[DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera

[Himes, Terry (397C)]

Well put.  It is the same in the software world.  And while you may have a requirements doc, those requirements
are sometimes vague.  ALWAYS communicate with your customer.  But sometimes, in business, customers are
SO difficult (read: ridiculously unreasonable), it's better to cut your losses and let your competition deal with them.  ;-)


Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Deep Impact Sequence Team Lead
Deep Impact Spacecraft Engineer & Activity Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell:     (818) 653-8213
Fax:     (818) 393-3147
thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>


From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com<mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com>>
Reply-To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com<mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com>>
Date: Thursday, February 6, 2014 11:17 AM
To: fastgrandma <fastgrandma at aol.com<mailto:fastgrandma at aol.com>>, "willibillie at live.de<mailto:willibillie at live.de>" <willibillie at live.de<mailto:willibillie at live.de>>
Cc: "detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>" <detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera

My experience from having my own business that it is all to easy to do additional work that should be done before running it past a client.  I always eat the cost on this stuff and need to have more discipline and contact the client before doing any additional work, but sometimes it creeps in.  I assume that is a common problem with people in a service industry, and is a major problem for us.  Just because you are good at doing the work does not mean you are good at running a business.

Ken


From: fastgrandma <fastgrandma at aol.com<mailto:fastgrandma at aol.com>>
To: willibillie at live.de<mailto:willibillie at live.de>
Cc: detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera

Not what I meant to imply, simply make sure you have all the costs listed and double check them at the end; its what any shopper/buyer has to do to survive in this world.  One can get bitten by fine print or a 'simple' thing that didn't get mentioned.  If you've never had this happen I assume you're living in a fantasy land.



-----Original Message-----
From: R.J <willibillie at live.de<mailto:willibillie at live.de>>
To: fastgrandma <fastgrandma at aol.com<mailto:fastgrandma at aol.com>>
Cc: bflesland <bflesland at gmail.com<mailto:bflesland at gmail.com>>; detomaso <detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>
Sent: Thu, Feb 6, 2014 1:52 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera

So Judy, your bottom line is, only a vendor, that is not looking for profit, is trustworthy. Now i know why the most vendors are totally fedup with the Pantera folks.

Am 06.02.2014 um 06:20 schrieb fastgrandma <fastgrandma at aol.com>:

>From hearing stories - not that I pay total attention to this factor of our car - but one does stick out in my mind.  The owner decided he wanted various things done to his car which he was told could be done.  He had car delivered to vendor - no, I'm not mentioning names of either party here - and said do it.  From what we were told by him not all prices were discussed altho here I'm not completely sure.  Therefore when said vendor called and said car is ready to be picked up and named an astronomical sum, our friend about had a stroke.  He then sat down with the vendor and went over the bill item by item.  Some things shouldn't have been charged but were and they did work it out but end result was he spent a lot more $$ than he'd planned to and one needs to know these costs beforehand.

Also, with having been in the club nearly 34 years, I think it can pretty much be said no vendor is 100% trustworthy; they're looking to make a profit.

Judy



-----Original Message-----
From: bflesland <bflesland at gmail.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 5, 2014 8:48 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera

So what's the best suggested approach of having major work done at a car resto/body shop?
I am myself starting having a car restored/built and painted by a reputable shop as well and want to avoid any future problems.

I understand paying upfront is a no-no.
I don't have a contract but everything to be done is in writing by email.
I am getting billed along the way as work progress.

Is a contract mandatory in case of future problems?

Hope I am not hijacking the thread here but this has happened before and will again for somebody in the future, for sure!
I think bad communications and/or unrealistic expectations may be the cause sometimes, together with poorly performed work, not done in a timely manner.
Once I had to retrieve a car from a shop due to the shop owner had personal problems, long sad story...

The thing today with internet and everything, is that from someone you hear a shop is very good and reputable.
But if you search them yourself on the web you find bad stories posted as well.
So not easy to pick the right shop.

Sorry for the long rant!
Cheers Bjoern


Den 5. feb. 2014 kl. 20:38 skrev audionut at hushmail.com:

Sad to hear stuff like this.

Don's shop did my A/C upgrade on time at a fair price around the year 2008.  Hard to believe a respected, time-tested shop like this screwed up but....

The shop is nearly always responsible for horror stories like this.  It is the responsibility of the shop to quote the job right, clearly, in writing, and complete
the job within a reasonable time, barring circumstances beyond the shops' control.  Misunderstandings should be easily cleared up by the contract, if they are not,
then the shop f'd up.

If the job gets out of hand in some way and the customer gets upset, then it is nothing but a petty, juvenile, bully attitude if the shop then says "Hey if you don't like it, I got your car, I got your money so, nyah nyah nyah.  What are you gonna do about it?"

I can't see how Ed did anything wrong other than pay in full up front.  Always a bad idea.







Sent using Hushmail


On February 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
Ed,

Just to give us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the original estimate of $36K?  That's a significant amount of money.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera

To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,

You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you.

As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage he did to my Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years! It is shameful behaviour!

Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would rather you did not. Don deserves no advertising.

Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more dollars out of me, and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all warranty for work he completed.

Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to finish, and I am out of a lot of cash.

I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends worldwide on Facebook. I guess he will soon.

Ed


Begin forwarded message:

From: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Date: 4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT
To: Kevin Ryniker <durland at san.rr.com>, 'Westmicro' <westmicro at aol.com>, "mikebecker at cox.net" <mikebecker at cox.net>, "edducati at mac.com" <edducati at mac.com>, "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com" <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
Cc: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>

I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small, inexpensive part for my car.  His response was “that’s all you want to buy?” to which I said yes.  He then sighed and reluctantly took my order.  Upon receipt, the part was a poorly reproduced version of the original part, the art work was off-center and after attempting to “fix” it myself, I threw it in the trash.  So my only experience with him was he was uninterested in my business and the product he sold and represented me was shit.  So no, I will not call him ever again because to me, that behavior speaks to total lack of INTEGRITY AND ETHICS.  I hope the $12,000 you bought from him were better than my $25. part.

From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Ryniker
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
To: 'Westmicro'; mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read

I Have to agree with Mike to the extent that there must be something else going on. This sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a producer on a show that got in over his head.

I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at least, never had a problem, I’ve easily bought $12,000 worth of parts from him. He has always stood behind his work and his dealings with me. He even warranty parts that I got from Wilkenson and Hall, for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don but I think he is Don’s brother, they used to be in business with each other, might be worthwhile to call Bobby. Just an idea.

Any help I can aid in please feel free to ask.

[X] Durland Productions
Kevin Ryniker, Cell (858) 336 9803
Phone (858) 693 6207, Fax (858) 693 6227
8766 Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126
www.durlandproductions.com



From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Westmicro
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
To: mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read

Please pass all this on to Don.
Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and he will make it right.
Reputation and doing the right thing is Everything in Business.
Dave Nuding
Western Micrographics & Imaging Systems
Houston / San Diego
858-722-5500
http://www.westernmicrographics.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Becker <mikebecker at cox.net>
To: 'Ed Mendez' <edducati at mac.com>; 'San Diego Panteras' <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read

Holy crap, that's terrible Ed.  So sorry to hear this.  I don't understand,

I've never heard a bad thing about Don.  I've also never had any work done

by him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for itself.  I

can't
 imagine what his reasoning is.  I don't have any kind of relationship

with him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him.  Maybe something just

got into him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in.  Maybe

he's got some other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point or

something like
 that.  Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good on it.

I would hold off on slinging mud until all options for reconciliation are

exhausted.

Hang in there,

Mike





-----Original Message-----

From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On

Behalf Of Ed Mendez

Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:39 PM

To: San Diego Panteras

Subject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read





Hi all,



Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagged but that is

nothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me before I left.



After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final invoiced

bill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the Pantera

Electronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera not

charging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera Electronics

however, it was from Don not following the simple directions and hooking

things up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out the

issues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out of my

shop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running either. He

verbally told me on the 22nd
 that it would be about $2000 more and he would

have it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails, the

seat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked me. He

said that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was leaving,

he wanted cash, and would not release the car until I
 paid him in full!



I have always paid him up front, and in advance. Since I was leaving the

country, he gave me no choice, I had to come up with cash. He delivered the

car to me, backed it out of his trailer still hooked to the cable, I then

paid him in full and he refused to unhook the car until I signed a waiver

releasing him of any work related defects!!!



He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!



Now the car is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in, the belts

were not done, seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he left my

brand new air compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car runs but

electrically a mess, far from being done, and far from being in a state of

condition for the money I paid him.



Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front of

whom? The new President of POCA!



Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I just wonder what I did, I was

utterly insulted. What did I do to deserve this? His wife told me Don was

mad because I did not let him finish the car!!!??? I paid him a total of

$42,000. He knew the drop dead date months before I was leaving. Even John Haas of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don did not call him once!!! I asked John Haas to call him.

At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can please

offer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state to ship

overseas.



Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all I have is

you guys to spread the word about what he did to me.



Kind regards,



Ed Mendez



Sent from my iPad


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