43. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
>  44. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  45. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>  46. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com?
>  47. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  48. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  49. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  50. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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