[DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
Sean Korb
spkorb at gmail.com
Wed Jul 16 15:00:55 EDT 2014
It's hard to tell with a custom grind Isky. They make a lot of pretty
interesting flat tappet camshafts but I'm not familiar with their roller
line. If you don't have a cam card you really should make your own and get
the specification. A degree wheel and removing the front accessories and
water pump is kind of a pain but it really needs to be done.
That said, you can find TDC without doing all that work. Just pull a spark
plug on #1 and find it. Make sure it matches your harmonic balancer. It
does sound like timing since you are having trouble starting it when it is
hot,
My stock 1971 motor made 255HP at the wheels. Hydraulic stock grind on the
camshaft and 10.5:1 compression with stock heads. The CHI heads *could*
give you more power but unless you know your camshaft will take advantage
of it, the stock heads are already pretty darn good and you won't see that
much with just a head swap. If you are running something like 0.055 lift
or better with aggressive duration, you should really be getting more power
and it would be carburetor and timing to check next.
Oh hey! You're running solid rollers? Maybe your tappet clearance should
be adjusted. If they are running really loose that would rob you of a lot
of power. It would make a lot of noise too.
sean
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 2:20 PM, Robert Stroj <npdrs at maui.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> First thanks to all for your suggestions and sorry for delay on coming
> back; was two weeks traveling without the internet connection.
>
>
> My engine is not the one that was in the car; it is a 4 bolt 351C,
> here are all the engine spec as I got them from a previous owner:
>
>
> Engine
>
>
> CUI : 351 Cleveland 4V
>
>
> Heads : Australian (3) valve aluminum polished heads
>
> ($1,995)
>
> : Polish ($175)
>
>
> Intake : Polished aluminum Hi-Rise ($525)
>
> : Polish ($175)
>
>
> Carb : 780 CFM Holley 4-barrel carburetor
>
> ($512.99 Inc Shipping)
>
>
> Cable : PI MotorSport Throttle Cable ($155)
>
>
> Valves : Stainless Steel Exhaust/Intake valves ($900)
>
>
> Cam : ISKY Solid Roller Camshaft with Lifters
> ($275)
>
> Custom grind
>
>
> Rockers : Roller Rockers ($275)
>
>
> Chain : Duel Roller Chain ($57)
>
>
> Exhaust : GTS Coated Headers and Mufflers ($850)
>
>
> Water Pump: Aluminum High Flow ($208.65)
>
>
> Radiator : Aluminum Radiator Assembly Pantera
>
> Performance ($1,108.90)
>
>
> Starter : High Performance Starter ($165)
>
>
> Oil Pan : 10 Quart oil pan with windage tray
> ($400)
>
>
> Ignition : Mallory Unilite Distributor, Mallory
> Coil, Mallory Spark
>
> Plug Wires ($280)
>
>
>
>
> What I am the most worried about is the thing that car dies on idle
> after being driven hard and then it is really hard to start; once did
> not start at all.
>
> When hot like this it turns really hard, as if the battery would be
> low, but when cold it turns really well; my worry is that bearings
> could be really worn and once the oil gets thin it increases the
> friction inside the engine.
>
> The oil pressure gauge drops really low; when hot idling it just jumps
> between 0 and 1/4 of the gauge.
>
>
> It all looks like I will need to do a complete rebuild and will be
> looking to see which are good parts that I could successfully reuse;
> this is why Brent's motor configuration is really interesting as it
> uses same heads and intake manifold.
>
>
> I just got a lead to person that had a racing team using Mustang in
> German Turing championship and is willing to help; hope to meet him
> next week.
>
>
> All the best, Robert
>
>
> From: Pantdino [mailto:pantdino at aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 5:28 PM
> To: boyd411 at gmail.com
> Cc: npdrs at maui.net; bjbstewart at yahoo.com; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>
>
>
> "Torque really means a lot more but the way the engine runs and how the
> car drives is a lot more important then any dyne numbers. "
>
>
>
>
> HP is actually calculated from torque, and the HP number the dyno guy
> gives you is so full of "correction factors" it has to be taken with a
> grain of salt I think in terms of comparing it to what someone else
> gets on different dyno in a different city on a different day on a
> chassis vs engine dyno etc
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Boyd Casey <[1]boyd411 at gmail.com>
> To: Pantdino <[2]pantdino at aol.com>
> Cc: npdrs <[3]npdrs at maui.net>; Brent Stewart <[4]bjbstewart at yahoo.com>;
> detomaso <[5]detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Tue, Jul 1, 2014 5:05 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>
> Robert,
>
> Do you know if your 71 engine was the original engine that came with
> your Pantera? (a numbers matching engine). Around 90% of the Cleveland
> engines made were not "high performance" engines. This link explains
> how to help determine what type of engine yours was
> originally. [6]Cleveland guide even though your engine has good heads
> it may have low compression pistons. You will only know what you
> actually have when you get inside your engine. In the meantime you can
> do a compression check to make sure all your 8 cylinders have close to
> the same compression. You should also start with a good tune up. make
> sure you have the right plugs, make sure your timing is set correctly.
> Depending on your cam a 7550 CFM carb may be to big for your engine (
> with a stock 351 ci displacement and depending on your pistons
> compression ratio and your cam 750 cfm may be to big. Lots of people
> thing bigger is better. To big a carb will do much more harm then good
> when it comes to losing power. You also want to be sure your carb is
> jetted and set properly. Getting the most out of an engine is like
> navigating. You have to know where you are , before you can figure out
> how to get where you want to go. So you have to know what you have
> before you can figure out how to get the most out of it! HP numbers are
> just numbers. Torque really means a lot more but the way the engine
> runs and how the car drives is a lot more important then any dyne
> numbers. You want a car wit good throttle response, a car that revs up
> quickly when you hit the gas. Find a local mechanic that knows
> Cleveland engines and preferably Panteras as well. Figure out what you
> actually have and how to maximize it before you start throwing money at
> it. There are lots of good books on how to build Cleveland engines as
> well as some great web sites dedicated to Cleveland engines. Check out
> Clevelands forever (google it) or 351C.net. there are also numerous
> books available at Amazon.com. You can also find loads of free info on
> various forums on he web for free!
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Boyd
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Pantdino via DeTomaso
> <[7]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>
> It is a Holley vacuum secondary unit fitted by Steve Wilkinson-- he
> said jetted for a Pantera.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Stroj <[8]npdrs at maui.net>
> To: 'Brent Stewart' <[9]bjbstewart at yahoo.com>; detomaso
> <[10]detomaso at poca.com>
>
> Sent: Tue, Jul 1, 2014 11:58 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
>
> Hi Brent,
> Thanks a lot, this is really good info!
> What carburetor are you using?
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> From: Brent Stewart [[1]mailto:[11]bjbstewart at yahoo.com]
>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 5:32 AM
>
> To: Robert Stroj; [2][12]detomaso at poca.com
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
> Hi Robert,
> I have the same CHI heads and intake. Here are my build specs
> incase
> you want to utilize those in an engine update:
> ENGINE SPECS:
> Bennett Racing Dyno'd the engine and provided the spec sheet. The
> 351C
> based 392 CID engine made 571 HP and 517 TQ @ 5800 RPM. Here are
> the
> details of the build:
> Parts list
> . SCAT 3.85 Crankshaft, internally balanced
> . SCAT 6.00 H Beam Rods
> . Custom Ross Pistons
> . Custom Bennett Racing Hydraulic Roller Cam
> . Superformance Balancer
> . Crane Link Bar Hydraulic Roller Lifters
> . Comp Cams Pushrods
> . Harland Sharp 4005 Roller Rockers
> . CHI 228 3V aluminum Heads
> . CHI high-rise intake
> Build specs
> . Bore: 4.030
> . Crank: 3.850 9000 series
> . Cam: 3018F-3039B 112
> o Intake Lobe: 242 @ .050 .366 LL
> o Exhaust Lobe: 250 @ .050 .363 LL
> o Lobe Separation: 112
> . Pushrods: 7.850 Comp Cams HD
>
> On Tuesday, July 1, 2014 8:06 AM, Robert Stroj
> <[1][3][13]npdrs at maui.net>
>
> wrote:
> So, finally, my '71 Pantera got through all the import procedures
> and
> is now
> street legal in Europe/Germany!
> Car is in very good shape, zero rust anywhere, suspension feels very
> good to
> drive (height adjustable koni set), brakes work well (wilwood
> conversion),
> but there is something not right with the motor.
> Engine is a older 351C rebuild using original crankshaft and
> pistons.
> Some
> years later it was fitted with CHI 3V heads and intake system, SS
> valves,
> 780 Holley and GTS exhaust system.
> When driving the cart was pulling well, but definitely was not
> feeling
> as
> 400-500HP car; this is what I was sort of expecting after talking to
> person
> who rebuild the engine as well as previous owner...it did not really
> feel as
> 300HP car...
> I had a chance to put it on the dyno at the friend's garage and got
> the
> following graph (please see the attached image); this are graphs for
> adjusted power on the flywheel after recalculating looses between
> engine and
> wheels.
> What was really interesting is that he had a chance to test 2 other
> panteras
> recently; one was a client that had rebuilt engine using some
> "special
> parts", bt I am not sure of the actual spec while the other one was
> black
> GR4 replica that is currently listed for sale in Germany and was
> built
> by
> Braun Motorsport:
>
>
> [2][4][14]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-
> 4-m-his
>
> t-strass
>
> enzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumb
> er=1&
>
> __lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DE
> SCEND
>
> ING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=fa
> lse&m
>
> akeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreet
> ext=f
> alse&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT
> So, finally, my engine did not even reach 250HP, another rebuild
> pantera
> motor did just over 300HP while Braun pantera did very nice 389HP;
> there is
> also Ford GT40 with racing motor in there; it did 410hp but at much
> higher
> RPM.
> The most impressive about the Braun car is how smooth the power
> curve
> is.
> So, now I am wondering where to go from here; could it be that it is
> as
> simple as wrong cam choice?
> If going to do a rebuild is there a good configuration someone could
> suggest
> that would use CHI3V heads and intake, as I already got those?
> As well, I had something strange happen twice with the gearbox; it
> got
> out
> of the 3rd gear by itself; would someone know if this could be due
> to
> any
> wrong linkage adjustment?
> Thanks, Robert
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
>
> [3][5][15]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [4][6][16]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> References
> 1. [7]mailto:[17]npdrs at maui.net
> 2.
> [8][18]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m
> -hist-s
> trass
> 3. [9]mailto:[19]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 4. [10][20]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
>
> [11][21]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [12][22]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> References
> 1. mailto:[23]bjbstewart at yahoo.com?
> 2. mailto:[24]detomaso at poca.com
> 3. mailto:[25]npdrs at maui.net
> 4.
> [26]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hi
> s
> 5. mailto:[27]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 6. [28]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 7. mailto:[29]npdrs at maui.net?
> 8.
> [30]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hi
> st-strass
> 9. mailto:[31]DeTomaso at poca.com?
> 10. [32]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 11. mailto:[33]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 12. [34]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [35]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [36]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
> 2. mailto:pantdino at aol.com
> 3. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
> 4. mailto:bjbstewart at yahoo.com
> 5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 6.
> http://www.ebay.com/gds/Ford-351-Cleveland-Engines-Key-Facts-Information-/10000000001410755/g.html
> 7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 8. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
> 9. mailto:bjbstewart at yahoo.com
> 10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 11. mailto:bjbstewart at yahoo.com
> 12. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 13. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
> 14. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-his
> 15. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 16. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 17. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
> 18.
> http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-s
> 19. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 20. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 21. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 22. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 23. mailto:bjbstewart at yahoo.com
> 24. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 25. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
> 26. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-his
> 27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 29. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
> 30.
> http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
> 31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 33. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 34. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 35. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 36. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
--
Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
-------------- next part --------------
It's hard to tell with a custom grind Isky. A They make a lot of pretty
interesting flat tappet camshafts but I'm not familiar with their
roller line. A If you don't have a cam card you really should make your
own and get the specification. A A degree wheel and removing the front
accessories and water pump is kind of a pain but it really needs to be
done.
That said, you can find TDC without doing all that work. A Just pull a
spark plug on #1 and find it. A Make sure it matches your harmonic
balancer. A It does sound like timing since you are having trouble
starting it when it is hot,
My stock 1971 motor made 255HP at the wheels. A Hydraulic stock grind
on the camshaft and 10.5:1 compression with stock heads. A The CHI
heads *could* give you more power but unless you know your camshaft
will take advantage of it, the stock heads are already pretty darn good
and you won't see that much with just a head swap. A If you are running
something like 0.055 lift or better with aggressive duration, you
should really be getting more power and it would be carburetor and
timing to check next.
Oh hey! A You're running solid rollers? A Maybe your tappet clearance
should be adjusted. A If they are running really loose that would rob
you of a lot of power. A It would make a lot of noise too.
sean
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 2:20 PM, Robert Stroj <[1]npdrs at maui.net>
wrote:
A A Hi,
A A First thanks to all for your suggestions and sorry for delay on
coming
A A back; was two weeks traveling without the internet connection.
A A My engine is not the one that was in the car; it is a A 4 bolt
351C,
A A here are all the engine A spec as I got them from a previous
owner:
A A Engine
A A CUI A A A A A A A A A : A A A A A 351 Cleveland 4V
A A Heads A : A A A A A Australian (3) valve aluminum polished
heads
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A ($1,995)
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A : A A A A A Polish
($175)
A A Intake A : A A A A A Polished aluminum Hi-Rise ($525)
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A : A A A A A Polish
($175)
A A Carb A A A A A A A A : A A A A A 780 CFM Holley
4-barrel carburetor
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A ($512.99
Inc Shipping)
A A Cable A : A A A A A PI MotorSport Throttle Cable ($155)
A A Valves : A A A A A Stainless Steel Exhaust/Intake valves
($900)
A A Cam A A A A A A A A : A A A A A ISKY Solid Roller
Camshaft with Lifters
A A ($275)
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Custom
grind
A A Rockers A A A A A : A A A A A Roller Rockers ($275)
A A Chain A : A A A A A Duel Roller Chain ($57)
A A Exhaust A A A A A : A A A A A GTS Coated Headers and
Mufflers ($850)
A A Water Pump: A Aluminum High Flow ($208.65)
A A Radiator A A A A A : A A A A A Aluminum Radiator
Assembly Pantera
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A
A Performance ($1,108.90)
A A Starter : A A A A A High Performance Starter ($165)
A A Oil Pan A A A A A A : A A A A A 10 Quart oil pan with
windage tray
A A ($400)
A A Ignition A A A A A A : A A A A A Mallory Unilite
Distributor, Mallory
A A Coil, Mallory Spark
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Plug
Wires ($280)
A A What I am the most worried about is the thing that car dies on
idle
A A after being driven hard and then it is really hard to start;
once did
A A not start at all.
A A When hot like this it turns really hard, as if the battery
would be
A A low, but when cold it turns really well; my worry is that
bearings
A A could be really worn and once the oil gets thin it increases
the
A A friction inside the engine.
A A The oil pressure gauge drops really low; when hot idling it
just jumps
A A between 0 and 1/4 of the gauge.
A A It all looks like I will need to do a complete rebuild and will
be
A A looking to see which are good parts that I could successfully
reuse;
A A this is why Brent's motor configuration is really interesting
as it
A A uses same heads and intake manifold.
A A I just got a lead to person that had a racing team using
Mustang in
A A German Turing championship and is willing to help; hope to meet
him
A A next week.
A A All the best, Robert
A A From: Pantdino [mailto:[2]pantdino at aol.com]
A A Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 5:28 PM
A A To: [3]boyd411 at gmail.com
A A Cc: [4]npdrs at maui.net; [5]bjbstewart at yahoo.com;
[6]detomaso at poca.com
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
A A "Torque really means a lot more but the way the engine runs and
how the
A A car drives is a lot more important then any dyne numbers. "
A A HP is actually calculated from torque, and the HP number the dyno
guy
A A gives you is so full of "correction factors" it has to be taken
with a
A A grain of salt I think in terms of comparing it to what someone
else
A A gets on different dyno in a different city on a different day on a
A A chassis vs engine dyno etc
A A -----Original Message-----
A A From: Boyd Casey <[1][7]boyd411 at gmail.com>
A A To: Pantdino <[2][8]pantdino at aol.com>
A A Cc: npdrs <[3][9]npdrs at maui.net>; Brent Stewart
<[4][10]bjbstewart at yahoo.com>;
A A detomaso <[5][11]detomaso at poca.com>
A A Sent: Tue, Jul 1, 2014 5:05 pm
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
A A Robert,
A A Do you know if your 71 engine was the original engine that came
with
A A your Pantera? (a numbers matching engine). Around 90% of the
Cleveland
A A engines made were not "high performance" engines. This link
explains
A A how to help determine what type of engine yours was
A A originally. [6]Cleveland guide A even though your engine has
good heads
A A it may have low compression pistons. You will only know what you
A A actually have when you get inside your engine. In the meantime you
can
A A do a compression check to make sure all your 8 cylinders have
close to
A A the same compression. You should also start with a good tune up.
make
A A sure you have the right plugs, make sure your timing is set
correctly.
A A Depending on your cam a 7550 CFM carb may be to big for your
engine (
A A with a stock 351 ci displacement A and depending on your pistons
A A compression ratio and your cam 750 cfm may be to big. Lots of
people
A A thing bigger is better. To big a carb will do much more harm then
good
A A when it comes to losing power. A You also want to be sure your
carb is
A A jetted and set properly. Getting the most out of an engine is like
A A navigating. You have to know where you are , before you can figure
out
A A how to get where you want to go. So you have to know what you have
A A before you can figure out how to get the most out of it! HP
numbers are
A A just numbers. Torque really means a lot more but the way the
engine
A A runs and how the car drives is a lot more important then any dyne
A A numbers. You want a car wit good throttle response, a car that
revs up
A A quickly when you hit the gas. Find a local mechanic that knows
A A Cleveland engines and preferably Panteras as well. Figure out what
you
A A actually have and how to maximize it before you start throwing
money at
A A it. There are lots of good books on how to build Cleveland engines
as
A A well as some great web sites dedicated to Cleveland engines.
A Check out
A A Clevelands forever (google it) or 351C.net. there are also
numerous
A A books available at Amazon.com. You can also find loads of free
info on
A A various forums on he web for free!
A A Good Luck!
A A Boyd
A A On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Pantdino via DeTomaso
A A <[7][12]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
A A A It is a Holley vacuum secondary unit fitted by Steve
Wilkinson-- he
A A A said jetted for a Pantera.
A A A -----Original Message-----
A A A From: Robert Stroj <[8][13]npdrs at maui.net>
A A A To: 'Brent Stewart' <[9][14]bjbstewart at yahoo.com>; detomaso
A A A <[10][15]detomaso at poca.com>
A A A Sent: Tue, Jul 1, 2014 11:58 am
A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
A A A Hi Brent,
A A A Thanks a lot, this is really good info!
A A A What carburetor are you using?
A A A Cheers,
A A A Robert
A A A From: Brent Stewart
[[1]mailto:[11][16]bjbstewart at yahoo.com]
A A A Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 5:32 AM
A A A To: Robert Stroj; [2][12][17]detomaso at poca.com
A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
A A A Hi Robert,
A A A I have the same CHI heads and intake. A Here are my build
specs
A A incase
A A A you want to utilize those in an engine update:
A A A ENGINE SPECS:
A A A Bennett Racing Dyno'd the engine and provided the spec sheet.
A The
A A 351C
A A A based 392 CID engine made 571 HP and 517 TQ @ 5800 RPM. A Here
are
A A the
A A A details of the build:
A A A Parts list
A A A . A A A A SCAT 3.85 Crankshaft, internally balanced
A A A . A A A A SCAT 6.00 H Beam Rods
A A A . A A A A Custom Ross Pistons
A A A . A A A A Custom Bennett Racing Hydraulic Roller Cam
A A A . A A A A Superformance Balancer
A A A . A A A A Crane Link Bar Hydraulic Roller Lifters
A A A . A A A A Comp Cams Pushrods
A A A . A A A A Harland Sharp 4005 Roller Rockers
A A A . A A A A CHI 228 3V aluminum Heads
A A A . A A A A CHI high-rise intake
A A A Build specs
A A A . A A A A Bore: 4.030
A A A . A A A A Crank: 3.850 9000 series
A A A . A A A A Cam: 3018F-3039B 112
A A A o A Intake Lobe: 242 @ .050 .366 LL
A A A o A Exhaust Lobe: 250 @ .050 .363 LL
A A A o A Lobe Separation: 112
A A A . A A A A Pushrods: 7.850 Comp Cams HD
A A A On Tuesday, July 1, 2014 8:06 AM, Robert Stroj
A A <[1][3][13][18]npdrs at maui.net>
A A A wrote:
A A A So, finally, my '71 Pantera got through all the import
procedures
A A and
A A A is now
A A A street legal in Europe/Germany!
A A A Car is in very good shape, zero rust anywhere, suspension
feels very
A A A good to
A A A drive (height adjustable koni set), brakes work well (wilwood
A A A conversion),
A A A but there is something not right with the motor.
A A A Engine is a older 351C rebuild using original crankshaft and
A A pistons.
A A A Some
A A A years later it was fitted with CHI 3V heads and intake system,
SS
A A A valves,
A A A 780 Holley and GTS exhaust system.
A A A When driving the cart was pulling well, but definitely was not
A A feeling
A A A as
A A A 400-500HP car; this is what I was sort of expecting after
talking to
A A A person
A A A who rebuild the engine as well as previous owner...it did not
really
A A A feel as
A A A 300HP car...
A A A I had a chance to put it on the dyno at the friend's garage
and got
A A the
A A A following graph (please see the attached image); this are
graphs for
A A A adjusted power on the flywheel after recalculating looses
between
A A A engine and
A A A wheels.
A A A What was really interesting is that he had a chance to test 2
other
A A A panteras
A A A recently; one was a client that had rebuilt engine using some
A A "special
A A A parts", bt I am not sure of the actual spec while the other
one was
A A A black
A A A GR4 replica that is currently listed for sale in Germany and
was
A A built
A A A by
A A A Braun Motorsport:
A
A [2][4][14][19]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-panter
a-gruppe-
A A 4-m-his
A A A t-strass
A
A enzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNu
mb
A A A er=1&
A
A __lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=
DE
A A A SCEND
A
A ING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=
fa
A A A lse&m
A
A akeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFre
et
A A A ext=f
A A A alse&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT
A A A So, finally, my engine did not even reach 250HP, another
rebuild
A A A pantera
A A A motor did just over 300HP while Braun pantera did very nice
389HP;
A A A there is
A A A also Ford GT40 with racing motor in there; it did 410hp but at
much
A A A higher
A A A RPM.
A A A The most impressive about the Braun car is how smooth the
power
A A curve
A A A is.
A A A So, now I am wondering where to go from here; could it be that
it is
A A as
A A A simple as wrong cam choice?
A A A If going to do a rebuild is there a good configuration someone
could
A A A suggest
A A A that would use CHI3V heads and intake, as I already got those?
A A A As well, I had something strange happen twice with the
gearbox; it
A A got
A A A out
A A A of the 3rd gear by itself; would someone know if this could be
due
A A to
A A A any
A A A wrong linkage adjustment?
A A A Thanks, Robert
A A A _______________________________________________
A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A A DeTomaso mailing list
A A A [3][5][15][20]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A
[4][6][16][21]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A References
A A A 1. [7]mailto:[17][22]npdrs at maui.net
A A A 2.
A
A [8][18][23]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-g
ruppe-4-m
A A -hist-s
A A trass
A A A 3. [9]mailto:[19][24]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A 4.
[10][20][25]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A _______________________________________________
A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A DeTomaso mailing list
A A [11][21][26]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A [12][22][27]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A References
A A A 1. mailto:[23][28]bjbstewart at yahoo.com?
A A A 2. mailto:[24][29]detomaso at poca.com
A A A 3. mailto:[25][30]npdrs at maui.net
A A A 4.
A
A [26][31]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-grup
pe-4-m-hi
A A s
A A A 5. mailto:[27][32]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A 6.
[28][33]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A 7. mailto:[29][34]npdrs at maui.net?
A A A 8.
A
A [30][35]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-grup
pe-4-m-hi
A A st-strass
A A A 9. mailto:[31][36]DeTomaso at poca.com?
A A A 10.
[32][37]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A 11. mailto:[33][38]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A 12.
[34][39]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A _______________________________________________
A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A DeTomaso mailing list
A A [35][40]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A [36][41]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
A A 1. mailto:[42]boyd411 at gmail.com
A A 2. mailto:[43]pantdino at aol.com
A A 3. mailto:[44]npdrs at maui.net
A A 4. mailto:[45]bjbstewart at yahoo.com
A A 5. mailto:[46]detomaso at poca.com
A A 6.
[47]http://www.ebay.com/gds/Ford-351-Cleveland-Engines-Key-Facts-Inf
ormation-/10000000001410755/g.html
A A 7. mailto:[48]detomaso at poca.com
A A 8. mailto:[49]npdrs at maui.net
A A 9. mailto:[50]bjbstewart at yahoo.com
A 10. mailto:[51]detomaso at poca.com
A 11. mailto:[52]bjbstewart at yahoo.com
A 12. mailto:[53]detomaso at poca.com
A 13. mailto:[54]npdrs at maui.net
A 14.
[55]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m
-his
A 15. mailto:[56]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 16. [57]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 17. mailto:[58]npdrs at maui.net
A 18.
[59]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m
-hist-s
A 19. mailto:[60]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 20. [61]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 21. mailto:[62]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 22. [63]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 23. mailto:[64]bjbstewart at yahoo.com
A 24. mailto:[65]detomaso at poca.com
A 25. mailto:[66]npdrs at maui.net
A 26.
[67]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m
-his
A 27. mailto:[68]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 28. [69]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 29. mailto:[70]npdrs at maui.net
A 30.
[71]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m
-hist-strass
A 31. mailto:[72]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 32. [73]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 33. mailto:[74]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 34. [75]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 35. mailto:[76]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 36. [77]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[78]DeTomaso at poca.com
[79]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
--
Sean Korb [80]spkorb at spkorb.org [81]http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
#1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.A They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
References
1. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
2. mailto:pantdino at aol.com
3. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
4. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
5. mailto:bjbstewart at yahoo.com
6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
7. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
8. mailto:pantdino at aol.com
9. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
10. mailto:bjbstewart at yahoo.com
11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
12. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
13. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
14. mailto:bjbstewart at yahoo.com
15. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
16. mailto:bjbstewart at yahoo.com
17. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
18. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
19. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-
20. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
21. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
22. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
23. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m
24. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
25. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
26. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
27. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
28. mailto:bjbstewart at yahoo.com
29. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
30. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
31. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hi
32. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
33. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
34. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
35. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hi
36. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
37. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
38. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
39. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
40. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
41. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
42. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
43. mailto:pantdino at aol.com
44. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
45. mailto:bjbstewart at yahoo.com
46. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
47. http://www.ebay.com/gds/Ford-351-Cleveland-Engines-Key-Facts-Information-/10000000001410755/g.html
48. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
49. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
50. mailto:bjbstewart at yahoo.com
51. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
52. mailto:bjbstewart at yahoo.com
53. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
54. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
55. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-his
56. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
57. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
58. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
59. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-s
60. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
61. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
62. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
63. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
64. mailto:bjbstewart at yahoo.com
65. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
66. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
67. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-his
68. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
69. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
70. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
71. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
72. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
73. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
74. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
75. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
76. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
77. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
78. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
79. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
80. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
81. http://www.spkorb.org/
More information about the DeTomaso
mailing list