[DeTomaso] Moving ac condenser to front of car., no, don't.
Mikael
mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
Wed Jun 4 07:05:47 EDT 2014
It’s an old trick that if you’re in a queue and your engine starts to get too hot, you have to turn off the A/C. This applies only to a car with condenser in front of course, but having a hot restrictive item right in front of your radiator is the last thing you want.
And again, on all of the great trips you arranged where Helen and I’ve had the pleasure to attend in a Pantera, when we did our maybe 100 km highway cruises in hot French summer days, we had to put the A/C switch on approx. 2/3, putting it on max was too cold for us. So a rear mounted condenser can work just fine, when A/C doesn’t work as well as one would like, it’s usually lack of R12/R134, lack of full closure for heated water, thermostat issue. Moving the condenser up front is trying to compensate for a problem, not correct it, in LEAN-speak.
The fact that some people were fortunate enough to get colder air after moving condenser up front could be right, it’s the “maybe” argument below. But since moving the condenser up front requires system to be emptied and filled, new hoses, maybe a more efficient condenser design itself, I think we can’t conclude that the positioning itself made a difference.
Talking to an A/C guy I know, not getting the right temp is in 99% of the cases due to either lack of R12/R134 or misadjusted cable/vacuum operated heater cut off.
Mikael
Fra: Charles McCall [mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com]
Sendt: 4. juni 2014 12:46
Til: Mikael
Cc: Boyd Casey; Pantera list serve
Emne: Re: [DeTomaso] Moving ac condenser to front of car., no, don't.
I've read over the years numerous first-hand reports of people who have mounted the condenser up front and have not noticed overheating problems, but have noticed improved A/C performance. I even remember reading an objetive report from someone who measured the temperature coming out the vents before and and after moving the condenser, both at around-town speeds and highway speeds. A/C efficiency was equal around town with both setups, but the effectiveness dropped measurably with the rear mounted setup as highway speed increased, and they only measured up to 60 mph or so. A/C efficiency would no doubt continue to drop, and perhaps even exponentially, at sustained 150 k/hr cruising.
Based on the number of reports I've read over the years, I have filed away in my mind that this was a good mod for cars used at higher cruising speeds, and would be of limited value for cars that just cruise around town.
Names of the people who have tried this may be found in the archives. (And Mikael will have the opportunity to talk to some of them next month at Le Mans)
Just another perspective
On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 7:30 AM, Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk> wrote:
Boyd, allow me to paste in my earlier input on this. Nobody disagreed back then, that could of course be because they think I'm beyond repair... :-) Please read below...
--
It pops up once in a while: the idea of front mounted A/C. Before you spend the time and money (unless you’re rich and retired and needs to get through the day), consider this:
It would have been easier and cheaper for DeTomaso to have the A/C in the front, so why did they go to rear mounted? Very simply because having two hot things close to one another doesn’t help.
A/C:
1. If going slow or standing still in stop and go traffic, which would you rather have? A rear mounted no restrictions system is for sure better than a front mounted where it would be sitting next to a hot radiator and airflow would be restricted by having to pass through both of them
2. If cruising or going fast, the extra air flow from the car moving MIGHT give better A/C cooling. I’ve never seen figures to document that, and my own rear mounted A/C deals with German/French highways and stop and go in summer, without me having to turn the knob to full cool, it’s just working as designed
Engine cooling:
3. Who would dispute that the risk of overheating the engine is bigger when a hot restrictive A/C system is placed in front of the radiator?
So what are the pros and cons? There are two definite “cons”, 1. and 3., and one maybe “pro”, 2. Do the math, and save the time and money, and spend it on getting the original system to work as designed. Be cool
Mikael
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Boyd Casey [mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com]
Sendt: 3. juni 2014 01:15
Til: detomaso at poca.com
Emne: [DeTomaso] Moving ac condenser to front of car.
As some of you may recall I blew up my engine and was considering installing a Coyote engine. As much as I think the Coyote is a great engine I have decided to stick with a Cleveland. I have always wanted 180 degree headers and having just installed a super deluxe new AC stem last year the prospect of moving the condenser and hoses to the front of the car is the only thing that is standing in m way. When I upgraded I installed a very thin parallel flow condenser . I was wondering how much air flow restriction mooing the condenser to behind the radiator will cause. I have a "True" lay down radiator and sucker fans. Is there anything else I should worry about or take into consideration. I went 5 years with out having working AC and the new set up was blowing cold air at 42F so I don't want to go back to the "Sauna".
Boyd
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-------------- next part --------------
It's an old trick that if you're in a queue and your engine starts to
get too hot, you have to turn off the A/C. This applies only to a car
with condenser in front of course, but having a hot restrictive item
right in front of your radiator is the last thing you want.
And again, on all of the great trips you arranged where Helen and I've
had the pleasure to attend in a Pantera, when we did our maybe 100 km
highway cruises in hot French summer days, we had to put the A/C switch
on approx. 2/3, putting it on max was too cold for us. So a rear
mounted condenser can work just fine, when A/C doesn't work as well as
one would like, it's usually lack of R12/R134, lack of full closure for
heated water, thermostat issue. Moving the condenser up front is trying
to compensate for a problem, not correct it, in LEAN-speak.
The fact that some people were fortunate enough to get colder air after
moving condenser up front could be right, it's the "maybe" argument
below. But since moving the condenser up front requires system to be
emptied and filled, new hoses, maybe a more efficient condenser design
itself, I think we can't conclude that the positioning itself made a
difference.
Talking to an A/C guy I know, not getting the right temp is in 99% of
the cases due to either lack of R12/R134 or misadjusted cable/vacuum
operated heater cut off.
Mikael
Fra: Charles McCall [mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com]
Sendt: 4. juni 2014 12:46
Til: Mikael
Cc: Boyd Casey; Pantera list serve
Emne: Re: [DeTomaso] Moving ac condenser to front of car., no, don't.
I've read over the years numerous first-hand reports of people who have
mounted the condenser up front and have not noticed overheating
problems, but have noticed improved A/C performance. I even remember
reading an objetive report from someone who measured the temperature
coming out the vents before and and after moving the condenser, both at
around-town speeds and highway speeds. A/C efficiency was equal around
town with both setups, but the effectiveness dropped measurably with
the rear mounted setup as highway speed increased, and they only
measured up to 60 mph or so. A/C efficiency would no doubt continue to
drop, and perhaps even exponentially, at sustained 150 k/hr cruising.
Based on the number of reports I've read over the years, I have filed
away in my mind that this was a good mod for cars used at higher
cruising speeds, and would be of limited value for cars that just
cruise around town.
Names of the people who have tried this may be found in the archives.
(And Mikael will have the opportunity to talk to some of them next
month at Le Mans)
Just another perspective
On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 7:30 AM, Mikael <[1]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
wrote:
Boyd, allow me to paste in my earlier input on this. Nobody disagreed
back then, that could of course be because they think I'm beyond
repair... :-) Please read below...
--
It pops up once in a while: the idea of front mounted A/C. Before you
spend the time and money (unless you're rich and retired and needs to
get through the day), consider this:
It would have been easier and cheaper for DeTomaso to have the A/C in
the front, so why did they go to rear mounted? Very simply because
having two hot things close to one another doesn't help.
A/C:
1. If going slow or standing still in stop and go traffic, which
would you rather have? A rear mounted no restrictions system is for
sure better than a front mounted where it would be sitting next to a
hot radiator and airflow would be restricted by having to pass through
both of them
2. If cruising or going fast, the extra air flow from the car
moving MIGHT give better A/C cooling. I've never seen figures to
document that, and my own rear mounted A/C deals with German/French
highways and stop and go in summer, without me having to turn the knob
to full cool, it's just working as designed
Engine cooling:
3. Who would dispute that the risk of overheating the engine is
bigger when a hot restrictive A/C system is placed in front of the
radiator?
So what are the pros and cons? There are two definite "cons", 1. and
3., and one maybe "pro", 2. Do the math, and save the time and money,
and spend it on getting the original system to work as designed. Be
cool
Mikael
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Boyd Casey [mailto:[2]boyd411 at gmail.com]
Sendt: 3. juni 2014 01:15
Til: [3]detomaso at poca.com
Emne: [DeTomaso] Moving ac condenser to front of car.
As some of you may recall I blew up my engine and was considering
installing a Coyote engine. As much as I think the Coyote is a great
engine I have decided to stick with a Cleveland. I have always wanted
180 degree headers and having just installed a super deluxe new AC stem
last year the prospect of moving the condenser and hoses to the front
of the car is the only thing that is standing in m way. When I upgraded
I installed a very thin parallel flow condenser . I was wondering how
much air flow restriction mooing the condenser to behind the radiator
will cause. I have a "True" lay down radiator and sucker fans. Is there
anything else I should worry about or take into consideration. I went 5
years with out having working AC and the new set up was blowing cold
air at 42F so I don't want to go back to the "Sauna".
Boyd
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[4]DeTomaso at poca.com
[5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
Ingen virus fundet i denne meddelelse.
Kontrolleret af AVG - [6]www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virusdatabase: 3955/7618 - Udgivelsesdato:
03-06-2014
References
1. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
2. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
6. http://www.avg.com/
More information about the DeTomaso
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