[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 116, Issue 6
FITZ
rfitzp2782 at aol.com
Thu Feb 6 14:56:27 EST 2014
i dont follow this alot but have heard bad things about this shop before :( sorry
35 grand someone would have a bloody nose
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at poca.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 6, 2014 2:01 pm
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 116, Issue 6
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Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera (Pantdino)
2. Re: Shifting (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
3. Re: Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
(audionut at hushmail.com)
4. Re: Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
(Bjoern Flesland)
5. Panteras in the shop (rcbsons1 at aol.com)
6. Re: Panteras in the shop (Brent Stewart)
7. Re: Panteras in the shop (rcbsons1 at aol.com)
8. Re: Panteras in the shop (Mike Thomas)
9. Re: Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
(bflesland at gmail.com)
10. Aluminium intake manifold treatment (bflesland at gmail.com)
11. Re: Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
(michael at michaelshortt.com)
12. Re: Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera (fastgrandma)
13. Re: Aluminium intake manifold treatment (doug351c)
14. Re: Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera (Pantdino)
15. Re: Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
(Charles McCall)
16. Re: Aluminium intake manifold treatment (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
17. Re: Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera (R.J)
18. UK vintage race Pantera video (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
19. Re: Aluminium intake manifold treatment (Andy May)
20. Re: Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
(michael at michaelshortt.com)
21. Re: Aluminium intake NOW Cyl head paint (Peter Menyhart)
22. Re: FLUIDYNE RADIATOR STORY (Sean Korb)
23. Re: NOW Cyl head paint (cengles at cox.net)
24. Re: Aluminium intake NOW Cyl head paint (Kirby Schrader)
25. Re: Aluminium intake manifold treatment (cengles at cox.net)
26. Re: NOW Cyl head paint (cengles at cox.net)
27. Re: Aluminium intake NOW Cyl head paint (Peter Menyhart)
28. Re: Aluminium intake NOW Cyl head paint (Kirby Schrader)
29. Screws for center console (Jim Gray)
30. Re: NOW Cyl head paint (Peter Menyhart)
31. Brian Hill's 410 cubic inch cast iron Cleveland on the dyno
(Daniel C Jones)
32. Re: Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
(Himes, Terry (397C))
33. Re: Brian Hill's 410 cubic inch cast iron Cleveland on the
dyno (Kirby Schrader)
34. Great pics of Gr3 car at Le Mans 1975.... (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
35. Re: UK vintage race Pantera video (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
36. Re: Screws for center console (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 14:07:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
To: edducati at mac.com, detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
Message-ID: <8D0F0BCB63B1FE8-1650-B8F8 at webmail-m239.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Ed,
Just to give us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the original
estimate of $36K? That's a significant amount of money.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,
You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you.
As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage he did to my
Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years! It is shameful
behaviour!
Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would rather you
did not. Don deserves no advertising.
Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more dollars out of me,
and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all warranty for work he completed.
Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to finish, and I
am out of a lot of cash.
I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends worldwide on
Facebook. I guess he will soon.
Ed
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Date: 4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT
To: Kevin Ryniker <durland at san.rr.com>, 'Westmicro' <westmicro at aol.com>,
"mikebecker at cox.net" <mikebecker at cox.net>, "edducati at mac.com"
<edducati at mac.com>, "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com" <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
Cc: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small, inexpensive
part for my car. His response was ?that?s all you want to buy?? to which I said
yes. He then sighed and reluctantly took my order. Upon receipt, the part was
a poorly reproduced version of the original part, the art work was off-center
and after attempting to ?fix? it myself, I threw it in the trash. So my only
experience with him was he was uninterested in my business and the product he
sold and represented me was shit. So no, I will not call him ever again because
to me, that behavior speaks to total lack of INTEGRITY AND ETHICS. I hope the
$12,000 you bought from him were better than my $25. part.
From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Kevin Ryniker
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
To: 'Westmicro'; mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
I Have to agree with Mike to the extent that there must be something else going
on. This sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a producer on a show
that got in over his head.
I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at least, never had a problem, I?ve easily
bought $12,000 worth of parts from him. He has always stood behind his work and
his dealings with me. He even warranty parts that I got from Wilkenson and Hall,
for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don but I think he is Don?s
brother, they used to be in business with each other, might be worthwhile to
call Bobby. Just an idea.
Any help I can aid in please feel free to ask.
Durland Productions
Kevin Ryniker, Cell (858) 336 9803
Phone (858) 693 6207, Fax (858) 693 6227
8766 Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126
www.durlandproductions.com
From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Westmicro
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
To: mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Please pass all this on to Don.
Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and he will make it
right.
Reputation and doing the right thing is Everything in Business.
Dave Nuding
Western Micrographics & Imaging Systems
Houston / San Diego
858-722-5500
http://www.westernmicrographics.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Becker <mikebecker at cox.net>
To: 'Ed Mendez' <edducati at mac.com>; 'San Diego Panteras' <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Holy crap, that's terrible Ed. So sorry to hear this. I don't understand,
I've never heard a bad thing about Don. I've also never had any work done
by him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for itself. I
can't imagine what his reasoning is. I don't have any kind of relationship
with him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him. Maybe something just
got into him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in. Maybe
he's got some other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point or
something like that. Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good on it.
I would hold off on slinging mud until all options for reconciliation are
exhausted.
Hang in there,
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ed Mendez
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:39 PM
To: San Diego Panteras
Subject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Hi all,
Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagged but that is
nothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me before I left.
After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final invoiced
bill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the Pantera
Electronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera not
charging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera Electronics
however, it was from Don not following the simple directions and hooking
things up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out the
issues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out of my
shop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running either. He
verbally told me on the 22nd that it would be about $2000 more and he would
have it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails, the
seat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked me. He
said that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was leaving,
he wanted cash, and would not release the car until I paid him in full!
I have always paid him up front, and in advance. Since I was leaving the
country, he gave me no choice, I had to come up with cash. He delivered the
car to me, backed it out of his trailer still hooked to the cable, I then
paid him in full and he refused to unhook the car until I signed a waiver
releasing him of any work related defects!!!
He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!
Now the car is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in, the belts
were not done, seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he left my
brand new air compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car runs but
electrically a mess, far from being done, and far from being in a state of
condition for the money I paid him.
Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front of
whom? The new President of POCA!
Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I just wonder what I did, I was
utterly insulted. What did I do to deserve this? His wife told me Don was
mad because I did not let him finish the car!!!??? I paid him a total of
$42,000. He knew the drop dead date months before I was leaving. Even John Haas
of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don did not call him once!!! I asked
John Haas to call him.
At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can please
offer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state to ship
overseas.
Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all I have is
you guys to spread the word about what he did to me.
Kind regards,
Ed Mendez
Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
eTomaso at poca.com
ttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 14:26:59 -0500 (EST)
From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
To: jb841 at cox.net, detomaso at poca.com
Cc: oldwheel at shaw.ca
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Shifting
Message-ID: <6c71c.28c64485.4023ea83 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In a message dated 2/4/14 20 04 36, jb841 at cox.net writes:
>
> Mike, Barry,
>
> I see my pic has surfaced again! ?Glad it?s getting some use. ?I?ve
> attached some more pics.
>
>
>>>Thanks JB--I couldn't remember where I had sourced that photo. Thanks
for sending more!
Mike
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 11:38:19 -0800
From: audionut at hushmail.com
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
Message-ID: <20140205193821.CA9BE60160 at smtp.hushmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Sad to hear stuff like this.
Don's shop did my A/C upgrade on time at a fair price around the year
2008. Hard to believe a respected, time-tested shop like this screwed
up but....
The shop is nearly always responsible for horror stories like this.
It is the responsibility of the shop to quote the job right, clearly,
in writing, and completethe job within a reasonable time, barring
circumstances beyond the shops' control. Misunderstandings should be
easily cleared up by the contract, if they are not,then the shop f'd
up.
If the job gets out of hand in some way and the customer gets upset,
then it is nothing but a petty, juvenile, bully attitude if the shop
then says "Hey if you don't like it, I got your car, I got your money
so, nyah nyah nyah. What are you gonna do about it?"
I can't see how Ed did anything wrong other than pay in full up front.
Always a bad idea.
Sent using Hushmail
On February 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, "Pantdino" wrote: Ed, Just to give
us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the original
estimate of $36K? That's a significant amount of money. Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Mendez
To: detomaso
Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,
You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you.
As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage
he did to my Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years!
It is shameful behaviour!
Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would
rather you did not. Don deserves no advertising.
Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more
dollars out of me, and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all
warranty for work he completed.
Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to
finish, and I am out of a lot of cash.
I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends
worldwide on Facebook. I guess he will soon.
Ed
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Patterson, Lee R."
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Date: 4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT
To: Kevin Ryniker , 'Westmicro' , "mikebecker at cox.net" ,
"edducati at mac.com" , "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com"
Cc: "Patterson, Lee R."
I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small,
inexpensive part for my car. His response was ?that?s all you
want to buy?? to which I said yes. He then sighed and reluctantly
took my order. Upon receipt, the part was a poorly reproduced version
of the original part, the art work was off-center and after attempting
to ?fix? it myself, I threw it in the trash. So my only
experience with him was he was uninterested in my business and the
product he sold and represented me was shit. So no, I will not call
him ever again because to me, that behavior speaks to total lack of
INTEGRITY AND ETHICS. I hope the $12,000 you bought from him were
better than my $25. part. From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
[mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Ryniker
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
To: 'Westmicro'; mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com;
sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read I Have to agree with
Mike to the extent that there must be something else going on. This
sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a producer on a show
that got in over his head. I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at
least, never had a problem, I?ve easily bought $12,000 worth of
parts from him. He has always stood behind his work and his dealings
with me. He even warranty parts that I got from Wilkenson and Hall,
for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don but I think he
is Don?s brother, they used to be in business with each other, might
be worthwhile to call Bobby. Just an idea. Any help I can aid in
please feel free to ask. Durland Productions Kevin Ryniker, Cell
(858) 336 9803 Phone (858) 693 6207, Fax (858) 693 6227 8766
Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126 www.durlandproductions.com
From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Westmicro
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
To: mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read Please pass all this on
to Don. Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and
he will make it right. Reputation and doing the right thing is
Everything in Business. _Dave Nuding_ _Western Micrographics &
Imaging Systems_ _Houston / San Diego_ _858-722-5500_
http://www.westernmicrographics.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Becker
To: 'Ed Mendez' ; 'San Diego Panteras'
Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Holy crap, that's terrible Ed. So sorry to hear this. I don't
understand,
I've never heard a bad thing about Don. I've also never had any work
done
by him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for
itself. I
can't imagine what his reasoning is. I don't have any kind of
relationship
with him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him. Maybe
something just
got into him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in.
Maybe
he's got some other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point or
something like that. Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good
on it.
I would hold off on slinging mud until all options for reconciliation
are
exhausted.
Hang in there,
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
[mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ed Mendez
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:39 PM
To: San Diego Panteras
Subject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Hi all,
Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagged but
that is
nothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me before I
left.
After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final
invoiced
bill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the Pantera
Electronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera
not
charging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera
Electronics
however, it was from Don not following the simple directions and
hooking
things up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out
the
issues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out
of my
shop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running
either. He
verbally told me on the 22nd that it would be about $2000 more and he
would
have it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails,
the
seat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked
me. He
said that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was
leaving,
he wanted cash, and would not release the car until I paid him in
full!
I have always paid him up front, and in advance. Since I was leaving
the
country, he gave me no choice, I had to come up with cash. He
delivered the
car to me, backed it out of his trailer still hooked to the cable, I
then
paid him in full and he refused to unhook the car until I signed a
waiver
releasing him of any work related defects!!!
He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!
Now the car is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in,
the belts
were not done, seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he
left my
brand new air compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car
runs but
electrically a mess, far from being done, and far from being in a
state of
condition for the money I paid him.
Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front
of
whom? The new President of POCA!
Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I just wonder what I did,
I was
utterly insulted. What did I do to deserve this? His wife told me Don
was
mad because I did not let him finish the car!!!??? I paid him a total
of
$42,000. He knew the drop dead date months before I was leaving. Even
John Haas of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don did not call him
once!!! I asked John Haas to call him.
At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can
please
offer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state
to ship
overseas.
Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all I
have is
you guys to spread the word about what he did to me.
Kind regards,
Ed Mendez
Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum
Managed by POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 21:00:41 +0100
From: Bjoern Flesland <bflesland at gmail.com>
To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
Message-ID:
<CACF3J0J5wkr389SDVifF1PnLx+EgAJKG4obz-EKAas-vYuj1cw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Sad story indeed. Hope it works out for you, Ed.
Wonder why the regulars here (i.e. heavy posters) don't post anything about
this...
Cheers Bjoern
On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 8:38 PM, <audionut at hushmail.com> wrote:
> Sad to hear stuff like this.
>
> Don's shop did my A/C upgrade on time at a fair price around the year
> 2008. Hard to believe a respected, time-tested shop like this screwed up
> but....
>
> The shop is nearly *always* responsible for horror stories like this. It
> is the responsibility of the shop to quote the job right, clearly,* in
> writing*, and complete
> the job within a reasonable time, barring circumstances beyond the shops'
> control. Misunderstandings should be easily cleared up by the contract, if
> they are not,
> then the shop f'd up.
>
> If the job gets out of hand in some way and the customer gets upset,
> then it is nothing but a petty, juvenile, bully attitude if the shop then
> says "Hey if you don't like it, I got your car, I got your money so, nyah
> nyah nyah. What are you gonna do about it?"
>
> I can't see how Ed did anything wrong other than pay in full up front.
> Always a bad idea.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent using Hushmail
>
>
> On February 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> Just to give us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the
> original estimate of $36K? That's a significant amount of money.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
>
> To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,
>
> You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you.
>
> As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage he
> did to my Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years! It is
> shameful behaviour!
>
> Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would
> rather you did not. Don deserves no advertising.
>
> Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more dollars
> out of me, and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all warranty for work
> he completed.
>
> Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to finish,
> and I am out of a lot of cash.
>
> I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends worldwide on
> Facebook. I guess he will soon.
>
> Ed
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *"Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
> *Subject: **RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read*
> *Date: *4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT
> *To: *Kevin Ryniker <durland at san.rr.com>, 'Westmicro' <westmicro at aol.com>,
> "mikebecker at cox.net" <mikebecker at cox.net>, "edducati at mac.com" <
> edducati at mac.com>, "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com" <
> sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
> *Cc: *"Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
>
> I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small,
> inexpensive part for my car. His response was "that's all you want to
> buy?" to which I said yes. He then sighed and reluctantly took my order.
> Upon receipt, the part was a poorly reproduced version of the original
> part, the art work was off-center and after attempting to "fix" it myself,
> I threw it in the trash. So my only experience with him was he was
> uninterested in my business and the product he sold and represented me was
> shit. So no, I will not call him ever again because to me, that behavior
> speaks to total lack of INTEGRITY AND ETHICS. I hope the $12,000 you
> bought from him were better than my $25. part.
>
> *From:* sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Kevin Ryniker
> *Sent:* Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
> *To:* 'Westmicro'; mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com;
> sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
> I Have to agree with Mike to the extent that there must be something else
> going on. This sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a producer
> on a show that got in over his head.
>
> I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at least, never had a problem, I've
> easily bought $12,000 worth of parts from him. He has always stood behind
> his work and his dealings with me. He even warranty parts that I got from
> Wilkenson and Hall, for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don
> but I think he is Don's brother, they used to be in business with each
> other, might be worthwhile to call Bobby. Just an idea.
>
> Any help I can aid in please feel free to ask.
>
> Durland Productions
> Kevin Ryniker, Cell (858) 336 9803
> Phone (858) 693 6207, Fax (858) 693 6227
> 8766 Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126
> www.durlandproductions.com
>
>
>
> *From:* sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Westmicro
> *Sent:* Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
> *To:* mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
> Please pass all this on to Don.
> Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and he will make
> it right.
> Reputation and doing the right thing is Everything in Business.
> *Dave Nuding*
> *Western Micrographics & Imaging Systems*
> *Houston / San Diego*
> *858-722-5500 <858-722-5500>*
> *http://www.westernmicrographics.com*
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Becker <mikebecker at cox.net>
> To: 'Ed Mendez' <edducati at mac.com>; 'San Diego Panteras' <
> sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
> Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
> Holy crap, that's terrible Ed. So sorry to hear this. I don't understand,
>
> I've never heard a bad thing about Don. I've also never had any work done
>
> by him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for itself. I
>
> can't imagine what his reasoning is. I don't have any kind of relationship
>
> with him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him. Maybe something just
>
> got into him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in. Maybe
>
> he's got some other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point or
>
> something like that. Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good on it.
>
> I would hold off on slinging mud until all options for reconciliation are
>
> exhausted.
>
> Hang in there,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
>
> Behalf Of Ed Mendez
>
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:39 PM
>
> To: San Diego Panteras
>
> Subject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagged but that is
>
> nothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me before I left.
>
>
>
> After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final invoiced
>
> bill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the Pantera
>
> Electronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera not
>
> charging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera Electronics
>
> however, it was from Don not following the simple directions and hooking
>
> things up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out the
>
> issues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out of my
>
> shop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running either. He
>
> verbally told me on the 22nd that it would be about $2000 more and he would
>
> have it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails, the
>
> seat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked me. He
>
> said that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was leaving,
>
> he wanted cash, and would not release the car until I paid him in full!
>
>
>
> I have always paid him up front, and in advance. Since I was leaving the
>
> country, he gave me no choice, I had to come up with cash. He delivered the
>
> car to me, backed it out of his trailer still hooked to the cable, I then
>
> paid him in full and he refused to unhook the car until I signed a waiver
>
> releasing him of any work related defects!!!
>
>
>
> He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!
>
>
>
> Now the car is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in, the belts
>
> were not done, seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he left my
>
> brand new air compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car runs but
>
> electrically a mess, far from being done, and far from being in a state of
>
> condition for the money I paid him.
>
>
>
> Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front of
>
> whom? The new President of POCA!
>
>
>
> Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I just wonder what I did, I was
>
> utterly insulted. What did I do to deserve this? His wife told me Don was
>
> mad because I did not let him finish the car!!!??? I paid him a total of
>
> $42,000. He knew the drop dead date months before I was leaving. Even John
Haas of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don did not call him once!!! I
asked John Haas to call him.
>
> At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can please
>
> offer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state to ship
>
> overseas.
>
>
>
> Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all I have is
>
> you guys to spread the word about what he did to me.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Ed Mendez
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing listDeTomaso at poca.comhttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 17:55:42 -0500 (EST)
From: rcbsons1 at aol.com
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Panteras in the shop
Message-ID: <8D0F0DC87CECA65-229C-CD80 at webmail-vm029.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
We just got another Pantera at the shop
as Mark McWhinney is moving in the back with
Rich and Brent.... counting that we have
four Panteras in the same place.. Looks
like Mark is going to get inspired and get
his running again.. Kinda like having new puppies:)
Bob Benson #3 Black Pantera
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 15:01:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Brent Stewart <bjbstewart at yahoo.com>
To: "rcbsons1 at aol.com" <rcbsons1 at aol.com>, "detomaso at poca.com"
<detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Panteras in the shop
Message-ID:
<1391641296.87341.YahooMailNeo at web140601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yeah, like getting the band back together too :-)
On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 2:56 PM, "rcbsons1 at aol.com" <rcbsons1 at aol.com>
wrote:
We just got another Pantera at the shop
as Mark McWhinney is moving in the back with
Rich and Brent.... counting that we have
four Panteras in the same place.. Looks
like Mark is going to get inspired and get
his running again.. Kinda like having new puppies:)
Bob Benson #3 Black Pantera
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 18:03:56 -0500 (EST)
From: rcbsons1 at aol.com
To: bjbstewart at yahoo.com, detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Panteras in the shop
Message-ID: <8D0F0DDAE284D0D-229C-CE4F at webmail-vm029.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Too bad we are all a bunch of old farts
-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Stewart <bjbstewart at yahoo.com>
To: rcbsons1 <rcbsons1 at aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 5, 2014 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Panteras in the shop
Yeah, like getting the band back together too :-)
On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 2:56 PM, "rcbsons1 at aol.com" <rcbsons1 at aol.com>
wrote:
We just got another Pantera at the shop
as Mark McWhinney is moving in the back with
Rich and Brent.... counting that we have
four Panteras in the same place.. Looks
like Mark is going to get inspired and get
his running again.. Kinda like having new puppies:)
Bob Benson #3 Black Pantera
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 17:50:07 -0800
From: "Mike Thomas" <mbefthomas at comcast.net>
To: "'Brent Stewart'" <bjbstewart at yahoo.com>, <rcbsons1 at aol.com>,
<detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Panteras in the shop
Message-ID: <011301cf22dd$c3618a20$4a249e60$@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
That would be the Cleveland Symphony, right, or perhaps the Octette . . . .
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Brent Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:02 PM
To: rcbsons1 at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Panteras in the shop
Yeah, like getting the band back together too :-)
On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 2:56 PM, "rcbsons1 at aol.com
<mailto:rcbsons1 at aol.com> " <rcbsons1 at aol.com <mailto:rcbsons1 at aol.com> >
wrote:
We just got another Pantera at the shop
as Mark McWhinney is moving in the back with
Rich and Brent.... counting that we have
four Panteras in the same place.. Looks
like Mark is going to get inspired and get
his running again.. Kinda like having new puppies:)
Bob Benson #3 Black Pantera
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com <mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com>
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 05:46:41 +0100
From: "bflesland at gmail.com" <bflesland at gmail.com>
To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
Message-ID: <BF7F5A4F-5E99-4018-B976-4F39A62A1901 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
So what's the best suggested approach of having major work done at a car
resto/body shop?
I am myself starting having a car restored/built and painted by a reputable shop
as well and want to avoid any future problems.
I understand paying upfront is a no-no.
I don't have a contract but everything to be done is in writing by email.
I am getting billed along the way as work progress.
Is a contract mandatory in case of future problems?
Hope I am not hijacking the thread here but this has happened before and will
again for somebody in the future, for sure!
I think bad communications and/or unrealistic expectations may be the cause
sometimes, together with poorly performed work, not done in a timely manner.
Once I had to retrieve a car from a shop due to the shop owner had personal
problems, long sad story...
The thing today with internet and everything, is that from someone you hear a
shop is very good and reputable.
But if you search them yourself on the web you find bad stories posted as well.
So not easy to pick the right shop.
Sorry for the long rant!
Cheers Bjoern
> Den 5. feb. 2014 kl. 20:38 skrev audionut at hushmail.com:
>
> Sad to hear stuff like this.
>
> Don's shop did my A/C upgrade on time at a fair price around the year 2008.
Hard to believe a respected, time-tested shop like this screwed up but....
>
> The shop is nearly always responsible for horror stories like this. It is the
responsibility of the shop to quote the job right, clearly, in writing, and
complete
> the job within a reasonable time, barring circumstances beyond the shops'
control. Misunderstandings should be easily cleared up by the contract, if they
are not,
> then the shop f'd up.
>
> If the job gets out of hand in some way and the customer gets upset, then it
is nothing but a petty, juvenile, bully attitude if the shop then says "Hey if
you don't like it, I got your car, I got your money so, nyah nyah nyah. What
are you gonna do about it?"
>
> I can't see how Ed did anything wrong other than pay in full up front. Always
a bad idea.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent using Hushmail
>
>
> On February 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
> Ed,
>
> Just to give us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the original
estimate of $36K? That's a significant amount of money.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
>
> To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,
>
> You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you.
>
> As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage he did to
my Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years! It is shameful
behaviour!
>
> Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would rather
you did not. Don deserves no advertising.
>
> Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more dollars out of
me, and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all warranty for work he
completed.
>
> Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to finish, and I
am out of a lot of cash.
>
> I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends worldwide on
Facebook. I guess he will soon.
>
> Ed
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
> Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
> Date: 4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT
> To: Kevin Ryniker <durland at san.rr.com>, 'Westmicro' <westmicro at aol.com>,
"mikebecker at cox.net" <mikebecker at cox.net>, "edducati at mac.com"
<edducati at mac.com>, "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com" <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
> Cc: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
>
> I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small, inexpensive
part for my car. His response was ?that?s all you want to buy?? to which I said
yes. He then sighed and reluctantly took my order. Upon receipt, the part was
a poorly reproduced version of the original part, the art work was off-center
and after attempting to ?fix? it myself, I threw it in the trash. So my only
experience with him was he was uninterested in my business and the product he
sold and represented me was shit. So no, I will not call him ever again because
to me, that behavior speaks to total lack of INTEGRITY AND ETHICS. I hope the
$12,000 you bought from him were better than my $25. part.
>
> From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Kevin Ryniker
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
> To: 'Westmicro'; mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
> I Have to agree with Mike to the extent that there must be something else
going on. This sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a producer on a
show that got in over his head.
>
> I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at least, never had a problem, I?ve easily
bought $12,000 worth of parts from him. He has always stood behind his work and
his dealings with me. He even warranty parts that I got from Wilkenson and Hall,
for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don but I think he is Don?s
brother, they used to be in business with each other, might be worthwhile to
call Bobby. Just an idea.
>
> Any help I can aid in please feel free to ask.
>
> Durland Productions
> Kevin Ryniker, Cell (858) 336 9803
> Phone (858) 693 6207, Fax (858) 693 6227
> 8766 Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126
> www.durlandproductions.com
>
>
>
> From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Westmicro
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
> To: mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
> Please pass all this on to Don.
> Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and he will make it
right.
> Reputation and doing the right thing is Everything in Business.
> Dave Nuding
> Western Micrographics & Imaging Systems
> Houston / San Diego
> 858-722-5500
> http://www.westernmicrographics.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Becker <mikebecker at cox.net>
> To: 'Ed Mendez' <edducati at mac.com>; 'San Diego Panteras' <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
> Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
> Holy crap, that's terrible Ed. So sorry to hear this. I don't understand,
> I've never heard a bad thing about Don. I've also never had any work done
> by him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for itself. I
> can't imagine what his reasoning is. I don't have any kind of relationship
> with him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him. Maybe something just
> got into him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in. Maybe
> he's got some other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point or
> something like that. Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good on it.
> I would hold off on slinging mud until all options for reconciliation are
> exhausted.
> Hang in there,
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Ed Mendez
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:39 PM
> To: San Diego Panteras
> Subject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagged but that is
> nothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me before I left.
>
> After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final invoiced
> bill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the Pantera
> Electronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera not
> charging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera Electronics
> however, it was from Don not following the simple directions and hooking
> things up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out the
> issues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out of my
> shop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running either. He
> verbally told me on the 22nd that it would be about $2000 more and he would
> have it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails, the
> seat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked me. He
> said that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was leaving,
> he wanted cash, and would not release the car until I paid him in full!
>
> I have always paid him up front, and in advance. Since I was leaving the
> country, he gave me no choice, I had to come up with cash. He delivered the
> car to me, backed it out of his trailer still hooked to the cable, I then
> paid him in full and he refused to unhook the car until I signed a waiver
> releasing him of any work related defects!!!
>
> He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!
>
> Now the car is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in, the belts
> were not done, seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he left my
> brand new air compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car runs but
> electrically a mess, far from being done, and far from being in a state of
> condition for the money I paid him.
>
> Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front of
> whom? The new President of POCA!
>
> Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I just wonder what I did, I was
> utterly insulted. What did I do to deserve this? His wife told me Don was
> mad because I did not let him finish the car!!!??? I paid him a total of
> $42,000. He knew the drop dead date months before I was leaving. Even John
Haas of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don did not call him once!!! I
asked John Haas to call him.
> At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can please
> offer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state to ship
> overseas.
>
> Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all I have is
> you guys to spread the word about what he did to me.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Ed Mendez
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 06:03:26 +0100
From: "bflesland at gmail.com" <bflesland at gmail.com>
To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Aluminium intake manifold treatment
Message-ID: <2EA19BA0-F525-464A-8CAF-81A62FA64289 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
What is the best way to refurbish an aluminium air intake manifold?
It has some dark stains due to age and yellowing because of previous fuel leaks.
Is media blasting a good solution?
What type of media?
Should it be clear coated or treated in any way afterwards to make the fresh
appearance last longer? Thanks!
Cheers Bjoern
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 00:10:07 -0500
From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
To: Bjoern Flesland <bflesland at gmail.com>
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
Message-ID:
<CAEWtxWpi1KZ3bw4it2sS8wzQ+gJt+zQrtZZSC75NGR39zBe8VA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
You will find emails are generally worthless in court if it comes to that.
I would have a written contact with each and every
Itemized task and quoted cost beside it.
I would have completion dates for each project as well.
It's only legal if you both sign it, a notary seal makes it all the better.
You should also have warranty terms and a stated policy of organization of
receipts.
Any items requiring additional hours or change orders should require a
signed addendum sheet.
No honest shop should object, it protects them as much as it does you.
Of course a written list and complete photographic inventory and condition
of the "before" car should help settle any issues with dents, scratches,
missing parts, etc.
Michael Shortt
Good fences make good neighbors, a solid restoration agreement will keep
your shop and you on good terms before, during and after your car has been
serviced.
On Feb 5, 2014 11:48 PM, "bflesland at gmail.com" <bflesland at gmail.com> wrote:
> So what's the best suggested approach of having major work done at a car
> resto/body shop?
> I am myself starting having a car restored/built and painted by a
> reputable shop as well and want to avoid any future problems.
>
> I understand paying upfront is a no-no.
> I don't have a contract but everything to be done is in writing by email.
> I am getting billed along the way as work progress.
>
> Is a contract mandatory in case of future problems?
>
> Hope I am not hijacking the thread here but this has happened before and
> will again for somebody in the future, for sure!
> I think bad communications and/or unrealistic expectations may be the
> cause sometimes, together with poorly performed work, not done in a timely
> manner.
> Once I had to retrieve a car from a shop due to the shop owner had
> personal problems, long sad story...
>
> The thing today with internet and everything, is that from someone you
> hear a shop is very good and reputable.
> But if you search them yourself on the web you find bad stories posted as
> well.
> So not easy to pick the right shop.
>
> Sorry for the long rant!
> Cheers Bjoern
>
>
> Den 5. feb. 2014 kl. 20:38 skrev audionut at hushmail.com:
>
> Sad to hear stuff like this.
>
> Don's shop did my A/C upgrade on time at a fair price around the year
> 2008. Hard to believe a respected, time-tested shop like this screwed up
> but....
>
> The shop is nearly *always* responsible for horror stories like this. It
> is the responsibility of the shop to quote the job right, clearly,* in
> writing*, and complete
> the job within a reasonable time, barring circumstances beyond the shops'
> control. Misunderstandings should be easily cleared up by the contract, if
> they are not,
> then the shop f'd up.
>
> If the job gets out of hand in some way and the customer gets upset,
> then it is nothing but a petty, juvenile, bully attitude if the shop then
> says "Hey if you don't like it, I got your car, I got your money so, nyah
> nyah nyah. What are you gonna do about it?"
>
> I can't see how Ed did anything wrong other than pay in full up front.
> Always a bad idea.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent using Hushmail
>
>
> On February 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> Just to give us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the
> original estimate of $36K? That's a significant amount of money.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
>
> To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,
>
> You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you.
>
> As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage he
> did to my Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years! It is
> shameful behaviour!
>
> Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would
> rather you did not. Don deserves no advertising.
>
> Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more dollars
> out of me, and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all warranty for work
> he completed.
>
> Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to finish,
> and I am out of a lot of cash.
>
> I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends worldwide on
> Facebook. I guess he will soon.
>
> Ed
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *"Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
> *Subject: **RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read*
> *Date: *4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT
> *To: *Kevin Ryniker <durland at san.rr.com>, 'Westmicro' <westmicro at aol.com>,
> "mikebecker at cox.net" <mikebecker at cox.net>, "edducati at mac.com" <
> edducati at mac.com>, "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com" <
> sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
> *Cc: *"Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
>
> I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small,
> inexpensive part for my car. His response was "that's all you want to
> buy?" to which I said yes. He then sighed and reluctantly took my order.
> Upon receipt, the part was a poorly reproduced version of the original
> part, the art work was off-center and after attempting to "fix" it myself,
> I threw it in the trash. So my only experience with him was he was
> uninterested in my business and the product he sold and represented me was
> shit. So no, I will not call him ever again because to me, that behavior
> speaks to total lack of INTEGRITY AND ETHICS. I hope the $12,000 you
> bought from him were better than my $25. part.
>
> *From:* sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Kevin Ryniker
> *Sent:* Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
> *To:* 'Westmicro'; mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com;
> sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
> I Have to agree with Mike to the extent that there must be something else
> going on. This sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a producer
> on a show that got in over his head.
>
> I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at least, never had a problem, I've
> easily bought $12,000 worth of parts from him. He has always stood behind
> his work and his dealings with me. He even warranty parts that I got from
> Wilkenson and Hall, for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don
> but I think he is Don's brother, they used to be in business with each
> other, might be worthwhile to call Bobby. Just an idea.
>
> Any help I can aid in please feel free to ask.
>
> Durland Productions
> Kevin Ryniker, Cell (858) 336 9803
> Phone (858) 693 6207, Fax (858) 693 6227
> 8766 Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126
> www.durlandproductions.com
>
>
>
> *From:* sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Westmicro
> *Sent:* Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
> *To:* mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
> Please pass all this on to Don.
> Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and he will make
> it right.
> Reputation and doing the right thing is Everything in Business.
> *Dave Nuding*
> *Western Micrographics & Imaging Systems*
> *Houston / San Diego*
> *858-722-5500 <858-722-5500>*
> *http://www.westernmicrographics.com*
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Becker <mikebecker at cox.net>
> To: 'Ed Mendez' <edducati at mac.com>; 'San Diego Panteras' <
> sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
> Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
> Holy crap, that's terrible Ed. So sorry to hear this. I don't understand,
>
> I've never heard a bad thing about Don. I've also never had any work done
>
> by him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for itself. I
>
> can't imagine what his reasoning is. I don't have any kind of relationship
>
> with him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him. Maybe something just
>
> got into him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in. Maybe
>
> he's got some other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point or
>
> something like that. Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good on it.
>
> I would hold off on slinging mud until all options for reconciliation are
>
> exhausted.
>
> Hang in there,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
>
> Behalf Of Ed Mendez
>
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:39 PM
>
> To: San Diego Panteras
>
> Subject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagged but that is
>
> nothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me before I left.
>
>
>
> After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final invoiced
>
> bill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the Pantera
>
> Electronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera not
>
> charging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera Electronics
>
> however, it was from Don not following the simple directions and hooking
>
> things up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out the
>
> issues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out of my
>
> shop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running either. He
>
> verbally told me on the 22nd that it would be about $2000 more and he would
>
> have it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails, the
>
> seat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked me. He
>
> said that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was leaving,
>
> he wanted cash, and would not release the car until I paid him in full!
>
>
>
> I have always paid him up front, and in advance. Since I was leaving the
>
> country, he gave me no choice, I had to come up with cash. He delivered the
>
> car to me, backed it out of his trailer still hooked to the cable, I then
>
> paid him in full and he refused to unhook the car until I signed a waiver
>
> releasing him of any work related defects!!!
>
>
>
> He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!
>
>
>
> Now the car is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in, the belts
>
> were not done, seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he left my
>
> brand new air compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car runs but
>
> electrically a mess, far from being done, and far from being in a state of
>
> condition for the money I paid him.
>
>
>
> Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front of
>
> whom? The new President of POCA!
>
>
>
> Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I just wonder what I did, I was
>
> utterly insulted. What did I do to deserve this? His wife told me Don was
>
> mad because I did not let him finish the car!!!??? I paid him a total of
>
> $42,000. He knew the drop dead date months before I was leaving. Even John
Haas of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don did not call him once!!! I
asked John Haas to call him.
>
> At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can please
>
> offer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state to ship
>
> overseas.
>
>
>
> Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all I have is
>
> you guys to spread the word about what he did to me.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Ed Mendez
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing listDeTomaso at poca.comhttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 00:20:38 -0500 (EST)
From: fastgrandma <fastgrandma at aol.com>
To: bflesland at gmail.com, detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
Message-ID: <8D0F1124E032DA2-285C-EEC0 at webmail-m269.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
From hearing stories - not that I pay total attention to this factor of our car
- but one does stick out in my mind. ?The owner decided he wanted various things
done to his car which he was told could be done. ?He had car delivered to vendor
- no, I'm not mentioning names of either party here - and said do it. ?From what
we were told by him not all prices were discussed altho here I'm not completely
sure. ?Therefore when said vendor called and said car is ready to be picked up
and named an astronomical sum, our friend about had a stroke. ?He then sat down
with the vendor and went over the bill item by item. ?Some things shouldn't have
been charged but were and they did work it out but end result was he spent a lot
more $$ than he'd planned to and one needs to know these costs beforehand.
Also, with having been in the club nearly 34 years, I think it can pretty much
be said no vendor is 100% trustworthy; they're looking to make a profit.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: bflesland <bflesland at gmail.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 5, 2014 8:48 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
So what's the best suggested approach of having major work done at a car
resto/body shop?
I am myself starting having a car restored/built and painted by a reputable shop
as well and want to avoid any future problems.
I understand paying upfront is a no-no.?
I don't have a contract but everything to be done is in writing by email.
I am getting billed along the way as work progress.
Is a contract mandatory in case of future problems?
Hope I am not hijacking the thread here but this has happened before and will
again for somebody in the future, for sure!?
I think bad communications and/or unrealistic expectations may be the cause
sometimes, together with poorly performed work, not done in a timely manner.?
Once I had to retrieve a car from a shop due to the shop owner had personal
problems, long sad story...
The thing today with internet and everything, is that from someone you hear a
shop is very good and reputable.?
But if you search them yourself on the web you find bad stories posted as well.
So not easy to pick the right shop.?
Sorry for the long rant!
Cheers Bjoern
Den 5. feb. 2014 kl. 20:38 skrev audionut at hushmail.com:
Sad to hear stuff like this.
Don's shop did my A/C upgrade on time at a fair price around the year 2008.
?Hard to believe a respected, time-tested shop like this screwed up but....
The shop is nearly always responsible for horror stories like this. ?It is the
responsibility of the shop to quote the job right, clearly, in writing, and
complete
the job within a reasonable time, barring circumstances beyond the shops'
control. ?Misunderstandings should be easily cleared up by the contract, if they
are not,
then the shop f'd up. ?
If the job gets out of hand in some way and the customer gets upset, then?it is
nothing but a petty, juvenile, bully attitude if the shop then says "Hey if you
don't like it, I got your car, I got your money so, nyah nyah nyah. ?What are
you gonna do about it?"?
I can't see how Ed did anything wrong other than pay in full up front. ?Always a
bad idea.
Sent using Hushmail
On February 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote: Ed,
?
Just to give us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the original
estimate of $36K?? That's a significant amount of money.
?
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,
You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you.?
As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage he did to
my Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years! It is shameful
behaviour!
Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would rather
you did not. Don deserves no advertising.
Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more dollars out of
me, and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all warranty for work he
completed.
Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to finish, and
I am out of a lot of cash.
I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends worldwide on
Facebook. I guess he will soon.
Ed
Begin forwarded message:
From:?"Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
Subject:?RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Date:?4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT
To:?Kevin Ryniker <durland at san.rr.com>, 'Westmicro'
<westmicro at aol.com>, "mikebecker at cox.net" <mikebecker at cox.net>,
"edducati at mac.com" <edducati at mac.com>, "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com"
<sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
Cc:?"Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small,
inexpensive part for my car.? His response was ?that?s all you want to buy?? to
which I said yes.? He then sighed and reluctantly took my order.? Upon receipt,
the part was a poorly reproduced version of the original part, the art work was
off-center and after attempting to ?fix? it myself, I threw it in the trash.? So
my only experience with him was he was uninterested in my business and the
product he sold and represented me was shit.? So no, I will not call him ever
again because to me, that behavior speaks to total lack of INTEGRITY AND
ETHICS.? I hope the $12,000 you bought from him were better than my $25. part.
?
From:?sdpanteras at googlegroups.com?[mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com]?On
Behalf Of?Kevin Ryniker
Sent:?Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
To:?'Westmicro';?mikebecker at cox.net;?edducati at mac.com;?sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject:?RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
?
I Have to agree with Mike to the extent that there must be something else
going on. This sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a producer on a
show that got in over his head.
?
I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at least, never had a problem, I?ve easily
bought $12,000 worth of parts from him. He has always stood behind his work and
his dealings with me. He even warranty parts that I got from Wilkenson and Hall,
for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don but I think he is Don?s
brother, they used to be in business with each other, might be worthwhile to
call Bobby. Just an idea.
?
Any help I can aid in please feel free to ask.
?
?Durland Productions
Kevin Ryniker, Cell (858) 336 9803
Phone (858) 693 6207, Fax (858) 693 6227
8766 Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126
www.durlandproductions.com
?
?
?
From:?sdpanteras at googlegroups.com?[mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com]?On
Behalf Of?Westmicro
Sent:?Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
To:?mikebecker at cox.net;?edducati at mac.com;?sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject:?Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
?
Please pass all this on to Don.
Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and he will make it
right.
Reputation and doing the right thing is Everything in Business.
Dave Nuding
Western Micrographics & Imaging Systems
Houston / San Diego
858-722-5500
http://www.westernmicrographics.com
?
?
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Becker <mikebecker at cox.net>
To: 'Ed Mendez' <edducati at mac.com>; 'San Diego Panteras'
<sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Holy crap, that's terrible Ed.? So sorry to hear this.? I don't
understand,I've never heard a bad thing about Don.? I've also never had any work
doneby him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for itself.?
Ican't imagine what his reasoning is.? I don't have any kind of relationshipwith
him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him.? Maybe something justgot into
him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in.? Maybehe's got some
other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point orsomething like that.?
Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good on it.I would hold off on
slinging mud until all options for reconciliation areexhausted. Hang in there,
Mike??-----Original Message-----From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
[mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] OnBehalf Of Ed MendezSent: Monday, February
03, 2014 4:39 PMTo: San Diego PanterasSubject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read??Hi
all,?Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagge
d but that isnothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me
before I left.?After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final
invoicedbill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the
PanteraElectronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera
notcharging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera
Electronicshowever, it was from Don not following the simple directions and
hookingthings up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out
theissues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out of
myshop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running either.
Heverbally told me on the 22nd that it would be about $2000 more and he
wouldhave it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails,
theseat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked me.
Hesaid that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was leaving,he
wanted cash, and would
not release the car until I paid him in full! ?I have always paid him up
front, and in advance. Since I was leaving thecountry, he gave me no choice, I
had to come up with cash. He delivered thecar to me, backed it out of his
trailer still hooked to the cable, I thenpaid him in full and he refused to
unhook the car until I signed a waiverreleasing him of any work related
defects!!!?He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!?Now the car
is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in, the beltswere not done,
seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he left mybrand new air
compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car runs butelectrically a mess,
far from being done, and far from being in a state ofcondition for the money I
paid him.?Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front
ofwhom? The new President of POCA!?Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I
just wonder what I did, I wasutterly insulted. What did I do
to deserve this? His wife told me Don wasmad because I did not let him finish
the car!!!??? I paid him a total of$42,000. He knew the drop dead date months
before I was leaving. Even John Haas of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don
did not call him once!!! I asked John Haas to call him.
At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can
pleaseoffer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state to
shipoverseas. ?Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all
I have isyou guys to spread the word about what he did to me.
?Kind regards,?Ed Mendez?Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed by
POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed by
POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 22:13:37 -0800
From: "doug351c" <doug351c at gmail.com>
To: <bflesland at gmail.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aluminium intake manifold treatment
Message-ID: <NGBBJDKLOLBENCGCLNBFEEMNPCAA.doug351c at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
For aluminum castings, I like to degrease them with Braklean aerosol
de-greaser then glass bead blast, followed by a spray coat of VHT Nu-Cast
spray paint. The paint gives it a very uinform appearance and seals the
porosity of the cast surface so that once it's put into use, any grease and
oil can be wiped up.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/vht-sp995?seid=srese1&gclid=CMbIgM3rtrwCFR
SUfgodTToAyg
Doug Braun
blue 73L #5505
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com]On Behalf Of
bflesland at gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 9:03 PM
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Aluminium intake manifold treatment
What is the best way to refurbish an aluminium air intake manifold?
It has some dark stains due to age and yellowing because of previous fuel
leaks.
Is media blasting a good solution?
What type of media?
Should it be clear coated or treated in any way afterwards to make the fresh
appearance last longer? Thanks!
Cheers Bjoern
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 01:19:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
To: michael at michaelshortt.com, bflesland at gmail.com
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
Message-ID: <8D0F11A7F28996D-16FC-E9F3 at webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
You will find emails are generally worthless in court if it comes to that.
I'm not a lawyer but if the shop had email responses from the customer
confirming "yes, I want XXX done at YYY price" I would think it would protect
them against charges that they had done work without permission. (Not that this
applies here-- I just find it hard to believe that emails are meaningless in
court-- certainly better than "he told me verbally.")
In California the shop has to give you a written estimate and document that they
called you on certain dates to confirm that you agree to any further work. My
understanding is that if they do stuff you don't approve you don't have to pay
for it-- the shop has to eat it.
Do you have the original estimate and itemization of things beyond that you
agreed to?
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: michael <michael at michaelshortt.com>
To: Bjoern Flesland <bflesland at gmail.com>
Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 5, 2014 9:11 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
You will find emails are generally worthless in court if it comes to that.
I would have a written contact with each and every
Itemized task and quoted cost beside it.
I would have completion dates for each project as well.
It's only legal if you both sign it, a notary seal makes it all the better.
You should also have warranty terms and a stated policy of organization of
receipts.
Any items requiring additional hours or change orders should require a signed
addendum sheet.
No honest shop should object, it protects them as much as it does you.
Of course a written list and complete photographic inventory and condition of
the "before" car should help settle any issues with dents, scratches, missing
parts, etc.
Michael Shortt
Good fences make good neighbors, a solid restoration agreement will keep your
shop and you on good terms before, during and after your car has been serviced.
On Feb 5, 2014 11:48 PM, "bflesland at gmail.com" <bflesland at gmail.com> wrote:
So what's the best suggested approach of having major work done at a car
resto/body shop?
I am myself starting having a car restored/built and painted by a reputable shop
as well and want to avoid any future problems.
I understand paying upfront is a no-no.
I don't have a contract but everything to be done is in writing by email.
I am getting billed along the way as work progress.
Is a contract mandatory in case of future problems?
Hope I am not hijacking the thread here but this has happened before and will
again for somebody in the future, for sure!
I think bad communications and/or unrealistic expectations may be the cause
sometimes, together with poorly performed work, not done in a timely manner.
Once I had to retrieve a car from a shop due to the shop owner had personal
problems, long sad story...
The thing today with internet and everything, is that from someone you hear a
shop is very good and reputable.
But if you search them yourself on the web you find bad stories posted as well.
So not easy to pick the right shop.
Sorry for the long rant!
Cheers Bjoern
Den 5. feb. 2014 kl. 20:38 skrev audionut at hushmail.com:
Sad to hear stuff like this.
Don's shop did my A/C upgrade on time at a fair price around the year 2008.
Hard to believe a respected, time-tested shop like this screwed up but....
The shop is nearly always responsible for horror stories like this. It is the
responsibility of the shop to quote the job right, clearly, in writing, and
complete
the job within a reasonable time, barring circumstances beyond the shops'
control. Misunderstandings should be easily cleared up by the contract, if they
are not,
then the shop f'd up.
If the job gets out of hand in some way and the customer gets upset, then it is
nothing but a petty, juvenile, bully attitude if the shop then says "Hey if you
don't like it, I got your car, I got your money so, nyah nyah nyah. What are
you gonna do about it?"
I can't see how Ed did anything wrong other than pay in full up front. Always a
bad idea.
Sent using Hushmail
On February 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
Ed,
Just to give us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the original
estimate of $36K? That's a significant amount of money.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,
You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you.
As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage he did to my
Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years! It is shameful
behaviour!
Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would rather you
did not. Don deserves no advertising.
Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more dollars out of me,
and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all warranty for work he completed.
Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to finish, and I
am out of a lot of cash.
I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends worldwide on
Facebook. I guess he will soon.
Ed
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Date: 4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT
To: Kevin Ryniker <durland at san.rr.com>, 'Westmicro' <westmicro at aol.com>,
"mikebecker at cox.net" <mikebecker at cox.net>, "edducati at mac.com"
<edducati at mac.com>, "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com" <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
Cc: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small, inexpensive
part for my car. His response was ?that?s all you want to buy?? to which I said
yes. He then sighed and reluctantly took my order. Upon receipt, the part was
a poorly reproduced version of the original part, the art work was off-center
and after attempting to ?fix? it myself, I threw it in the trash. So my only
experience with him was he was uninterested in my business and the product he
sold and represented me was shit. So no, I will not call him ever again because
to me, that behavior speaks to total lack of INTEGRITY AND ETHICS. I hope the
$12,000 you bought from him were better than my $25. part.
From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Kevin Ryniker
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
To: 'Westmicro'; mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
I Have to agree with Mike to the extent that there must be something else going
on. This sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a producer on a show
that got in over his head.
I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at least, never had a problem, I?ve easily
bought $12,000 worth of parts from him. He has always stood behind his work and
his dealings with me. He even warranty parts that I got from Wilkenson and Hall,
for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don but I think he is Don?s
brother, they used to be in business with each other, might be worthwhile to
call Bobby. Just an idea.
Any help I can aid in please feel free to ask.
Durland Productions
Kevin Ryniker, Cell (858) 336 9803
Phone (858) 693 6207, Fax (858) 693 6227
8766 Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126
www.durlandproductions.com
From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Westmicro
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
To: mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Please pass all this on to Don.
Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and he will make it
right.
Reputation and doing the right thing is Everything in Business.
Dave Nuding
Western Micrographics & Imaging Systems
Houston / San Diego
858-722-5500
http://www.westernmicrographics.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Becker <mikebecker at cox.net>
To: 'Ed Mendez' <edducati at mac.com>; 'San Diego Panteras' <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Holy crap, that's terrible Ed. So sorry to hear this. I don't understand,
I've never heard a bad thing about Don. I've also never had any work done
by him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for itself. I
can't imagine what his reasoning is. I don't have any kind of relationship
with him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him. Maybe something just
got into him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in. Maybe
he's got some other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point or
something like that. Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good on it.
I would hold off on slinging mud until all options for reconciliation are
exhausted.
Hang in there,
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ed Mendez
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:39 PM
To: San Diego Panteras
Subject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Hi all,
Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagged but that is
nothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me before I left.
After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final invoiced
bill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the Pantera
Electronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera not
charging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera Electronics
however, it was from Don not following the simple directions and hooking
things up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out the
issues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out of my
shop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running either. He
verbally told me on the 22nd that it would be about $2000 more and he would
have it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails, the
seat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked me. He
said that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was leaving,
he wanted cash, and would not release the car until I paid him in full!
I have always paid him up front, and in advance. Since I was leaving the
country, he gave me no choice, I had to come up with cash. He delivered the
car to me, backed it out of his trailer still hooked to the cable, I then
paid him in full and he refused to unhook the car until I signed a waiver
releasing him of any work related defects!!!
He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!
Now the car is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in, the belts
were not done, seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he left my
brand new air compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car runs but
electrically a mess, far from being done, and far from being in a state of
condition for the money I paid him.
Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front of
whom? The new President of POCA!
Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I just wonder what I did, I was
utterly insulted. What did I do to deserve this? His wife told me Don was
mad because I did not let him finish the car!!!??? I paid him a total of
$42,000. He knew the drop dead date months before I was leaving. Even John Haas
of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don did not call him once!!! I asked
John Haas to call him.
At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can please
offer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state to ship
overseas.
Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all I have is
you guys to spread the word about what he did to me.
Kind regards,
Ed Mendez
Sent from my iPad
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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 08:46:47 +0100
From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
To: "bflesland at gmail.com" <bflesland at gmail.com>
Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
Message-ID:
<CAGtehtdbJ5w0KkcwR=5ghepieaFhk52XhzO+Ui2P3N7uReotiw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bjoern - the only advice I would add based on a bitter experience is to
agree on what to do in case "surprises" are found during the repair process
that were not expected.
In the mid 90's, I left my '72 Pantera with a reputable shop and went to
work in France. The engine ate an intake valve the week before I left
(stock 2-piece valves), and they were supposed to just re-build the engine
to a fairly basic level.
Along the way they discovered other things. Most of them really needed to
be done and it wouldn't make sense to not do it since the car was partially
disassembled. I would have agreed to many of them had I been asked. Some of
them I would have probably preferred to wait, based on the size of the bill
that I was accumulating. But I wasn't given the choice.
I flew back to pick up my car, and instead of $3-4k for a b?sic engine
rebuild, I had a $13,000 bill. The vendor admitted that the bill got kind
of out of hand, but all the work was in fact done and done well - I just
probably would have skipped some of the less important things. The shop was
honest in that they didn't invent work or overcharge me for what they did,
but they fixed whatever they found along the way and that got expensive.
If they begin working on the car and find more things that really ought to
be fixed while they have the car apart, then there should be a clear and
written explanation and estimate before proceeding.
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 5:46 AM, bflesland at gmail.com <bflesland at gmail.com>wrote:
> So what's the best suggested approach of having major work done at a car
> resto/body shop?
> I am myself starting having a car restored/built and painted by a
> reputable shop as well and want to avoid any future problems.
>
> I understand paying upfront is a no-no.
> I don't have a contract but everything to be done is in writing by email.
> I am getting billed along the way as work progress.
>
> Is a contract mandatory in case of future problems?
>
> Hope I am not hijacking the thread here but this has happened before and
> will again for somebody in the future, for sure!
> I think bad communications and/or unrealistic expectations may be the
> cause sometimes, together with poorly performed work, not done in a timely
> manner.
> Once I had to retrieve a car from a shop due to the shop owner had
> personal problems, long sad story...
>
> The thing today with internet and everything, is that from someone you
> hear a shop is very good and reputable.
> But if you search them yourself on the web you find bad stories posted as
> well.
> So not easy to pick the right shop.
>
> Sorry for the long rant!
> Cheers Bjoern
>
>
> Den 5. feb. 2014 kl. 20:38 skrev audionut at hushmail.com:
>
> Sad to hear stuff like this.
>
> Don's shop did my A/C upgrade on time at a fair price around the year
> 2008. Hard to believe a respected, time-tested shop like this screwed up
> but....
>
> The shop is nearly *always* responsible for horror stories like this. It
> is the responsibility of the shop to quote the job right, clearly,* in
> writing*, and complete
> the job within a reasonable time, barring circumstances beyond the shops'
> control. Misunderstandings should be easily cleared up by the contract, if
> they are not,
> then the shop f'd up.
>
> If the job gets out of hand in some way and the customer gets upset,
> then it is nothing but a petty, juvenile, bully attitude if the shop then
> says "Hey if you don't like it, I got your car, I got your money so, nyah
> nyah nyah. What are you gonna do about it?"
>
> I can't see how Ed did anything wrong other than pay in full up front.
> Always a bad idea.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent using Hushmail
>
>
> On February 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> Just to give us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the
> original estimate of $36K? That's a significant amount of money.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
>
> To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,
>
> You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you.
>
> As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage he
> did to my Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years! It is
> shameful behaviour!
>
> Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would
> rather you did not. Don deserves no advertising.
>
> Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more dollars
> out of me, and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all warranty for work
> he completed.
>
> Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to finish,
> and I am out of a lot of cash.
>
> I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends worldwide on
> Facebook. I guess he will soon.
>
> Ed
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *"Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
> *Subject: **RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read*
> *Date: *4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT
> *To: *Kevin Ryniker <durland at san.rr.com>, 'Westmicro' <westmicro at aol.com>,
> "mikebecker at cox.net" <mikebecker at cox.net>, "edducati at mac.com" <
> edducati at mac.com>, "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com" <
> sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
> *Cc: *"Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
>
> I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small,
> inexpensive part for my car. His response was "that's all you want to
> buy?" to which I said yes. He then sighed and reluctantly took my order.
> Upon receipt, the part was a poorly reproduced version of the original
> part, the art work was off-center and after attempting to "fix" it myself,
> I threw it in the trash. So my only experience with him was he was
> uninterested in my business and the product he sold and represented me was
> shit. So no, I will not call him ever again because to me, that behavior
> speaks to total lack of INTEGRITY AND ETHICS. I hope the $12,000 you
> bought from him were better than my $25. part.
>
> *From:* sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Kevin Ryniker
> *Sent:* Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
> *To:* 'Westmicro'; mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com;
> sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
> I Have to agree with Mike to the extent that there must be something else
> going on. This sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a producer
> on a show that got in over his head.
>
> I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at least, never had a problem, I've
> easily bought $12,000 worth of parts from him. He has always stood behind
> his work and his dealings with me. He even warranty parts that I got from
> Wilkenson and Hall, for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don
> but I think he is Don's brother, they used to be in business with each
> other, might be worthwhile to call Bobby. Just an idea.
>
> Any help I can aid in please feel free to ask.
>
> Durland Productions
> Kevin Ryniker, Cell (858) 336 9803
> Phone (858) 693 6207, Fax (858) 693 6227
> 8766 Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126
> www.durlandproductions.com
>
>
>
> *From:* sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Westmicro
> *Sent:* Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
> *To:* mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
> Please pass all this on to Don.
> Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and he will make
> it right.
> Reputation and doing the right thing is Everything in Business.
> *Dave Nuding*
> *Western Micrographics & Imaging Systems*
> *Houston / San Diego*
> *858-722-5500 <858-722-5500>*
> *http://www.westernmicrographics.com*
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Becker <mikebecker at cox.net>
> To: 'Ed Mendez' <edducati at mac.com>; 'San Diego Panteras' <
> sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
> Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
> Holy crap, that's terrible Ed. So sorry to hear this. I don't understand,
>
> I've never heard a bad thing about Don. I've also never had any work done
>
> by him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for itself. I
>
> can't imagine what his reasoning is. I don't have any kind of relationship
>
> with him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him. Maybe something just
>
> got into him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in. Maybe
>
> he's got some other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point or
>
> something like that. Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good on it.
>
> I would hold off on slinging mud until all options for reconciliation are
>
> exhausted.
>
> Hang in there,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
>
> Behalf Of Ed Mendez
>
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:39 PM
>
> To: San Diego Panteras
>
> Subject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagged but that is
>
> nothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me before I left.
>
>
>
> After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final invoiced
>
> bill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the Pantera
>
> Electronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera not
>
> charging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera Electronics
>
> however, it was from Don not following the simple directions and hooking
>
> things up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out the
>
> issues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out of my
>
> shop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running either. He
>
> verbally told me on the 22nd that it would be about $2000 more and he would
>
> have it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails, the
>
> seat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked me. He
>
> said that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was leaving,
>
> he wanted cash, and would not release the car until I paid him in full!
>
>
>
> I have always paid him up front, and in advance. Since I was leaving the
>
> country, he gave me no choice, I had to come up with cash. He delivered the
>
> car to me, backed it out of his trailer still hooked to the cable, I then
>
> paid him in full and he refused to unhook the car until I signed a waiver
>
> releasing him of any work related defects!!!
>
>
>
> He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!
>
>
>
> Now the car is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in, the belts
>
> were not done, seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he left my
>
> brand new air compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car runs but
>
> electrically a mess, far from being done, and far from being in a state of
>
> condition for the money I paid him.
>
>
>
> Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front of
>
> whom? The new President of POCA!
>
>
>
> Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I just wonder what I did, I was
>
> utterly insulted. What did I do to deserve this? His wife told me Don was
>
> mad because I did not let him finish the car!!!??? I paid him a total of
>
> $42,000. He knew the drop dead date months before I was leaving. Even John
Haas of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don did not call him once!!! I
asked John Haas to call him.
>
> At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can please
>
> offer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state to ship
>
> overseas.
>
>
>
> Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all I have is
>
> you guys to spread the word about what he did to me.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Ed Mendez
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing listDeTomaso at poca.comhttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 04:27:54 -0500 (EST)
From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
To: bflesland at gmail.com, detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aluminium intake manifold treatment
Message-ID: <13715.1dd35116.4024af9f at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In a message dated 2/5/14 21 04 52, bflesland at gmail.com writes:
> What is the best way to refurbish an aluminium air intake manifold?
> It has some dark stains due to age and yellowing because of previous fuel
> leaks.
> Is media blasting a good solution?
> What type of media?
> Should it be clear coated or treated in any way afterwards to make the
> fresh appearance last longer? Thanks!
>
>>>I would presume a ZF case and an intake manifold would both respond the
same. When I was at Lloyd Butfoy's shop helping to rebuild my spare ZF, he
had be blast the cases with a light abrasive compound (it wasn't sand, it
was a slightly abrasive media, maybe walnut shells?). He sprayed the whole
thing down with a very liberal coating of WD40 and then wiped it down. He
said the WD40 fills the pores, gives it a very nice finish, and makes it
very easy to clean if it gets greasy. Just wipe it down, and if you use an
aggressive cleaner (a degreaser for instance), when you're done you just shoot
it with WD40 again.
Mike
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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 10:52:44 +0100
From: R.J <willibillie at live.de>
To: fastgrandma <fastgrandma at aol.com>
Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP397803D3FE6DD82F1427004B3940 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
So Judy, your bottom line is, only a vendor, that is not looking for profit, is
trustworthy. Now i know why the most vendors are totally fedup with the Pantera
folks.
> Am 06.02.2014 um 06:20 schrieb fastgrandma <fastgrandma at aol.com>:
>
> From hearing stories - not that I pay total attention to this factor of our
car - but one does stick out in my mind. The owner decided he wanted various
things done to his car which he was told could be done. He had car delivered to
vendor - no, I'm not mentioning names of either party here - and said do it.
>From what we were told by him not all prices were discussed altho here I'm not
completely sure. Therefore when said vendor called and said car is ready to be
picked up and named an astronomical sum, our friend about had a stroke. He then
sat down with the vendor and went over the bill item by item. Some things
shouldn't have been charged but were and they did work it out but end result was
he spent a lot more $$ than he'd planned to and one needs to know these costs
beforehand.
>
> Also, with having been in the club nearly 34 years, I think it can pretty much
be said no vendor is 100% trustworthy; they're looking to make a profit.
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bflesland <bflesland at gmail.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Wed, Feb 5, 2014 8:48 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
>
> So what's the best suggested approach of having major work done at a car
resto/body shop?
> I am myself starting having a car restored/built and painted by a reputable
shop as well and want to avoid any future problems.
>
> I understand paying upfront is a no-no.
> I don't have a contract but everything to be done is in writing by email.
> I am getting billed along the way as work progress.
>
> Is a contract mandatory in case of future problems?
>
> Hope I am not hijacking the thread here but this has happened before and will
again for somebody in the future, for sure!
> I think bad communications and/or unrealistic expectations may be the cause
sometimes, together with poorly performed work, not done in a timely manner.
> Once I had to retrieve a car from a shop due to the shop owner had personal
problems, long sad story...
>
> The thing today with internet and everything, is that from someone you hear a
shop is very good and reputable.
> But if you search them yourself on the web you find bad stories posted as
well.
> So not easy to pick the right shop.
>
> Sorry for the long rant!
> Cheers Bjoern
>
>
> Den 5. feb. 2014 kl. 20:38 skrev audionut at hushmail.com:
>
>> Sad to hear stuff like this.
>>
>> Don's shop did my A/C upgrade on time at a fair price around the year 2008.
Hard to believe a respected, time-tested shop like this screwed up but....
>>
>> The shop is nearly always responsible for horror stories like this. It is
the responsibility of the shop to quote the job right, clearly, in writing, and
complete
>> the job within a reasonable time, barring circumstances beyond the shops'
control. Misunderstandings should be easily cleared up by the contract, if they
are not,
>> then the shop f'd up.
>>
>> If the job gets out of hand in some way and the customer gets upset, then it
is nothing but a petty, juvenile, bully attitude if the shop then says "Hey if
you don't like it, I got your car, I got your money so, nyah nyah nyah. What
are you gonna do about it?"
>>
>> I can't see how Ed did anything wrong other than pay in full up front.
Always a bad idea.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent using Hushmail
>>
>>
>> On February 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
>> Ed,
>>
>> Just to give us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the original
estimate of $36K? That's a significant amount of money.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
>> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
>> Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
>>
>> To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,
>>
>> You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you.
>>
>> As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage he did to
my Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years! It is shameful
behaviour!
>>
>> Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would rather
you did not. Don deserves no advertising.
>>
>> Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more dollars out of
me, and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all warranty for work he
completed.
>>
>> Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to finish, and
I am out of a lot of cash.
>>
>> I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends worldwide on
Facebook. I guess he will soon.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> From: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
>> Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>> Date: 4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT
>> To: Kevin Ryniker <durland at san.rr.com>, 'Westmicro' <westmicro at aol.com>,
"mikebecker at cox.net" <mikebecker at cox.net>, "edducati at mac.com"
<edducati at mac.com>, "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com" <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
>> Cc: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
>>
>> I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small, inexpensive
part for my car. His response was ?that?s all you want to buy?? to which I said
yes. He then sighed and reluctantly took my order. Upon receipt, the part was
a poorly reproduced version of the original part, the art work was off-center
and after attempting to ?fix? it myself, I threw it in the trash. So my only
experience with him was he was uninterested in my business and the product he
sold and represented me was shit. So no, I will not call him ever again because
to me, that behavior speaks to total lack of INTEGRITY AND ETHICS. I hope the
$12,000 you bought from him were better than my $25. part.
>>
>> From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Kevin Ryniker
>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
>> To: 'Westmicro'; mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>>
>> I Have to agree with Mike to the extent that there must be something else
going on. This sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a producer on a
show that got in over his head.
>>
>> I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at least, never had a problem, I?ve easily
bought $12,000 worth of parts from him. He has always stood behind his work and
his dealings with me. He even warranty parts that I got from Wilkenson and Hall,
for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don but I think he is Don?s
brother, they used to be in business with each other, might be worthwhile to
call Bobby. Just an idea.
>>
>> Any help I can aid in please feel free to ask.
>>
>> Durland Productions
>> Kevin Ryniker, Cell (858) 336 9803
>> Phone (858) 693 6207, Fax (858) 693 6227
>> 8766 Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126
>> www.durlandproductions.com
>>
>>
>>
>> From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Westmicro
>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
>> To: mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>>
>> Please pass all this on to Don.
>> Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and he will make it
right.
>> Reputation and doing the right thing is Everything in Business.
>> Dave Nuding
>> Western Micrographics & Imaging Systems
>> Houston / San Diego
>> 858-722-5500
>> http://www.westernmicrographics.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Becker <mikebecker at cox.net>
>> To: 'Ed Mendez' <edducati at mac.com>; 'San Diego Panteras' <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
>> Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>> Holy crap, that's terrible Ed. So sorry to hear this. I don't understand,
>> I've never heard a bad thing about Don. I've also never had any work done
>> by him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for itself. I
>> can't imagine what his reasoning is. I don't have any kind of relationship
>> with him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him. Maybe something just
>> got into him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in. Maybe
>> he's got some other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point or
>> something like that. Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good on it.
>> I would hold off on slinging mud until all options for reconciliation are
>> exhausted.
>> Hang in there,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
>> Behalf Of Ed Mendez
>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:39 PM
>> To: San Diego Panteras
>> Subject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagged but that is
>> nothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me before I left.
>>
>> After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final invoiced
>> bill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the Pantera
>> Electronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera not
>> charging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera Electronics
>> however, it was from Don not following the simple directions and hooking
>> things up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out the
>> issues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out of my
>> shop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running either. He
>> verbally told me on the 22nd that it would be about $2000 more and he would
>> have it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails, the
>> seat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked me. He
>> said that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was leaving,
>> he wanted cash, and would not release the car until I paid him in full!
>>
>> I have always paid him up front, and in advance. Since I was leaving the
>> country, he gave me no choice, I had to come up with cash. He delivered the
>> car to me, backed it out of his trailer still hooked to the cable, I then
>> paid him in full and he refused to unhook the car until I signed a waiver
>> releasing him of any work related defects!!!
>>
>> He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!
>>
>> Now the car is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in, the belts
>> were not done, seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he left my
>> brand new air compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car runs but
>> electrically a mess, far from being done, and far from being in a state of
>> condition for the money I paid him.
>>
>> Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front of
>> whom? The new President of POCA!
>>
>> Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I just wonder what I did, I was
>> utterly insulted. What did I do to deserve this? His wife told me Don was
>> mad because I did not let him finish the car!!!??? I paid him a total of
>> $42,000. He knew the drop dead date months before I was leaving. Even John
Haas of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don did not call him once!!! I
asked John Haas to call him.
>> At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can please
>> offer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state to ship
>> overseas.
>>
>> Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all I have is
>> you guys to spread the word about what he did to me.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Ed Mendez
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed by
POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed by
POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
>
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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 05:34:29 -0500 (EST)
From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
To: detomaso at POCA.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] UK vintage race Pantera video
Message-ID: <14054.1f799bfa.4024bf3a at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi guys,
Video of a guy named Terry Gisborne, who has a highly modified Pantera that
he races in some sort of vintage class in England. He's got a video on
Youtube, including a bit of drama at the end where he gets rammed by an MG!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsusNcL81Q
Mike
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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 12:01:01 +0000
From: Andy May <andymay24 at gmail.com>
To: MikeLDrew at aol.com
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aluminium intake manifold treatment
Message-ID:
<CAFa9QjF5f-KG-FPP2mwpAZKqiS5sfZFhSCyD1G6j2KUtbp_26g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Mike, I could imagine that with the temparature most intake manifolds
get up to, life would get very smelly spraying with WD40. Surely better to
use a more stable fix like NU Cast previously mentioned?
I use WD40 for the ZF, and that seems to work well on that.
Kind regards
Andy
On Feb 6, 2014 9:29 AM, <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/5/14 21 04 52, bflesland at gmail.com writes:
>
>
> What is the best way to refurbish an aluminium air intake manifold?
> It has some dark stains due to age and yellowing because of previous fuel
> leaks.
> Is media blasting a good solution?
> What type of media?
> Should it be clear coated or treated in any way afterwards to make the
> fresh appearance last longer? Thanks!
>
>
> >>>I would presume a ZF case and an intake manifold would both respond the
> same. When I was at Lloyd Butfoy's shop helping to rebuild my spare ZF, he
> had be blast the cases with a light abrasive compound (it wasn't sand, it
> was a slightly abrasive media, maybe walnut shells?). He sprayed the whole
> thing down with a very liberal coating of WD40 and then wiped it down. He
> said the WD40 fills the pores, gives it a very nice finish, and makes it
> very easy to clean if it gets greasy. Just wipe it down, and if you use an
> aggressive cleaner (a degreaser for instance), when you're done you just
> shoot it with WD40 again.
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 07:57:39 -0500
From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
To: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
Message-ID:
<CAEWtxWqBavkj4N_CP4M9+E=-n2otL7wFkEiitHR4wxa38GeG0w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Any 12 year old can change the content of an email and reset the computer
clock to give it a new time stamp.
Michael
On Feb 6, 2014 1:19 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
> You will find emails are generally worthless in court if it comes to
> that.
>
> I'm not a lawyer but if the shop had email responses from the customer
> confirming "yes, I want XXX done at YYY price" I would think it would
> protect them against charges that they had done work without permission.
> (Not that this applies here-- I just find it hard to believe that emails
> are meaningless in court-- certainly better than "he told me verbally.")
>
> In California the shop has to give you a written estimate and document
> that they called you on certain dates to confirm that you agree to any
> further work. My understanding is that if they do stuff you don't approve
> you don't have to pay for it-- the shop has to eat it.
>
> Do you have the original estimate and itemization of things beyond that
> you agreed to?
>
> Jim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: michael <michael at michaelshortt.com>
> To: Bjoern Flesland <bflesland at gmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Wed, Feb 5, 2014 9:11 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
>
> You will find emails are generally worthless in court if it comes to
> that.
> I would have a written contact with each and every
> Itemized task and quoted cost beside it.
> I would have completion dates for each project as well.
> It's only legal if you both sign it, a notary seal makes it all the better.
> You should also have warranty terms and a stated policy of organization of
> receipts.
> Any items requiring additional hours or change orders should require a
> signed addendum sheet.
> No honest shop should object, it protects them as much as it does you.
> Of course a written list and complete photographic inventory and condition
> of the "before" car should help settle any issues with dents, scratches,
> missing parts, etc.
> Michael Shortt
> Good fences make good neighbors, a solid restoration agreement will keep
> your shop and you on good terms before, during and after your car has been
> serviced.
> On Feb 5, 2014 11:48 PM, "bflesland at gmail.com" <bflesland at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> So what's the best suggested approach of having major work done at a
>> car resto/body shop?
>> I am myself starting having a car restored/built and painted by a
>> reputable shop as well and want to avoid any future problems.
>>
>> I understand paying upfront is a no-no.
>> I don't have a contract but everything to be done is in writing by email.
>> I am getting billed along the way as work progress.
>>
>> Is a contract mandatory in case of future problems?
>>
>> Hope I am not hijacking the thread here but this has happened before
>> and will again for somebody in the future, for sure!
>> I think bad communications and/or unrealistic expectations may be the
>> cause sometimes, together with poorly performed work, not done in a timely
>> manner.
>> Once I had to retrieve a car from a shop due to the shop owner had
>> personal problems, long sad story...
>>
>> The thing today with internet and everything, is that from someone you
>> hear a shop is very good and reputable.
>> But if you search them yourself on the web you find bad stories posted as
>> well.
>> So not easy to pick the right shop.
>>
>> Sorry for the long rant!
>> Cheers Bjoern
>>
>>
>> Den 5. feb. 2014 kl. 20:38 skrev audionut at hushmail.com:
>>
>> Sad to hear stuff like this.
>>
>> Don's shop did my A/C upgrade on time at a fair price around the year
>> 2008. Hard to believe a respected, time-tested shop like this screwed up
>> but....
>>
>> The shop is nearly *always* responsible for horror stories like this.
>> It is the responsibility of the shop to quote the job right, clearly,*
>> in writing*, and complete
>> the job within a reasonable time, barring circumstances beyond the shops'
>> control. Misunderstandings should be easily cleared up by the contract, if
>> they are not,
>> then the shop f'd up.
>>
>> If the job gets out of hand in some way and the customer gets upset,
>> then it is nothing but a petty, juvenile, bully attitude if the shop then
>> says "Hey if you don't like it, I got your car, I got your money so, nyah
>> nyah nyah. What are you gonna do about it?"
>>
>> I can't see how Ed did anything wrong other than pay in full up front.
>> Always a bad idea.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent using Hushmail
>>
>>
>> On February 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ed,
>>
>> Just to give us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the
>> original estimate of $36K? That's a significant amount of money.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
>> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
>> Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
>>
>> To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,
>>
>> You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you.
>>
>> As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage he
>> did to my Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years! It is
>> shameful behaviour!
>>
>> Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would
>> rather you did not. Don deserves no advertising.
>>
>> Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more dollars
>> out of me, and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all warranty for work
>> he completed.
>>
>> Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to
>> finish, and I am out of a lot of cash.
>>
>> I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends worldwide
>> on Facebook. I guess he will soon.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From: *"Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
>> *Subject: **RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read*
>> *Date: *4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT
>> *To: *Kevin Ryniker <durland at san.rr.com>, 'Westmicro' <westmicro at aol.com>,
>> "mikebecker at cox.net" <mikebecker at cox.net>, "edducati at mac.com" <
>> edducati at mac.com>, "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com" <
>> sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
>> *Cc: *"Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
>>
>> I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small,
>> inexpensive part for my car. His response was "that's all you want to
>> buy?" to which I said yes. He then sighed and reluctantly took my order.
>> Upon receipt, the part was a poorly reproduced version of the original
>> part, the art work was off-center and after attempting to "fix" it myself,
>> I threw it in the trash. So my only experience with him was he was
>> uninterested in my business and the product he sold and represented me was
>> shit. So no, I will not call him ever again because to me, that behavior
>> speaks to total lack of INTEGRITY AND ETHICS. I hope the $12,000 you
>> bought from him were better than my $25. part.
>>
>> *From:* sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Kevin Ryniker
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
>> *To:* 'Westmicro'; mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com;
>> sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>>
>> I Have to agree with Mike to the extent that there must be something else
>> going on. This sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a producer
>> on a show that got in over his head.
>>
>> I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at least, never had a problem, I've
>> easily bought $12,000 worth of parts from him. He has always stood behind
>> his work and his dealings with me. He even warranty parts that I got from
>> Wilkenson and Hall, for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don
>> but I think he is Don's brother, they used to be in business with each
>> other, might be worthwhile to call Bobby. Just an idea.
>>
>> Any help I can aid in please feel free to ask.
>>
>> Durland Productions
>> Kevin Ryniker, Cell (858) 336 9803
>> Phone (858) 693 6207, Fax (858) 693 6227
>> 8766 Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126
>> www.durlandproductions.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Westmicro
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
>> *To:* mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>>
>> Please pass all this on to Don.
>> Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and he will
>> make it right.
>> Reputation and doing the right thing is Everything in Business.
>> *Dave Nuding*
>> *Western Micrographics & Imaging Systems*
>> *Houston / San Diego*
>> *858-722-5500*
>> *http://www.westernmicrographics.com*
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Becker <mikebecker at cox.net>
>> To: 'Ed Mendez' <edducati at mac.com>; 'San Diego Panteras' <
>> sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
>> Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>>
>> Holy crap, that's terrible Ed. So sorry to hear this. I don't understand,
>>
>> I've never heard a bad thing about Don. I've also never had any work done
>>
>> by him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for itself. I
>>
>> can't imagine what his reasoning is. I don't have any kind of relationship
>>
>> with him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him. Maybe something just
>>
>> got into him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in. Maybe
>>
>> he's got some other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point or
>>
>> something like that. Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good on it.
>>
>> I would hold off on slinging mud until all options for reconciliation are
>>
>> exhausted.
>>
>> Hang in there,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
>>
>> Behalf Of Ed Mendez
>>
>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:39 PM
>>
>> To: San Diego Panteras
>>
>> Subject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagged but that is
>>
>> nothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me before I left.
>>
>>
>>
>> After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final invoiced
>>
>> bill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the Pantera
>>
>> Electronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera not
>>
>> charging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera Electronics
>>
>> however, it was from Don not following the simple directions and hooking
>>
>> things up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out the
>>
>> issues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out of my
>>
>> shop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running either. He
>>
>> verbally told me on the 22nd that it would be about $2000 more and he would
>>
>> have it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails, the
>>
>> seat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked me. He
>>
>> said that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was leaving,
>>
>> he wanted cash, and would not release the car until I paid him in full!
>>
>>
>>
>> I have always paid him up front, and in advance. Since I was leaving the
>>
>> country, he gave me no choice, I had to come up with cash. He delivered the
>>
>> car to me, backed it out of his trailer still hooked to the cable, I then
>>
>> paid him in full and he refused to unhook the car until I signed a waiver
>>
>> releasing him of any work related defects!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!
>>
>>
>>
>> Now the car is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in, the belts
>>
>> were not done, seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he left my
>>
>> brand new air compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car runs but
>>
>> electrically a mess, far from being done, and far from being in a state of
>>
>> condition for the money I paid him.
>>
>>
>>
>> Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front of
>>
>> whom? The new President of POCA!
>>
>>
>>
>> Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I just wonder what I did, I was
>>
>> utterly insulted. What did I do to deserve this? His wife told me Don was
>>
>> mad because I did not let him finish the car!!!??? I paid him a total of
>>
>> $42,000. He knew the drop dead date months before I was leaving. Even John
Haas of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don did not call him once!!! I
asked John Haas to call him.
>>
>> At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can
please
>>
>> offer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state to ship
>>
>> overseas.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all I have is
>>
>> you guys to spread the word about what he did to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Ed Mendez
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing listDeTomaso at poca.comhttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing listDeTomaso at poca.comhttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 05:34:07 -0800
From: Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart at msn.com>
To: mike drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>
Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aluminium intake NOW Cyl head paint
Message-ID: <BAY175-W350AEBB46EA3159688D1B1A5940 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Somebody posted a while ago about a really good high temp paint for cylinder
heads.
I looked in the archives but can not find the post. Does anybody remember the
name of that product? Thanks
Peter
check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com
In a message dated 2/5/14 21 04 52, bflesland at gmail.com writes:
What is the best way to refurbish an aluminium air intake manifold?
It has some dark stains due to age and yellowing because of previous fuel leaks.
Is media blasting a good solution?
What type of media?
Should it be clear coated or treated in any way afterwards to make the fresh
appearance last longer? Than
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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 08:46:52 -0500
From: Sean Korb <spkorb at gmail.com>
To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FLUIDYNE RADIATOR STORY
Message-ID:
<CABpzvs82DcD_g2FdhqVF_fJYtkskOqob3sAbSAZsWHNgS1tKfw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I know I should let this thread quiet down but I remembered something
today with head gasket failures. On my just broken in 351W (375ci
stroked motor) with Edelbrock aluminum heads, ARP studs and Isky cam,
I had a ton of power. I went to the dyno and t seemed to run fine but
I only got 275HP at the wheels. Very strange. I took it home and the
drive back seemed uneventful and I still felt like I had a lot of
torque.
Well, I had oil in my radiator so I took the heads off. It turned out
that at peak power the heads were lifting and gasses, oil and coolant
was getting past my Victor Reinz head gaskets.
I had never retorqued my heads.
So I replaced the gaskets, torqued my heads down and now it works great.
So it *is* possible for a head gasket leak to heal itself, but it
won't last long.
sean
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 2:28 PM, <LEVITT1946 at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> Many of you go thru high heat issues with the Pantera.
>
> When I purchased my car in 2008 the previous owner told me if I was in
> traffic to just pull over . I was determined to cure this car from high heat
> exposure.
>
> The first things I attached on the car was the following:
>
> Replaced Water Pump with Hi Flow Water Pump
> Replaced Thermostat ( many times)
> Replaced the old brass radiator with an new Aluminum radiator from Summit.
> Replaced Meriah fans with new sucker fans
> Replaced antifreeze and purged air from system (many times)
> Did complete Tune Up. ( many times)
>
> Now it was time for the big test. I got on the highway and the car was
> holding temp at a steady 180. The minute I got off the highway the temp
> started rising to the point of boil over. I could hear my pressure bottle
> perculating.
>
> This went on for years. I drove the car across the USA in the Gumball
> Rally.As long as the car was moving I knew we would be ok and we made it
> from Santa Monica California to Miami Beach safely.
>
> The car was still running hot so I tracked down an NOS Pressure tank and
> overflow bottle from a place in Modena Italy. I thought maybe there was
> something wrong with my pressure and overflow bottles.
>
> My local mechanic replaced the pressure and overflow bottles and the car
> started to overheat immediately. The only part to look at now was the
> FLUIDYNE Radiator that I had replaced 4 years ago when I purchased the car.
>
> We let the car cool a little and then restarted the car. My mechanic said he
> was going to run water over the front of the radiator when I started the
> car. I was in the car while it was running to see if the water temp would
> lower as he ran the hose on the front of the FLUIDYNE radiator. The temp was
> lowering! . Then he said shut the car. My Mechanic said that since I had
> sucker fans my car should have been sprayed with water when he ran the water
> on the front of the radiator. Instead the car was DRY . This meant that the
> radiator was now allowing the water to flow through and thus no air could
> flow through either.
>
> Next step was to reverse the fans to blow out the front of the car and leave
> it idling in place . The car ran at a steady 180 for 30 minutes and the temp
> did not rise. This told us that the radiator was fault and only flowed ONE
> WAY .
>
> I could not believe that the radiator could be faulty. I drove home and
> cleaned the radiator with a pressure washer and ruined every fin on the
> radiator.
>
> Then I contacted the owner of Fluidyne. I explained what we had done and in
> summary we felt we had a one way radiator that could only flow air one way .
> I also admitted that I had pressure washed the radiator and ruined the
> outside fins. Hard to believe but TRUE.
> He asked me to send the radiator to him and if they faund any defect in
> workmanship he would replace the radiator at no charge. He came up with
> every excuse possible. He cut the radiator in half to look at the internals
> of the radiator.
>
> Here is FLUIDYNES actual response:
>
> Good Morning Robert,
>
>
>
> Further to our investigation:
>
> ? Your radiator was inspected upon receipt and found to be 'bloated'
> ... swollen in the middle of the core, consistent with symptoms of
> over-pressurization.
>
> ? The fans were tested while installed on the core and operation was
> verified. They seemed to pull a reasonable amount of air.
>
> ? The fans were then removed and inspected. The fans are "pusher"
> fans... not "puller" fans as you were told. [See pic 3 to see arrow markings]
>
> o They most likely were wired to work as "pullers" but the performance
> would be significantly hampered considering the pitch of the blade is
> backwards
>
> ? The Inlet/Outlet water tank was removed to inspect the core.
> Debris was found near the top & bottom [see pic 1 and 2] which had plugged
> several tubes.
>
> o This is not a significant blockage but we noted that foreign debris was
> indeed inside the core.
>
> ? The Return water tank was then removed [pic 4] which showed a
> significant amount of engine oil has passed thru the core.
>
> o We suspect this oil was introduced to the radiator by failure of a
> cylinder head gasket.
>
> o I appears the oil remained in the core for some time as it would not
> wipe off.
>
> o We also assume this failure created the high pressure event that caused
> the core to be over-pressurized.
>
> ? The Core shows no internal structural damage and the outside
> structure [air fin] was heavily damaged as you know and has rendered the
> core useless.
>
>
>
> Conclusion:
>
> The outside air fin has sustained significant damage and 90% of the louvers
> have been bent shut in both directions. The radiator core appears to be
> sound. We noted no failures of our Materials or Workmanship nor evidence of
> Electrolysis erosion. The over-pressurization event, while it likely
> created the 'bloated' shape of the unit, does not appear to have affected
> the core's performance.
>
>
>
> The only anomaly we discovered was the fact that as installed, the pusher
> fans were likely wired to run backwards as puller fans. This creates
> significant turbulence in and around the fan housing and would reduce
> performance by as much as 50%
>
>
>
> Next Steps:
>
> As I mentioned, we have initiated production of a replacement radiator [with
> the new 5-row Pantera core] for you. Per your instructions, we will install
> your fan temp sensors on the new core. You have also asked us to install
> your fans but in light of the problems noted here, I believe you may want to
> consider replacing these units. We can install new Spal units [the only
> brand I handle] if you prefer and I also suggest we install a Zinc Anode in
> the drain bung to protect against Electrolysis in the future.
>
> All of FLUIDYNES excuses and blaming the engine had cylinder head gasket
> leaks was a bunch of BS. I ended up paying for the new radiator and fans
> because I had no choice . Fluidyne should have stood behind their product
> but they DID NOT.
>
> We installed the new radiator on the car as well as two lights on the dash
> that would tell me when each fan was on and off. This way I knew the fans
> were working.
>
> We let the car run for a solid hour at the shop and the car never rose over
> 180 degrees. The high heat problem that existed for years was finally gone.
> My mechanic said that once I hit the highway the fans would actually shut
> off.
>
> On the way home from the shop both fans were RUNNING as they should. I
> entered the highway and in five minutes one fan shut down and then the
> other. I now had total confidence in the car.
>
> I guess the cylinder head gasket leaks that Fluidyne said my engine had,
> repaired itself . BS
>
> Just thought you guys should know.
>
> Best ,
>
> Bob Levitt
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
--
Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:11:13 +0000 (GMT)
From: cengles at cox.net
To: pmenyhart at msn.com
Cc: mikeldrew at aol.com, detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NOW Cyl head paint
Message-ID: <1a1ab1e.469f8.1440789c51f.Webtop.0 at cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Dear Peter,
I don't know the exact answer to your question. I have
done a few engines and I have used VHT engine paint on the iron heads.
I have been disappointed that it cooks off of the exhaust ports over
time.
I am building another engine. I have looked into engine
paints again. There are some engine paints capable of withstanding
*very* high temps. Unfortunately, the color choice is limited to black
or gray, if I recall correctly. I checked with a friend in the powder
paint business. He tells me that there is not any powder paint that
will endure the heat of the exhaust ports. I am resigned to paint the
engine and let the exhaust ports get fried over time. Sigh. It is not
nice and tidy.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Peter Menyhart wrote:
> Somebody posted a while ago about a really good high temp paint for
> cylinder heads.
> I looked in the archives but can not find the post. Does anybody
> remember the name of that product? Thanks
> Peter
>
> check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com
>
>
>
> In a message dated 2/5/14 21 04 52, bflesland at gmail.com writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> What is the best way to refurbish an aluminium air intake manifold?
>
>
> It has some dark stains due to age and yellowing because of previous
> fuel leaks.
>
> Is media blasting a good solution?
>
> What type of media?
>
> Should it be clear coated or treated in any way afterwards to make the
> fresh appearance last longer? Than
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 08:16:16 -0600
From: Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
To: Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart at msn.com>
Cc: mike drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>, "detomaso at poca.com"
<detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aluminium intake NOW Cyl head paint
Message-ID:
<CACpDPGDCL58-XujNxve4P5ON=TEG5WmxMRWgPrCQ=po4SnKKAA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Maybe this?
http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/techinfo/Paint/
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart at msn.com> wrote:
> Somebody posted a while ago about a really good high temp paint for
> cylinder heads.
> I looked in the archives but can not find the post. Does anybody remember
> the name of that product?
> Thanks
>
> Peter
>
> check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com
>
>
> In a message dated 2/5/14 21 04 52, bflesland at gmail.com writes:
>
>
> What is the best way to refurbish an aluminium air intake manifold?
> It has some dark stains due to age and yellowing because of previous fuel
> leaks.
> Is media blasting a good solution?
> What type of media?
> Should it be clear coated or treated in any way afterwards to make the
> fresh appearance last longer? Than
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:17:21 +0000 (GMT)
From: cengles at cox.net
To: andymay24 at gmail.com
Cc: mikeldrew at aol.com, detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aluminium intake manifold treatment
Message-ID: <160c177.46a22.144078f631f.Webtop.0 at cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Dear Bjoern and Forum,
I am currently sanding and polishing up an aluminum intake
manifold. In short order, I will take it Jet Hot and have it coated
with high polish aluminized ceramic coating. Good news: it won't stain.
Easy to shine up. More resistant to scratches and dings. Bad news:
Cost is $215 (full pro polishing is $600, locally) and final appearance
depends on how smooth the metal finish is going into the coating
process. FWIW.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 6:01 AM, Andy May wrote:
> Hi Mike, I could imagine that with the temparature most intake
> manifolds
> get up to, life would get very smelly spraying with WD40. Surely
> better to
> use a more stable fix like NU Cast previously mentioned?
>
> I use WD40 for the ZF, and that seems to work well on that.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Andy
> On Feb 6, 2014 9:29 AM, <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> In a message dated 2/5/14 21 04 52, bflesland at gmail.com writes:
>>
>>
>> What is the best way to refurbish an aluminium air intake manifold?
>> It has some dark stains due to age and yellowing because of previous
>> fuel
>> leaks.
>> Is media blasting a good solution?
>> What type of media?
>> Should it be clear coated or treated in any way afterwards to make
>> the
>> fresh appearance last longer? Thanks!
>>
>>
>>>>> I would presume a ZF case and an intake manifold would both
>>>>> respond the
>> same. When I was at Lloyd Butfoy's shop helping to rebuild my spare
>> ZF, he
>> had be blast the cases with a light abrasive compound (it wasn't
>> sand, it
>> was a slightly abrasive media, maybe walnut shells?). He sprayed the
>> whole
>> thing down with a very liberal coating of WD40 and then wiped it
>> down. He
>> said the WD40 fills the pores, gives it a very nice finish, and makes
>> it
>> very easy to clean if it gets greasy. Just wipe it down, and if you
>> use an
>> aggressive cleaner (a degreaser for instance), when you're done you
>> just
>> shoot it with WD40 again.
>>
>> Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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Message: 26
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:20:12 +0000 (GMT)
From: cengles at cox.net
To: kirby.schrader at gmail.com
Cc: mikeldrew at aol.com, detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NOW Cyl head paint
Message-ID: <19b007b.46a4d.1440791fffd.Webtop.0 at cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Dear Kirby: Hmmm. Pretty nice results....and "stainless steel"
(gray) doesn't look all that bad.....hmmm. Thanks, Chuck Engles
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:16 AM, Kirby Schrader wrote:
Maybe this? http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/techinfo/Paint/
<http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/techinfo/Paint/>
<http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/techinfo/Paint/>
<http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/techinfo/Paint/>
<http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/techinfo/Paint/>
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Peter Menyhart < pmenyhart at msn.com
<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('pmenyhart at msn.com')> >
wrote:
Somebody posted a while ago about a really good high temp paint for
cylinder heads.
I looked in the archives but can not find the post. Does anybody
remember the?name of that product??
Thanks
?
Peter
check out our website at:?? www.whitehorseranch.com
<http://www.whitehorseranch.com> ??
In a message dated 2/5/14 21 04 52, bflesland at gmail.com
<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('bflesland at gmail.com')>
writes:
What is the best way to refurbish an aluminium air intake manifold?
It has some dark stains due to age and yellowing because of previous
fuel leaks.
Is media blasting a good solution?
What type of media?
Should it be clear coated or treated in any way afterwards to make the
fresh appearance last longer? Than
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
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<http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com>
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Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('DeTomaso at poca.com')> ?
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http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
<http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com> ?
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Message: 27
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 06:26:30 -0800
From: Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart at msn.com>
To: TPR15 <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aluminium intake NOW Cyl head paint
Message-ID: <BAY175-W45F9D0D732F2AA3DAA3865A5940 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Than you Kirby,
that's the one I'm looking for
Peter
ps:this forum is truly the greatest thing in motor head land
check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 08:16:16 -0600
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aluminium intake NOW Cyl head paint
From: kirby.schrader at gmail.com
To: pmenyhart at msn.com
CC: mikeldrew at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
Maybe this?http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/techinfo/Paint/
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart at msn.com> wrote:
Somebody posted a while ago about a really good high temp paint for cylinder
heads.
I looked in the archives but can not find the post. Does anybody remember the
name of that product?
Thanks
Peter
check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com
In a message dated 2/5/14 21 04 52, bflesland at gmail.com writes:
What is the best way to refurbish an aluminium air intake manifold?
It has some dark stains due to age and yellowing because of previous fuel leaks.
Is media blasting a good solution?
What type of media?
Should it be clear coated or treated in any way afterwards to make the fresh
appearance last longer? Than
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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Message: 28
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 08:45:14 -0600
From: Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
To: Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart at msn.com>
Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aluminium intake NOW Cyl head paint
Message-ID:
<CACpDPGA9tUBD5yLZ+sTgvqVcoMJGh7fu2sG4mbb+mcCm2ksJYQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Excellent!
That makes all the work I've done on the website worth it.
:-)
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart at msn.com> wrote:
>
> Than you Kirby,
> that's the one I'm looking for
>
> Peter
> ps:this forum is truly the greatest thing in motor head land
>
> check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 08:16:16 -0600
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aluminium intake NOW Cyl head paint
> From: kirby.schrader at gmail.com
> To: pmenyhart at msn.com
> CC: mikeldrew at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
>
> Maybe this?
> http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/techinfo/Paint/
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart at msn.com> wrote:
>
> Somebody posted a while ago about a really good high temp paint for
> cylinder heads.
> I looked in the archives but can not find the post. Does anybody remember
> the name of that product?
> Thanks
>
> Peter
>
> check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com
>
>
> In a message dated 2/5/14 21 04 52, bflesland at gmail.com writes:
>
>
> What is the best way to refurbish an aluminium air intake manifold?
> It has some dark stains due to age and yellowing because of previous fuel
> leaks.
> Is media blasting a good solution?
> What type of media?
> Should it be clear coated or treated in any way afterwards to make the
> fresh appearance last longer? Than
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
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Message: 29
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 07:01:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Gray <grayjim at att.net>
To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Screws for center console
Message-ID:
<1391698895.46635.YahooMailNeo at web185403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Seeing the nice shiny thumbscrews that hold in the center console on 71-72
models advertised, I wondered:? Will these work on the later 73-74 cars that
have plain old phillips-head screws?
?
Jim "just wondering" Gray?
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Message: 30
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 08:46:36 -0800
From: Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart at msn.com>
To: TPR18 <cengles at cox.net>, TPR15 <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
Cc: mike drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>, "detomaso at poca.com"
<detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NOW Cyl head paint
Message-ID: <BAY175-W1766C00714343D938A1710A5940 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Howdy,
I ordered the Bill Hirsch Manifold/head paint. Interestingly the price from
Bill Hirsch is 30.oo plus 19,95 shipping.
I found it on ebay for 30.oo plus 9,95 shipping from a company called tptools.
10.oo saved for the pantera restoration project
Peter
check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:20:12 +0000
From: cengles at cox.net
To: kirby.schrader at gmail.com
CC: pmenyhart at msn.com; mikeldrew at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NOW Cyl head paint
Dear Kirby: Hmmm. Pretty nice results....and "stainless steel" (gray)
doesn't look all that bad.....hmmm. Thanks, Chuck Engles
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:16 AM, Kirby Schrader wrote:
Maybe this? http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/techinfo/Paint/
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Peter Menyhart < pmenyhart at msn.com> wrote:
Somebody posted a while ago about a really good high temp paint for cylinder
heads. I looked in the archives but can not find the post. Does anybody remember
the name of that product? Thanks Peter
check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com
In a message dated 2/5/14 21 04 52, bflesland at gmail.comwrites:
What is the best way to refurbish an aluminium air intake manifold? It has some
dark stains due to age and yellowing because of previous fuel leaks. Is media
blasting a good solution? What type of media? Should it be clear coated or
treated in any way afterwards to make the fresh appearance last longer? Than
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.comhttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing listDeTomaso at poca.com http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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Message: 31
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 11:22:46 -0600
From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
To: POCA list <detomaso at poca.com>, Brian <mazdastuff at yahoo.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Brian Hill's 410 cubic inch cast iron Cleveland on
the dyno
Message-ID:
<CAD=EzWWuTV9jviOcYLbwE+eXnkNTeNuF19oSMdtU+gBSKzm16Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The odometer on Brian Hill's 1971 Pantera showed 60K miles but its 351
Cleveland was burning some oil. The history of the engine was unknown
and Brian wanted more power anyway so it was decided to build a
stroker Cleveland. Dis-assembly revealed the block had already been
bored 0.030" but had a few thousandths of wear so was honed to a
4.040" bore. A Scat stroker kit with Probe forged dished pistons, 6"
rods and a forged steel 4" stroke crank was used to provide 10:1
compression and a displacement of 410 cubic inches. The distributor,
carb, water pump, alternator were new and the McLeod flywheel had been
recently resurfaced so those parts were re-used, along with the
Pantera 10 quart oil pan.
Most of the stroker Clevelands we've done have been with aluminum
heads (Ford Motorsport A3 high ports, Ford Motorsport C302B high
ports, Brodix BF300 high ports, CHI 3V and 4V, TFS 2V, etc.) but this
one was the first in a long time that retained the 1970's era OEM cast
iron 4V heads. The heads were rebuilt years ago with replaceable
bronze guides and had been milled and drilled for screw-in studs and
guide plates. Dave McLain machined the spring pockets for double
springs, installed single groove valves, did a valve job and
resurfaced the heads. They looked pretty good so no additional
porting work was done. On the SuperFlow bench, they flowed:
Lift Intake Exhaust
Inch CFM CFM
0.025 13.90 10.90
0.050 33.10 26.50
0.100 66.40 52.20
0.200 140.20 97.90
0.300 201.20 129.90
0.400 251.40 152.30
0.500 290.90 165.50
0.600 313.90 172.70
0.700 301.70 173.30
0.800 303.20 174.70
I used Dynomation to design the cam, starting with the simulation and
dyno results of the 408C we did for Glen Hartog's Pantera. That
engine also used cast iron closed chamber 4V heads but those had some
short-side radius work and flowed a bit better (322 CFM @ 0.6").
Compared to the dyno data from Glen's engine, the latest version of
Dynomation was under-predicting the RPM of the HP peak so I biased my
goal to make sure the cam would peak at 6000 RPM, providing the best
average HP between 4000 and a 6500 RPM shift point. That works well
for a street driven Pantera with stock gearing and still pulls strong
at lower RPM. Rather than use the Bullet lobes we'd used in the past,
Dave worked with Steve Demos and Mike Ingram to design a couple new
hydraulic roller lobes. The lobes are based upon the Ford base
circle, not the smaller Chevy base circle of the previous Bullet lobes
we've used. The resulting Demos hydraulic roller cam was checked using
Cam Analyzer v4.0 and proved to be very close to the requested specs:
Cam # DM238HR/DM242HR, Grind 0001
279.3/282.8 advertised duration
239.6/242.6 degrees duration @ 0.050"
159.8/162.4 degrees duration @ 0.200"
0.620"/0.621" intake/exhaust lift (with 1.73:1 rocker arms)
109 degrees LSA
108 degres ICL
Seat Timing
Intake Open 28.8 BTDC
Intake Close 70.5 ABDC
Exhaust Close 33.8 ATDC
Exhaust Open 69.7 BBDC
0.050" timing
Intake Open 10.8 BTDC
Intake Close 48.8 ABDC
Exhaust Close 11.9 ATDC
Exhaust Open 50.7 BBDC
PBM/Morel link bar hydraulic roller lifters were used and the roller
rockers from the original engine were retained. Previously, we had
tested a bunch of intake manifolds on Mike Drew's 408C with CHI 4V
aluminum heads. The best of the lot were the Edelbrock Scorpion,
Holley Strip Dominator and a ported Blue Thunder dual plane. The
Edelbrock Scorpion is no longer in production but I found a good used
one so we went with it. Looking much like an Edebrock Torker, the
Scorpion is taller with a level carb pad (nice to have in the Pantera
which has a level mounted engine and transaxle). Dave did a lot of
work on the entry radius of the ports in Scorpion's plenum. On the
dyno, best power was made with a 1" open spacer and best torque was
with a 1" HVH spacer it only dropped a few horsepower and a few lbs-ft
of torque without a spacer. Brian supplied a Holley 750 carburetor
(p/n 80528) which I thought might be on the small side for the stroker
engine but watching the manifold vacuum during the pulls showed no
significant depression so it looks like it's adequate for the 6000 RPM
410C. It seems snappy and idles clean. The engine liked 30 degrees
for total timing. Brian will be using a stainless Wilkinson Pantera
exhaust system which performed well in previous testing but the engine
was tested with the following exhaust on the dyno:
Hooker 351C Competition headers (part number HOK-6920HKR)
1 3/4" diameter by 27" long primaries
3" diameter by 8" long collector
12 inch long collector extensions
3" inlet/outlet Magnaflow mufflers
Based upon the simulation results, I thought we'd hit 500 HP at 6000
RPM but the engine really surprised us by making 560 horsepower at
6050 RPM and 526 lbs-ft at 4600 RPM through the dyno exhaust. Not too
shabby for a street cam and factory iron Cleveland heads. Seems the
big port heads really like the extra cubes. Previous testing has
shown the 4V heads also respond to a shorter exhaust rocker ratio and
to exhaust port stuffers (MPG Stingers). It would have been
interesting to see if we could squeeze out a few more ponies but I
think Brian will be pleased with the results. He kindly offered to
let me use his engine to do back-to-back testing between his iron
closed chamber 4V heads and a set of my Ford Motorsport aluminum high
ports (ported C302Bs) but with the very cold weather this winter
Dave's running a bit behind on the dyno so that testing will have to
wait. The dyno rolls outside the shop and hooks up to an external
water source so it needs to be above freezing weather which the latest
forecast says won't happen in the next week. We'll pick back up with
testing the C302B heads on my 407 Fontana engine in the spring. FWIW,
the Dynomation simulation predicts another 70 HP for my ported C302B
heads and intake.
Dan Jones
------------------------------
Message: 32
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 17:33:03 +0000
From: "Himes, Terry (397C)" <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
To: Bjoern Flesland <bflesland at gmail.com>, "detomaso at poca.com"
<detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
Message-ID: <CF17DE69.4FCDC%thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
I believe there are 2 sides to this story. I would not make a judgement before
hearing the other side.
I have only read ONE side. And that side seems to be filled with lots of drama.
Something smells funny to me.
Why would anyone put that amount of money up front? Goes against all common
sense.
I've used Don (& Bob) for years (well since 2000) and NEVER had a problem with
their work. In fact, Don has
always been upfront and honest and always was reasonable. Of course I always
kept in-touch with him during
any project. His communication and feedback was always great and he finished
when he said he would.
Also, I've had my Pantera;
* totally stripped, sanded and painted. (Coachworks. Excellent Job!!)
* engine rebuilt with upgrades (nothing fancy) (Ed Hale. Excellent job!!)
* ZF rebuilt and polished (Don Byars. Excellent job!!)
* Installation of engine & ZF (Classic Mustang. Excellent job!!)
* New rims, wheels, shocks and springs (Don Byars. Excellent job!!)
* New automatic choke and rebuild of front calipers. (Don Byars. Excellent
Job!!)
Am I lucky? No! Am I a mechanic? No. (my father was, and I paid attention)
I always made it very clear EXACTLY what I wanted done to my Pantera in writing!
Everyone always provided me a COST for doing that.
When they would find something else to be fixed, he contacted me, sent pictures
and we came to a decision!
Sometimes by email. Which is not a legal document, but is proof you
discussed the issue.
Sometimes I would defer the fix, and sometimes I would accept the fix and extra
cost and time!
Having said that, I sincerely hope Ed's Pantera gets fixed and back on the road
where it belongs. There are lots
of garage mechanics out there to help if you don't want it done by a
professional or a business.
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Deep Impact Sequence Team Lead
Deep Impact Spacecraft Engineer & Activity Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
Fax: (818) 393-3147
thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
From: Bjoern Flesland <bflesland at gmail.com<mailto:bflesland at gmail.com>>
Date: Wednesday, February 5, 2014 12:00 PM
To: "detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>" <detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
Sad story indeed. Hope it works out for you, Ed.
Wonder why the regulars here (i.e. heavy posters) don't post anything about
this...
Cheers Bjoern
On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 8:38 PM, <audionut at hushmail.com<mailto:audionut at hushmail.com>>
wrote:
Sad to hear stuff like this.
Don's shop did my A/C upgrade on time at a fair price around the year 2008.
Hard to believe a respected, time-tested shop like this screwed up but....
The shop is nearly always responsible for horror stories like this. It is the
responsibility of the shop to quote the job right, clearly, in writing, and
complete
the job within a reasonable time, barring circumstances beyond the shops'
control. Misunderstandings should be easily cleared up by the contract, if they
are not,
then the shop f'd up.
If the job gets out of hand in some way and the customer gets upset, then it is
nothing but a petty, juvenile, bully attitude if the shop then says "Hey if you
don't like it, I got your car, I got your money so, nyah nyah nyah. What are
you gonna do about it?"
I can't see how Ed did anything wrong other than pay in full up front. Always a
bad idea.
Sent using Hushmail
On February 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com<mailto:pantdino at aol.com>>
wrote:
Ed,
Just to give us some background, what was Don supposed to do for the original
estimate of $36K? That's a significant amount of money.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com<mailto:edducati at mac.com>>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>
Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 2:03 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Don Byars and what he did to me and my Pantera
To All Pantera Owners Worldwide,
You should all ready this, so this does not happen to you.
As of now Don Byars refuses to help me or repair any of the damage he did to my
Pantera after paying him $42,000 over the last two years! It is shameful
behaviour!
Mike Drew was going to feature my car in Profiles. Sorry but I would rather you
did not. Don deserves no advertising.
Read below how Don held my car as ransom, extorted $6000 more dollars out of me,
and made me sign a waiver releasing him of all warranty for work he completed.
Now I am in another country, I have dumped my car on a friend to finish, and I
am out of a lot of cash.
I guess he did not realise that I have 300+ Pantera friends worldwide on
Facebook. I guess he will soon.
Ed
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Date: 4 February 2014 17:41:57 NZDT
To: Kevin Ryniker <durland at san.rr.com>, 'Westmicro' <westmicro at aol.com>,
"mikebecker at cox.net" <mikebecker at cox.net>, "edducati at mac.com"
<edducati at mac.com>, "sdpanteras at googlegroups.com" <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
Cc: "Patterson, Lee R." <LEE.R.PATTERSON at saic.com>
I can only relate the time I called him to purchase a very small, inexpensive
part for my car. His response was ?that?s all you want to buy?? to which I said
yes. He then sighed and reluctantly took my order. Upon receipt, the part was
a poorly reproduced version of the original part, the art work was off-center
and after attempting to ?fix? it myself, I threw it in the trash. So my only
experience with him was he was uninterested in my business and the product he
sold and represented me was shit. So no, I will not call him ever again because
to me, that behavior speaks to total lack of INTEGRITY AND ETHICS. I hope the
$12,000 you bought from him were better than my $25. part.
From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Kevin Ryniker
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 8:30 PM
To: 'Westmicro'; mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
I Have to agree with Mike to the extent that there must be something else going
on. This sounds like a cash flow crunch, he is acting like a producer on a show
that got in over his head.
I known Bobby Buyers for 10 years at least, never had a problem, I?ve easily
bought $12,000 worth of parts from him. He has always stood behind his work and
his dealings with me. He even warranty parts that I got from Wilkenson and Hall,
for free, expensive stuff. Never really delt with Don but I think he is Don?s
brother, they used to be in business with each other, might be worthwhile to
call Bobby. Just an idea.
Any help I can aid in please feel free to ask.
[X] Durland Productions
Kevin Ryniker, Cell (858) 336 9803<tel:%28858%29%20336%209803>
Phone (858) 693 6207<tel:%28858%29%20693%206207>, Fax (858) 693
6227<tel:%28858%29%20693%206227>
8766 Betelgeuse Way, San Diego, CA 92126
www.durlandproductions.com
From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Westmicro
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 7:47 PM
To: mikebecker at cox.net; edducati at mac.com; sdpanteras at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Please pass all this on to Don.
Maybe this will make him realize what he has done here, and he will make it
right.
Reputation and doing the right thing is Everything in Business.
Dave Nuding
Western Micrographics & Imaging Systems
Houston / San Diego
858-722-5500<tel:858-722-5500>
http://www.westernmicrographics.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Becker <mikebecker at cox.net>
To: 'Ed Mendez' <edducati at mac.com>; 'San Diego Panteras' <sdpanteras at googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 8:35 pm
Subject: RE: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Holy crap, that's terrible Ed. So sorry to hear this. I don't understand,
I've never heard a bad thing about Don. I've also never had any work done
by him, but the general perception is that his work speaks for itself. I
can't imagine what his reasoning is. I don't have any kind of relationship
with him, so I don't really feel I could speak to him. Maybe something just
got into him and he needs time to realize the pickle he's put you in. Maybe
he's got some other troubles and sort of reached a breaking point or
something like that. Perhaps he'll come around and somehow make good on it.
I would hold off on slinging mud until all options for reconciliation are
exhausted.
Hang in there,
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: sdpanteras at googlegroups.com [mailto:sdpanteras at googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ed Mendez
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:39 PM
To: San Diego Panteras
Subject: [SDP] Hi Everyone please read
Hi all,
Made it to New Zealand and started work. Still a bit jet lagged but that is
nothing compared to how I feel from what Don Byars did to me before I left.
After paying Don $36,000 in cash and up front and paying my final invoiced
bill on Jan. 22nd. There were some electrical issues from the Pantera
Electronics parts I bought. There were two blown up boards, Pantera not
charging, and several other issues. This was NOT from Pantera Electronics
however, it was from Don not following the simple directions and hooking
things up wrong. So he spent the next four days trying to sort out the
issues. On the 28th he called me and said come and get this car out of my
shop! I asked if it was done, he said no, and it is not running either. He
verbally told me on the 22nd that it would be about $2000 more and he would
have it all finished including the seats bolted in on the seat rails, the
seat belts, and all be working. What he told me on the phone shocked me. He
said that I now owed him an additional $6300 and that knowing I was leaving,
he wanted cash, and would not release the car until I paid him in full!
I have always paid him up front, and in advance. Since I was leaving the
country, he gave me no choice, I had to come up with cash. He delivered the
car to me, backed it out of his trailer still hooked to the cable, I then
paid him in full and he refused to unhook the car until I signed a waiver
releasing him of any work related defects!!!
He treated me like a criminal and EXTORTED $6000 from me!
Now the car is sitting in Vista, Ca. The seats were not bolted in, the belts
were not done, seat rails, scratches in my paint under the hood, he left my
brand new air compressor disconnected and exposed to air. The car runs but
electrically a mess, far from being done, and far from being in a state of
condition for the money I paid him.
Don Byars is a thief to the Nth degree! And he did all this in front of
whom? The new President of POCA!
Just wondering if he is completely stupid!? I just wonder what I did, I was
utterly insulted. What did I do to deserve this? His wife told me Don was
mad because I did not let him finish the car!!!??? I paid him a total of
$42,000. He knew the drop dead date months before I was leaving. Even John Haas
of Pantera Electronics offered to help, Don did not call him once!!! I asked
John Haas to call him.
At this point my car is in the care of John Buckman, if anyone can please
offer any assistance, I have to get it in a somewhat completed state to ship
overseas.
Please spread the word. If I were there I could do something, all I have is
you guys to spread the word about what he did to me.
Kind regards,
Ed Mendez
Sent from my iPad
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Message: 33
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 11:47:03 -0600
From: Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
To: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
Cc: POCA list <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Brian Hill's 410 cubic inch cast iron
Cleveland on the dyno
Message-ID:
<CACpDPGAYXnj-evV4tYG1B0CGxDnVhjUKcY0qeuoo5M0kBbDO-w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
That's good stuff, Dan.
I don't feel too bad... :-)
I got 544 with my stock 4V iron heads (that weren't ported) and 393ci.
I suppose I should qualify it further... Open GTS headers and EFI.
17 more cubic inches and 16 more HP for Brian.
Really good stuff!
Thanks for continuing this! I love these reports.
Regards,
Kirby
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Daniel C Jones
<daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>wrote:
> The odometer on Brian Hill's 1971 Pantera showed 60K miles but its 351
> Cleveland was burning some oil. The history of the engine was unknown
> and Brian wanted more power anyway so it was decided to build a
> stroker Cleveland. Dis-assembly revealed the block had already been
> bored 0.030" but had a few thousandths of wear so was honed to a
> 4.040" bore. A Scat stroker kit with Probe forged dished pistons, 6"
> rods and a forged steel 4" stroke crank was used to provide 10:1
> compression and a displacement of 410 cubic inches. The distributor,
> carb, water pump, alternator were new and the McLeod flywheel had been
> recently resurfaced so those parts were re-used, along with the
> Pantera 10 quart oil pan.
>
> Most of the stroker Clevelands we've done have been with aluminum
> heads (Ford Motorsport A3 high ports, Ford Motorsport C302B high
> ports, Brodix BF300 high ports, CHI 3V and 4V, TFS 2V, etc.) but this
> one was the first in a long time that retained the 1970's era OEM cast
> iron 4V heads. The heads were rebuilt years ago with replaceable
> bronze guides and had been milled and drilled for screw-in studs and
> guide plates. Dave McLain machined the spring pockets for double
> springs, installed single groove valves, did a valve job and
> resurfaced the heads. They looked pretty good so no additional
> porting work was done. On the SuperFlow bench, they flowed:
>
> Lift Intake Exhaust
> Inch CFM CFM
> 0.025 13.90 10.90
> 0.050 33.10 26.50
> 0.100 66.40 52.20
> 0.200 140.20 97.90
> 0.300 201.20 129.90
> 0.400 251.40 152.30
> 0.500 290.90 165.50
> 0.600 313.90 172.70
> 0.700 301.70 173.30
> 0.800 303.20 174.70
>
> I used Dynomation to design the cam, starting with the simulation and
> dyno results of the 408C we did for Glen Hartog's Pantera. That
> engine also used cast iron closed chamber 4V heads but those had some
> short-side radius work and flowed a bit better (322 CFM @ 0.6").
> Compared to the dyno data from Glen's engine, the latest version of
> Dynomation was under-predicting the RPM of the HP peak so I biased my
> goal to make sure the cam would peak at 6000 RPM, providing the best
> average HP between 4000 and a 6500 RPM shift point. That works well
> for a street driven Pantera with stock gearing and still pulls strong
> at lower RPM. Rather than use the Bullet lobes we'd used in the past,
> Dave worked with Steve Demos and Mike Ingram to design a couple new
> hydraulic roller lobes. The lobes are based upon the Ford base
> circle, not the smaller Chevy base circle of the previous Bullet lobes
> we've used. The resulting Demos hydraulic roller cam was checked using
> Cam Analyzer v4.0 and proved to be very close to the requested specs:
>
> Cam # DM238HR/DM242HR, Grind 0001
> 279.3/282.8 advertised duration
> 239.6/242.6 degrees duration @ 0.050"
> 159.8/162.4 degrees duration @ 0.200"
> 0.620"/0.621" intake/exhaust lift (with 1.73:1 rocker arms)
> 109 degrees LSA
> 108 degres ICL
>
> Seat Timing
> Intake Open 28.8 BTDC
> Intake Close 70.5 ABDC
> Exhaust Close 33.8 ATDC
> Exhaust Open 69.7 BBDC
>
> 0.050" timing
> Intake Open 10.8 BTDC
> Intake Close 48.8 ABDC
> Exhaust Close 11.9 ATDC
> Exhaust Open 50.7 BBDC
>
> PBM/Morel link bar hydraulic roller lifters were used and the roller
> rockers from the original engine were retained. Previously, we had
> tested a bunch of intake manifolds on Mike Drew's 408C with CHI 4V
> aluminum heads. The best of the lot were the Edelbrock Scorpion,
> Holley Strip Dominator and a ported Blue Thunder dual plane. The
> Edelbrock Scorpion is no longer in production but I found a good used
> one so we went with it. Looking much like an Edebrock Torker, the
> Scorpion is taller with a level carb pad (nice to have in the Pantera
> which has a level mounted engine and transaxle). Dave did a lot of
> work on the entry radius of the ports in Scorpion's plenum. On the
> dyno, best power was made with a 1" open spacer and best torque was
> with a 1" HVH spacer it only dropped a few horsepower and a few lbs-ft
> of torque without a spacer. Brian supplied a Holley 750 carburetor
> (p/n 80528) which I thought might be on the small side for the stroker
> engine but watching the manifold vacuum during the pulls showed no
> significant depression so it looks like it's adequate for the 6000 RPM
> 410C. It seems snappy and idles clean. The engine liked 30 degrees
> for total timing. Brian will be using a stainless Wilkinson Pantera
> exhaust system which performed well in previous testing but the engine
> was tested with the following exhaust on the dyno:
>
> Hooker 351C Competition headers (part number HOK-6920HKR)
> 1 3/4" diameter by 27" long primaries
> 3" diameter by 8" long collector
> 12 inch long collector extensions
> 3" inlet/outlet Magnaflow mufflers
>
> Based upon the simulation results, I thought we'd hit 500 HP at 6000
> RPM but the engine really surprised us by making 560 horsepower at
> 6050 RPM and 526 lbs-ft at 4600 RPM through the dyno exhaust. Not too
> shabby for a street cam and factory iron Cleveland heads. Seems the
> big port heads really like the extra cubes. Previous testing has
> shown the 4V heads also respond to a shorter exhaust rocker ratio and
> to exhaust port stuffers (MPG Stingers). It would have been
> interesting to see if we could squeeze out a few more ponies but I
> think Brian will be pleased with the results. He kindly offered to
> let me use his engine to do back-to-back testing between his iron
> closed chamber 4V heads and a set of my Ford Motorsport aluminum high
> ports (ported C302Bs) but with the very cold weather this winter
> Dave's running a bit behind on the dyno so that testing will have to
> wait. The dyno rolls outside the shop and hooks up to an external
> water source so it needs to be above freezing weather which the latest
> forecast says won't happen in the next week. We'll pick back up with
> testing the C302B heads on my 407 Fontana engine in the spring. FWIW,
> the Dynomation simulation predicts another 70 HP for my ported C302B
> heads and intake.
>
> Dan Jones
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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Message: 34
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 13:53:14 -0500 (EST)
From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
To: detomaso at POCA.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Great pics of Gr3 car at Le Mans 1975....
Message-ID: <2f87d.4e240c44.4025341a at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
....can be seen here:
http://www.forum-auto.com/sport-auto/photo-sport-auto/sujet378170.htm
This is #5855, before it was converted over to nominal Gr4 specification.
Mike
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Message: 35
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 13:53:35 -0500 (EST)
From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
To: detomaso at POCA.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] UK vintage race Pantera video
Message-ID: <2f8e2.3957385c.4025342f at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In a message dated 2/6/14 2 34 29, writes:
> Video of a guy named Terry Gisborne, who has a highly modified Pantera
> that he races in some sort of vintage class in England.
>
>>>Here is an e-mail I just got from Terry:
Mike,
I'm having trouble sending mail from my personal e-mail account, so I'm
using my business account.
I don't have the VIN number to hand, I'll find it & let you know. The wheel
arches (19" wheels) where custom made, as were the side skirts and general
all over body blending & shaping. The carbon splitter, rear wing, vents,
race seat & interior were designed & built by Reverie Carbon Products. The
gearbox was rebuilt & modified by MDV & Phil Peacock; they, also, fabricated a
limited slip differential (similar to the one they made for the Audi Le Mans
team). The engine was built & modified by MDV; it is due to be further
modified by Field Motorsport. The suspension is fully adjustable. The dampers
are
Ohlins 3 way. The brakes are AP racing. Total rewire by DC electrics. so
many modifications it is as far away from a standard Pantera as it it possible
to get.
As for parts: the rear right suspension upright was damaged in the crash,
so I need another one. I probably won't use a standard Pantera part (even if
I could find one), I'll probably have a pair fabricated with bigger (wider)
bearings.
Currently, the car is undergoing body repairs; when they are finished I
will have moulds taken of the entire body (something I should have done long
ago), so I can easily replace body panels in future. When the bodyworks are
completed, the suspension damage will be dealt with. Hopefully, it will all be
completed before June, so I can race at the Brands Hatch Speedfest on 7 & 8
June.
here is a link to another You Tube clip from the Brands Hatch Speedfest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWjbMyO5L70
Regards
Terry
=
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Message: 36
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 13:53:37 -0500 (EST)
From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
To: grayjim at att.net, detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Screws for center console
Message-ID: <2f8eb.6dd26490.40253431 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
In a message dated 2/6/14 7 02 47, grayjim at att.net writes:
> Seeing the nice shiny thumbscrews that hold in the center console on
> 71-72 models advertised, I wondered:? Will these work on the later 73-74 cars
> that have plain old phillips-head screws?
> ?
> Jim "just wondering" Gray?
>
>
>>>Answer--yes, because the thread pitch is the same.
The plastic panel on the later cars is countersunk, intended for a
flat-head screw. The mating surface of the early-style bolts will not match up
to
the surface on the panel, but you aren't torquing it to death so it doesn't
really matter.
Mike
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