[DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
Julian Kift
julian_kift at hotmail.com
Sun Feb 23 13:18:12 EST 2014
Jack,
Yes that cotter pin had play, the column is now welded = no play.
Julian
To: juliankift at hotmail.com
From: jderyke at aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 03:38:25 -0500
CC: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
Julian, as I remember your GT-5, there was a lot of play in the steering before you bought it. The collapsible steering column feature was defeated by a drilled hole through the upper column and a large cotter pin inserted to remove some of the slop. Did you remove the cotter pin? That may make things worse. Pinching the D-shaped outer parts closer together with Vise-Grips or a press, or adding better shims than stock poly strips might help.
-----Original Message-----
From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
To: thomas <thomas at hax.se>; MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Sat, Feb 22, 2014 2:47 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
By any chance does the tires have ware from before rack repair, is it
possible they are aiding the poor handling?
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
! )
__________________________________________________________________
From: thomas <thomas at hax.se>
To: "MikeLDrew at aol.com" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 3:56 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
I rebuilt the rack in #9321 (1984 GT5) using a brass bushing that Mike
supplied, and I believe it is the later rack.
Later I removed some of the thin shims to reduce steering wheel play.
I have Marino's offset poly bushings and it is still a white knuckle
ride with the 285-40/15 Yokohama AVS-1 tires.
I don't think this can be fixed with a new rack alone.
Thomas
> 22 feb 2014 kl. 08:13 skrev [1]MikeLDrew at aol.com:
>
> In a message dated 2/21/14 21 43 19, [2]julian_kift at hotmail.com
writes:
>
> As you know I have replaced just about everything on the steering
> end of my GT5 in an effort to try and make it an enjoyable drive,
> alas it is still a white knuckle ride tram lining the slightest
rut
> in the road and darting when one changes lanes over the center
> crest. The rack was rebuilt at some point by someone who was heavy
> handed with vice grips and I have never been happy with it, so my
> last ditch effort is to just change out the rack for a new one.
> Mine being an early GT5 where Alejandro was still using up
leftover
> Ford parts has the same rack as my '74, so I'd be keen to know if
> what you have in the box there fits. That said I'm intrigued that
> later GT5's had a different rack, are they dimensionally the same
or
> does the later rack alter (improve) the steering geometry?
>
>>>> The later rack appears to be dimensionally the same. The rack
> housing tube is a smaller diameter, and there are crude spacers that
> wrap around the outside of it to make up the difference between the
> small tube and the larger opening in the Pantera rack housing
clamps.
> Here is what arrived at my house for me to repair, plucked from the
> GT5:
>
[3]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-Testarossa-TRW-Steering-Rack-/121278
970
> 012
> At least, I'm 99.9% certain it's the same. The tie rods are
completely
> different from an early Pantera rack, the rack is different, the
> housing is different, although the boot on the driver's side seems
> largely the same (the passenger side is very different. You can see
> the tube is much smaller in diameter as well.
> But functionally it seems to be identical. As I said, I'm going to
> fully compare the worn-out GT5 rack, a standard Pantera rack that I
> keep on hand as a visual aid, and the new early 308 rack I just
bought,
> and we will see wot's wot.
> BTW Rick Moseley's 1980 308 uses a later-style rack I believe, with
a
> different housing with the mounting clamps cast integral with the
> housing. But internally it is the same as the Pantera rack, needs
the
> same bronze bushing for a quality repair, etc. etc. Rick is the one
> who contacted TRW (the outfit that purchased Cam Gears UK, the
original
> maker of the Pantera and Ferrari racks) and asked what to use as a
> lubricant; they told him in no uncertain terms that gear oil was no
> longer in vogue and 0-weight grease was the lube of choice. The
> GT5/Testa Rossa rack comes filled with this grease, as did the TRW
> racks that some vendors were selling a few years ago, and also the
ones
> that Roland was selling. I have no doubt the new rack we just
bought
> will have grease as well.
> (As an aside, I just replaced the worn-out rack on one of my VW
> Sciroccos today. The new rack came from the German manufacturer
filled
> with grease too).
> Rick and I worked together with the fellow you saw on the F-chat
forum,
> who has an early 308 GT4 Dino and had a blown-out rack. Some thief
had
> charged him over $1000 to 'repair' his rack; he threw a home-made
> nylong bushing inside, bludgeoned some later-style tie rods onto the
> rack, and overtightened them to the point where they were bound up
> solid. The poor guy got the rack installed in his car with some
> difficulty, but the car was virtually undriveable. He managed to
get
> it to an alignment shop and they literally couldn't turn the tie
rods
> to set the toe, so they sent him home.
> With much long-distance hand-holding, he took the rack apart, dumped
> the new parts, got three (!) Pantera rack bushings from three
different
> Pantera vendors, chose the one we told him to choose in the first
> place, and put his rack back together using his original tie rods.
The
> result was perfection and he was quite pleased, not only with the
> results, but with himself for having taken on the challenge and
> prevailing.
> He has been trying to sell one of his three rack bushings on E-bay
for
> quite some time now, with no takers; oddly, the other one sold
almost
> instantly?
> Mike
>
>
> !DSPAM:53084e8a24993343511756!
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
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>
>
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References
1. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
3. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-Testarossa-TRW-Steering-Rack-/121278970
4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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-------------- next part --------------
Jack,
Yes that cotter pin had play, the column is now welded = no play.
Julian
To: juliankift at hotmail.com
From: jderyke at aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 03:38:25 -0500
CC: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
Julian, as I remember your GT-5, there was a lot of play in the steering befor
e you bought it. The collapsible steering column feature was defeated by a drill
ed hole through the upper column and a large cotter pin inserted to remove some
of the slop. Did you remove the cotter pin? That may make things worse. Pinching
the D-shaped outer parts closer together with Vise-Grips or a press, or adding
better shims than stock poly strips might help.
-----Original Message-----
From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
To: thomas <thomas at hax.se>; MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Sat, Feb 22, 2014 2:47 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
By any chance does the tires have ware from before rack repair, is it
possible they are aiding the poor handling?
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
! )
__________________________________________________________________
From: thomas <thomas at hax.se>
To: "MikeLDrew at aol.com" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 3:56 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
I rebuilt the rack in #9321 (1984 GT5) using a brass bushing that Mike
supplied, and I believe it is the later rack.
Later I removed some of the thin shims to reduce steering wheel play.
I have Marino's offset poly bushings and it is still a white knuckle
ride with the 285-40/15 Yokohama AVS-1 tires.
I don't think this can be fixed with a new rack alone.
Thomas
> 22 feb 2014 kl. 08:13 skrev [1]MikeLDrew at aol.com:
>
> In a message dated 2/21/14 21 43 19, [2]julian_kift at hotmail.com
writes:
>
> As you know I have replaced just about everything on the steering
> end of my GT5 in an effort to try and make it an enjoyable drive,
> alas it is still a white knuckle ride tram lining the slightest
rut
> in the road and darting when one changes lanes over the center
> crest. The rack was rebuilt at some point by someone who was heavy
> handed with vice grips and I have never been happy with it, so my
> last ditch effort is to just change out the rack for a new one.
> Mine being an early GT5 where Alejandro was still using up
leftover
> Ford parts has the same rack as my '74, so I'd be keen to know if
> what you have in the box there fits. That said I'm intrigued that
> later GT5's had a different rack, are they dimensionally the same
or
> does the later rack alter (improve) the steering geometry?
>
>>>> The later rack appears to be dimensionally the same. The rack
> housing tube is a smaller diameter, and there are crude spacers that
> wrap around the outside of it to make up the difference between the
> small tube and the larger opening in the Pantera rack housing
clamps.
> Here is what arrived at my house for me to repair, plucked from the
> GT5:
>
[3][1]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-Testarossa-TRW-Steering-Rack-/121278
970
> 012
> At least, I'm 99.9% certain it's the same. The tie rods are
completely
> different from an early Pantera rack, the rack is different, the
> housing is different, although the boot on the driver's side seems
> largely the same (the passenger side is very different. You can see
> the tube is much smaller in diameter as well.
> But functionally it seems to be identical. As I said, I'm going to
> fully compare the worn-out GT5 rack, a standard Pantera rack that I
> keep on hand as a visual aid, and the new early 308 rack I just
bought,
> and we will see wot's wot.
> BTW Rick Moseley's 1980 308 uses a later-style rack I believe, with
a
> different housing with the mounting clamps cast integral with the
> housing. But internally it is the same as the Pantera rack, needs
the
> same bronze bushing for a quality repair, etc. etc. Rick is the one
> who contacted TRW (the outfit that purchased Cam Gears UK, the
original
> maker of the Pantera and Ferrari racks) and asked what to use as a
> lubricant; they told him in no uncertain terms that gear oil was no
> longer in vogue and 0-weight grease was the lube of choice. The
> GT5/Testa Rossa rack comes filled with this grease, as did the TRW
> racks that some vendors were selling a few years ago, and also the
ones
> that Roland was selling. I have no doubt the new rack we just
bought
> will have grease as well.
> (As an aside, I just replaced the worn-out rack on one of my VW
> Sciroccos today. The new rack came from the German manufacturer
filled
> with grease too).
> Rick and I worked together with the fellow you saw on the F-chat
forum,
> who has an early 308 GT4 Dino and had a blown-out rack. Some thief
had
> charged him over $1000 to 'repair' his rack; he threw a home-made
> nylong bushing inside, bludgeoned some later-style tie rods onto the
> rack, and overtightened them to the point where they were bound up
> solid. The poor guy got the rack installed in his car with some
> difficulty, but the car was virtually undriveable. He managed to
get
> it to an alignment shop and they literally couldn't turn the tie
rods
> to set the toe, so they sent him home.
> With much long-distance hand-holding, he took the rack apart, dumped
> the new parts, got three (!) Pantera rack bushings from three
different
> Pantera vendors, chose the one we told him to choose in the first
> place, and put his rack back together using his original tie rods.
The
> result was perfection and he was quite pleased, not only with the
> results, but with himself for having taken on the challenge and
> prevailing.
> He has been trying to sell one of his three rack bushings on E-bay
for
> quite some time now, with no takers; oddly, the other one sold
almost
> instantly?
> Mike
>
>
> !DSPAM:53084e8a24993343511756!
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [4]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [5][2]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> !DSPAM:53084e8a24993343511756!
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DeTomaso mailing list
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References
1. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
3. [4]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-Testarossa-TRW-Steering-Rack-/121278970
4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
5. [5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
7. [6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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References
1. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-Testarossa-TRW-Steering-Rack-/121278
2. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
4. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-Testarossa-TRW-Steering-Rack-/121278970
5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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