[DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera

Will Kooiman will.kooiman at gmail.com
Fri Feb 7 01:15:46 EST 2014 

I work in the software industry.

E-mails are pretty easy to forge.

They are even easier to modify.

We used to send e-mail to people at work on birthdays.  They said something
like, "Hey, today is my birthday.  I'm pretty shy, but I'd appreciate it if
you stopped by and wished me a happy b-day."  We sent it as the birthday boy
to everyone in the department.

We stopped when we realized how badly it could be misused.

But e-mail hasn't changed.  Even today, we send e-mail from the computer for
monitors, and we can say they are from anyone we want.
--
Will

From:  "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
Date:  Friday, February 7, 2014 12:13 AM
To:  Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
Cc:  <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject:  Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera


I'm saying that I can change details on emails and change the time stamp to
make it look legit.

Not familiar with aol, but I doubt that anyone can search your emails except
you.

So one of you has the real one and one has the enhanced one, since the time
stamp has been adjusted, a layman judge isn't going to deal with it and
disallow all of them.
There isn't enough money involved to engage forensic computer techs.

So forget all this crap, write it down, make two sets of originals, sign
them both and each party keeps an original copy.

There are ways to do anything, are you going to committ fraud, or pay to
prove fraud...unlikely.

Michael

On Feb 6, 2014 11:36 PM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
> So you're saying you could construct an email from me to you giving you
> permission to do XXX work on my car at YYY price, date it as you liked, and
> put it on AOL for anyone to search and find?
>  
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: michael <michael at michaelshortt.com>
> To: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
> Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>; Bjoern Flesland <bflesland at gmail.com>
> Sent: Thu, Feb 6, 2014 4:57 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
> 
> Any 12 year old can change the content of an email and reset the computer
> clock to give it a new time stamp.
> Michael
> On Feb 6, 2014 1:19 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
>>> You will find emails are generally worthless in court if it comes to that.
>> I'm not a lawyer but if the shop had email responses from the customer
>> confirming "yes, I want XXX done at YYY price" I would think it would protect
>> them against charges that they had done work without permission.  (Not that
>> this applies here--  I just find it hard to believe that emails are
>> meaningless in court-- certainly better than "he told me verbally.")
>>  
>> In California the shop has to give you a written estimate and document that
>> they called you on certain dates to confirm that you agree to any further
>> work.  My understanding is that if they do stuff you don't approve you don't
>> have to pay for it-- the shop has to eat it.
>>  
>> Do you have the original estimate and itemization of things beyond that you
>> agreed to?
>>  
>> Jim
>>  
>>  
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: michael <michael at michaelshortt.com>
>> To: Bjoern Flesland <bflesland at gmail.com>
>> Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
>> Sent: Wed, Feb 5, 2014 9:11 pm
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
>> 
>> You will find emails are generally worthless in court if it comes to that.
>> I would have a written contact with each and every
>> Itemized task and quoted cost beside it.
>> I would have completion dates for each project as well.
>> It's only legal if you both sign it, a notary seal makes it all the better.
>> You should also have warranty terms and a stated policy of organization of
>> receipts. 
>> Any items requiring additional hours or change orders should require a signed
>> addendum sheet.
>> No honest shop should object, it protects them as much as it does you.
>> Of course a written list and complete photographic inventory and condition of
>> the "before" car should help settle any issues with dents, scratches, missing
>> parts, etc.
>> Michael Shortt
>> Good fences make good neighbors, a solid restoration agreement will keep your
>> shop and you on good terms before, during and after your car has been
>> serviced.
>> On Feb 5, 2014 11:48 PM, "bflesland at gmail.com" <bflesland at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> So what's the best suggested approach of having major work done at a car
>>> resto/body shop?
>>> I am myself starting having a car restored/built and painted by a reputable
>>> shop as well and want to avoid any future problems.
>>> 
>>> I understand paying upfront is a no-no.
>>> I don't have a contract but everything to be done is in writing by email.
>>> I am getting billed along the way as work progress.
>>> 
>>> Is a contract mandatory in case of future problems?
>>> 
>>> Hope I am not hijacking the thread here but this has happened before and
>>> will again for somebody in the future, for sure!
>>> I think bad communications and/or unrealistic expectations may be the cause
>>> sometimes, together with poorly performed work, not done in a timely manner.
>>> Once I had to retrieve a car from a shop due to the shop owner had personal
>>> problems, long sad story...
>>> 
>>> The thing today with internet and everything, is that from someone you hear
>>> a shop is very good and reputable.
>>> But if you search them yourself on the web you find bad stories posted as
>>> well.
>>> So not easy to pick the right shop.
>>> 
>>> Sorry for the long rant!
>>> Cheers Bjoern
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Den 5. feb. 2014 kl. 20:38 skrev audionut at hushmail.com:
>>> 
>>>> Sad to hear stuff like this.
>>>> 
>>>> Don's shop did my A/C upgrade on time at a fair price around the year 2008.
>>>> Hard to believe a respected, time-tested shop like this screwed up but....
>>>> 
>>>> The shop is nearly always responsible for horror stories like this.  It is
>>>> the responsibility of the shop to quote the job right, clearly, in writing,
>>>> and complete
>>>> the job within a reasonable time, barring circumstances beyond the shops'
>>>> control.  Misunderstandings should be easily cleared up by the contract, if
>>>> they are not,
>>>> then the shop f'd up.
>>>> 
>>>> If the job gets out of hand in some way and the customer gets upset, then
>>>> it is nothing but a petty, juvenile, bully attitude if the shop then says
>>>> "Hey if you don't like it, I got your car, I got your money so, nyah nyah
>>>> nyah.  What are you gonna do about it?"
>>>> 
>>>> I can't see how Ed did anything wrong other than pay in full up front.
>>>> Always a bad idea.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent using Hushmail
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On February 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>  
>>>>> Just to give us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the
>>>>> original estimate of $36K?  That's a significant amount of money.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Jim
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
>>>>> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
>>>>> 
>>>>> To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,
>>>>> 
>>>>> You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage he did
>>>>> to my Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years! It is
>>>>> shameful behaviour!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would
>>>>> rather you did not. Don deserves no advertising.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more dollars out
>>>>> of me, and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all warranty for work he
>>>>> completed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to finish,
>>>>> and I am out of a lot of cash.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends worldwide on
>>>>> Facebook. I guess he will soon.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ed
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>>>>>> Date: 4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT
>>>>>> To: Kevin Ryniker <durland at san.rr.com>, 'Westmicro' <westmicro at aol.com>,
>>>>>> "mikebecker at cox.net" <mikebecker at cox.net>, "edducati at mac.com"
>>>>>> <edducati at mac.com>, "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com"
>>>>>> <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
>>>>>> Cc: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small,
>>>>>> inexpensive part for my car.  His response was ³that¹s all you want to
>>>>>> buy?² to which I said yes.  He then sighed and reluctantly took my order.
>>>>>> Upon receipt, the part was a poorly reproduced version of the original
>>>>>> part, the art work was off-center and after attempting to ³fix² it
>>>>>> myself, I threw it in the trash.  So my only experience with him was he
>>>>>> was uninterested in my business and the product he sold and represented
>>>>>> me was shit.  So no, I will not call him ever again because to me, that
>>>>>> behavior speaks to total lack of INTEGRITY AND ETHICS.  I hope the
>>>>>> $12,000 you bought from him were better than my $25. part.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Kevin Ryniker
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
>>>>>> To: 'Westmicro'; mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com;
>>>>>> sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> I Have to agree with Mike to the extent that there must be something else
>>>>>> going on. This sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a
>>>>>> producer on a show that got in over his head.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at least, never had a problem, I¹ve
>>>>>> easily bought $12,000 worth of parts from him. He has always stood behind
>>>>>> his work and his dealings with me. He even warranty parts that I got from
>>>>>> Wilkenson and Hall, for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don
>>>>>> but I think he is Don¹s brother, they used to be in business with each
>>>>>> other, might be worthwhile to call Bobby. Just an idea.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Any help I can aid in please feel free to ask.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  Durland Productions
>>>>>> Kevin Ryniker, Cell (858) 336 9803
>>>>>> Phone (858) 693 6207, Fax (858) 693 6227
>>>>>> 8766 Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126
>>>>>> www.durlandproductions.com
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Westmicro
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
>>>>>> To: mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Please pass all this on to Don.
>>>>>> Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and he will make
>>>>>> it right.
>>>>>> Reputation and doing the right thing is Everything in Business.
>>>>>> Dave Nuding
>>>>>> Western Micrographics & Imaging Systems
>>>>>> Houston / San Diego
>>>>>> 858-722-5500
>>>>>> http://www.westernmicrographics.com
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Michael Becker <mikebecker at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: 'Ed Mendez' <edducati at mac.com>; 'San Diego Panteras'
>>>>>> <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>>>>>> Holy crap, that's terrible Ed.  So sorry to hear this.  I don't
>>>>>> understand,
>>>>>> I've never heard a bad thing about Don.  I've also never had any work
>>>>>> done
>>>>>> by him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for itself.  I
>>>>>> can't imagine what his reasoning is.  I don't have any kind of
>>>>>> relationship
>>>>>> with him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him.  Maybe something
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> got into him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in.
>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>> he's got some other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point or
>>>>>> something like that.  Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good on
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>> I would hold off on slinging mud until all options for reconciliation are
>>>>>> exhausted. 
>>>>>> Hang in there,
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Ed Mendez
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:39 PM
>>>>>> To: San Diego Panteras
>>>>>> Subject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagged but that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> nothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me before I
>>>>>> left.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final
>>>>>> invoiced
>>>>>> bill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the Pantera
>>>>>> Electronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera not
>>>>>> charging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera Electronics
>>>>>> however, it was from Don not following the simple directions and hooking
>>>>>> things up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out the
>>>>>> issues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out of my
>>>>>> shop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running either.
>>>>>> He
>>>>>> verbally told me on the 22nd that it would be about $2000 more and he
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> have it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails, the
>>>>>> seat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked me.
>>>>>> He
>>>>>> said that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was
>>>>>> leaving,
>>>>>> he wanted cash, and would not release the car until I paid him in full!
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> I have always paid him up front, and in advance. Since I was leaving the
>>>>>> country, he gave me no choice, I had to come up with cash. He delivered
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> car to me, backed it out of his trailer still hooked to the cable, I then
>>>>>> paid him in full and he refused to unhook the car until I signed a waiver
>>>>>> releasing him of any work related defects!!!
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Now the car is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in, the
>>>>>> belts
>>>>>> were not done, seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he left
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> brand new air compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car runs
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> electrically a mess, far from being done, and far from being in a state
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> condition for the money I paid him.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front of
>>>>>> whom? The new President of POCA!
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I just wonder what I did, I
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> utterly insulted. What did I do to deserve this? His wife told me Don was
>>>>>> mad because I did not let him finish the car!!!??? I paid him a total of
>>>>>> $42,000. He knew the drop dead date months before I was leaving. Even
>>>>>> John Haas of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don did not call him
>>>>>> once!!! I asked John Haas to call him.
>>>>>> At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can please
>>>>>> offer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state to
>>>>>> ship
>>>>>> overseas. 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all I have
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> you guys to spread the word about what he did to me.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Ed Mendez
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>> 
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