[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 120, Issue 14
markivj7 at aol.com
markivj7 at aol.com
Sat Jun 14 17:06:07 EDT 2014
re; soring rate, find a stock car shop with a spring rate tester.
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at poca.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 12:02 pm
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 120, Issue 14
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Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Spring rates, math quiz (Mikael)
2. Re: Spring rates, math quiz (Paul Timko)
3. Re: Spring rates, math quiz (Ken Green)
4. Re: Spring rates, math quiz (Mikael)
5. Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7? (geirlon)
6. Re: Spring rates, math quiz (Paul Timko)
7. Re: Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7? (Brent Stewart)
8. Re: horse power question (Gray Gregory)
9. Re: Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7? (Bjoern Flesland)
10. Re: Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7? (geirlon)
11. Re: Spring rates, math quiz (Mike Thomas)
12. Re: Spring rates, math quiz (Julian Kift)
13. Le Mans live video (Charles McCall)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 21:30:33 +0200
From: Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>, 'De Tomaso List'
<detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID: <20140613193033.6000789.16892.7219 at mail.tele.dk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs of
unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy iron:
headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they have springs on
shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size. I.D. has to be exact
(9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with a V6, preferably sporty soo
not too soft. And I realize that I will have to buy several (they're about $60
each) to experiment to get the height I want.?
But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted in shock
and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm. Question: if they
have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm at rest instead of 38cm,
what is the equivalent height decrease when weight is on spring and mounted in
shock? Is there a formula?
Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
? Original Message ?
From:
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:40:10 -0500
From: Paul Timko <thedrol at pobox.com>
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID: <539B539A.3010807 at pobox.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
It depends on the spring rate (lbs/in) which is based on the number of
turns and the metal of the springs. So there isn't really a good
answer. Particularly since they make springs that have the same
uncompressed length and diameter with different spring rates.
Paul
#9270
On 6/13/2014 2:30 PM, Mikael wrote:
>
> So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs of
unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy iron:
headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they have springs on
shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size. I.D. has to be exact
(9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with a V6, preferably sporty soo
not too soft. And I realize that I will have to buy several (they're about $60
each) to experiment to get the height I want.
>
> But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted in shock
and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm. Question: if they
have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm at rest instead of 38cm,
what is the equivalent height decrease when weight is on spring and mounted in
shock? Is there a formula?
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
> Original Message
> From:
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 13:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
To: Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>, Mike Thomas
<mbefthomas at comcast.net>, 'De Tomaso List' <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID:
<1402690462.98240.YahooMailNeo at web162503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I don't think you necessarily lower the car 1cm if the compressed spring is 1 cm
shorter, depends on the suspension geometry.
Are you sure there are no spacers in the shocks you can remove, like the spacers
on Pantera shocks?? If there are, do that first.
Ken
________________________________
From: Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'De Tomaso List' <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 12:30 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs of
unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy iron:
headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they have springs on
shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size. I.D. has to be exact
(9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with a V6, preferably sporty soo
not too soft. And I realize that I will have to buy several (they're about $60
each) to experiment to get the height I want.?
But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted in shock
and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm. Question: if they
have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm at rest instead of 38cm,
what is the equivalent height decrease when weight is on spring and mounted in
shock? Is there a formula?
Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
? Original Message ?
From:
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
-------------- next part --------------
I don't think you necessarily lower the car 1cm if the compressed
spring is 1 cm shorter, depends on the suspension geometry.
Are you sure there are no spacers in the shocks you can remove, like
the spacers on Pantera shocks? If there are, do that first.
Ken
From: Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'De Tomaso List'
<detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 12:30 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs
of unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy
iron: headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they
have springs on shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size.
I.D. has to be exact (9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with
a V6, preferably sporty soo not too soft. And I realize that I will
have to buy several (they're about $60 each) to experiment to get the
height I want.
But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted
in shock and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm.
Question: if they have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm
at rest instead of 38cm, what is the equivalent height decrease when
weight is on spring and mounted in shock? Is there a formula?
Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
Original Message
From:
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[1]DeTomaso at poca.com
[2]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
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2. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:16:18 +0200
From: Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
To: kenn_green at yahoo.com, Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>, 'De
Tomaso List' <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID: <20140613201618.6000789.63490.7222 at mail.tele.dk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
No spacers
Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
From: Ken Green
Sent: fredag den 13. juni 2014 22.14
To: Mikael; Mike Thomas; 'De Tomaso List'
Reply To: Ken Green
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
I don't think you necessarily lower the car 1cm if the compressed
spring is 1 cm shorter, depends on the suspension geometry.
Are you sure there are no spacers in the shocks you can remove, like
the spacers on Pantera shocks? If there are, do that first.
Ken
From: Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'De Tomaso List'
<detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 12:30 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs
of unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy
iron: headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they
have springs on shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size.
I.D. has to be exact (9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with
a V6, preferably sporty soo not too soft. And I realize that I will
have to buy several (they're about $60 each) to experiment to get the
height I want.
But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted
in shock and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm.
Question: if they have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm
at rest instead of 38cm, what is the equivalent height decrease when
weight is on spring and mounted in shock? Is there a formula?
Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
Original Message
From:
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[1]DeTomaso at poca.com
[2]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
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2. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:25:52 +0200
From: geirlon <geirlon at start.no>
To: <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7?
Message-ID: <269858604f45af18d79c18f6dae8b4d4 at start.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi.
I'm a pantera owner from Norway who are going on vacation to CA this
summer.
Stay there from 18/6 to 4/7.
Anybody have suggestions for things to see/do? Any car show?
Regards
Geir
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 15:32:10 -0500
From: Paul Timko <thedrol at pobox.com>
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID: <539B5FCA.4060607 at pobox.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Ken's comments are correct. The shocks are usually installed on an
angle (I haven't actually seen a Longchamp, so I'm not positive), so a
1cm reduction in spring height results in less than a 1cm reduction in
ride height.
Paul
#9270
On 6/13/2014 3:16 PM, Mikael wrote:
> No spacers
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
>
> From: Ken Green
> Sent: fredag den 13. juni 2014 22.14
> To: Mikael; Mike Thomas; 'De Tomaso List'
> Reply To: Ken Green
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
>
> I don't think you necessarily lower the car 1cm if the compressed
> spring is 1 cm shorter, depends on the suspension geometry.
> Are you sure there are no spacers in the shocks you can remove, like
> the spacers on Pantera shocks? If there are, do that first.
> Ken
> From: Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
> To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'De Tomaso List'
> <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 12:30 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
> So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs
> of unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy
> iron: headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they
> have springs on shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size.
> I.D. has to be exact (9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with
> a V6, preferably sporty soo not too soft. And I realize that I will
> have to buy several (they're about $60 each) to experiment to get the
> height I want.
> But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted
> in shock and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm.
> Question: if they have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm
> at rest instead of 38cm, what is the equivalent height decrease when
> weight is on spring and mounted in shock? Is there a formula?
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
> Original Message
> From:
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [1]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [2]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 2. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 13:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brent Stewart <bjbstewart at yahoo.com>
To: geirlon <geirlon at start.no>, "detomaso at poca.com"
<detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7?
Message-ID:
<1402692659.25562.YahooMailNeo at web140604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
California is kind of a big place. ?Where in CA will you be and on what dates?
On Friday, June 13, 2014 1:27 PM, geirlon <geirlon at start.no> wrote:
Hi.
I'm a pantera owner from Norway who are going on vacation to CA this
summer.
Stay there from 18/6 to 4/7.
Anybody have suggestions for things to see/do? Any car show?
Regards
Geir
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
-------------- next part --------------
California is kind of a big place. Where in CA will you be and on what
dates?
On Friday, June 13, 2014 1:27 PM, geirlon <geirlon at start.no> wrote:
Hi.
I'm a pantera owner from Norway who are going on vacation to CA this
summer.
Stay there from 18/6 to 4/7.
Anybody have suggestions for things to see/do? Any car show?
Regards
Geir
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[1]DeTomaso at poca.com
[2]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
2. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 02:02:24 +0000
From: Gray Gregory <rgg at gregorycook.com>
To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>, "don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com"
<don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com>, "boyd411 at gmail.com" <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] horse power question
Message-ID:
<4ab725fdb0b044c486dad2ce2641512c at BY2PR05MB709.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Probably, It was dyno'd by the engine builder so no doubt it was done in a very
friendly environment; likely with dyno headers, no accessories, no air cleaner
and maybe even cool air blowing directly down on the carb.... IMO comparing
engine dyno numbers with chassis dyno numbers is a pointless exercise because
the conditions are so different. Engine dyno conditions are usually set up as
friendly as possible in order to net the max hp number possible. Chassis dyno
conditions are usually the complete opposite; the dyno is usually in a hot
enclosed warehouse building and the engine is of course in the car with full
exhaust and all the accessories attached, so you have to first figure out how
much hp all that robs before you can determine how much power the drive train
consumes.
It would be interesting to dyno a motor with full exhaust and all the
accessories while somehow trying to simulate the environment of the engine being
in the car then run the car on a chassis dyno and compare the numbers.
Gray
From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 7:58 AM
To: Gray Gregory; don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com; boyd411 at gmail.com
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] horse power question
That's more loss than I would have expected, any chance was the engine dyno run
made with different headers, open flow?
Julian
> From: rgg at gregorycook.com<mailto:rgg at gregorycook.com>
> To: don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com<mailto:don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com>;
boyd411 at gmail.com<mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 10:18:04 +0000
> CC: detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] horse power question
>
> The actual numbers for my car were Engine dyno 472hp chassis dyno 355hp.
>
> Gray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Don Thomas
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 2:19 AM
> To: Boyd Casey
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] horse power question
>
> I have heard 20%... so you would see 400HP at the rear wheels...
>
> But your mileage may differ....
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com<mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com>>
wrote:
>
> > How much horse power is typically lost between the flywheel and be at
> > the A the rear wheels ( on a Pantera)? As an example if a Pantera had
> > an engine that was rated at 500 HP at the flywheel how much horsepower
> > would there be at TRW?
> > Boyd
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com<mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com>
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com<mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com>
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
-------------- next part --------------
Probably, It was dyno'd by the engine builder so no doubt it was done
in a very friendly environment; likely with dyno headers, no
accessories, no air cleaner and maybe even cool air blowing directly
down on the carb.... IMO comparing engine dyno numbers with chassis
dyno numbers is a pointless exercise because the conditions are so
different. Engine dyno conditions are usually set up as friendly as
possible in order to net the max hp number possible. Chassis dyno
conditions are usually the complete opposite; the dyno is usually in a
hot enclosed warehouse building and the engine is of course in the car
with full exhaust and all the accessories attached, so you have to
first figure out how much hp all that robs before you can determine how
much power the drive train consumes.
It would be interesting to dyno a motor with full exhaust and all the
accessories while somehow trying to simulate the environment of the
engine being in the car then run the car on a chassis dyno and compare
the numbers.
Gray
From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 7:58 AM
To: Gray Gregory; don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com; boyd411 at gmail.com
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] horse power question
That's more loss than I would have expected, any chance was the engine
dyno run made with different headers, open flow?
Julian
> From: [1]rgg at gregorycook.com
> To: [2]don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com; [3]boyd411 at gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 10:18:04 +0000
> CC: [4]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] horse power question
>
> The actual numbers for my car were Engine dyno 472hp chassis dyno
355hp.
>
> Gray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [[5]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Don
Thomas
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 2:19 AM
> To: Boyd Casey
> Cc: [6]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] horse power question
>
> I have heard 20%... so you would see 400HP at the rear wheels...
>
> But your mileage may differ....
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Boyd Casey <[7]boyd411 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > How much horse power is typically lost between the flywheel and be
at
> > the A the rear wheels ( on a Pantera)? As an example if a Pantera
had
> > an engine that was rated at 500 HP at the flywheel how much
horsepower
> > would there be at TRW?
> > Boyd
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [8]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [10]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. mailto:rgg at gregorycook.com
2. mailto:don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com
3. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
5. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
7. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 04:06:01 +0200
From: Bjoern Flesland <bflesland at gmail.com>
To: geirlon <geirlon at start.no>, "detomaso at poca.com"
<detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7?
Message-ID:
<CACF3J0LKb+boMv-ZZfgCp5Eg+6EpMraFBDT3ELgLiFrci_8rPg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Petersen Museum, Marconi Automotive Museum, The Nethercutt Collection, Cars
& Cofee in Irvine, Supercar Sunday in Woodland Hills.
Check this link also:
http://www.socalcarculture.com/
Cheers Bjoern
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 10:25 PM, geirlon <geirlon at start.no> wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I'm a pantera owner from Norway who are going on vacation to CA this
> summer.
> Stay there from 18/6 to 4/7.
>
> Anybody have suggestions for things to see/do? Any car show?
>
> Regards
> Geir
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
Petersen Museum, Marconi Automotive Museum, The Nethercutt
Collection,A Cars & Cofee in Irvine, Supercar Sunday in Woodland Hills.
Check this link also:A
[1]http://www.socalcarculture.com/
Cheers Bjoern
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 10:25 PM, geirlon <[2]geirlon at start.no> wrote:
Hi.
I'm a pantera owner from Norway who are going on vacation to CA this
summer.
Stay there from 18/6 to 4/7.
Anybody have suggestions for things to see/do? Any car show?
Regards
Geir
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[3]DeTomaso at poca.com
[4]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. http://www.socalcarculture.com/
2. mailto:geirlon at start.no
3. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
4. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 10:48:08 +0200
From: geirlon <geirlon at start.no>
To: <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7?
Message-ID: <18e0a46a90dc750ba64a4cbafe7858a8 at start.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Fly to LA and have hotel for the tree first nights there. Otherwise no
specific.
Thinking about trip to San Francisco and Las Vegas.
Geir
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 19:08:03 -0700, The DeTomaso Registry Guy
<detomasoregistry at gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you going to be in Southern Calif, or Northern Calif?
>
> It could make a 1000 Km difference.
>
> LA is "Car Central", stuff about every weekend.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> Hi.
>
> I'm a pantera owner from Norway who are going on vacation to CA this
> summer.
> Stay there from 18/6 to 4/7.
>
> Anybody have suggestions for things to see/do? Any car show?
>
> Regards
> Geir
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 07:46:08 -0700
From: "Mike Thomas" <mbefthomas at comcast.net>
To: "'Paul Timko'" <thedrol at pobox.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID: <00a801cf87df$60d1c250$227546f0$@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Wouldn't the shop you're going to be able to put your existing coils on a
spring compressor, load them to the average weight on that wheel when on the
car to set a baseline, then try putting a few different springs from their
inventory into the compressor to find that 5cm drop for the same load? That
could eliminate a lot of your experimentation beforehand.
Just a thought.
Mike Thomas
VP, POCA
VP, Panteras Northwest
Yellow '74 #6328
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Paul Timko
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 1:32 PM
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Ken's comments are correct. The shocks are usually installed on an angle (I
haven't actually seen a Longchamp, so I'm not positive), so a 1cm reduction
in spring height results in less than a 1cm reduction in ride height.
Paul
#9270
On 6/13/2014 3:16 PM, Mikael wrote:
> No spacers
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
>
> From: Ken Green
> Sent: fredag den 13. juni 2014 22.14
> To: Mikael; Mike Thomas; 'De Tomaso List'
> Reply To: Ken Green
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
>
> I don't think you necessarily lower the car 1cm if the compressed
> spring is 1 cm shorter, depends on the suspension geometry.
> Are you sure there are no spacers in the shocks you can remove, like
> the spacers on Pantera shocks? If there are, do that first.
> Ken
> From: Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
> To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'De Tomaso List'
> <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 12:30 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
> So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs
> of unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced
heavy
> iron: headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they
> have springs on shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size.
> I.D. has to be exact (9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with
> a V6, preferably sporty soo not too soft. And I realize that I will
> have to buy several (they're about $60 each) to experiment to get the
> height I want.
> But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted
> in shock and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm.
> Question: if they have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe
33cm
> at rest instead of 38cm, what is the equivalent height decrease when
> weight is on spring and mounted in shock? Is there a formula?
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
> Original Message
> From:
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [1]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [2]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 2. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
_______________________________________________
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DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 07:50:59 -0700
From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>, <mbefthomas at comcast.net>,
<detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID: <BAY173-W43B37628C7B5ABBF863FC195140 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Mikael,
Do you know the corner weights of the Longchamp or have access to corner weight
scales? If you could know that mass then you can estimate the reactive spring
rate lbs/inch of your current springs from the 13cm of compression you have
mounted and uncounted. I say reactive as it would only be an estimate given the
angle of the shocks and suspension travel and the fact some of the corner mass
is the wheel, rotors etc. (unsprung weight) With that information it should
fairly simple math to estimate the length and spring rate that provides the ride
height you desire.
The alternative is to take a spring and compress it by 1 inch on a scale and
read what weight that takes, which is your spring rate in lbs/inch, but you
still need the unstrung mass of the Longchamp to estimate the static weight
(compression) on the spring.
Of course you could just get a set of aftermarket adjustable shocks and springs!
Julian
> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 21:30:33 +0200
> From: mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> To: mbefthomas at comcast.net; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
>
>
> So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs of
unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy iron:
headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they have springs on
shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size. I.D. has to be exact
(9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with a V6, preferably sporty soo
not too soft. And I realize that I will have to buy several (they're about $60
each) to experiment to get the height I want.
>
> But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted in shock
and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm. Question: if they
have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm at rest instead of 38cm,
what is the equivalent height decrease when weight is on spring and mounted in
shock? Is there a formula?
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
> Original Message
> From:
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
-------------- next part --------------
Mikael,
Do you know the corner weights of the Longchamp or have access to
corner weight scales? If you could know that mass then you can estimate
the reactive spring rate lbs/inch of your current springs from the 13cm
of compression you have mounted and uncounted. I say reactive as it
would only be an estimate given the angle of the shocks and suspension
travel and the fact some of the corner mass is the wheel, rotors etc.
(unsprung weight) With that information it should fairly simple math to
estimate the length and spring rate that provides the ride height you
desire.
The alternative is to take a spring and compress it by 1 inch on a
scale and read what weight that takes, which is your spring rate in
lbs/inch, but you still need the unstrung mass of the Longchamp to
estimate the static weight (compression) on the spring.
Of course you could just get a set of aftermarket adjustable shocks and
springs!
Julian
> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 21:30:33 +0200
> From: mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> To: mbefthomas at comcast.net; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
>
>
> So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp
springs of unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have
replaced heavy iron: headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a
place where they have springs on shelves so I can measure and find
close origs in size. I.D. has to be exact (9cm). And I plan to find
springs from a car with a V6, preferably sporty soo not too soft. And I
realize that I will have to buy several (they're about $60 each) to
experiment to get the height I want.
>
> But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted
in shock and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm.
Question: if they have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm
at rest instead of 38cm, what is the equivalent height decrease when
weight is on spring and mounted in shock? Is there a formula?
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
> Original Message
> From:
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 20:02:42 +0200
From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
To: <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Le Mans live video
Message-ID: <028701cf87fa$d72c6b60$85854220$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Follow the race here:
http://www.24h-lemans.com/live/en
-------------- next part --------------
Follow the race here:
[1]http://www.24h-lemans.com/live/en
References
1. http://www.24h-lemans.com/live/en
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 120, Issue 14
*****************************************
-------------- next part --------------
re; soring rate, find a stock car shop with a spring rate tester.
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at poca.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 12:02 pm
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 120, Issue 14
Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
[1]detomaso at poca.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
[2]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[3]detomaso-request at poca.com
You can reach the person managing the list at
[4]detomaso-owner at poca.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Spring rates, math quiz (Mikael)
2. Re: Spring rates, math quiz (Paul Timko)
3. Re: Spring rates, math quiz (Ken Green)
4. Re: Spring rates, math quiz (Mikael)
5. Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7? (geirlon)
6. Re: Spring rates, math quiz (Paul Timko)
7. Re: Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7? (Brent Stewart)
8. Re: horse power question (Gray Gregory)
9. Re: Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7? (Bjoern Flesland)
10. Re: Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7? (geirlon)
11. Re: Spring rates, math quiz (Mike Thomas)
12. Re: Spring rates, math quiz (Julian Kift)
13. Le Mans live video (Charles McCall)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 21:30:33 +0200
From: Mikael <[5]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
To: Mike Thomas <[6]mbefthomas at comcast.net>, 'De Tomaso List'
<[7]detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID: <[8]20140613193033.6000789.16892.7219 at mail.tele.dk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs of
unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy iron:
headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they have springs on
shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size. I.D. has to be exact
(9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with a V6, preferably sporty soo
not too soft. And I realize that I will have to buy several (they're about $60
each) to experiment to get the height I want.?
But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted in shock
and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm. Question: if they
have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm at rest instead of 38cm,
what is the equivalent height decrease when weight is on spring and mounted in
shock? Is there a formula?
Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
? Original Message ?
From:
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:40:10 -0500
From: Paul Timko <[9]thedrol at pobox.com>
To: [10]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID: <[11]539B539A.3010807 at pobox.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
It depends on the spring rate (lbs/in) which is based on the number of
turns and the metal of the springs. So there isn't really a good
answer. Particularly since they make springs that have the same
uncompressed length and diameter with different spring rates.
Paul
#9270
On 6/13/2014 2:30 PM, Mikael wrote:
>
> So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs of
unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy iron:
headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they have springs on
shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size. I.D. has to be exact
(9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with a V6, preferably sporty soo
not too soft. And I realize that I will have to buy several (they're about $60
each) to experiment to get the height I want.
>
> But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted in shock
and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm. Question: if they
have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm at rest instead of 38cm,
what is the equivalent height decrease when weight is on spring and mounted in
shock? Is there a formula?
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
> Original Message
> From:
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [12]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 13:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ken Green <[14]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
To: Mikael <[15]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>, Mike Thomas
<[16]mbefthomas at comcast.net>, 'De Tomaso List' <[17]detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID:
<[18]1402690462.98240.YahooMailNeo at web162503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I don't think you necessarily lower the car 1cm if the compressed spring is 1 cm
shorter, depends on the suspension geometry.
Are you sure there are no spacers in the shocks you can remove, like the spacers
on Pantera shocks?? If there are, do that first.
Ken
________________________________
From: Mikael <[19]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
To: Mike Thomas <[20]mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'De Tomaso List' <[21]detomaso at poc
a.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 12:30 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs of
unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy iron:
headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they have springs on
shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size. I.D. has to be exact
(9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with a V6, preferably sporty soo
not too soft. And I realize that I will have to buy several (they're about $60
each) to experiment to get the height I want.?
But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted in shock
and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm. Question: if they
have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm at rest instead of 38cm,
what is the equivalent height decrease when weight is on spring and mounted in
shock? Is there a formula?
Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
? Original Message ?
From:
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[22]DeTomaso at poca.com
[23]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
-------------- next part --------------
I don't think you necessarily lower the car 1cm if the compressed
spring is 1 cm shorter, depends on the suspension geometry.
Are you sure there are no spacers in the shocks you can remove, like
the spacers on Pantera shocks? If there are, do that first.
Ken
From: Mikael <[24]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
To: Mike Thomas <[25]mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'De Tomaso List'
<[26]detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 12:30 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs
of unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy
iron: headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they
have springs on shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size.
I.D. has to be exact (9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with
a V6, preferably sporty soo not too soft. And I realize that I will
have to buy several (they're about $60 each) to experiment to get the
height I want.
But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted
in shock and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm.
Question: if they have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm
at rest instead of 38cm, what is the equivalent height decrease when
weight is on spring and mounted in shock? Is there a formula?
Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
Original Message
From:
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[1][27]DeTomaso at poca.com
[2][28]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. [29]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
2. [30]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:16:18 +0200
From: Mikael <[31]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
To: [32]kenn_green at yahoo.com, Mike Thomas <[33]mbefthomas at comcast.net>, 'De
Tomaso List' <[34]detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID: <[35]20140613201618.6000789.63490.7222 at mail.tele.dk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
No spacers
Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
From: Ken Green
Sent: fredag den 13. juni 2014 22.14
To: Mikael; Mike Thomas; 'De Tomaso List'
Reply To: Ken Green
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
I don't think you necessarily lower the car 1cm if the compressed
spring is 1 cm shorter, depends on the suspension geometry.
Are you sure there are no spacers in the shocks you can remove, like
the spacers on Pantera shocks? If there are, do that first.
Ken
From: Mikael <[36]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
To: Mike Thomas <[37]mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'De Tomaso List'
<[38]detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 12:30 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs
of unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy
iron: headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they
have springs on shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size.
I.D. has to be exact (9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with
a V6, preferably sporty soo not too soft. And I realize that I will
have to buy several (they're about $60 each) to experiment to get the
height I want.
But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted
in shock and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm.
Question: if they have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm
at rest instead of 38cm, what is the equivalent height decrease when
weight is on spring and mounted in shock? Is there a formula?
Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
Original Message
From:
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[1][39]DeTomaso at poca.com
[2][40]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. [41]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
2. [42]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:25:52 +0200
From: geirlon <[43]geirlon at start.no>
To: <[44]detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7?
Message-ID: <[45]269858604f45af18d79c18f6dae8b4d4 at start.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi.
I'm a pantera owner from Norway who are going on vacation to CA this
summer.
Stay there from 18/6 to 4/7.
Anybody have suggestions for things to see/do? Any car show?
Regards
Geir
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 15:32:10 -0500
From: Paul Timko <[46]thedrol at pobox.com>
To: [47]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID: <[48]539B5FCA.4060607 at pobox.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Ken's comments are correct. The shocks are usually installed on an
angle (I haven't actually seen a Longchamp, so I'm not positive), so a
1cm reduction in spring height results in less than a 1cm reduction in
ride height.
Paul
#9270
On 6/13/2014 3:16 PM, Mikael wrote:
> No spacers
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
>
> From: Ken Green
> Sent: fredag den 13. juni 2014 22.14
> To: Mikael; Mike Thomas; 'De Tomaso List'
> Reply To: Ken Green
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
>
> I don't think you necessarily lower the car 1cm if the compressed
> spring is 1 cm shorter, depends on the suspension geometry.
> Are you sure there are no spacers in the shocks you can remove, like
> the spacers on Pantera shocks? If there are, do that first.
> Ken
> From: Mikael <[49]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
> To: Mike Thomas <[50]mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'De Tomaso List'
> <[51]detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 12:30 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
> So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs
> of unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy
> iron: headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they
> have springs on shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size.
> I.D. has to be exact (9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with
> a V6, preferably sporty soo not too soft. And I realize that I will
> have to buy several (they're about $60 each) to experiment to get the
> height I want.
> But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted
> in shock and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm.
> Question: if they have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm
> at rest instead of 38cm, what is the equivalent height decrease when
> weight is on spring and mounted in shock? Is there a formula?
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
> Original Message
> From:
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [1][52]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [2][53]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. [54]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 2. [55]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [56]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [57]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 13:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brent Stewart <[58]bjbstewart at yahoo.com>
To: geirlon <[59]geirlon at start.no>, "[60]detomaso at poca.com"
<[61]detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7?
Message-ID:
<[62]1402692659.25562.YahooMailNeo at web140604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
California is kind of a big place. ?Where in CA will you be and on what dates?
On Friday, June 13, 2014 1:27 PM, geirlon <[63]geirlon at start.no> wrote:
Hi.
I'm a pantera owner from Norway who are going on vacation to CA this
summer.
Stay there from 18/6 to 4/7.
Anybody have suggestions for things to see/do? Any car show?
Regards
Geir
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[64]DeTomaso at poca.com
[65]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
-------------- next part --------------
California is kind of a big place. Where in CA will you be and on what
dates?
On Friday, June 13, 2014 1:27 PM, geirlon <[66]geirlon at start.no> wrote:
Hi.
I'm a pantera owner from Norway who are going on vacation to CA this
summer.
Stay there from 18/6 to 4/7.
Anybody have suggestions for things to see/do? Any car show?
Regards
Geir
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[1][67]DeTomaso at poca.com
[2][68]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. [69]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
2. [70]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 02:02:24 +0000
From: Gray Gregory <[71]rgg at gregorycook.com>
To: Julian Kift <[72]julian_kift at hotmail.com>, "[73]don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com"
<[74]don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com>, "[75]boyd411 at gmail.com" <[76]boyd411 at gm
ail.com>
Cc: "[77]detomaso at poca.com" <[78]detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] horse power question
Message-ID:
<[79]4ab725fdb0b044c486dad2ce2641512c at BY2PR05MB709.namprd05.prod.outlook
.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Probably, It was dyno'd by the engine builder so no doubt it was done in a very
friendly environment; likely with dyno headers, no accessories, no air cleaner
and maybe even cool air blowing directly down on the carb.... IMO comparing
engine dyno numbers with chassis dyno numbers is a pointless exercise because
the conditions are so different. Engine dyno conditions are usually set up as
friendly as possible in order to net the max hp number possible. Chassis dyno
conditions are usually the complete opposite; the dyno is usually in a hot
enclosed warehouse building and the engine is of course in the car with full
exhaust and all the accessories attached, so you have to first figure out how
much hp all that robs before you can determine how much power the drive train
consumes.
It would be interesting to dyno a motor with full exhaust and all the
accessories while somehow trying to simulate the environment of the engine being
in the car then run the car on a chassis dyno and compare the numbers.
Gray
From: Julian Kift [[80]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 7:58 AM
To: Gray Gregory; [81]don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com; [82]boyd411 at gmail.com
Cc: [83]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] horse power question
That's more loss than I would have expected, any chance was the engine dyno run
made with different headers, open flow?
Julian
> From: [84]rgg at gregorycook.com<[85]mailto:rgg at gregorycook.com>
> To: [86]don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com<[87]mailto:don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com>;
[88]boyd411 at gmail.com<[89]mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 10:18:04 +0000
> CC: [90]detomaso at poca.com<[91]mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] horse power question
>
> The actual numbers for my car were Engine dyno 472hp chassis dyno 355hp.
>
> Gray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [[92]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Don Thomas
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 2:19 AM
> To: Boyd Casey
> Cc: [93]detomaso at poca.com<[94]mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] horse power question
>
> I have heard 20%... so you would see 400HP at the rear wheels...
>
> But your mileage may differ....
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Boyd Casey <[95]boyd411 at gmail.com<[96]mailto
:boyd411 at gmail.com>>
wrote:
>
> > How much horse power is typically lost between the flywheel and be at
> > the A the rear wheels ( on a Pantera)? As an example if a Pantera had
> > an engine that was rated at 500 HP at the flywheel how much horsepower
> > would there be at TRW?
> > Boyd
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [97]DeTomaso at poca.com<[98]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com>
> > [99]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [100]DeTomaso at poca.com<[101]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com>
> [102]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
-------------- next part --------------
Probably, It was dyno'd by the engine builder so no doubt it was done
in a very friendly environment; likely with dyno headers, no
accessories, no air cleaner and maybe even cool air blowing directly
down on the carb.... IMO comparing engine dyno numbers with chassis
dyno numbers is a pointless exercise because the conditions are so
different. Engine dyno conditions are usually set up as friendly as
possible in order to net the max hp number possible. Chassis dyno
conditions are usually the complete opposite; the dyno is usually in a
hot enclosed warehouse building and the engine is of course in the car
with full exhaust and all the accessories attached, so you have to
first figure out how much hp all that robs before you can determine how
much power the drive train consumes.
It would be interesting to dyno a motor with full exhaust and all the
accessories while somehow trying to simulate the environment of the
engine being in the car then run the car on a chassis dyno and compare
the numbers.
Gray
From: Julian Kift [[103]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 7:58 AM
To: Gray Gregory; [104]don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com; [105]boyd411 at gmail.com
Cc: [106]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] horse power question
That's more loss than I would have expected, any chance was the engine
dyno run made with different headers, open flow?
Julian
> From: [1][107]rgg at gregorycook.com
> To: [2][108]don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com; [3][109]boyd411 at gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 10:18:04 +0000
> CC: [4][110]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] horse power question
>
> The actual numbers for my car were Engine dyno 472hp chassis dyno
355hp.
>
> Gray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [[5][111]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Don
Thomas
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 2:19 AM
> To: Boyd Casey
> Cc: [6][112]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] horse power question
>
> I have heard 20%... so you would see 400HP at the rear wheels...
>
> But your mileage may differ....
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Boyd Casey <[7][113]boyd411 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > How much horse power is typically lost between the flywheel and be
at
> > the A the rear wheels ( on a Pantera)? As an example if a Pantera
had
> > an engine that was rated at 500 HP at the flywheel how much
horsepower
> > would there be at TRW?
> > Boyd
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [8][114]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [9][115]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [10][116]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [11][117]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. [118]mailto:rgg at gregorycook.com
2. [119]mailto:don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com
3. [120]mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
4. [121]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
5. [122]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
6. [123]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
7. [124]mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
8. [125]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
9. [126]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
10. [127]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
11. [128]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 04:06:01 +0200
From: Bjoern Flesland <[129]bflesland at gmail.com>
To: geirlon <[130]geirlon at start.no>, "[131]detomaso at poca.com"
<[132]detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7?
Message-ID:
<[133]CACF3J0LKb+boMv-ZZfgCp5Eg+6EpMraFBDT3ELgLiFrci_8rPg at mail.gmail.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Petersen Museum, Marconi Automotive Museum, The Nethercutt Collection, Cars
& Cofee in Irvine, Supercar Sunday in Woodland Hills.
Check this link also:
[134]http://www.socalcarculture.com/
Cheers Bjoern
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 10:25 PM, geirlon <[135]geirlon at start.no> wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I'm a pantera owner from Norway who are going on vacation to CA this
> summer.
> Stay there from 18/6 to 4/7.
>
> Anybody have suggestions for things to see/do? Any car show?
>
> Regards
> Geir
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [136]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [137]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
Petersen Museum, Marconi Automotive Museum, The Nethercutt
Collection,A Cars & Cofee in Irvine, Supercar Sunday in Woodland Hills.
Check this link also:A
[1][138]http://www.socalcarculture.com/
Cheers Bjoern
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 10:25 PM, geirlon <[2][139]geirlon at start.no> wrote:
Hi.
I'm a pantera owner from Norway who are going on vacation to CA this
summer.
Stay there from 18/6 to 4/7.
Anybody have suggestions for things to see/do? Any car show?
Regards
Geir
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[3][140]DeTomaso at poca.com
[4][141]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. [142]http://www.socalcarculture.com/
2. [143]mailto:geirlon at start.no
3. [144]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
4. [145]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 10:48:08 +0200
From: geirlon <[146]geirlon at start.no>
To: <[147]detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Some events in California 18/6 to 4/7?
Message-ID: <[148]18e0a46a90dc750ba64a4cbafe7858a8 at start.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Fly to LA and have hotel for the tree first nights there. Otherwise no
specific.
Thinking about trip to San Francisco and Las Vegas.
Geir
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 19:08:03 -0700, The DeTomaso Registry Guy
<[149]detomasoregistry at gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you going to be in Southern Calif, or Northern Calif?
>
> It could make a 1000 Km difference.
>
> LA is "Car Central", stuff about every weekend.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> Hi.
>
> I'm a pantera owner from Norway who are going on vacation to CA this
> summer.
> Stay there from 18/6 to 4/7.
>
> Anybody have suggestions for things to see/do? Any car show?
>
> Regards
> Geir
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [150]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [151]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 07:46:08 -0700
From: "Mike Thomas" <[152]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
To: "'Paul Timko'" <[153]thedrol at pobox.com>, <[154]detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID: <00a801cf87df$60d1c250$227546f0$@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Wouldn't the shop you're going to be able to put your existing coils on a
spring compressor, load them to the average weight on that wheel when on the
car to set a baseline, then try putting a few different springs from their
inventory into the compressor to find that 5cm drop for the same load? That
could eliminate a lot of your experimentation beforehand.
Just a thought.
Mike Thomas
VP, POCA
VP, Panteras Northwest
Yellow '74 #6328
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[155]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Paul Timko
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 1:32 PM
To: [156]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Ken's comments are correct. The shocks are usually installed on an angle (I
haven't actually seen a Longchamp, so I'm not positive), so a 1cm reduction
in spring height results in less than a 1cm reduction in ride height.
Paul
#9270
On 6/13/2014 3:16 PM, Mikael wrote:
> No spacers
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
>
> From: Ken Green
> Sent: fredag den 13. juni 2014 22.14
> To: Mikael; Mike Thomas; 'De Tomaso List'
> Reply To: Ken Green
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
>
> I don't think you necessarily lower the car 1cm if the compressed
> spring is 1 cm shorter, depends on the suspension geometry.
> Are you sure there are no spacers in the shocks you can remove, like
> the spacers on Pantera shocks? If there are, do that first.
> Ken
> From: Mikael <[157]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
> To: Mike Thomas <[158]mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'De Tomaso List'
> <[159]detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 12:30 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
> So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs
> of unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced
heavy
> iron: headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they
> have springs on shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size.
> I.D. has to be exact (9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with
> a V6, preferably sporty soo not too soft. And I realize that I will
> have to buy several (they're about $60 each) to experiment to get the
> height I want.
> But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted
> in shock and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm.
> Question: if they have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe
33cm
> at rest instead of 38cm, what is the equivalent height decrease when
> weight is on spring and mounted in shock? Is there a formula?
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
> Original Message
> From:
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [1][160]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [2][161]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. [162]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 2. [163]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [164]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [165]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[166]DeTomaso at poca.com
[167]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 07:50:59 -0700
From: Julian Kift <[168]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: <[169]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>, <[170]mbefthomas at comcast.net>,
<[171]detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
Message-ID: <[172]BAY173-W43B37628C7B5ABBF863FC195140 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Mikael,
Do you know the corner weights of the Longchamp or have access to corner weight
scales? If you could know that mass then you can estimate the reactive spring
rate lbs/inch of your current springs from the 13cm of compression you have
mounted and uncounted. I say reactive as it would only be an estimate given the
angle of the shocks and suspension travel and the fact some of the corner mass
is the wheel, rotors etc. (unsprung weight) With that information it should
fairly simple math to estimate the length and spring rate that provides the ride
height you desire.
The alternative is to take a spring and compress it by 1 inch on a scale and
read what weight that takes, which is your spring rate in lbs/inch, but you
still need the unstrung mass of the Longchamp to estimate the static weight
(compression) on the spring.
Of course you could just get a set of aftermarket adjustable shocks and springs!
Julian
> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 21:30:33 +0200
> From: [173]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> To: [174]mbefthomas at comcast.net; [175]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
>
>
> So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp springs of
unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have replaced heavy iron:
headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a place where they have springs on
shelves so I can measure and find close origs in size. I.D. has to be exact
(9cm). And I plan to find springs from a car with a V6, preferably sporty soo
not too soft. And I realize that I will have to buy several (they're about $60
each) to experiment to get the height I want.
>
> But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted in shock
and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm. Question: if they
have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm at rest instead of 38cm,
what is the equivalent height decrease when weight is on spring and mounted in
shock? Is there a formula?
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
> Original Message
> From:
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [176]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [177]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
-------------- next part --------------
Mikael,
Do you know the corner weights of the Longchamp or have access to
corner weight scales? If you could know that mass then you can estimate
the reactive spring rate lbs/inch of your current springs from the 13cm
of compression you have mounted and uncounted. I say reactive as it
would only be an estimate given the angle of the shocks and suspension
travel and the fact some of the corner mass is the wheel, rotors etc.
(unsprung weight) With that information it should fairly simple math to
estimate the length and spring rate that provides the ride height you
desire.
The alternative is to take a spring and compress it by 1 inch on a
scale and read what weight that takes, which is your spring rate in
lbs/inch, but you still need the unstrung mass of the Longchamp to
estimate the static weight (compression) on the spring.
Of course you could just get a set of aftermarket adjustable shocks and
springs!
Julian
> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 21:30:33 +0200
> From: [178]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> To: [179]mbefthomas at comcast.net; [180]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Spring rates, math quiz
>
>
> So all you math genuises, here's a question. My orig Longchamp
springs of unknown spring rate are too hard/long now that I have
replaced heavy iron: headers, heads, intake. Tomorrow I'm going to a
place where they have springs on shelves so I can measure and find
close origs in size. I.D. has to be exact (9cm). And I plan to find
springs from a car with a V6, preferably sporty soo not too soft. And I
realize that I will have to buy several (they're about $60 each) to
experiment to get the height I want.
>
> But here's the question. Orig springs are 38cm free, and 25cm mounted
in shock and weight on car. I'm looking for around 20cm, lowering 5cm.
Question: if they have springs with proper diameter, but are maybe 33cm
at rest instead of 38cm, what is the equivalent height decrease when
weight is on spring and mounted in shock? Is there a formula?
> Sent from my BlackBerry Q10
> Original Message
> From:
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [181]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [182]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 20:02:42 +0200
From: Charles McCall <[183]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
To: <[184]detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Le Mans live video
Message-ID: <028701cf87fa$d72c6b60$85854220$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Follow the race here:
[185]http://www.24h-lemans.com/live/en
-------------- next part --------------
Follow the race here:
[1][186]http://www.24h-lemans.com/live/en
References
1. [187]http://www.24h-lemans.com/live/en
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
DeTomaso mailing list
[188]DeTomaso at poca.com
[189]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 120, Issue 14
*****************************************
References
1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
2. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
3. mailto:detomaso-request at poca.com
4. mailto:detomaso-owner at poca.com
5. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
6. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
8. mailto:20140613193033.6000789.16892.7219 at mail.tele.dk
9. mailto:thedrol at pobox.com
10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
11. mailto:539B539A.3010807 at pobox.com
12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
14. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
15. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
16. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
17. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
18. mailto:1402690462.98240.YahooMailNeo at web162503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
19. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
20. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
21. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
22. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
23. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
24. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
25. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
26. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
29. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
30. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
31. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
32. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
33. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
34. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
35. mailto:20140613201618.6000789.63490.7222 at mail.tele.dk
36. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
37. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
38. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
39. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
40. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
41. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
42. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
43. mailto:geirlon at start.no
44. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
45. mailto:269858604f45af18d79c18f6dae8b4d4 at start.no
46. mailto:thedrol at pobox.com
47. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
48. mailto:539B5FCA.4060607 at pobox.com
49. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
50. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
51. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
52. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
53. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
54. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
55. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
56. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
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60. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
61. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
62. mailto:1402692659.25562.YahooMailNeo at web140604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
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65. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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69. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
70. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
71. mailto:rgg at gregorycook.com
72. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
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74. mailto:don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com
75. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
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77. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
78. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
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81. mailto:don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com
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88. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
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90. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
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93. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
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95. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
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97. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
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99. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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104. mailto:don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com
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106. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
107. mailto:rgg at gregorycook.com
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118. mailto:rgg at gregorycook.com?
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120. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com?
121. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
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128. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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130. mailto:geirlon at start.no
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132. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
133. mailto:CACF3J0LKb+boMv-ZZfgCp5Eg+6EpMraFBDT3ELgLiFrci_8rPg at mail.gmail.com
134. http://www.socalcarculture.com/
135. mailto:geirlon at start.no
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137. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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145. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
146. mailto:geirlon at start.no
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148. mailto:18e0a46a90dc750ba64a4cbafe7858a8 at start.no
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151. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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156. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
157. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
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167. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
168. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
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170. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
171. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
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