[DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
Julian Kift
julian_kift at hotmail.com
Sat Feb 22 17:36:46 EST 2014
Dave,
Thanks , yes I welded that shaft some time back, I'm on the camp that it doesn't serve any real purpose in Pantera, other than as you describe to provide one more point of slop in steering.
Julian
> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 14:07:15 -0800
> From: davel at emspace.com
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
>
> Julian
> I know you've already done this ---- but just in case.
>
> I chased tramlining and bump-steer on my 74L for 2 years.
> (with a rebuilt rack - my rebuild, Mike's recipe)
>
> 80% of it went away when I shimmed the sliding joint in the steering
> column.
> Looks like most of the rest is clearance at the front bulkhead; the
> whole column is moving laterally there.
>
> The slop in the sliding joint gave an amazing imitation of bump-steer as
> the load came off the front wheels.
> dave
>
> On 22/02/2014 9:43 AM, Julian Kift wrote:
> > Thomas,
> > You may very well be right, I can still feel a little bit of play in
> > the rack and that might be just the tolerance on the rack & pinion, but
> > this is the last thing to change before I have to just accept it was it
> > is or sell it. I modified my front a-arms for the full 7 degrees of
> > caster too. New tires improved it a little I now have the Michelin PS2,
> > whereas the previous Michelin Sport was the old Chevron tread style.
> > Off topic but the suspension geometry on the Si was changed and I have
> > heard the Si's are great cars to drive. I assume the body width was the
> > same as GT5S and they moved the center line of the wheels out via use
> > of longer a-arms. Anyone have dimensions of the Si suspension to hand?
> > Julian
> > > CC: julian_kift at hotmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
> > > From: thomas at hax.se
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
> > > Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:56:20 +0100
> > > To: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > >
> > > I rebuilt the rack in #9321 (1984 GT5) using a brass bushing that
> > Mike supplied, and I believe it is the later rack.
> > >
> > > Later I removed some of the thin shims to reduce steering wheel play.
> > >
> > > I have Marino's offset poly bushings and it is still a white knuckle
> > ride with the 285-40/15 Yokohama AVS-1 tires.
> > >
> > > I don't think this can be fixed with a new rack alone.
> > >
> > > Thomas
> > >
> > > > 22 feb 2014 kl. 08:13 skrev MikeLDrew at aol.com:
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 2/21/14 21 43 19, julian_kift at hotmail.com
> > writes:
> > > >
> > > > As you know I have replaced just about everything on the steering
> > > > end of my GT5 in an effort to try and make it an enjoyable drive,
> > > > alas it is still a white knuckle ride tram lining the slightest rut
> > > > in the road and darting when one changes lanes over the center
> > > > crest. The rack was rebuilt at some point by someone who was heavy
> > > > handed with vice grips and I have never been happy with it, so my
> > > > last ditch effort is to just change out the rack for a new one.
> > > > Mine being an early GT5 where Alejandro was still using up leftover
> > > > Ford parts has the same rack as my '74, so I'd be keen to know if
> > > > what you have in the box there fits. That said I'm intrigued that
> > > > later GT5's had a different rack, are they dimensionally the same
> > or
> > > > does the later rack alter (improve) the steering geometry?
> > > >
> > > >>>> The later rack appears to be dimensionally the same. The rack
> > > > housing tube is a smaller diameter, and there are crude spacers
> > that
> > > > wrap around the outside of it to make up the difference between the
> > > > small tube and the larger opening in the Pantera rack housing
> > clamps.
> > > > Here is what arrived at my house for me to repair, plucked from the
> > > > GT5:
> > > >
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-Testarossa-TRW-Steering-Rack-/121278970
> > > > 012
> > > > At least, I'm 99.9% certain it's the same. The tie rods are
> > completely
> > > > different from an early Pantera rack, the rack is different, the
> > > > housing is different, although the boot on the driver's side seems
> > > > largely the same (the passenger side is very different. You can see
> > > > the tube is much smaller in diameter as well.
> > > > But functionally it seems to be identical. As I said, I'm going to
> > > > fully compare the worn-out GT5 rack, a standard Pantera rack that I
> > > > keep on hand as a visual aid, and the new early 308 rack I just
> > bought,
> > > > and we will see wot's wot.
> > > > BTW Rick Moseley's 1980 308 uses a later-style rack I believe, with
> > a
> > > > different housing with the mounting clamps cast integral with the
> > > > housing. But internally it is the same as the Pantera rack, needs
> > the
> > > > same bronze bushing for a quality repair, etc. etc. Rick is the one
> > > > who contacted TRW (the outfit that purchased Cam Gears UK, the
> > original
> > > > maker of the Pantera and Ferrari racks) and asked what to use as a
> > > > lubricant; they told him in no uncertain terms that gear oil was no
> > > > longer in vogue and 0-weight grease was the lube of choice. The
> > > > GT5/Testa Rossa rack comes filled with this grease, as did the TRW
> > > > racks that some vendors were selling a few years ago, and also the
> > ones
> > > > that Roland was selling. I have no doubt the new rack we just
> > bought
> > > > will have grease as well.
> > > > (As an aside, I just replaced the worn-out rack on one of my VW
> > > > Sciroccos today. The new rack came from the German manufacturer
> > filled
> > > > with grease too).
> > > > Rick and I worked together with the fellow you saw on the F-chat
> > forum,
> > > > who has an early 308 GT4 Dino and had a blown-out rack. Some thief
> > had
> > > > charged him over $1000 to 'repair' his rack; he threw a home-made
> > > > nylong bushing inside, bludgeoned some later-style tie rods onto
> > the
> > > > rack, and overtightened them to the point where they were bound up
> > > > solid. The poor guy got the rack installed in his car with some
> > > > difficulty, but the car was virtually undriveable. He managed to
> > get
> > > > it to an alignment shop and they literally couldn't turn the tie
> > rods
> > > > to set the toe, so they sent him home.
> > > > With much long-distance hand-holding, he took the rack apart,
> > dumped
> > > > the new parts, got three (!) Pantera rack bushings from three
> > different
> > > > Pantera vendors, chose the one we told him to choose in the first
> > > > place, and put his rack back together using his original tie rods.
> > The
> > > > result was perfection and he was quite pleased, not only with the
> > > > results, but with himself for having taken on the challenge and
> > > > prevailing.
> > > > He has been trying to sell one of his three rack bushings on E-bay
> > for
> > > > quite some time now, with no takers; oddly, the other one sold
> > almost
> > > > instantly?
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > !DSPAM:53084e8a24993343511756!
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > > >
> > > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > !DSPAM:53084e8a24993343511756!
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
-------------- next part --------------
Dave,
Thanks , yes I welded that shaft some time back, I'm on the camp that
it doesn't serve any real purpose in Pantera, other than as you
describe to provide one more point of slop in steering.
Julian
> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 14:07:15 -0800
> From: davel at emspace.com
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
>
> Julian
> I know you've already done this ---- but just in case.
>
> I chased tramlining and bump-steer on my 74L for 2 years.
> (with a rebuilt rack - my rebuild, Mike's recipe)
>
> 80% of it went away when I shimmed the sliding joint in the steering
> column.
> Looks like most of the rest is clearance at the front bulkhead; the
> whole column is moving laterally there.
>
> The slop in the sliding joint gave an amazing imitation of bump-steer
as
> the load came off the front wheels.
> dave
>
> On 22/02/2014 9:43 AM, Julian Kift wrote:
> > Thomas,
> > You may very well be right, I can still feel a little bit of play
in
> > the rack and that might be just the tolerance on the rack & pinion,
but
> > this is the last thing to change before I have to just accept it
was it
> > is or sell it. I modified my front a-arms for the full 7 degrees of
> > caster too. New tires improved it a little I now have the Michelin
PS2,
> > whereas the previous Michelin Sport was the old Chevron tread
style.
> > Off topic but the suspension geometry on the Si was changed and I
have
> > heard the Si's are great cars to drive. I assume the body width was
the
> > same as GT5S and they moved the center line of the wheels out via
use
> > of longer a-arms. Anyone have dimensions of the Si suspension to
hand?
> > Julian
> > > CC: julian_kift at hotmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
> > > From: thomas at hax.se
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari
308
> > > Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:56:20 +0100
> > > To: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > >
> > > I rebuilt the rack in #9321 (1984 GT5) using a brass bushing that
> > Mike supplied, and I believe it is the later rack.
> > >
> > > Later I removed some of the thin shims to reduce steering wheel
play.
> > >
> > > I have Marino's offset poly bushings and it is still a white
knuckle
> > ride with the 285-40/15 Yokohama AVS-1 tires.
> > >
> > > I don't think this can be fixed with a new rack alone.
> > >
> > > Thomas
> > >
> > > > 22 feb 2014 kl. 08:13 skrev MikeLDrew at aol.com:
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 2/21/14 21 43 19, julian_kift at hotmail.com
> > writes:
> > > >
> > > > As you know I have replaced just about everything on the
steering
> > > > end of my GT5 in an effort to try and make it an enjoyable
drive,
> > > > alas it is still a white knuckle ride tram lining the slightest
rut
> > > > in the road and darting when one changes lanes over the center
> > > > crest. The rack was rebuilt at some point by someone who was
heavy
> > > > handed with vice grips and I have never been happy with it, so
my
> > > > last ditch effort is to just change out the rack for a new one.
> > > > Mine being an early GT5 where Alejandro was still using up
leftover
> > > > Ford parts has the same rack as my '74, so I'd be keen to know
if
> > > > what you have in the box there fits. That said I'm intrigued
that
> > > > later GT5's had a different rack, are they dimensionally the
same
> > or
> > > > does the later rack alter (improve) the steering geometry?
> > > >
> > > >>>> The later rack appears to be dimensionally the same. The
rack
> > > > housing tube is a smaller diameter, and there are crude spacers
> > that
> > > > wrap around the outside of it to make up the difference between
the
> > > > small tube and the larger opening in the Pantera rack housing
> > clamps.
> > > > Here is what arrived at my house for me to repair, plucked from
the
> > > > GT5:
> > > >
> >
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-Testarossa-TRW-Steering-Rack-/121278970
> > > > 012
> > > > At least, I'm 99.9% certain it's the same. The tie rods are
> > completely
> > > > different from an early Pantera rack, the rack is different,
the
> > > > housing is different, although the boot on the driver's side
seems
> > > > largely the same (the passenger side is very different. You can
see
> > > > the tube is much smaller in diameter as well.
> > > > But functionally it seems to be identical. As I said, I'm going
to
> > > > fully compare the worn-out GT5 rack, a standard Pantera rack
that I
> > > > keep on hand as a visual aid, and the new early 308 rack I just
> > bought,
> > > > and we will see wot's wot.
> > > > BTW Rick Moseley's 1980 308 uses a later-style rack I believe,
with
> > a
> > > > different housing with the mounting clamps cast integral with
the
> > > > housing. But internally it is the same as the Pantera rack,
needs
> > the
> > > > same bronze bushing for a quality repair, etc. etc. Rick is the
one
> > > > who contacted TRW (the outfit that purchased Cam Gears UK, the
> > original
> > > > maker of the Pantera and Ferrari racks) and asked what to use
as a
> > > > lubricant; they told him in no uncertain terms that gear oil
was no
> > > > longer in vogue and 0-weight grease was the lube of choice. The
> > > > GT5/Testa Rossa rack comes filled with this grease, as did the
TRW
> > > > racks that some vendors were selling a few years ago, and also
the
> > ones
> > > > that Roland was selling. I have no doubt the new rack we just
> > bought
> > > > will have grease as well.
> > > > (As an aside, I just replaced the worn-out rack on one of my VW
> > > > Sciroccos today. The new rack came from the German manufacturer
> > filled
> > > > with grease too).
> > > > Rick and I worked together with the fellow you saw on the
F-chat
> > forum,
> > > > who has an early 308 GT4 Dino and had a blown-out rack. Some
thief
> > had
> > > > charged him over $1000 to 'repair' his rack; he threw a
home-made
> > > > nylong bushing inside, bludgeoned some later-style tie rods
onto
> > the
> > > > rack, and overtightened them to the point where they were bound
up
> > > > solid. The poor guy got the rack installed in his car with some
> > > > difficulty, but the car was virtually undriveable. He managed
to
> > get
> > > > it to an alignment shop and they literally couldn't turn the
tie
> > rods
> > > > to set the toe, so they sent him home.
> > > > With much long-distance hand-holding, he took the rack apart,
> > dumped
> > > > the new parts, got three (!) Pantera rack bushings from three
> > different
> > > > Pantera vendors, chose the one we told him to choose in the
first
> > > > place, and put his rack back together using his original tie
rods.
> > The
> > > > result was perfection and he was quite pleased, not only with
the
> > > > results, but with himself for having taken on the challenge and
> > > > prevailing.
> > > > He has been trying to sell one of his three rack bushings on
E-bay
> > for
> > > > quite some time now, with no takers; oddly, the other one sold
> > almost
> > > > instantly?
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > !DSPAM:53084e8a24993343511756!
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > > >
> > > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > !DSPAM:53084e8a24993343511756!
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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