[DeTomaso] Different Transaxle

Wed Jan 15 01:16:14 EST 2014

Historically 'kit cars' have been low end home builds that are built on budget and not too many are mid engine.
That has changed somewhat in recent years with true performance component vehicles (purpose made as opposed to requiring donor parts) like the Ultima, RCR SLC (& now LMP) and GTM for instance. These cars get built to varying degrees of quality and power, with cost relative to that. For many a stock Chevrolet lump mated to an Audi or Porsche transaxle from a scrap vehicle are all that's needed to have fun in a 2200 to 2500lb car with 350-400HP. 
At one point you couldn't get hold of a ZF for love nor money and an 18 month wait that is when the ZFQ came about to fil the void. A few years on the economy is different and I think many GT40 builders opt for the ZF.
Personally I think one of the most interesting recent developments is Fran Hall's (RCR) LMP replica which uses an LS7 mated to a C6 Corvette transaxle by removing the drive shaft between the engine and transaxle and custom mating the two together.
Julian

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 18:22:18 -0700
From: coreyjprice at gmail.com
To: MikeLDrew at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Different Transaxle

Just like I said- Quaife doesn't plan on producing an "inverted" version any time soon and they told me that when I was looking for a ZF or substitute.  I also understand production of the transaxle was suspended due to price and new supply of RBT units for the GT40 replica crowd.

Anyone but me notice that the ZF isn't as popular beyond the GT40, Pantera, and other cars where the ZF was OEM equipment, such as the kit car world? I like the ZF, don't get me wrong. 

Corey

On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:

All,
The Quaife gearbox, according to Lloyd Butfoy, was rather poorly finished in m ah ways. It has proven to have reliability issues when pushed hard (although some have withstood major punishment without failing yet). Cost exceeds that of a ZF, and they were not made in Pantera configuration. 

A non-player, in other words....
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 14, 2014, at 15:25, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:

Tomas,

Yes, that is it. Developed by Chris Melia in conjunction with Quaife, it uses a dimensionally equivalent casing as the ZF with Porsche gears. However despite the supposed availability of a De Tomaso Pantera version I am not aware that Quaife has ever actually made one.

Julian

From: guson at home.se
To: julian_kift at hotmail.com
CC: jderyke at aol.com; coreyjprice at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com

Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Different Transaxle
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 14:45:57 -0800

Julian,

Is the ZFQ you mention this transmission?http://quaife.co.uk/shop/products/qbe62g

Tomas

<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->

From: Julian Kift [julian_kift at hotmail.com]

Sent: 14/1/2014 9:28:16 PM

To: jderyke at aol.com;coreyjprice at gmail.com;detomaso at poca.com

Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Different Transaxle 

I personally don't believe the RBT 6 sped offers any great advantage for the cost, especially as a tall 5th upgrade to your existing ZF achieves the same thing, as 6th in the 6 speed is that same gearing, just one more shift to get there. I upgraded to a tall 5th and the rpm drop from 4th to 5th is not excessive, considering 5th is an overdrive for cruising. I'd invest my money in a 3.77 ring & pinion long before I considered a 6 speed.

As alternatives to the ZF you can turn to the mid engine kit car guys for inspiration. Many use an inverted Porsche transaxle with the G50 considered one of the best, but to build it to withstand 600HP takes money (the G50 I have in the Ultima came in at close to $15K all in). The ZFQ was seen as a cheaper alternative to the ZF (and came about when there was a boom in the GT40 kit car market and a shortage of ZF's). There are reports of ZFQ units having suffered catastrophic failure when used in anger.

The Ricardo is a good transaxle, but doesn't fit in a Pantera without major modifications and is no longer supported so spares are becoming rare. Ricardo's were selling for $6500 at one point, you'd be challenged to find anything under $10K currently I think.

Most of the other transaxles available are pure race car stuff, very expensive and short design life spans.

In short the ZF really takes some beating, in both senses.

Julian

To: coreyjprice at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com

From: jderyke at aol.com

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 14:42:28 -0500

Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Different Transaxle

Cory, the one and only reason I can see to change tranaxles is for an overdrive 6th gear for fuel mileage savings on long trips. If I could afford it, I'd use RBT's 6-speed upgrade for the ZF which I know fits everything.  The powerful 351-C doesn't need a close ratio 6, 7 or 8 speed gear cluster, and zero other transaxles fit a Pantera without major work.... then you have the shifter & halfshaft adaptions and maybe useless electronic do-dads on 'modern' units to contend with. 

-----Original Message-----

From: Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com>

To: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>

Sent: Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:48 am

Subject: [DeTomaso] Different Transaxle

If there was a modern, smooth, non-ZF transaxle available for the Pantera that 
fit without major rework would anyone consider switching?  What would be the 
biggest reason, if there are reasons?  Are you satisfied largely with the ZF 
transaxle in your car(s)?

Corey
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