[DeTomaso] FLUIDYNE RADIATOR STORY

Thu Feb 6 08:46:52 EST 2014

I know I should let this thread quiet down but I remembered something
today with head gasket failures.  On my just broken in 351W (375ci
stroked motor) with Edelbrock aluminum heads, ARP studs and Isky cam,
I had a ton of power.  I went to the dyno and t seemed to run fine but
I only got 275HP at the wheels.  Very strange.  I took it home and the
drive back seemed uneventful and I still felt like I had a lot of
torque.

Well, I had oil in my radiator so I took the heads off.  It turned out
that at peak power the heads were lifting and gasses, oil and coolant
was getting past my Victor Reinz head gaskets.

I had never retorqued my heads.

So I replaced the gaskets, torqued my heads down and now it works great.

So it *is* possible for a head gasket leak to heal itself, but it
won't last long.

sean

On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 2:28 PM,  <LEVITT1946 at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> Many of you go thru high heat issues with the Pantera.
>
> When I purchased my car in 2008 the previous owner told me if I was in
> traffic to just pull over . I was determined to cure this car from high heat
> exposure.
>
> The first things I attached on the car was the following:
>
> Replaced Water Pump with Hi Flow Water Pump
> Replaced Thermostat ( many times)
> Replaced the old brass radiator with an new Aluminum  radiator from Summit.
> Replaced Meriah fans with new sucker fans
> Replaced antifreeze and purged air from system  (many times)
> Did complete Tune Up. ( many times)
>
> Now it was time for the big test. I got on the highway and the car was
> holding temp at a steady 180. The minute I got off the highway the temp
> started rising to the point of boil over. I could hear my pressure bottle
> perculating.
>
> This went on for years. I drove the car across the USA in the Gumball
> Rally.As long as the car was moving I knew we would be ok and we made it
> from Santa Monica California to Miami Beach safely.
>
> The car was still running hot so I tracked down an NOS Pressure tank and
> overflow bottle from a place in Modena Italy. I thought maybe there was
> something wrong with my pressure and overflow bottles.
>
> My local mechanic replaced the pressure and overflow bottles and the car
> started to overheat immediately. The only part to look at now was the
> FLUIDYNE Radiator that I had replaced 4 years ago when I purchased the car.
>
> We let the car cool a little and then restarted the car. My mechanic said he
> was going to run water over the front of the radiator when I started the
> car. I was in the car while it was running to see if the water temp would
> lower as he ran the hose on the front of the FLUIDYNE radiator. The temp was
> lowering! . Then he said shut the car. My Mechanic said that since I had
> sucker fans my car should have been sprayed with water when he ran the water
> on the front of the radiator. Instead the car was DRY . This meant that the
> radiator was now allowing the water to flow through and thus no air could
> flow through either.
>
> Next step was to reverse the fans to blow out the front of the car and leave
> it idling in place . The car ran at a steady 180 for 30 minutes and the temp
> did not rise. This told us that the radiator was fault and only flowed ONE
> WAY .
>
> I could not believe that the radiator could be faulty. I drove home and
> cleaned the radiator with a pressure washer and ruined every fin on the
> radiator.
>
> Then I contacted the owner of Fluidyne. I explained what we had done and in
> summary we felt we had a one way radiator that could only flow air one way .
> I also admitted that I had pressure washed the radiator and ruined the
> outside fins. Hard to believe but TRUE.
> He asked me to send the radiator to him and if they faund any defect in
> workmanship he would replace the radiator at no charge.   He came up with
> every excuse possible. He cut the radiator in half to look at the internals
> of the radiator.
>
> Here is FLUIDYNES actual response:
>
> Good Morning Robert,
>
>
>
> Further to our investigation:
>
> ·         Your radiator was inspected upon receipt and found to be 'bloated'
> ... swollen in the middle of the core, consistent with symptoms of
> over-pressurization.
>
> ·         The fans were tested while installed on the core and operation was
> verified.  They seemed to pull a reasonable amount of air.
>
> ·         The fans were then removed and inspected.  The fans are "pusher"
> fans... not "puller" fans as you were told.  [See pic 3 to see arrow markings]
>
> o   They most likely were wired to work as  "pullers" but the performance
> would be significantly hampered considering the pitch of the blade is
> backwards
>
> ·         The Inlet/Outlet water tank was removed to inspect the core.
> Debris was found near the top & bottom [see pic 1 and 2] which had plugged
> several tubes.
>
> o   This is not a significant blockage but we noted that foreign debris was
> indeed inside the core.
>
> ·         The Return water tank was then removed [pic 4] which showed a
> significant amount of engine oil has passed thru the core.
>
> o   We suspect this oil was introduced to the radiator by failure of a
> cylinder head gasket.
>
> o   I appears the oil remained in the core for some time as it would not
> wipe off.
>
> o   We also assume this failure created the high pressure event that caused
> the core to be over-pressurized.
>
> ·         The Core shows no internal structural damage and the outside
> structure [air fin] was heavily damaged as you know and has rendered the
> core useless.
>
>
>
> Conclusion:
>
> The outside air fin has sustained significant damage and 90% of the louvers
> have been bent shut in both directions.  The radiator core appears to be
> sound.  We noted no failures of our Materials or Workmanship nor evidence of
> Electrolysis erosion.  The over-pressurization event, while it likely
> created the 'bloated' shape of the unit, does not appear to have affected
> the core's performance.
>
>
>
> The only anomaly we discovered was the fact that as installed, the pusher
> fans were likely wired to run backwards as puller fans.  This creates
> significant turbulence in and around the fan housing and would reduce
> performance by as much as 50%
>
>
>
> Next Steps:
>
> As I mentioned, we have initiated production of a replacement radiator [with
> the new 5-row Pantera core] for you.  Per your instructions, we will install
> your fan temp sensors on the new core.  You have also asked us to install
> your fans but in light of the problems noted here, I believe you may want to
> consider replacing these units.  We can install new Spal units [the only
> brand I handle] if you prefer and I also suggest we install a Zinc Anode in
> the drain bung to protect against Electrolysis in the future.
>
> All of FLUIDYNES excuses and blaming the engine had cylinder head gasket
> leaks was a bunch of BS. I ended up paying for the new radiator and fans
> because I had no choice . Fluidyne should have stood behind their product
> but they DID NOT.
>
> We installed the new radiator on the car as well as two lights on the dash
> that would tell me when each fan was on and off. This way I knew the fans
> were working.
>
> We let the car run for  a solid hour at the shop and the car never rose over
> 180 degrees. The high heat problem that existed for years was finally gone.
> My mechanic said that once I hit the highway the fans would actually shut
> off.
>
> On the way home from the shop both fans were RUNNING as they should. I
> entered the highway and in five minutes one fan shut down and then the
> other. I now had total confidence in the car.
>
> I guess the cylinder head gasket leaks that Fluidyne said my engine had,
> repaired itself .  BS
>
> Just thought you guys should know.
>
> Best ,
>
> Bob Levitt
>
>
>
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-- 
Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso