[DeTomaso] FLUIDYNE RADIATOR STORY

[Scott Bell]

I respectfully disagree completely with your conclusions…
 
I actually see nothing wrong with their conclusion other than the cylinder head gasket assumption.
 
It looks like the real problem was someone put the wrong fans on the radiator.
 
I see no evidence that the radiator was at fault. If the radiator was ruined by the pressure washer then we could have just replaced the fans to prove one way or another what was at fault. But because the radiator was ruined, there was no choice but to replace it.
 
If you really want to prove something, put the original fans back on it and watch the problem come back… Since your car is running fine now, Don’t DO THAT. My point is, there is no proof yet that the radiator was at fault.
 
Just chock it up to lesion learned. Fluidyne radiators have been working fine for hundreds of Pantera Owners and I really DON’T see know way a radiator could only flow air only one way, BUT, a fan can do that. In addition, if the radiator truly only flowed air one way, it would overheat at speed as well as in traffic.
 
Just my opinion, but I think blaming Fluidyne is a bit premature here.
 
Scott
 
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of LEVITT1946 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:28 AM
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] FLUIDYNE RADIATOR STORY
 
  
Hello All,
 
Many of you go thru high heat issues with the Pantera. 
 
When I purchased my car in 2008 the previous owner told me if I was in traffic to just pull over . I was determined to cure this car from high heat exposure. 
 
The first things I attached on the car was the following:
 
Replaced Water Pump with Hi Flow Water Pump 
Replaced Thermostat ( many times)
Replaced the old brass radiator with an new Aluminum  radiator from Summit.
Replaced Meriah fans with new sucker fans
Replaced antifreeze and purged air from system  (many times)
Did complete Tune Up. ( many times)
 
Now it was time for the big test. I got on the highway and the car was holding temp at a steady 180. The minute I got off the highway the temp started rising to the point of boil over. I could hear my pressure bottle perculating.
 
This went on for years. I drove the car across the USA in the Gumball Rally.As long as the car was moving I knew we would be ok and we made it from Santa Monica California to Miami Beach safely.
 
The car was still running hot so I tracked down an NOS Pressure tank and overflow bottle from a place in Modena Italy. I thought maybe there was something wrong with my pressure and overflow bottles.
 
My local mechanic replaced the pressure and overflow bottles and the car started to overheat immediately. The only part to look at now was the FLUIDYNE Radiator that I had replaced 4 years ago when I purchased the car.
 
We let the car cool a little and then restarted the car. My mechanic said he was going to run water over the front of the radiator when I started the car. I was in the car while it was running to see if the water temp would lower as he ran the hose on the front of the FLUIDYNE radiator. The temp was lowering! . Then he said shut the car. My Mechanic said that since I had sucker fans my car should have been sprayed with water when he ran the water on the front of the radiator. Instead the car was DRY . This meant that the radiator was now allowing the water to flow through and thus no air could flow through either.
 
Next step was to reverse the fans to blow out the front of the car and leave it idling in place . The car ran at a steady 180 for 30 minutes and the temp did not rise. This told us that the radiator was fault and only flowed ONE WAY .
 
I could not believe that the radiator could be faulty. I drove home and cleaned the radiator with a pressure washer and ruined every fin on the radiator. 
 
Then I contacted the owner of Fluidyne. I explained what we had done and in summary we felt we had a one way radiator that could only flow air one way . I also admitted that I had pressure washed the radiator and ruined the outside fins. Hard to believe but TRUE.
He asked me to send the radiator to him and if they faund any defect in workmanship he would replace the radiator at no charge.   He came up with every excuse possible. He cut the radiator in half to look at the internals of the radiator. 
 
Here is FLUIDYNES actual response:
Good Morning Robert,
 
Further to our investigation:
·         Your radiator was inspected upon receipt and found to be ‘bloated’ … swollen in the middle of the core, consistent with symptoms of over-pressurization.
·         The fans were tested while installed on the core and operation was verified.  They seemed to pull a reasonable amount of air. 
·         The fans were then removed and inspected.  The fans are “pusher” fans… not “puller” fans as you were told.  [See pic 3 to see arrow markings]
o   They most likely were wired to work as  “pullers” but the performance would be significantly hampered considering the pitch of the blade is backwards
·         The Inlet/Outlet water tank was removed to inspect the core.  Debris was found near the top & bottom [see pic 1 and 2] which had plugged several tubes.
o   This is not a significant blockage but we noted that foreign debris was indeed inside the core. 
·         The Return water tank was then removed [pic 4] which showed a significant amount of engine oil has passed thru the core.  
o   We suspect this oil was introduced to the radiator by failure of a cylinder head gasket.
o   I appears the oil remained in the core for some time as it would not wipe off.  
o   We also assume this failure created the high pressure event that caused the core to be over-pressurized.
·         The Core shows no internal structural damage and the outside structure [air fin] was heavily damaged as you know and has rendered the core useless.
 
Conclusion:
The outside air fin has sustained significant damage and 90% of the louvers have been bent shut in both directions.  The radiator core appears to be sound.  We noted no failures of our Materials or Workmanship nor evidence of Electrolysis erosion.  The over-pressurization event, while it likely created the ‘bloated’ shape of the unit, does not appear to have affected the core’s performance.  
 
The only anomaly we discovered was the fact that as installed, the pusher fans were likely wired to run backwards as puller fans.  This creates significant turbulence in and around the fan housing and would reduce performance by as much as 50%
 
Next Steps:
As I mentioned, we have initiated production of a replacement radiator [with the new 5-row Pantera core] for you.  Per your instructions, we will install your fan temp sensors on the new core.  You have also asked us to install your fans but in light of the problems noted here, I believe you may want to consider replacing these units.  We can install new Spal units [the only brand I handle] if you prefer and I also suggest we install a Zinc Anode in the drain bung to protect against Electrolysis in the future.
All of FLUIDYNES excuses and blaming the engine had cylinder head gasket leaks was a bunch of BS. I ended up paying for the new radiator and fans because I had no choice . Fluidyne should have stood behind their product but they DID NOT.
 
We installed the new radiator on the car as well as two lights on the dash that would tell me when each fan was on and off. This way I knew the fans were working.
 
We let the car run for  a solid hour at the shop and the car never rose over 180 degrees. The high heat problem that existed for years was finally gone. My mechanic said that once I hit the highway the fans would actually shut off. 
 
On the way home from the shop both fans were RUNNING as they should. I entered the highway and in five minutes one fan shut down and then the other. I now had total confidence in the car. 
 
I guess the cylinder head gasket leaks that Fluidyne said my engine had, repaired itself .  BS
 
Just thought you guys should know.
 
Best ,
 
Bob Levitt
 
  
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