[DeTomaso] Stack injection units
shawkins777 at comcast.net
shawkins777 at comcast.net
Tue Jul 1 12:25:54 EDT 2014
Boyd,
It's going to be expensive no matter which way you go. I don't understand why you would need to use different heads if you go with a stroker.
Like Will said, I have the Accel electronics and I'm very pleased with them. Changing engines is no problem, you can even go forced induction.
I got most of my parts thru Dennis Quella. He has an expert on Accel systems to help you get up and running.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyd Casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com>
To: "Kirby Schrader" <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
Cc: "Will Kooiman" <will.kooiman at gmail.com>, "Steve Hawkins" <shawkins777 at comcast.net>, "Panteras" <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 10:51:39 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Stack injection units
Thanks to all who replied. I am having a new engine built. Right now it looks like I am going for a stock displacement with a forged internals, around 10.5:1 compression ration a custom cam grind (worked out by Dan Jones ) and C302 B heads and 180 degree headers. If i decide to go with a stroker I would have to choose different heads. I like the the fuel rails that run" inside" between the stacks , but that is not the most important issue to me (looks). When I asked for a consensus for "best" I should have defined what I meant by "best". My best is reliable, ease of tune, best horsepower ease of upgrading to higher capacity injectors in the event of a cam change or other change that would require higher lb injectors. Personally I like the set ups that use modified Weber's vs Plastic throttle bodies, but I don't know much about them except they are expensive and are supposed to improve fuel economy and will stay in tune with atmospheric pressure changes. Ideally I would like a system that gives performance comparable to Weber's but without the tuning difficulties there are infamous for.
I would also like a setup that isn't more expensive then it needs to be.
Thank you.
Boyd
On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 8:23 AM, Kirby Schrader < kirby.schrader at gmail.com > wrote:
Yep. TWM was bought out by Borla some time ago. Three years? Maybe more.
Gary is still there though and very helpful.
I like the TWM throttle bodies. I have them on my Pantera and my GT40.
The Pantera has older style throttle bodies which were supplied in the mid-90's by Quella with an old F9 Haltech EFI system.
http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/tws/tws2/kirbyefi.jpg
The fuel rails are on the outside, as you can see.
I honestly don't know if Quella still does the EFI systems. Last time I talked to him he sorta' indicated he no longer does.
You'd have to check.
When the ancient F9 in the Pantera let all the smoke out, I replaced it with an Electromotive TEC GT.
The GT40 has an Electromotive TEC3r.
http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/GT40/files/p5260043.jpg.jpg
The fuel rails are on the inside with this setup and it looks 'cleaner', I think.
I like both TEC units. They work.
The TEC3r is more expensive, but has more control and inputs/outputs and can do fully sequential injection on a V8.
The TEC GT can only do what I call 'batch fire' on a V8.
That old saying... you get what you pay for.
Lots of people like the FAST system. I have no experience with it.
Steve Hawkins uses the Accel system and seems to like it.
FWIW,
Kirby
On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 6:58 AM, Will Kooiman < will.kooiman at gmail.com > wrote:
<blockquote>
The throttle bodies I like the most are made by
http://www.borlainduction.com . They are obviously throttle bodies, but
they look like they belong in the 60's/70's.
This used to be twminduction.com . That¹s news to me though. I went to
their old site, http://www.twminduction.com , and it was redirected to the
borla induction website.
I have seen some based on real Weber bodies with small injectors hidden
inside. It's an interesting idea, but I'd probably stick with the TWM
bodies.
Superior depends on what is important to you. In my opinion, the biggest
considerations are cost, looks, and the electronics. Some may outperform
others, but I doubt that it comes without setup headaches.
And finally, unless you plan on designing a lot of it yourself, I'd stick
with a complete system. I normally recommend Dennis Q., but don't forget
that Jim Inglese is still in business. He knows Webers like nobody else,
and now he's doing EFI too.
--
Will
On 7/1/14 12:56 AM, " shawkins777 at comcast.net " < shawkins777 at comcast.net >
wrote:
>
> Are you looking for an EFI setup? If you are I would recommend The
> ACCEl electronics. I went thru Dennes Quella for the manifold and
> throttle bodies.
>
>
> Steve
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: "Boyd Casey" < boyd411 at gmail.com >
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 11:40:27 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Stack injection units
> Is there a consensus as far as which stack injection unit is :
> 1.the best?
> 2. Best deal ?
> 3. are the units that use actual webers and weber manifolds considered
> Superior?
> 4. one to avoid?
> Any other considerations one should be aware of?
> Thanks.
> Boyd
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
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>_______________________________________________
>
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>
>DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
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_______________________________________________
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DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
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</blockquote>
-------------- next part --------------
Boyd,
It's going to be expensive no matter which way you go. I don't
understand why you would need to use different heads if you go with a
stroker.
Like Will said, I have the Accel electronics and I'm very pleased with
them. Changing engines is no problem, you can even go forced
induction.
I got most of my parts thru Dennis Quella. He has an expert on Accel
systems to help you get up and running.
Steve
__________________________________________________________________
From: "Boyd Casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com>
To: "Kirby Schrader" <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
Cc: "Will Kooiman" <will.kooiman at gmail.com>, "Steve Hawkins"
<shawkins777 at comcast.net>, "Panteras" <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 10:51:39 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Stack injection units
Thanks to all who replied. I am having a new engine built. Right now it
looks like I am going for a stock displacement with a forged internals,
around 10.5:1 compression ration a custom cam grind (worked out by Dan
Jones ) and C302 B heads and 180 degree headers. If i decide to go with
a stroker I would have to choose different heads. I like the the fuel
rails that run" inside" between the stacks , but that is not the most
important issue to me (looks). When I asked for a consensus for "best"
I should have defined what I meant by "best". My best is reliable,
ease of tune, best horsepower ease of upgrading to higher capacity
injectors in the event of a cam change or other change that would
require higher lb injectors. Personally I like the set ups that use
modified Weber's vs Plastic throttle bodies, but I don't know much
about them except they are expensive and are supposed to improve fuel
economy and will stay in tune with atmospheric pressure changes.
Ideally I would like a system that gives performance comparable to
Weber's but without the tuning difficulties there are infamous for.
I would also like a setup that isn't more expensive then it needs to
be.
Thank you.
Boyd
On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 8:23 AM, Kirby Schrader
<[1]kirby.schrader at gmail.com> wrote:
Yep. TWM was bought out by Borla some time ago. Three years? Maybe
more.
Gary is still there though and very helpful.
I like the TWM throttle bodies. I have them on my Pantera and my GT40.
The Pantera has older style throttle bodies which were supplied in the
mid-90's by Quella with an old F9 Haltech EFI system.
[2]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/tws/tws2/kirbyefi.jpg
The fuel rails are on the outside, as you can see.
I honestly don't know if Quella still does the EFI systems. Last time I
talked to him he sorta' indicated he no longer does.
You'd have to check.
When the ancient F9 in the Pantera let all the smoke out, I replaced it
with an Electromotive TEC GT.
The GT40 has an Electromotive TEC3r.
[3]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/GT40/files/p5260043.j
pg.jpg
The fuel rails are on the inside with this setup and it looks
'cleaner', I think.
I like both TEC units. They work.
The TEC3r is more expensive, but has more control and inputs/outputs
and can do fully sequential injection on a V8.
The TEC GT can only do what I call 'batch fire' on a V8.
That old saying... you get what you pay for.
Lots of people like the FAST system. I have no experience with it.
Steve Hawkins uses the Accel system and seems to like it.
FWIW,
Kirby
On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 6:58 AM, Will Kooiman
<[4]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
The throttle bodies I like the most are made by
[5]http://www.borlainduction.com. They are obviously throttle
bodies, but
they look like they belong in the 60's/70's.
This used to be [6]twminduction.com. ThatA^1s news to me though. I
went to
their old site, [7]http://www.twminduction.com, and it was
redirected to the
borla induction website.
I have seen some based on real Weber bodies with small injectors
hidden
inside. It's an interesting idea, but I'd probably stick with the
TWM
bodies.
Superior depends on what is important to you. In my opinion, the
biggest
considerations are cost, looks, and the electronics. Some may
outperform
others, but I doubt that it comes without setup headaches.
And finally, unless you plan on designing a lot of it yourself, I'd
stick
with a complete system. I normally recommend Dennis Q., but don't
forget
that Jim Inglese is still in business. He knows Webers like nobody
else,
and now he's doing EFI too.
--
Will
On 7/1/14 12:56 AM, "[8]shawkins777 at comcast.net"
<[9]shawkins777 at comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> Are you looking for an EFI setup? If you are I would recommend The
> ACCEl electronics. I went thru Dennes Quella for the manifold and
> throttle bodies.
>
>
> Steve
>
__________________________________________________________________
>
> From: "Boyd Casey" <[10]boyd411 at gmail.com>
> To: [11]detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 11:40:27 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Stack injection units
> Is there a consensus as far as which stack injection unit is :
> 1.the best?
> 2. Best deal ?
> 3. are the units that use actual webers and weber manifolds
considered
> Superior?
> 4. one to avoid?
> Any other considerations one should be aware of?
> Thanks.
> Boyd
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [12]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>DeTomaso mailing list
>[14]DeTomaso at poca.com
>[15]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[16]DeTomaso at poca.com
[17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com
2. http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/tws/tws2/kirbyefi.jpg
3. http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/GT40/files/p5260043.jpg.jpg
4. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
5. http://www.borlainduction.com/
6. http://twminduction.com/
7. http://www.twminduction.com/
8. mailto:shawkins777 at comcast.net
9. mailto:shawkins777 at comcast.net
10. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
15. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
16. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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