[DeTomaso] Cleveland HP limits

Will Kooiman will.kooiman at gmail.com
Tue Jul 15 22:50:45 EDT 2014 

I agree.

500HP is probably a safe limit and I don¹t know, 6,000 RPM - on a stock
block, built right.  Sure you can go higher, but it is gambling at a point.

But the SVO block limits are much much higher.  You could go 700HP and
7,000 RPM all day long on an SVO block, built right.

Remember, stock heads, and especially SVO heads will support much more HP
and RPM than your stock block will handle.


On 7/15/14, 10:29 AM, "Kirby Schrader" <kirby.schrader at gmail.com> wrote:

>   On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:26 PM, Julian Kift
>   <[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>     A A A Before you spend any money on a build take the block and get
>     the
>     A  A cylinder wall thickness sonic checked. Just because it's a
>     stock block
>     A  A doesn't guarantee it is free of core shift.
>
>   Indeed. I had heard this stated for many years and didn't think much of
>   it.
>   Until I had a completely stock Cleveland block bored out .020".
>   Three cylinders had daylight showing through to the other side....
>   Since then, I've been a convert and started using SVO blocks.A
>   You end up building a 'Clevor', but they certainly stay together
>   better.
>   I had a Keith Craft engine built with an iron SVO block and some good
>   old 4V iron heads. It's 393ci and did 544HP on the dyno.
>   Very drive-able and I feel much more relaxed about beating on it.
>   :-)
>   FWIW,
>   Kirby
>   A
>
>     Better still if you are
>     A  A spending $$ on all those other parts why not buy an aftermarket
>     iron
>     A  A block of the likes that MME or Tod Buttermore are casting, then
>     you can
>     A  A increase the HP number somewhat and for sure be the fastest guy
>     on the
>     A  A bench.
>     A  A Julian
>     A  A Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 22:57:31 -0400
>     A  A From: [2]boyd411 at gmail.com
>     A  A To: [3]cengles at cox.net
>     A  A CC: [4]detomaso at poca.com
>     A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cleveland HP limits
>
>   Chuck,
>   I am working on a build using a sound 4 bolt main, forged crank, shot
>   peened and polished rods , Ported A3 heads built with high quality
>   roller
>   rockers a springs, Forged flat top springs, Arp fasteners melling oil
>   pump,
>   180 degree headers, a cust ground HR roller cam and lifters. And an IR
>   efi
>   system. The reason for my question is because the dynomation predicts
>   HP in
>   the 550- 600 range @ 6500 rpm. Someone said to me that they thought 500
>   hp
>   was the safe limit for a stock Cleveland iron block. I have heard of
>   stroked Cleveland iron blocks making over 600 hp so was curious to know
>   if
>   there was an accepted HP limit that one would be advised not to exceed.
>   (
>   Like piston speed) Not how much HP or torque CAN be made but how much
>   can
>   the block withstand (assuming you are using the best parts so that the
>   block would fail before the rotating assembly or a valve something like
>   one
>   of the mains letting go or the engine exploding. I hope this makes my
>   question more clear.
>
>   On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:30 PM, Charles Engles <[5]cengles at cox.net>
>   wrote:
>   > Dear Boyd,
>   >
>   >
>   > A  A  A  A  A  Oh, boy. A  An opinion question.................
>   >
>   >
>
>   > A  A  A  A  A  See below.
>   >
>   > "Greetings Pantera brethren ! Is there an accepted HP limit for a
>
>     > Cleveland four bolt main iron block at it's normal displacement?
>     No A over
>
>   > bore, stock stroke, natural aspirated. Using heads , headers, cam,
>   > ignition, all the trick valve work , porting polishing, strongest
>   possible
>   > rotating assembly.
>   > Is there a limit that one should not exceed? 550hp, 575 hp, 600 hp
>   higher?
>
>     > If it is possible to reach A these HP numbers while not exceeding
>     7000 rpm
>
>   > what is the DO NOT EXCEED LIMIT?"
>   >
>   >
>
>     > 1) A Answer: it all depends on dozens and dozens of details. A
>     Block
>
>   > quality, budget, application for street, track days or ORR or drag
>   racing,
>   > carb v. efi., dollars, etc, etc.
>   >
>   >
>
>     > 2) A New question: Given a reasonable Cleveland block, reasonable
>     4V quench
>
>   > heads, stock rotating assembly, new pistons, new intake manifold and
>   a
>
>     > reasonable budget (what does that mean?) what can you do? A  Well,
>     it
>     > depends. A  It depends on the application. A It depends on the
>     machinist and
>     > the engine builder. A I am not an engine expert, but I have built
>     four
>
>   > engines and I am about to finish another one and I am making plans
>   for the
>
>     > next one. A  Facts: a rookie can build a 400 hp engine with stock
>     block,
>     > crank, rods and heads plus after market bits. A Rpm max about 6000
>     before
>     > valve float. A  More attention to detail can result in a 485 hp
>     engine and a
>     > 6,500 rpm limit before valve float. A The current engine with the
>     same
>
>   > formula but pushed a little harder with a lighter and more expensive
>   valve
>
>     > train is expected to see 500 or so HP with a 7000 rpm limit. A
>     The cost
>     > goes up with HP and rpm limit. A  The higher goal you set will
>     require
>     > higher dollars.
>     >
>     > 3) A I expect that given solid lifters, an aggressive cam, high
>     compression
>
>   > ratio, race gas, EFI and a relatively short functional life span
>   numbers
>   > north of 550 hp and 7000 rpm can be obtained.
>   >
>   >
>
>   > A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A Warmest regards, A Chuck Engles
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   A  A _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum
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>References
>
>   1. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>   2. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>   3. mailto:cengles at cox.net
>   4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   5. mailto:cengles at cox.net
>   6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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