[DeTomaso] Fw: Cleveland engine question

jgkrenton at comcast.net jgkrenton at comcast.net
Thu May 8 01:46:45 EDT 2014



Boyd: 



Since no big pieces seem to have left the block, t he first thing to do is pull a valve cover and the distributor cap.  Then hit the starter and turn the motor over (which you report is still turning??). 



If the timing chain has failed, the valves and distributor will not move.  If the distributor gear/pin has failed, then the valves will move but the distributor will not turn. C heck the timing too.  If the gear/pin failed the distributor may turn but be way out of time...  ( check: timing, compression, spark, fuel, one of them is missing....) 



Good luck.. 



Jeff/2467 





----- Original Message -----


From: "Boyd Casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com> 
To: "mark skwarek" <ehpantera at yahoo.com> 
Cc: "Detomaso List" <detomaso at poca.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:06:39 PM 
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fw:  Cleveland engine question 

Well as the more astute among may have already guessed I had an "episode" 
this evening while giving my pantera a workout after getting my new 
CNC sssleeve clutch master, 
ss sleeve long throw slave, new 90 amp alternator and new harmonic 
balanceralong with new front seal and pulley. My car was running and 
sounding 
great! I loved the new master and slave set up and even though the expected 
increase in clutch pedal effort materialised (as promised) I really liked 
the pedal resistance and the new longer throw slave really seemed to make 
the clutch engage ( it was like it slammed shut) the rear wheels seemed to 
hook up better and I was really enjoying my drive. I was actually enjoying 
it a little too much because I was in 5th and on it hard when all of a 
sudden there was a loud boom and a sudden loss of all power. At first the 
car was still in gear and the engine was turning due to the forward 
momentum of the car. There were no cylinders firing just the lub dub sound 
of  an engine turning with out ignition  and a substantial amount of smoke 
was visible in my rear view as well as a funky smell which I hope was fuel 
and air vaporising as it traveld through the hot engine with no spark to 
ignite it. I was very close to my exit so I put the car in neutral and 
rolled off the Parkway exit ramp.Once stopped I called a buddy of mine who 
lives near by and who owns a flat bed. He is also an avid car collector and 
restores classic cars as a hobby. He suggested I do a few things like try 
to restart the car and when it wouldn't start he suggested turning the key 
to start with the car in gear to see if it was locked up. When I turned the 
starter in first the car moved forward so at least it didn't appear to be a 
complete catastrophic failure ( but I guess that depends on your own 
definition of "catastrophic failure" The way I was feeling a broken timing 
chain or sheared distributor gear didn't seem as bad a a completely blown 
engine. (like a rod through the block kind of blown engine). 
So for those of you in the know whats the best way and order to check if 
it's a sheared pin or a jumped or broken timing chain? The thing that 
really made me think it was more then just a sheared distributor pin was 
the loud boom when the shit hit the fan(in a manner of speaking). So what 
to do? 
Boyd 

P.S. please excuse any more spelling errors then one would normally expect 
from a post written by an extremely distressed Pantera owner. It seems my 
spell check isn't running much better then my Pantera! 


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:30 PM, mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com> wrote: 

> For me I have a gear driven cam and the pin that drives the cam sheared 
> resulting the two broken  valves.   Hopefully my pics will come through. 
> Mark 
>   On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:24 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> 
> wrote: 
>  I would be very surprised if there isn't interference. 
> 
> But the timing chain rarely breaks.  If it jumps a tooth, you are probably 
> still safe, even with a mild performance cam. 
> 
> On 5/7/14 10:57 PM, "Boyd Casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> >  Do Cleveland engines (generally) have valves that will hit the pistons 
> >  if the timing chain breaks? I assume if you have a high lift cam and or 
> >  high top pistons you could have interference but what about a stock 
> >  engine?A 
> >  Boyd 
> >_______________________________________________ 
> > 
> >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA 
> > 
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> >DeTomaso at poca.com 
> >http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> 
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-------------- next part --------------
   Boyd:


   Since no big pieces seem to have left the block, the first thing to do
   is pull a valve cover and the distributor cap.  Then hit the starter
   and turn the motor over (which you report is still turning??).


   If the timing chain has failed, the valves and distributor will not
   move.  If the distributor gear/pin has failed, then the valves will
   move but the distributor will not turn. Check the timing too.  If the
   gear/pin failed the distributor may turn but be way out of time...
   (check: timing, compression, spark, fuel, one of them is missing....)


   Good luck..


   Jeff/2467

     __________________________________________________________________

   From: "Boyd Casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com>
   To: "mark skwarek" <ehpantera at yahoo.com>
   Cc: "Detomaso List" <detomaso at poca.com>
   Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:06:39 PM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fw:  Cleveland engine question
   Well as the more astute among may have already guessed I had an
   "episode"
   this evening while giving my pantera a workout after getting my new
   CNC sssleeve clutch master,
   ss sleeve long throw slave, new 90 amp alternator and new harmonic
   balanceralong with new front seal and pulley. My car was running and
   sounding
   great! I loved the new master and slave set up and even though the
   expected
   increase in clutch pedal effort materialised (as promised) I really
   liked
   the pedal resistance and the new longer throw slave really seemed to
   make
   the clutch engage ( it was like it slammed shut) the rear wheels seemed
   to
   hook up better and I was really enjoying my drive. I was actually
   enjoying
   it a little too much because I was in 5th and on it hard when all of a
   sudden there was a loud boom and a sudden loss of all power. At first
   the
   car was still in gear and the engine was turning due to the forward
   momentum of the car. There were no cylinders firing just the lub dub
   sound
   of  an engine turning with out ignition  and a substantial amount of
   smoke
   was visible in my rear view as well as a funky smell which I hope was
   fuel
   and air vaporising as it traveld through the hot engine with no spark
   to
   ignite it. I was very close to my exit so I put the car in neutral and
   rolled off the Parkway exit ramp.Once stopped I called a buddy of mine
   who
   lives near by and who owns a flat bed. He is also an avid car collector
   and
   restores classic cars as a hobby. He suggested I do a few things like
   try
   to restart the car and when it wouldn't start he suggested turning the
   key
   to start with the car in gear to see if it was locked up. When I turned
   the
   starter in first the car moved forward so at least it didn't appear to
   be a
   complete catastrophic failure ( but I guess that depends on your own
   definition of "catastrophic failure" The way I was feeling a broken
   timing
   chain or sheared distributor gear didn't seem as bad a a completely
   blown
   engine. (like a rod through the block kind of blown engine).
   So for those of you in the know whats the best way and order to check
   if
   it's a sheared pin or a jumped or broken timing chain? The thing that
   really made me think it was more then just a sheared distributor pin
   was
   the loud boom when the shit hit the fan(in a manner of speaking). So
   what
   to do?
   Boyd
   P.S. please excuse any more spelling errors then one would normally
   expect
   from a post written by an extremely distressed Pantera owner. It seems
   my
   spell check isn't running much better then my Pantera!
   On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:30 PM, mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>
   wrote:
   > For me I have a gear driven cam and the pin that drives the cam
   sheared
   > resulting the two broken  valves.   Hopefully my pics will come
   through.
   > Mark
   >   On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:24 PM, Will Kooiman
   <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
   > wrote:
   >  I would be very surprised if there isn't interference.
   >
   > But the timing chain rarely breaks.  If it jumps a tooth, you are
   probably
   > still safe, even with a mild performance cam.
   >
   > On 5/7/14 10:57 PM, "Boyd Casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
   >
   > >  Do Cleveland engines (generally) have valves that will hit the
   pistons
   > >  if the timing chain breaks? I assume if you have a high lift cam
   and or
   > >  high top pistons you could have interference but what about a
   stock
   > >  engine?A
   > >  Boyd
   > >_______________________________________________
   > >
   > >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > >
   > >DeTomaso mailing list
   > >DeTomaso at poca.com
   > >http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > DeTomaso at poca.com
   > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   >
   >
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