[DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera

Thu Feb 6 23:35:43 EST 2014

So you're saying you could construct an email from me to you giving you permission to do XXX work on my car at YYY price, date it as you liked, and put it on AOL for anyone to search and find?

-----Original Message-----
From: michael <michael at michaelshortt.com>
To: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>; Bjoern Flesland <bflesland at gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 6, 2014 4:57 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera

Any 12 year old can change the content of an email and reset the computer clock to give it a new time stamp.
Michael
On Feb 6, 2014 1:19 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:

You will find emails are generally worthless in court if it comes to that.

I'm not a lawyer but if the shop had email responses from the customer confirming "yes, I want XXX done at YYY price" I would think it would protect them against charges that they had done work without permission.  (Not that this applies here--  I just find it hard to believe that emails are meaningless in court-- certainly better than "he told me verbally.")

In California the shop has to give you a written estimate and document that they called you on certain dates to confirm that you agree to any further work.  My understanding is that if they do stuff you don't approve you don't have to pay for it-- the shop has to eat it.

Do you have the original estimate and itemization of things beyond that you agreed to?

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: michael <michael at michaelshortt.com>
To: Bjoern Flesland <bflesland at gmail.com>
Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 5, 2014 9:11 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera

You will find emails are generally worthless in court if it comes to that.
I would have a written contact with each and every
Itemized task and quoted cost beside it.
I would have completion dates for each project as well.
It's only legal if you both sign it, a notary seal makes it all the better.
You should also have warranty terms and a stated policy of organization of receipts. 
Any items requiring additional hours or change orders should require a signed addendum sheet.
No honest shop should object, it protects them as much as it does you.
Of course a written list and complete photographic inventory and condition of the "before" car should help settle any issues with dents, scratches, missing parts, etc.

Michael Shortt
Good fences make good neighbors, a solid restoration agreement will keep your shop and you on good terms before, during and after your car has been serviced.
On Feb 5, 2014 11:48 PM, "bflesland at gmail.com" <bflesland at gmail.com> wrote:

So what's the best suggested approach of having major work done at a car resto/body shop?
I am myself starting having a car restored/built and painted by a reputable shop as well and want to avoid any future problems.

I understand paying upfront is a no-no. 
I don't have a contract but everything to be done is in writing by email.
I am getting billed along the way as work progress.

Is a contract mandatory in case of future problems?

Hope I am not hijacking the thread here but this has happened before and will again for somebody in the future, for sure! 
I think bad communications and/or unrealistic expectations may be the cause sometimes, together with poorly performed work, not done in a timely manner. 
Once I had to retrieve a car from a shop due to the shop owner had personal problems, long sad story...

The thing today with internet and everything, is that from someone you hear a shop is very good and reputable. 
But if you search them yourself on the web you find bad stories posted as well.
So not easy to pick the right shop. 

Sorry for the long rant!
Cheers Bjoern

Den 5. feb. 2014 kl. 20:38 skrev audionut at hushmail.com:

Sad to hear stuff like this.

Don's shop did my A/C upgrade on time at a fair price around the year 2008.  Hard to believe a respected, time-tested shop like this screwed up but....

The shop is nearly always responsible for horror stories like this.  It is the responsibility of the shop to quote the job right, clearly, in writing, and complete
the job within a reasonable time, barring circumstances beyond the shops' control.  Misunderstandings should be easily cleared up by the contract, if they are not,
then the shop f'd up.  

If the job gets out of hand in some way and the customer gets upset, then it is nothing but a petty, juvenile, bully attitude if the shop then says "Hey if you don't like it, I got your car, I got your money so, nyah nyah nyah.  What are you gonna do about it?" 

I can't see how Ed did anything wrong other than pay in full up front.  Always a bad idea.

Sent using Hushmail

On February 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
Ed,

Just to give us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the original estimate of $36K?  That's a significant amount of money.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera

To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,

You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you. 

As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage he did to my Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years! It is shameful behaviour!

Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would rather you did not. Don deserves no advertising.

Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more dollars out of me, and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all warranty for work he completed.

Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to finish, and I am out of a lot of cash.

I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends worldwide on Facebook. I guess he will soon.

Ed

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>

Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read

Date: 4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT

To: Kevin Ryniker <durland at san.rr.com>, 'Westmicro' <westmicro at aol.com>, "mikebecker at cox.net" <mikebecker at cox.net>, "edducati at mac.com" <edducati at mac.com>, "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com" <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>

Cc: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>

I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small, inexpensive part for my car.  His response was “that’s all you want to buy?” to which I said yes.  He then sighed and reluctantly took my order.  Upon receipt, the part was a poorly reproduced version of the original part, the art work was off-center and after attempting to “fix” it myself, I threw it in the trash.  So my only experience with him was he was uninterested in my business and the product he sold and represented me was shit.  So no, I will not call him ever again because to me, that behavior speaks to total lack of INTEGRITY AND ETHICS.  I hope the $12,000 you bought from him were better than my $25. part.

From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Ryniker
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
To: 'Westmicro'; mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read

I Have to agree with Mike to the extent that there must be something else going on. This sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a producer on a show that got in over his head.

I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at least, never had a problem, I’ve easily bought $12,000 worth of parts from him. He has always stood behind his work and his dealings with me. He even warranty parts that I got from Wilkenson and Hall, for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don but I think he is Don’s brother, they used to be in business with each other, might be worthwhile to call Bobby. Just an idea.

Any help I can aid in please feel free to ask.

 Durland Productions
Kevin Ryniker, Cell (858) 336 9803
Phone (858) 693 6207, Fax (858) 693 6227
8766 Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126
www.durlandproductions.com

From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Westmicro
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
To: mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read

Please pass all this on to Don.

Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and he will make it right.

Reputation and doing the right thing is Everything in Business.

Dave Nuding

Western Micrographics & Imaging Systems

Houston / San Diego

858-722-5500

http://www.westernmicrographics.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Becker <mikebecker at cox.net>
To: 'Ed Mendez' <edducati at mac.com>; 'San Diego Panteras' <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read

Holy crap, that's terrible Ed.  So sorry to hear this.  I don't understand,
I've never heard a bad thing about Don.  I've also never had any work done
by him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for itself.  I
can't imagine what his reasoning is.  I don't have any kind of relationship
with him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him.  Maybe something just
got into him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in.  Maybe
he's got some other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point or
something like that.  Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good on it.
I would hold off on slinging mud until all options for reconciliation are
exhausted. 
Hang in there, 
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ed Mendez
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:39 PM
To: San Diego Panteras
Subject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read

Hi all,

Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagged but that is
nothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me before I left.

After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final invoiced
bill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the Pantera
Electronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera not
charging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera Electronics
however, it was from Don not following the simple directions and hooking
things up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out the
issues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out of my
shop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running either. He
verbally told me on the 22nd that it would be about $2000 more and he would
have it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails, the
seat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked me. He
said that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was leaving,
he wanted cash, and would not release the car until I paid him in full! 

I have always paid him up front, and in advance. Since I was leaving the
country, he gave me no choice, I had to come up with cash. He delivered the
car to me, backed it out of his trailer still hooked to the cable, I then
paid him in full and he refused to unhook the car until I signed a waiver
releasing him of any work related defects!!!

He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!

Now the car is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in, the belts
were not done, seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he left my
brand new air compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car runs but
electrically a mess, far from being done, and far from being in a state of
condition for the money I paid him.

Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front of
whom? The new President of POCA!

Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I just wonder what I did, I was
utterly insulted. What did I do to deserve this? His wife told me Don was
mad because I did not let him finish the car!!!??? I paid him a total of
$42,000. He knew the drop dead date months before I was leaving. Even John Haas of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don did not call him once!!! I asked John Haas to call him.

At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can please
offer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state to ship
overseas. 

Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all I have is
you guys to spread the word about what he did to me.

Kind regards,

Ed Mendez

Sent from my iPad

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