[DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth

Tue Jul 1 16:05:49 EDT 2014

I certainly hope so! Internal repairs to the ZF will be heart-stopping expensive! If you have the Pantera Owners Manual that should have come with the car, there is a procedure inside on adjusting the gearshift stick inside the car so all gears are fully selected. If not, it's available from all the Pantera vendors, and probably from Roland Jaeckel in Germany. Roland has LOTS of parts and experience with all DeTomasos and will certainly be able to help.Try reashing him at <detomaso at gmx.com>. 

As well, I had something strange happen twice with the gearbox; it got out
of the 3rd gear by itself; would someone know if this could be due to any
wrong linkage adjustment?

-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
To: npdrs <npdrs at maui.net>; Brent Stewart <bjbstewart at yahoo.com>; DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tue, Jul 1, 2014 10:12 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth

   Any idea what your cam specs are?  My stock late 72 351C with an
   Edelbrock F351 intake, Mallory Unilite electronic ignition, and Hall
   Big Bore headers with 90,000 original miles made 250 HP at the rear
   wheels.  Check your tune. And do you have a new harmonic balancer on
   that engine?  An old damper/balancer may have slipped, which means your
   timing may be WAY off. Sounds like something is definitely amiss.
On Tuesday, July 1, 2014 8:06
 AM, Robert Stroj <[1]npdrs at maui.net> wrote:

So, finally, my '71 Pantera got through all the import procedures and is now
street legal in Europe/Germany!
Car is in very good shape, zero rust anywhere, suspension feels very good to
drive (height adjustable koni set), brakes work well (wilwood conversion),
but there is something not right with the motor.
Engine is a older 351C rebuild using original crankshaft and pistons. Some
years later it was fitted with CHI 3V heads and intake system, SS valves,
780 Holley and GTS exhaust system.
When driving the cart was pulling well, but definitely was not feeling as
400-500HP car; this is what I was sort of expecting after talking to person
who rebuild the engine as well as previous owner...it did not really feel as
300HP car...
I had a chance to put it on the dyno at the friend's garage and got the
following graph (please see the attached image); this are graphs for
adjusted power on the flywheel after recalculating looses between engine and
wheels.
What was really interesting is that he had a chance to test 2 other panteras
recently; one was a client that had rebuilt engine using some "special
parts", bt I am not sure of the actual spec while the other one was black
GR4 replica that is currently listed for sale in Germany and was built by
Braun Motorsport:

[2]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
enzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&
__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCEND
ING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&m
akeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=f
alse&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT

So, finally, my engine did not even reach 250HP, another rebuild pantera
motor did just over 300HP while Braun pantera did very nice 389HP; there is
also Ford GT40 with racing motor in there; it did 410hp but at much higher
RPM.
The most impressive about the Braun car is how smooth the power curve is.

So, now I am wondering where to go from here; could it be that it is as
simple as wrong cam choice?
If going to do a rebuild is there a good configuration someone could suggest
that would use CHI3V heads and intake, as I already got those?

As well, I had something strange happen twice with the gearbox; it got out
of the 3rd gear by itself; would someone know if this could be due to any
wrong linkage adjustment?

Thanks, Robert

References

   1. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   2. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

-------------- next part --------------
   I certainly hope so! Internal repairs to the ZF will be heart-stopping
   expensive! If you have the Pantera Owners Manual that should have come
   with the car, there is a procedure inside on adjusting the gearshift
   stick inside the car so all gears are fully selected. If not, it's
   available from all the Pantera vendors, and probably from Roland
   Jaeckel in Germany. Roland has LOTS of parts and experience with all
   DeTomasos and will certainly be able to help.Try reashing him at
   <detomaso at gmx.com>.

As well, I had something strange happen twice with the gearbox; it got out
of the 3rd gear by itself; would someone know if this could be due to any
wrong linkage adjustment?

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
   To: npdrs <npdrs at maui.net>; Brent Stewart <bjbstewart at yahoo.com>;
   DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at poca.com>
   Sent: Tue, Jul 1, 2014 10:12 am
   Subject: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth
   Any idea what your cam specs are?  My stock late 72 351C with an
   Edelbrock F351 intake, Mallory Unilite electronic ignition, and Hall
   Big Bore headers with 90,000 original miles made 250 HP at the rear
   wheels.  Check your tune. And do you have a new harmonic balancer on
   that engine?  An old damper/balancer may have slipped, which means your
   timing may be WAY off. Sounds like something is definitely amiss.
On Tuesday, July 1, 2014 8:06
 AM, Robert Stroj <[1]npdrs at maui.net> wrote:

So, finally, my '71 Pantera got through all the import procedures and is now
street legal in Europe/Germany!
Car is in very good shape, zero rust anywhere, suspension feels very good to
drive (height adjustable koni set), brakes work well (wilwood conversion),
but there is something not right with the motor.
Engine is a older 351C rebuild using original crankshaft and pistons. Some
years later it was fitted with CHI 3V heads and intake system, SS valves,
780 Holley and GTS exhaust system.
When driving the cart was pulling well, but definitely was not feeling as
400-500HP car; this is what I was sort of expecting after talking to person
who rebuild the engine as well as previous owner...it did not really feel as
300HP car...
I had a chance to put it on the dyno at the friend's garage and got the
following graph (please see the attached image); this are graphs for
adjusted power on the flywheel after recalculating looses between engine and
wheels.
What was really interesting is that he had a chance to test 2 other panteras
recently; one was a client that had rebuilt engine using some "special
parts", bt I am not sure of the actual spec while the other one was black
GR4 replica that is currently listed for sale in Germany and was built by
Braun Motorsport:

[2][1]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-stra
ss
enzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&
__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCEND
ING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&m
akeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=f
alse&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT

So, finally, my engine did not even reach 250HP, another rebuild pantera
motor did just over 300HP while Braun pantera did very nice 389HP; there is
also Ford GT40 with racing motor in there; it did 410hp but at much higher
RPM.
The most impressive about the Braun car is how smooth the power curve is.

So, now I am wondering where to go from here; could it be that it is as
simple as wrong cam choice?
If going to do a rebuild is there a good configuration someone could suggest
that would use CHI3V heads and intake, as I already got those?

As well, I had something strange happen twice with the gearbox; it got out
of the 3rd gear by itself; would someone know if this could be due to any
wrong linkage adjustment?

Thanks, Robert

References

   1. [2]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   2. [3]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-s
trass

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
[4]DeTomaso at poca.com
[5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

References

   1. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
   2. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   3. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
   4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com