[DeTomaso] Fw: Cleveland engine question

Boyd Casey boyd411 at gmail.com
Thu May 8 02:41:17 EDT 2014


Dear Tom,
My car has roller rockers and seems to have a hotter the stock cam. I don't
know for sure because I have never been inside the engine and the cars
former owner died and I purchased it from his widow. So I never got to ask
all the questions I would have liked to have answers too. It appears now
that I will have no choice but to delve deeper into the inner sanctum of my
motor and all will be revealed! This is not the way I wanted to find out!
Thanks for you helpful information!
Boyd


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se> wrote:

> I read about the index pin shearing, causing engine damage, while I was
> assembling my latest build (2005). It appeared to only affect roller cams,
> and some suggested one should use two pins.
>
> The pin is really only for indexing, it should not carry the load. The
> gear should be clamped hard enough to the cam through the bolt to carry the
> load.
>
> When I assembled the engine, with a Crane hydraulic roller cam, Rollmaster
> cam chain/gear and a new ARP cam gear bolt, but without the fuel pump
> excenter, I noticed that the cam was not drilled out deep enough for the
> shank of the bolt, so when I tightened the bolt with my fingers the gear
> would wiggle, completely loose! When I removed the bolt and mounted the
> fuel pump excenter, the gear would just be tight enough to not be
> noticeable loose.
>
> My theory is that people that use roller cams, ARP bolt kits, and the fuel
> pump excenter may not notice that the bolt shank stops the gear from being
> attached tight enough, despite torquing the bolt properly.
>
> The washer that is included in the ARP kit is only half as thick as the
> stock Ford washer, and the unthreaded shank is longer. The cast iron Crane
> (and Ford) cams are also drilled out deeper for the shank, so it is not a
> problem there either.
>
> I confronted Crane with my findings, but the response was that they had
> made these cams for 50 years (yeah, right) without issues.
>
> I solved the problem by getting another bolt, with a shorter unthreaded
> shank.
>
> Thomas
>
>
> 2014-05-08 05:30, mark skwarek skrev:
>
>>     For me I have a gear driven cam and the pin that drives the cam
>> sheared
>>     resulting the two broken  valves.   Hopefully my pics will come
>>     through.
>>     Mark
>>     On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:24 PM, Will Kooiman
>>     <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     I would be very surprised if there isn't interference.
>>     But the timing chain rarely breaks.  If it jumps a tooth, you are
>>     probably
>>     still safe, even with a mild performance cam.
>>     On 5/7/14 10:57 PM, "Boyd Casey" <[1]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     >  Do Cleveland engines (generally) have valves that will hit the
>>     pistons
>>     >  if the timing chain breaks? I assume if you have a high lift cam
>> and
>>     or
>>     >  high top pistons you could have interference but what about a stock
>>     >  engine?A
>>     >  Boyd
>>     >_______________________________________________
>>     >
>>     >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>     >
>>     >DeTomaso mailing list
>>     >[2]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>     >[3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>     DeTomaso mailing list
>>     [4]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>     [5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> References
>>
>>     1. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>>     2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>>     3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>     4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>>     5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> !DSPAM:536afa64128351374015390!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>
> --
> Real life:   Thomas Törnblom             Email:    thomas at hax.se
> Snail mail:  Banvallsvägen 14            Phone:    +46 18 32 31 18
>              S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden  Mobile:   +46 76 209 8320
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
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> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
   Dear Tom,
   My car has roller rockers and seems to have a hotter the stock cam. I
   don't know for sure because I have never been inside the engine and the
   cars former owner died and I purchased it from his widow. So I never
   got to ask all the questions I would have liked to have answers too. It
   appears now that I will have no choice but to delve deeper into the
   inner sanctum of my motor and all will be revealed! This is not the way
   I wanted to find out!
   Thanks for you helpful information!
   Boyd

   On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Thomas Tornblom <[1]thomas at hax.se>
   wrote:

     I read about the index pin shearing, causing engine damage, while I
     was assembling my latest build (2005). It appeared to only affect
     roller cams, and some suggested one should use two pins.
     The pin is really only for indexing, it should not carry the load.
     The gear should be clamped hard enough to the cam through the bolt
     to carry the load.
     When I assembled the engine, with a Crane hydraulic roller cam,
     Rollmaster cam chain/gear and a new ARP cam gear bolt, but without
     the fuel pump excenter, I noticed that the cam was not drilled out
     deep enough for the shank of the bolt, so when I tightened the bolt
     with my fingers the gear would wiggle, completely loose! When I
     removed the bolt and mounted the fuel pump excenter, the gear would
     just be tight enough to not be noticeable loose.
     My theory is that people that use roller cams, ARP bolt kits, and
     the fuel pump excenter may not notice that the bolt shank stops the
     gear from being attached tight enough, despite torquing the bolt
     properly.
     The washer that is included in the ARP kit is only half as thick as
     the stock Ford washer, and the unthreaded shank is longer. The cast
     iron Crane (and Ford) cams are also drilled out deeper for the
     shank, so it is not a problem there either.
     I confronted Crane with my findings, but the response was that they
     had made these cams for 50 years (yeah, right) without issues.
     I solved the problem by getting another bolt, with a shorter
     unthreaded shank.
     Thomas
     2014-05-08 05:30, mark skwarek skrev:

   A  A  For me I have a gear driven cam and the pin that drives the cam
   sheared
   A  A  resulting the two broken A valves. A  Hopefully my pics will come
   A  A  through.
   A  A  Mark
   A  A  On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:24 PM, Will Kooiman
   A  A  <[2]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
   A  A  I would be very surprised if there isn't interference.
   A  A  But the timing chain rarely breaks. A If it jumps a tooth, you
   are
   A  A  probably
   A  A  still safe, even with a mild performance cam.

   A  A  On 5/7/14 10:57 PM, "Boyd Casey" <[1][3]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
   A  A  > A Do Cleveland engines (generally) have valves that will hit
   the
   A  A  pistons
   A  A  > A if the timing chain breaks? I assume if you have a high lift
   cam and
   A  A  or
   A  A  > A high top pistons you could have interference but what about a
   stock
   A  A  > A engine?A
   A  A  > A Boyd
   A  A  >_______________________________________________
   A  A  >
   A  A  >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   A  A  >
   A  A  >DeTomaso mailing list

     A  A  >[2][4]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  >[3][5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   A  A  _______________________________________________
   A  A  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   A  A  DeTomaso mailing list

     A  A  [4][6]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  [5][7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     References
     A  A  1. mailto:[8]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  A  2. mailto:[9]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  3. [10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  4. mailto:[11]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  5. [12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     !DSPAM:536afa64128351374015390!

   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [13]DeTomaso at poca.com
   [14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

     !DSPAM:536afa64128351374015390!

     --
     Real life: A  Thomas TAP:rnblom A  A  A  A  A  A  Email: A
     A [15]thomas at hax.se
     Snail mail: A BanvallsvACURgen 14 A  A  A  A  A  A Phone: A
     A [16]+46 18 32 31 18
     A  A  A  A  A  A  A S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden A Mobile: A  [17]+46
     76 209 8320

   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [18]DeTomaso at poca.com
   [19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

References

   1. mailto:thomas at hax.se
   2. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
   3. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
   4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   8. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
   9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  13. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  15. mailto:thomas at hax.se
  16. tel:%2B46%2018%2032%2031%2018
  17. tel:%2B46%2076%20209%208320
  18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com


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