[DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
Julian Kift
julian_kift at hotmail.com
Sat Feb 22 12:43:48 EST 2014
Thomas,
You may very well be right, I can still feel a little bit of play in the rack and that might be just the tolerance on the rack & pinion, but this is the last thing to change before I have to just accept it was it is or sell it. I modified my front a-arms for the full 7 degrees of caster too. New tires improved it a little I now have the Michelin PS2, whereas the previous Michelin Sport was the old Chevron tread style.
Off topic but the suspension geometry on the Si was changed and I have heard the Si's are great cars to drive. I assume the body width was the same as GT5S and they moved the center line of the wheels out via use of longer a-arms. Anyone have dimensions of the Si suspension to hand?
Julian
> CC: julian_kift at hotmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
> From: thomas at hax.se
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:56:20 +0100
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com
>
> I rebuilt the rack in #9321 (1984 GT5) using a brass bushing that Mike supplied, and I believe it is the later rack.
>
> Later I removed some of the thin shims to reduce steering wheel play.
>
> I have Marino's offset poly bushings and it is still a white knuckle ride with the 285-40/15 Yokohama AVS-1 tires.
>
> I don't think this can be fixed with a new rack alone.
>
> Thomas
>
> > 22 feb 2014 kl. 08:13 skrev MikeLDrew at aol.com:
> >
> > In a message dated 2/21/14 21 43 19, julian_kift at hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > As you know I have replaced just about everything on the steering
> > end of my GT5 in an effort to try and make it an enjoyable drive,
> > alas it is still a white knuckle ride tram lining the slightest rut
> > in the road and darting when one changes lanes over the center
> > crest. The rack was rebuilt at some point by someone who was heavy
> > handed with vice grips and I have never been happy with it, so my
> > last ditch effort is to just change out the rack for a new one.
> > Mine being an early GT5 where Alejandro was still using up leftover
> > Ford parts has the same rack as my '74, so I'd be keen to know if
> > what you have in the box there fits. That said I'm intrigued that
> > later GT5's had a different rack, are they dimensionally the same or
> > does the later rack alter (improve) the steering geometry?
> >
> >>>> The later rack appears to be dimensionally the same. The rack
> > housing tube is a smaller diameter, and there are crude spacers that
> > wrap around the outside of it to make up the difference between the
> > small tube and the larger opening in the Pantera rack housing clamps.
> > Here is what arrived at my house for me to repair, plucked from the
> > GT5:
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-Testarossa-TRW-Steering-Rack-/121278970
> > 012
> > At least, I'm 99.9% certain it's the same. The tie rods are completely
> > different from an early Pantera rack, the rack is different, the
> > housing is different, although the boot on the driver's side seems
> > largely the same (the passenger side is very different. You can see
> > the tube is much smaller in diameter as well.
> > But functionally it seems to be identical. As I said, I'm going to
> > fully compare the worn-out GT5 rack, a standard Pantera rack that I
> > keep on hand as a visual aid, and the new early 308 rack I just bought,
> > and we will see wot's wot.
> > BTW Rick Moseley's 1980 308 uses a later-style rack I believe, with a
> > different housing with the mounting clamps cast integral with the
> > housing. But internally it is the same as the Pantera rack, needs the
> > same bronze bushing for a quality repair, etc. etc. Rick is the one
> > who contacted TRW (the outfit that purchased Cam Gears UK, the original
> > maker of the Pantera and Ferrari racks) and asked what to use as a
> > lubricant; they told him in no uncertain terms that gear oil was no
> > longer in vogue and 0-weight grease was the lube of choice. The
> > GT5/Testa Rossa rack comes filled with this grease, as did the TRW
> > racks that some vendors were selling a few years ago, and also the ones
> > that Roland was selling. I have no doubt the new rack we just bought
> > will have grease as well.
> > (As an aside, I just replaced the worn-out rack on one of my VW
> > Sciroccos today. The new rack came from the German manufacturer filled
> > with grease too).
> > Rick and I worked together with the fellow you saw on the F-chat forum,
> > who has an early 308 GT4 Dino and had a blown-out rack. Some thief had
> > charged him over $1000 to 'repair' his rack; he threw a home-made
> > nylong bushing inside, bludgeoned some later-style tie rods onto the
> > rack, and overtightened them to the point where they were bound up
> > solid. The poor guy got the rack installed in his car with some
> > difficulty, but the car was virtually undriveable. He managed to get
> > it to an alignment shop and they literally couldn't turn the tie rods
> > to set the toe, so they sent him home.
> > With much long-distance hand-holding, he took the rack apart, dumped
> > the new parts, got three (!) Pantera rack bushings from three different
> > Pantera vendors, chose the one we told him to choose in the first
> > place, and put his rack back together using his original tie rods. The
> > result was perfection and he was quite pleased, not only with the
> > results, but with himself for having taken on the challenge and
> > prevailing.
> > He has been trying to sell one of his three rack bushings on E-bay for
> > quite some time now, with no takers; oddly, the other one sold almost
> > instantly?
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > !DSPAM:53084e8a24993343511756!
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> > !DSPAM:53084e8a24993343511756!
-------------- next part --------------
Thomas,
You may very well be right, I can still feel a little bit of play in
the rack and that might be just the tolerance on the rack & pinion, but
this is the last thing to change before I have to just accept it was it
is or sell it. I modified my front a-arms for the full 7 degrees of
caster too. New tires improved it a little I now have the Michelin PS2,
whereas the previous Michelin Sport was the old Chevron tread style.
Off topic but the suspension geometry on the Si was changed and I have
heard the Si's are great cars to drive. I assume the body width was the
same as GT5S and they moved the center line of the wheels out via use
of longer a-arms. Anyone have dimensions of the Si suspension to hand?
Julian
> CC: julian_kift at hotmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
> From: thomas at hax.se
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Steering Rack Interchange Ferrari 308
> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:56:20 +0100
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com
>
> I rebuilt the rack in #9321 (1984 GT5) using a brass bushing that
Mike supplied, and I believe it is the later rack.
>
> Later I removed some of the thin shims to reduce steering wheel play.
>
> I have Marino's offset poly bushings and it is still a white knuckle
ride with the 285-40/15 Yokohama AVS-1 tires.
>
> I don't think this can be fixed with a new rack alone.
>
> Thomas
>
> > 22 feb 2014 kl. 08:13 skrev MikeLDrew at aol.com:
> >
> > In a message dated 2/21/14 21 43 19, julian_kift at hotmail.com
writes:
> >
> > As you know I have replaced just about everything on the steering
> > end of my GT5 in an effort to try and make it an enjoyable drive,
> > alas it is still a white knuckle ride tram lining the slightest rut
> > in the road and darting when one changes lanes over the center
> > crest. The rack was rebuilt at some point by someone who was heavy
> > handed with vice grips and I have never been happy with it, so my
> > last ditch effort is to just change out the rack for a new one.
> > Mine being an early GT5 where Alejandro was still using up leftover
> > Ford parts has the same rack as my '74, so I'd be keen to know if
> > what you have in the box there fits. That said I'm intrigued that
> > later GT5's had a different rack, are they dimensionally the same
or
> > does the later rack alter (improve) the steering geometry?
> >
> >>>> The later rack appears to be dimensionally the same. The rack
> > housing tube is a smaller diameter, and there are crude spacers
that
> > wrap around the outside of it to make up the difference between the
> > small tube and the larger opening in the Pantera rack housing
clamps.
> > Here is what arrived at my house for me to repair, plucked from the
> > GT5:
> >
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-Testarossa-TRW-Steering-Rack-/121278970
> > 012
> > At least, I'm 99.9% certain it's the same. The tie rods are
completely
> > different from an early Pantera rack, the rack is different, the
> > housing is different, although the boot on the driver's side seems
> > largely the same (the passenger side is very different. You can see
> > the tube is much smaller in diameter as well.
> > But functionally it seems to be identical. As I said, I'm going to
> > fully compare the worn-out GT5 rack, a standard Pantera rack that I
> > keep on hand as a visual aid, and the new early 308 rack I just
bought,
> > and we will see wot's wot.
> > BTW Rick Moseley's 1980 308 uses a later-style rack I believe, with
a
> > different housing with the mounting clamps cast integral with the
> > housing. But internally it is the same as the Pantera rack, needs
the
> > same bronze bushing for a quality repair, etc. etc. Rick is the one
> > who contacted TRW (the outfit that purchased Cam Gears UK, the
original
> > maker of the Pantera and Ferrari racks) and asked what to use as a
> > lubricant; they told him in no uncertain terms that gear oil was no
> > longer in vogue and 0-weight grease was the lube of choice. The
> > GT5/Testa Rossa rack comes filled with this grease, as did the TRW
> > racks that some vendors were selling a few years ago, and also the
ones
> > that Roland was selling. I have no doubt the new rack we just
bought
> > will have grease as well.
> > (As an aside, I just replaced the worn-out rack on one of my VW
> > Sciroccos today. The new rack came from the German manufacturer
filled
> > with grease too).
> > Rick and I worked together with the fellow you saw on the F-chat
forum,
> > who has an early 308 GT4 Dino and had a blown-out rack. Some thief
had
> > charged him over $1000 to 'repair' his rack; he threw a home-made
> > nylong bushing inside, bludgeoned some later-style tie rods onto
the
> > rack, and overtightened them to the point where they were bound up
> > solid. The poor guy got the rack installed in his car with some
> > difficulty, but the car was virtually undriveable. He managed to
get
> > it to an alignment shop and they literally couldn't turn the tie
rods
> > to set the toe, so they sent him home.
> > With much long-distance hand-holding, he took the rack apart,
dumped
> > the new parts, got three (!) Pantera rack bushings from three
different
> > Pantera vendors, chose the one we told him to choose in the first
> > place, and put his rack back together using his original tie rods.
The
> > result was perfection and he was quite pleased, not only with the
> > results, but with himself for having taken on the challenge and
> > prevailing.
> > He has been trying to sell one of his three rack bushings on E-bay
for
> > quite some time now, with no takers; oddly, the other one sold
almost
> > instantly?
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > !DSPAM:53084e8a24993343511756!
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> > !DSPAM:53084e8a24993343511756!
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