[DeTomaso] Sacrificial Zinc anode

Stephen Nelson steve at snclocks.com
Tue Jan 28 22:37:56 EST 2014


Zinc will dissolve before the aluminum does - hence the term "Sacrificial
anode".  Of course, if the zinc all dissolves, well, the aluminum is next.

 

As mentioned in a previous e-mail, an applied potential will significantly
speed up the dissolution - hence the need to make sure everything electrical
is properly grounded.

 

Stephen Nelson

 

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From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Mike Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:56 PM
To: jgkrenton at comcast.net; 'Asa Jay Laughton'
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sacrificial Zinc anode

 

OK, question from the unwashed . . . 

 

What does the zinc anode do in a cooling system?

Mike Thomas

VP, POCA

VP, Panteras Northwest

Yellow '74 #6328

 

 

 

From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
jgkrenton at comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:22 PM
To: Asa Jay Laughton
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sacrificial Zinc anode

 

All:

 

These are known as "Pencil Anodes" and are widely available in the marine
industry.  Not a bad idea for any cooling system..

 

http://www.marinepartssource.com/products.asp?cat=7
<http://www.marinepartssource.com/products.asp?cat=7&CatName=Anodes&Sub1=3&S
ub2=0&Sub3=0&SubCategory=Pencil%20Anodes>
&CatName=Anodes&Sub1=3&Sub2=0&Sub3=0&SubCategory=Pencil%20Anodes

 

FYI

 

Jeff/2467

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From: "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>
To: detomaso at poca.com
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 2:01:53 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Sacrificial Zinc anode

I'd recommend the zinc anode.  I first installed one in the water pump but
later moved it to the upper hole in the Fluidyne radiator.  It doubles as an
air bleed by opening it slightly, and doesn't cause a mess when I go to
drain the radiator through the regular drain cock:

Flex-a-lite 32060 - Flex-a-lite Zinc Anode
 Drain Plug Replacement Kit

The photo is from Jegs because Summit doesn't have a photo. (and neither
does the Fluidyne site).

Asa  jay

Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************     
http://www.racingagainstautism.com <http://www.racingagainstautism.com/> 
http://www.teampanteraracing.com <http://www.teampanteraracing.com/> 
http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism


On 1/26/2014 1:24 PM, Stephen Nelson wrote: 

I look forward to hearing what a couple of the more knowledgeable guys will
say on this, but heck, being a chemical engineer who has worked on
industrial air coolers - I am having a hard time understanding how a
radiator can flow air only one way.  Not wanting to suggest a mechanic is
wrong, but it is a rather curious suggestion. 

 

Running fans backwards may sound like an ok thing to do, but the blades just
don't work that way.  Whether that would cause a 50% reduction in flow -
that at least is debatable - but they didn't say 50%, they said as much as -
which I can't disagree with.

 

Chock up 5% for blockage, and another 5% for what ever was coating the
inside of the tubes, and, well another 5% for expanded section of the core -
even if the reversed fans were only 20% reduced, total here comes to 35%
reduction.  Which really can't help anything.

 

I did note their recommendation for a zinc anode in the drain plug.  Now
this sounds like a hell of a good idea - I added it to my list of things to
do for 5332.  

 

Stephen Nelson

 

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Click here to join one of our mailing lists Contact Lists
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Click here for my new blog <http://www.perfectoldman.com/>  on finding
happiness in retirement 

 


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From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Scott Bell
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:30 PM
To: LEVITT1946 at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FLUIDYNE RADIATOR STORY

 

I respectfully disagree completely with your conclusions.

 

I actually see nothing wrong with their conclusion other than the cylinder
head gasket assumption.

 

It looks like the real problem was someone put the wrong fans on the
radiator.

 

I see no evidence that the radiator was at fault. If the radiator was ruined
by the pressure washer then we could have just replaced the fans to prove
one way or another what was at fault. But because the radiator was ruined,
there was no choice but to replace it.

 

If you really want to prove something, put the original fans back on it and
watch the problem come back. Since your car is running fine now, Don't DO
THAT. My point is, there is no proof yet that the radiator was at fault.

 

Just chock it up to lesion learned. Fluidyne radiators have been working
fine for hundreds of Pantera Owners and I really DON'T see know way a
radiator could only flow air only one way, BUT, a fan can do that. In
addition, if the radiator truly only flowed air one way, it would overheat
at speed as well as in traffic.

 

Just my opinion, but I think blaming Fluidyne is a bit premature here.

 

Scott

 

From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
LEVITT1946 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:28 AM
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] FLUIDYNE RADIATOR STORY

 

  

Hello All,

 

Many of you go thru high heat issues with the Pantera. 

 

When I purchased my car in 2008 the previous owner told me if I was in
traffic to just pull over . I was determined to cure this car from high heat
exposure. 

 

The first things I attached on the car was the following:

 

Replaced Water Pump with Hi Flow Water Pump 

Replaced Thermostat ( many times)

Replaced the old brass radiator with an new Aluminum  radiator from Summit.

Replaced Meriah fans with new sucker fans

Replaced antifreeze and purged air from system  (many times)

Did complete Tune Up. ( many times)

 

Now it was time for the big test. I got on the highway and the car was
holding temp at a steady 180. The minute I got off the highway the temp
started rising to the point of boil over. I could hear my pressure bottle
perculating.

 

This went on for years. I drove the car across the USA in the Gumball
Rally.As long as the car was moving I knew we would be ok and we made it
from Santa Monica California to Miami Beach safely.

 

The car was still running hot so I tracked down an NOS Pressure tank and
overflow bottle from a place in Modena Italy. I thought maybe there was
something wrong with my pressure and overflow bottles.

 

My local mechanic replaced the pressure and overflow bottles and the car
started to overheat immediately. The only part to look at now was the
FLUIDYNE Radiator that I had replaced 4 years ago when I purchased the car.

 

We let the car cool a little and then restarted the car. My mechanic said he
was going to run water over the front of the radiator when I started the
car. I was in the car while it was running to see if the water temp would
lower as he ran the hose on the front of the FLUIDYNE radiator. The temp was
lowering! . Then he said shut the car. My Mechanic said that since I had
sucker fans my car should have been sprayed with water when he ran the water
on the front of the radiator. Instead the car was DRY . This meant that the
radiator was now allowing the water to flow through and thus no air could
flow through either.

 

Next step was to reverse the fans to blow out the front of the car and leave
it idling in place . The car ran at a steady 180 for 30 minutes and the temp
did not rise. This told us that the radiator was fault and only flowed ONE
WAY .

 

I could not believe that the radiator could be faulty. I drove home and
cleaned the radiator with a pressure washer and ruined every fin on the
radiator. 

 

Then I contacted the owner of Fluidyne. I explained what we had done and in
summary we felt we had a one way radiator that could only flow air one way .
I also admitted that I had pressure washed the radiator and ruined the
outside fins. Hard to believe but TRUE.

He asked me to send the radiator to him and if they faund any defect in
workmanship he would replace the radiator at no charge.   He came up with
every excuse possible. He cut the radiator in half to look at the internals
of the radiator. 

 

Here is FLUIDYNES actual response:

Good Morning Robert,

 

Further to our investigation:

*         Your radiator was inspected upon receipt and found to be 'bloated'
. swollen in the middle of the core, consistent with symptoms of
over-pressurization.

*         The fans were tested while installed on the core and operation was
verified.  They seemed to pull a reasonable amount of air. 

*         The fans were then removed and inspected.  The fans are "pusher"
fans. not "puller" fans as you were told.  [See pic 3 to see arrow markings]

o   They most likely were wired to work as  "pullers" but the performance
would be significantly hampered considering the pitch of the blade is
backwards

*         The Inlet/Outlet water tank was removed to inspect the core.
Debris was found near the top & bottom [see pic 1 and 2] which had plugged
several tubes.

o   This is not a significant blockage but we noted that foreign debris was
indeed inside the core. 

*         The Return water tank was then removed [pic 4] which showed a
significant amount of engine oil has passed thru the core.  

o   We suspect this oil was introduced to the radiator by failure of a
cylinder head gasket.

o   I appears the oil remained in the core for some time as it would not
wipe off.  

o   We also assume this failure created the high pressure event that caused
the core to be over-pressurized.

*         The Core shows no internal structural damage and the outside
structure [air fin] was heavily damaged as you know and has rendered the
core useless.

 

Conclusion:

The outside air fin has sustained significant damage and 90% of the louvers
have been bent shut in both directions.  The radiator core appears to be
sound.  We noted no failures of our Materials or Workmanship nor evidence of
Electrolysis erosion.  The over-pressurization event, while it likely
created the 'bloated' shape of the unit, does not appear to have affected
the core's performance.  

 

The only anomaly we discovered was the fact that as installed, the pusher
fans were likely wired to run backwards as puller fans.  This creates
significant turbulence in and around the fan housing and would reduce
performance by as much as 50%

 

Next Steps:

As I mentioned, we have initiated production of a replacement radiator [with
the new 5-row Pantera core] for you.  Per your instructions, we will install
your fan temp sensors on the new core.  You have also asked us to install
your fans but in light of the problems noted here, I believe you may want to
consider replacing these units.  We can install new Spal units [the only
brand I handle] if you prefer and I also suggest we install a Zinc Anode in
the drain bung to protect against Electrolysis in the future.

All of FLUIDYNES excuses and blaming the engine had cylinder head gasket
leaks was a bunch of BS. I ended up paying for the new radiator and fans
because I had no choice . Fluidyne should have stood behind their product
but they DID NOT.

 

We installed the new radiator on the car as well as two lights on the dash
that would tell me when each fan was on and off. This way I knew the fans
were working.

 

We let the car run for  a solid hour at the shop and the car never rose over
180 degrees. The high heat problem that existed for years was finally gone.
My mechanic said that once I hit the highway the fans would actually shut
off. 

 

On the way home from the shop both fans were RUNNING as they should. I
entered the highway and in five minutes one fan shut down and then the
other. I now had total confidence in the car. 

 

I guess the cylinder head gasket leaks that Fluidyne said my engine had,
repaired itself .  BS

 

Just thought you guys should know.

 

Best ,

 

Bob Levitt

 

  

 
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