[DeTomaso] Different Transaxle

dave londry davel at emspace.com
Wed Jan 15 14:10:36 EST 2014


I saw this on the Superlight website.

Recently, Superlite has been able to provide new transaxles from 
Graziano, a well-known supplier to several supercar makers. These 
transaxles are brand new, capable of supporting 1000 HP in road 
applications, are designed for mid-engined applications (so they don’t 
need to be modified to run inverted as all the Porsche 911-based units 
do) and are even lighter than the previous gold standard transaxle (the 
Ricardo). Best of all, they are priced– to SLC buyers at the time of kit 
order– at about the same cost as a rebuilt Porsche transaxle. With 
all-new technology, designed for mid-engined applications, OEM-levels of 
refinement and durability, these are a great solution to the transaxle 
dilemma.

dave

On 14/01/2014 10:16 PM, Julian Kift wrote:
> Historically 'kit cars' have been low end home builds that are built 
> on budget and not too many are mid engine.
>
> That has changed somewhat in recent years with true performance 
> component vehicles (purpose made as opposed to requiring donor parts) 
> like the Ultima, RCR SLC (& now LMP) and GTM for instance. These cars 
> get built to varying degrees of quality and power, with cost relative 
> to that. For many a stock Chevrolet lump mated to an Audi or Porsche 
> transaxle from a scrap vehicle are all that's needed to have fun in a 
> 2200 to 2500lb car with 350-400HP.
>
> At one point you couldn't get hold of a ZF for love nor money and an 
> 18 month wait that is when the ZFQ came about to fil the void. A few 
> years on the economy is different and I think many GT40 builders opt 
> for the ZF.
>
> Personally I think one of the most interesting recent developments is 
> Fran Hall's (RCR) LMP replica which uses an LS7 mated to a C6 Corvette 
> transaxle by removing the drive shaft between the engine and transaxle 
> and custom mating the two together.
>
> Julian
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 18:22:18 -0700
> From: coreyjprice at gmail.com
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Different Transaxle
>
> Just like I said- Quaife doesn't plan on producing an "inverted" 
> version any time soon and they told me that when I was looking for a 
> ZF or substitute. I also understand production of the transaxle was 
> suspended due to price and new supply of RBT units for the GT40 
> replica crowd.
>
> Anyone but me notice that the ZF isn't as popular beyond the GT40, 
> Pantera, and other cars where the ZF was OEM equipment, such as the 
> kit car world? I like the ZF, don't get me wrong.
>
> Corey
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com 
> <mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com>> wrote:
>
>     All,
>
>     The Quaife gearbox, according to Lloyd Butfoy, was rather poorly
>     finished in m ah ways. It has proven to have reliability issues
>     when pushed hard (although some have withstood major punishment
>     without failing yet). Cost exceeds that of a ZF, and they were not
>     made in Pantera configuration.
>
>     A non-player, in other words....
>
>     Mike
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>     On Jan 14, 2014, at 15:25, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com
>     <mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Tomas,
>
>         Yes, that is it. Developed by Chris Melia in conjunction with
>         Quaife, it uses a dimensionally equivalent casing as the ZF
>         with Porsche gears. However despite the supposed availability
>         of a De Tomaso Pantera version I am not aware that Quaife has
>         ever actually made one.
>
>         Julian
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         From: guson at home.se <mailto:guson at home.se>
>         To: julian_kift at hotmail.com <mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com>
>         CC: jderyke at aol.com <mailto:jderyke at aol.com>;
>         coreyjprice at gmail.com <mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com>;
>         detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
>         Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Different Transaxle
>         Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 14:45:57 -0800
>
>         Julian,
>
>         Is the ZFQ you mention this transmission?
>         http://quaife.co.uk/shop/products/qbe62g
>
>         Tomas
>
>
>         <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>         		*From: Julian Kift [julian_kift at hotmail.com
>         <mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com>]*
>         Sent: 14/1/2014 9:28:16 PM
>         To: jderyke at aol.com
>         <mailto:jderyke at aol.com>;coreyjprice at gmail.com
>         <mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com>;detomaso at poca.com
>         <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
>         Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Different Transaxle
>
>         I personally don't believe the RBT 6 sped offers any great
>         advantage for the cost, especially as a tall 5th upgrade to
>         your existing ZF achieves the same thing, as 6th in the 6
>         speed is that same gearing, just one more shift to get there.
>         I upgraded to a tall 5th and the rpm drop from 4th to 5th is
>         not excessive, considering 5th is an overdrive for cruising.
>         I'd invest my money in a 3.77 ring & pinion long before I
>         considered a 6 speed.
>
>         As alternatives to the ZF you can turn to the mid engine kit
>         car guys for inspiration. Many use an inverted Porsche
>         transaxle with the G50 considered one of the best, but to
>         build it to withstand 600HP takes money (the G50 I have in the
>         Ultima came in at close to $15K all in). The ZFQ was seen as a
>         cheaper alternative to the ZF (and came about when there was a
>         boom in the GT40 kit car market and a shortage of ZF's). There
>         are reports of ZFQ units having suffered catastrophic failure
>         when used in anger.
>
>         The Ricardo is a good transaxle, but doesn't fit in a Pantera
>         without major modifications and is no longer supported so
>         spares are becoming rare. Ricardo's were selling for $6500 at
>         one point, you'd be challenged to find anything under $10K
>         currently I think.
>
>         Most of the other transaxles available are pure race car
>         stuff, very expensive and short design life spans.
>
>         In short the ZF really takes some beating, in both senses.
>
>         Julian
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         To: coreyjprice at gmail.com <mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com>;
>         detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
>         From: jderyke at aol.com <mailto:jderyke at aol.com>
>         Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 14:42:28 -0500
>         Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Different Transaxle
>
>         Cory, the one and only reason I can see to change tranaxles is
>         for an overdrive 6th gear for fuel mileage savings on long
>         trips. If I could afford it, I'd use RBT's 6-speed upgrade for
>         the ZF which I know fits everything. The powerful 351-C
>         doesn't need a close ratio 6, 7 or 8 speed gear cluster, and
>         zero other transaxles fit a Pantera without major work....
>         then you have the shifter & halfshaft adaptions and maybe
>         useless electronic do-dads on 'modern' units to contend with.
>
>
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com
>         <mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com>>
>         To: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>
>         Sent: Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:48 am
>         Subject: [DeTomaso] Different Transaxle
>
>         If there was a modern, smooth, non-ZF transaxle available for the Pantera that
>         fit without major rework would anyone consider switching?  What would be the
>         biggest reason, if there are reasons?  Are you satisfied largely with the ZF
>         transaxle in your car(s)?
>
>         Corey
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