[DeTomaso] Control arm bushings

jderyke at aol.com jderyke at aol.com
Wed Jul 2 03:21:55 EDT 2014 

The idea is simple, John. The Pantera was delivered with far too little caster for the size of the tires now being used and the speeds the car can attain. So stability problems often show up. The max caster a Pantera can have adjusted in is about  -2.6 degrees. This is roughly half what has been found to work well and is about 1/3 what most Corvettes of the period used. The mitigating fact is, as caster is added, steering effort goes up and 'Vettes mostly have power steering.... 

By using offset upper a-arm bushings, caster can go to about -4 degrees (but is adjustable back down if required, by shifting ball joint shims), and shaving the inner edge of the upper balljoint carrier offsets it a further -0.5 degree or so back. This combination does not make steering too heavy at low speeds and does stabilize the steering at high speeds as well as eliminating shimmy and tram-lining, especially with very wide front tires. Offsetting the lower a-arms as well as the uppers can add another 1-1/2 degrees for around  -6 degrees total, which in my opinion DOES make low and medium speed steering uncomfortably heavy unless you add power steering.

There are a host of other adjustments that can be done to our rather sophisticated suspensions (mostly the front) to trim it to virtually everyone's preferences: bump-steering, ackermann-toe, caster/camber/toe-in and others. I've written articles about them in the past and have tried them all on our '72 L model street car (my wife is also a driver of our car) so there should be no surprises to anyone. E-mail me privately for any details you're curious about- most here have heard it all before. Cheers- J Deryke, POCA Tech Editor


On 7/1/2014 5:30 PM, John Donahue wrote:
 Stupid question: what are offset bushings?

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Timko <thedrol at pobox.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tue, Jul 1, 2014 3:39 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Control arm bushings


They are a-arm bushings that offset the arms forward/back to increase 
the caster of the front spindle.  One a-arm goes foward, the other goes 
backward.  I forget which, goes which way.

Paul
#9270

On 7/1/2014 5:30 PM, John Donahue wrote:
> Stupid question: what are offset bushings?
>
> On Jul 1, 2014, at 12:57 PM, B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>
>    Ken,
>    I now have an order placed with Marino, Thanks.
>
>    Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
>    ! )
>      __________________________________________________________________
>
>    From: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
>    To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Pantera forum <detomaso at poca.com>
>    Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 2:35 PM
>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Control arm bushings
>      Thanks Ken,
>      I will try them again.
>      Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not
>    be
>      ! )
>        __________________________________________________________________
>      From: Ken Green <[1]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>      To: B Hower <[2]b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>; Pantera forum
>    <[3]detomaso at poca.com>
>      Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 1:37 PM
>      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Control arm bushings
>      I talked to Marino about a month ago and he said he makes the offset
>      bushings whenever someone want them.
>      Ken
>      From: B Hower via DeTomaso <[4]detomaso at poca.com>
>      To: Pantera forum <[5]detomaso at poca.com>
>      Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 9:37 AM
>      Subject: [DeTomaso] Control arm bushings
>        Hi all,
>        I'm in need of a set of control arm bushings and want fronts to be
>    of
>        the off set style. Control arms would now not have any thing
>      installed.
>        It appears that Marino no longer handles the Pantera control arm
>        bushings.
>        Who handles such at present and what are some of my choices as to
>        material. Use plans are for street, road race, and maybe some
>      autocross
>        or track.
>        Any and all help would be appreciated.
>        Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not
>      be
>        ! )
>      _______________________________________________
>      Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>      DeTomaso mailing list
>      [1][6]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      [2][7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>    References
>      1. mailto:[8]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      2. [9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>    _______________________________________________
>    Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>    DeTomaso mailing list
>    [10]DeTomaso at poca.com
>    [11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
>    1. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
>    2. mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
>    3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>    4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>    5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>    6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>    7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>    8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>    9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
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> DeTomaso mailing list
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-------------- next part --------------
   The idea is simple, John. The Pantera was delivered with far too little
   caster for the size of the tires now being used and the speeds the car
   can attain. So stability problems often show up. The max caster a
   Pantera can have adjusted in is about  -2.6 degrees. This is roughly
   half what has been found to work well and is about 1/3 what most
   Corvettes of the period used. The mitigating fact is, as caster is
   added, steering effort goes up and 'Vettes mostly have power
   steering....
   By using offset upper a-arm bushings, caster can go to about -4 degrees
   (but is adjustable back down if required, by shifting ball joint
   shims), and shaving the inner edge of the upper balljoint carrier
   offsets it a further -0.5 degree or so back. This combination does not
   make steering too heavy at low speeds and does stabilize the steering
   at high speeds as well as eliminating shimmy and tram-lining,
   especially with very wide front tires. Offsetting the lower a-arms as
   well as the uppers can add another 1-1/2 degrees for around  -6 degrees
   total, which in my opinion DOES make low and medium speed steering
   uncomfortably heavy unless you add power steering.
   There are a host of other adjustments that can be done to our rather
   sophisticated suspensions (mostly the front) to trim it to virtually
   everyone's preferences: bump-steering, ackermann-toe,
   caster/camber/toe-in and others. I've written articles about them in
   the past and have tried them all on our '72 L model street car (my wife
   is also a driver of our car) so there should be no surprises to anyone.
   E-mail me privately for any details you're curious about- most here
   have heard it all before. Cheers- J Deryke, POCA Tech Editor

On 7/1/2014 5:30 PM, John Donahue wrote:
 Stupid question: what are offset bushings?

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Paul Timko <thedrol at pobox.com>
   To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
   Sent: Tue, Jul 1, 2014 3:39 pm
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Control arm bushings
They are a-arm bushings that offset the arms forward/back to increase
the caster of the front spindle.  One a-arm goes foward, the other goes
backward.  I forget which, goes which way.

Paul
#9270

On 7/1/2014 5:30 PM, John Donahue wrote:
> Stupid question: what are offset bushings?
>
> On Jul 1, 2014, at 12:57 PM, B Hower via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso at poca.com> wrote
:
>
>    Ken,
>    I now have an order placed with Marino, Thanks.
>
>    Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
>    ! )
>      __________________________________________________________________
>
>    From: B Hower via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso at poca.com>
>    To: Ken Green <[3]kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Pantera forum <[4]detomaso at poca.co
m>
>    Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 2:35 PM
>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Control arm bushings
>      Thanks Ken,
>      I will try them again.
>      Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not
>    be
>      ! )
>        __________________________________________________________________
>      From: Ken Green <[1][5]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>      To: B Hower <[2][6]b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>; Pantera forum
>    <[3][7]detomaso at poca.com>
>      Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 1:37 PM
>      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Control arm bushings
>      I talked to Marino about a month ago and he said he makes the offset
>      bushings whenever someone want them.
>      Ken
>      From: B Hower via DeTomaso <[4][8]detomaso at poca.com>
>      To: Pantera forum <[5][9]detomaso at poca.com>
>      Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 9:37 AM
>      Subject: [DeTomaso] Control arm bushings
>        Hi all,
>        I'm in need of a set of control arm bushings and want fronts to be
>    of
>        the off set style. Control arms would now not have any thing
>      installed.
>        It appears that Marino no longer handles the Pantera control arm
>        bushings.
>        Who handles such at present and what are some of my choices as to
>        material. Use plans are for street, road race, and maybe some
>      autocross
>        or track.
>        Any and all help would be appreciated.
>        Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not
>      be
>        ! )
>      _______________________________________________
>      Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>      DeTomaso mailing list
>      [1][6][10]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      [2][7][11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>    References
>      1. [12]mailto:[8]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      2. [9][13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>    _______________________________________________
>    Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>    DeTomaso mailing list
>    [10][14]DeTomaso at poca.com
>    [11][15]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
>    1. [16]mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
>    2. [17]mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
>    3. [18]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>    4. [19]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>    5. [20]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>    6. [21]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>    7. [22]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>    8. [23]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>    9. [24]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   10. [25]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   11. [26]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [27]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [28]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [29]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [30]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>

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References

   1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   3. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   5. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   6. mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
   7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   8. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   9. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  12. mailto:[8]DeTomaso at poca.com?
  13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  15. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  16. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com?
  17. mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com?
  18. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
  19. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
  20. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
  21. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
  22. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
  24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  25. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
  26. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  29. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  30. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

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