[DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain

michael at michaelshortt.com michael at michaelshortt.com
Mon Dec 15 21:45:42 EST 2014


I know a guy that owns eight (8) Cobra Helicopters, used for personal toys
and sometime film work.  They are a tinker toys compared to an Apache,
flying cost of one is in the same range per hour as a fighter jet. Lots of
them here flying overhead on a daily basis, I do not believe that any
municipal department could afford to maintain one, much less several.

Michael Shortt
On Dec 15, 2014 9:35 PM, "Will Kooiman" <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:

>    The article was from 2011, and since we haven't heard any reports of
>    tanks blowing up in Florida, I'd say they aren't being used.
>
>    The article was so old, I couldn't find any fact check information on
>    it.
>
>    If you've ever seen an Apache, you'd realize just how ridiculous this
>    story is.  An Apache is a tank killer, and it is a super bad at ss one at
>    that.  It has no place in civilian use.
>
>    If the evidence is real (8 helicopters at $18M each), then maybe it is
>    a coverup for something else - like embezzlement.  That makes a lot
>    more sense than civilian attack helicopters.
>
>    From: Boyd Casey <[1]boyd411 at gmail.com>
>    Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:29 AM
>    To: Will Kooiman <[2]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
>    Cc: Mike Drew <[3]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, "[4]detomaso at poca.com"
>    <[5]detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch <[6]fresnofinches at aol.com>
>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
>
>    The article said they received 8 Apaches which suggest to me that
>    their plans are for more then a "static display".
>    As I pointed out in my post I have no verification of this information
>    so we don't know if it is factual or not.
>    Boyd
>
>    On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Will Kooiman
>    <[7]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>      I don(c)oet think they get military surplus because they need it.
>      They accept the surplus because the military wants to get rid of
>      their
>      surplus.
>      Now, whether they accepted an Apache or not, I rather doubt it.
>      Aircraft
>      are expensive to maintain.  They wouldn(c)oet accept an Apache
>      unless they
>      planned on turning it into a non-functioning display.  That(c)oes
>      more likely
>      Internet garbage.
>      On 12/14/14, 1:13 PM, "Boyd Casey" <[8]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>      >   The current reality makes George Orwell's "1984" look like a
>      fairy
>      >   tale, and I'm afraid it's only going to get worse. I'm all for
>      "the
>      >   rule of law" andA  "Law and Order" but America was never
>      supposed to be
>      >   about living in a police state. I recently read that a municipal
>      police
>      >   department obtained some surplus Apache helicopters from the
>      D.O.D.,(
>      >   Knowing you can't take what you read as fact ,) it still begs
>      the
>      >   question What does a police department in America need with
>      Apache
>      >   helicopters designed to take out tanks ( hellfire missiles and
>      Gatling
>      >   cannon that fire depleted uranium armor piercing shells?) What
>      are they
>      >   planning for or what do they expect? The prospects of what's
>      around the
>      >   corner are very frightening. The continued push to upscale the
>      armament
>      >   levels of the police and the attemptA  to disarm the public
>      makes theA
>      >   2nd amendment fringe groups seem like they are not as far out on
>      the
>      >   fringe as the media attempts to portray.
>      >   I feel safe in saying this is not what the members of my family
>      who
>      >   dedicated large parts of their lives (or gave their lives) had
>      in mind
>      >   nor do I suspect did you when you put on the uniform.
>      >   Hugh
>      >
>      >   On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Mike Drew
>      <[1][9]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
>      >   wrote:
>      >
>      >     Boyd,
>      >     All it would take would be one public-spirited citizen with a
>      big
>      >     shotgun or rifle to put those speed cameras right and then all
>      would
>      >     be good in your corner of the world. :)
>      >     England is especially fond of speed cameras. For awhile,
>      charitable
>      >     people were hanging old tires from the camera boxes, pouring
>      gas
>      >     into them and then setting them on fire. While these Robin
>      Hoods
>      >     were celebrated by the people, the government didn't have much
>      of a
>      >     sense of humor about it, and a few people got very long prison
>      >     sentences (5-10 yrs maybe?) after the cops set up cameras to
>      look AT
>      >     the cameras and used those to track down the rebels. Once word
>      got
>      >     out about that, the practice pretty much died out....
>      >     Mike
>      >     Sent from my iPhone
>      >     On Dec 14, 2014, at 11:18, Boyd Casey
>      <[2][10]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>      >     >A  A The benefit (to the police) of the radar gun is it's
>      "instant
>      >     on" which
>      >     >A  A makes a radar detector all but useless. (unless as Larry
>      said
>      >     you are
>      >     >A  A fortunate enough to have the police try to get someone
>      in
>      >     front of you
>      >     >A  A and your detector picks up the residual signal. Other
>      wise by
>      >     the time
>      >     >A  A you hear the warning you have already been clocked!
>      >     >A  A A A A A A AA  On a side note there has been a recent
>      >     development here on
>      >     >A  A long Island concerning photo radar. Apparently the
>      authorities
>      >     >A  A installed a bunch of photo radar traps in the area while
>      I was
>      >     in the
>      >     >A  A hospital.They neglected to put up any warning signs.
>      With in a
>      >     two
>      >     >A  A weeks of my release from the hospital I got to school
>      zone
>      >     tickets 31
>      >     >A  A in a 20 and 33 in a 20 $80 each (no points or any other
>      >     penalty just
>      >     >A  A cash).
>      >     >A  A The area where I got nailed is at the same high school I
>      >     graduated from
>      >     >A  A and it has a huge piece of property with several acres
>      >     containing a
>      >     >A  A baseball diamond , a football field (with stands) a
>      soccer
>      >     field , it's
>      >     >A  A huge! The school zone signs don't encompass the entire
>      >     property. The
>      >     >A  A end around a 1/4 of a mile past the intersection near
>      the
>      >     school's main
>      >     >A  A entrance. The road that runs along the athletic fields
>      (that
>      >     has no
>      >     >A  A intersections and people generally drive around 40 mph)
>      is
>      >     where they
>      >     >A  A installed to Photo radar array. This is the spot where
>      they
>      >     got me.
>      >     >A  A Apparently this has happened all over the county and the
>      >     public has
>      >     >A  A freaked out. So last week they announced that signs
>      would be
>      >     going up
>      >     >A  A and anybody that was ticketed before the signage was in
>      place
>      >     will be
>      >     >A  A getting their tickets rescinded and their fines
>      refunded. So
>      >     that was
>      >     >A  A good news for me!
>      >     >A  A Boyd
>      >     >
>      >     >A  A On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Larry Finch via
>      DeTomaso
>      >     >A  A <[1][3][11]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>      >     >
>      >     >A  A  A AA  A Tomas wrote -
>      >     >A  A  A I know that the camera boxes use radar but does
>      anyone use
>      >     >A  A  A manually operated radar anymore? I thought they had
>      all
>      >     changed to
>      >     >A  A  A laser guns.
>      >     >A  A  A -----
>      >     >A  A  A Here in CA, the CHP uses radar (Ka band) and laser.
>      >     >A  A  A As I understand it, laser must be from a stationary
>      >     position and
>      >     >A  A  A very close to a
>      >     >A  A  A A straight (not from an angle) shot at the target.
>      >
>      >   >A  A  A I've seen them hiding on highway overpasses to get that
>      >   position.
>      >   >A  A  A Radar now all appears to be instant-on, though some
>      officers
>      >   drive
>      >   >A  A  A with it alway
>      >   >A  A  A s on.
>      >   >A  A  A Radar is not as picky about the aim of the signal, and
>      works
>      >   just
>      >   >A  A  A fine from a mo
>      >   >A  A  A ving vehicle.
>      >   >A  A  A With my Valentine, I find that as long as there is an
>      >   >A  A  A ahead-of-me-rabbit to moti
>      >   >A  A  A vate a Chipie to hit his instant-on, the scatter from
>      that
>      >   radar
>      >   >A  A  A burst
>      >   >A  A  A will trip my detector up to over two miles ahead.
>      >   >A  A  A Same benefit from a radar sitiuated behind you, and
>      with the
>      >   >A  A  A Valentine you'll kn
>      >   >A  A  A ow the direction to look.
>      >   >A  A  A Headed up the 101 years ago to a PCNC meeting, moving
>      at a
>      >   'brisk'
>      >   >A  A  A rate, the rea
>      >   >A  A  A r arrows lit up with plenty of time
>      >   >A  A  A to slow down and thus frustrate the CHP motorcycle
>      officer who
>      >   paced
>      >   >A  A  A in my RH bl
>      >   >A  A  A ind spot for several miles until he finally gave up
>      >   >A  A  A and moved ahead of me.
>      >   >A  A  A Cat and mouse at its finest. :-)
>      >   >A  A  A YMMV
>      >   >A  A  A Larry - "Why no, officer, I don't know why you pulled
>      me over,
>      >   >A  A  A Perhaps you thoug
>      >   >A  A  A ht I had some donuts?"
>      >   >A  A  A _______________________________________________
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>      >
>      >     >A  A  A [2][4][12]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      >     >A  A  A
>      [3][5][13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>      >     >
>      >     > References
>      >     >
>      >     >A  A 1. [14]mailto:[6][15]detomaso at poca.com
>      >     >A  A 2. [16]mailto:[7][17]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      >     >A  A 3.
>      [8][18]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>      >
>      >   > _______________________________________________
>      >   >
>      >   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>      >
>      >References
>      >
>      >   1. mailto:[21]MikeLDrew at aol.com
>      >   2. mailto:[22]boyd411 at gmail.com
>      >   3. mailto:[23]detomaso at poca.com
>      >   4. mailto:[24]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      >   5. [25]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>      >   6. mailto:[26]detomaso at poca.com
>      >   7. mailto:[27]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      >   8. [28]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>      >   9. mailto:[29]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      >  10. [30]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
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>    >
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>    >[31]DeTomaso at poca.com
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>
> References
>
>    1. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>    2. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
>    3. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>    4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>    5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>    6. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
>    7. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
>    8. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>    9. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>   10. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>   11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   14. mailto:[6]
>   15. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   16. mailto:[7]
>   17. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   18. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   19. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   20. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   21. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>   22. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>   23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   24. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   25. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   26. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   29. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   30. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
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-------------- next part --------------
   I know a guy that owns eight (8) Cobra Helicopters, used for personal
   toys and sometime film work.A  They are a tinker toys compared to an
   Apache, flying cost of one is in the same range per hour as a fighter
   jet. Lots of them here flying overhead on a daily basis, I do not
   believe that any municipal department could afford to maintain one,
   much less several.

   Michael Shortt

   On Dec 15, 2014 9:35 PM, "Will Kooiman" <[1]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
   wrote:

     A  A The article was from 2011, and since we haven't heard any
     reports of
     A  A tanks blowing up in Florida, I'd say they aren't being used.
     A  A The article was so old, I couldn't find any fact check
     information on
     A  A it.
     A  A If you've ever seen an Apache, you'd realize just how
     ridiculous this
     A  A story is.A  An Apache is a tank killer, and it is a super
     bad at ss one at
     A  A that.A  It has no place in civilian use.
     A  A If the evidence is real (8 helicopters at $18M each), then
     maybe it is
     A  A a coverup for something else - like embezzlement.A  That makes
     a lot
     A  A more sense than civilian attack helicopters.
     A  A From: Boyd Casey <[1][2]boyd411 at gmail.com>
     A  A Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:29 AM
     A  A To: Will Kooiman <[2][3]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
     A  A Cc: Mike Drew <[3][4]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
     "[4][5]detomaso at poca.com"
     A  A <[5][6]detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch
     <[6][7]fresnofinches at aol.com>
     A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
     A  A The article said they received 8 Apaches which suggest to me
     that
     A  A their plans are for more then a "static display".
     A  A As I pointed out in my post I have no verification of this
     information
     A  A so we don't know if it is factual or not.
     A  A Boyd
     A  A On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Will Kooiman
     A  A <[7][8]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
     A  A  A I don(c)oet think they get military surplus because they
     need it.
     A  A  A They accept the surplus because the military wants to get
     rid of
     A  A  A their
     A  A  A surplus.
     A  A  A Now, whether they accepted an Apache or not, I rather doubt
     it.
     A  A  A Aircraft
     A  A  A are expensive to maintain.A  They wouldn(c)oet accept an
     Apache
     A  A  A unless they
     A  A  A planned on turning it into a non-functioning display.A
     That(c)oes
     A  A  A more likely
     A  A  A Internet garbage.
     A  A  A On 12/14/14, 1:13 PM, "Boyd Casey" <[8][9]boyd411 at gmail.com>
     wrote:
     A  A  A >A  A The current reality makes George Orwell's "1984" look
     like a
     A  A  A fairy
     A  A  A >A  A tale, and I'm afraid it's only going to get worse. I'm
     all for
     A  A  A "the
     A  A  A >A  A rule of law" andAA  "Law and Order" but America was
     never
     A  A  A supposed to be
     A  A  A >A  A about living in a police state. I recently read that a
     municipal
     A  A  A police
     A  A  A >A  A department obtained some surplus Apache helicopters
     from the
     A  A  A D.O.D.,(
     A  A  A >A  A Knowing you can't take what you read as fact ,) it
     still begs
     A  A  A the
     A  A  A >A  A question What does a police department in America need
     with
     A  A  A Apache
     A  A  A >A  A helicopters designed to take out tanks ( hellfire
     missiles and
     A  A  A Gatling
     A  A  A >A  A cannon that fire depleted uranium armor piercing
     shells?) What
     A  A  A are they
     A  A  A >A  A planning for or what do they expect? The prospects of
     what's
     A  A  A around the
     A  A  A >A  A corner are very frightening. The continued push to
     upscale the
     A  A  A armament
     A  A  A >A  A levels of the police and the attemptAA  to disarm the
     public
     A  A  A makes theA
     A  A  A >A  A 2nd amendment fringe groups seem like they are not as
     far out on
     A  A  A the
     A  A  A >A  A fringe as the media attempts to portray.
     A  A  A >A  A I feel safe in saying this is not what the members of
     my family
     A  A  A who
     A  A  A >A  A dedicated large parts of their lives (or gave their
     lives) had
     A  A  A in mind
     A  A  A >A  A nor do I suspect did you when you put on the uniform.
     A  A  A >A  A Hugh
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >A  A On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Mike Drew
     A  A  A <[1][9][10]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
     A  A  A >A  A wrote:
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >A  A  A Boyd,
     A  A  A >A  A  A All it would take would be one public-spirited
     citizen with a
     A  A  A big
     A  A  A >A  A  A shotgun or rifle to put those speed cameras right
     and then all
     A  A  A would
     A  A  A >A  A  A be good in your corner of the world. :)
     A  A  A >A  A  A England is especially fond of speed cameras. For
     awhile,
     A  A  A charitable
     A  A  A >A  A  A people were hanging old tires from the camera
     boxes, pouring
     A  A  A gas
     A  A  A >A  A  A into them and then setting them on fire. While
     these Robin
     A  A  A Hoods
     A  A  A >A  A  A were celebrated by the people, the government
     didn't have much
     A  A  A of a
     A  A  A >A  A  A sense of humor about it, and a few people got very
     long prison
     A  A  A >A  A  A sentences (5-10 yrs maybe?) after the cops set up
     cameras to
     A  A  A look AT
     A  A  A >A  A  A the cameras and used those to track down the
     rebels. Once word
     A  A  A got
     A  A  A >A  A  A out about that, the practice pretty much died
     out....
     A  A  A >A  A  A Mike
     A  A  A >A  A  A Sent from my iPhone
     A  A  A >A  A  A On Dec 14, 2014, at 11:18, Boyd Casey
     A  A  A <[2][10][11]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A The benefit (to the police) of the radar gun
     is it's
     A  A  A "instant
     A  A  A >A  A  A on" which
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A makes a radar detector all but useless.
     (unless as Larry
     A  A  A said
     A  A  A >A  A  A you are
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A fortunate enough to have the police try to
     get someone
     A  A  A in
     A  A  A >A  A  A front of you
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A and your detector picks up the residual
     signal. Other
     A  A  A wise by
     A  A  A >A  A  A the time
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A you hear the warning you have already been
     clocked!
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A A A A A A AAA  On a side note there has been
     a recent
     A  A  A >A  A  A development here on
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A long Island concerning photo radar.
     Apparently the
     A  A  A authorities
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A installed a bunch of photo radar traps in
     the area while
     A  A  A I was
     A  A  A >A  A  A in the
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A hospital.They neglected to put up any
     warning signs.
     A  A  A With in a
     A  A  A >A  A  A two
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A weeks of my release from the hospital I got
     to school
     A  A  A zone
     A  A  A >A  A  A tickets 31
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A in a 20 and 33 in a 20 $80 each (no points
     or any other
     A  A  A >A  A  A penalty just
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A cash).
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A The area where I got nailed is at the same
     high school I
     A  A  A >A  A  A graduated from
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A and it has a huge piece of property with
     several acres
     A  A  A >A  A  A containing a
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A baseball diamond , a football field (with
     stands) a
     A  A  A soccer
     A  A  A >A  A  A field , it's
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A huge! The school zone signs don't encompass
     the entire
     A  A  A >A  A  A property. The
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A end around a 1/4 of a mile past the
     intersection near
     A  A  A the
     A  A  A >A  A  A school's main
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A entrance. The road that runs along the
     athletic fields
     A  A  A (that
     A  A  A >A  A  A has no
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A intersections and people generally drive
     around 40 mph)
     A  A  A is
     A  A  A >A  A  A where they
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A installed to Photo radar array. This is the
     spot where
     A  A  A they
     A  A  A >A  A  A got me.
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A Apparently this has happened all over the
     county and the
     A  A  A >A  A  A public has
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A freaked out. So last week they announced
     that signs
     A  A  A would be
     A  A  A >A  A  A going up
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A and anybody that was ticketed before the
     signage was in
     A  A  A place
     A  A  A >A  A  A will be
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A getting their tickets rescinded and their
     fines
     A  A  A refunded. So
     A  A  A >A  A  A that was
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A good news for me!
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A Boyd
     A  A  A >A  A  A >
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Larry Finch
     via
     A  A  A DeTomaso
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A <[1][3][11][12]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
     A  A  A >A  A  A >
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  AA  A AAA  A Tomas wrote -
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  AA  A I know that the camera boxes use radar
     but does
     A  A  A anyone use
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  AA  A manually operated radar anymore? I
     thought they had
     A  A  A all
     A  A  A >A  A  A changed to
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  AA  A laser guns.
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  AA  A -----
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  AA  A Here in CA, the CHP uses radar (Ka band)
     and laser.
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  AA  A As I understand it, laser must be from a
     stationary
     A  A  A >A  A  A position and
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  AA  A very close to a
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  AA  A A straight (not from an angle) shot at
     the target.
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A I've seen them hiding on highway overpasses
     to get that
     A  A  A >A  A position.
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A Radar now all appears to be instant-on,
     though some
     A  A  A officers
     A  A  A >A  A drive
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A with it alway
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A s on.
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A Radar is not as picky about the aim of the
     signal, and
     A  A  A works
     A  A  A >A  A just
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A fine from a mo
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A ving vehicle.
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A With my Valentine, I find that as long as
     there is an
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A ahead-of-me-rabbit to moti
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A vate a Chipie to hit his instant-on, the
     scatter from
     A  A  A that
     A  A  A >A  A radar
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A burst
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A will trip my detector up to over two miles
     ahead.
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A Same benefit from a radar sitiuated behind
     you, and
     A  A  A with the
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A Valentine you'll kn
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A ow the direction to look.
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A Headed up the 101 years ago to a PCNC
     meeting, moving
     A  A  A at a
     A  A  A >A  A 'brisk'
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A rate, the rea
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A r arrows lit up with plenty of time
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A to slow down and thus frustrate the CHP
     motorcycle
     A  A  A officer who
     A  A  A >A  A paced
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A in my RH bl
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A ind spot for several miles until he finally
     gave up
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A and moved ahead of me.
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A Cat and mouse at its finest. :-)
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A YMMV
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A Larry - "Why no, officer, I don't know why
     you pulled
     A  A  A me over,
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A Perhaps you thoug
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A ht I had some donuts?"
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A
     _______________________________________________
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     A  A  A >A  A >AA  AA  A DeTomaso mailing list
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  AA  A [2][4][12][13]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  AA  A
     A  A
     A [3][5][13][14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A >A  A  A >
     A  A  A >A  A  A > References
     A  A  A >A  A  A >
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A 1. [14]mailto:[6][15][15]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A 2. [16]mailto:[7][17][16]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A >A  A  A >AA  A 3.
     A  A
     A [8][18][17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >A  A > _______________________________________________
     A  A  A >A  A >
     A  A  A >A  A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     A  A  A >A  A >
     A  A  A >A  A > DeTomaso mailing list
     A  A  A >A  A > [9][19][18]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A >A  A >
     [10][20][19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >References
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >A  A 1. mailto:[21][20]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     A  A  A >A  A 2. mailto:[22][21]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  A  A >A  A 3. mailto:[23][22]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A >A  A 4. mailto:[24][23]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A >A  A 5.
     [25][24]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A >A  A 6. mailto:[26][25]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A >A  A 7. mailto:[27][26]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A >A  A 8.
     [28][27]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A >A  A 9. mailto:[29][28]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A >A  10.
     [30][29]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A >_______________________________________________
     A  A >
     A  A >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     A  A >
     A  A >DeTomaso mailing list
     A  A >[31][30]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A >[32][31]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     References
     A  A 1. mailto:[32]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  A 2. mailto:[33]will.kooiman at gmail.com
     A  A 3. mailto:[34]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     A  A 4. mailto:[35]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A 5. mailto:[36]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A 6. mailto:[37]fresnofinches at aol.com
     A  A 7. mailto:[38]will.kooiman at gmail.com
     A  A 8. mailto:[39]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  A 9. mailto:[40]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     A  10. mailto:[41]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  11. mailto:[42]detomaso at poca.com
     A  12. mailto:[43]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  13. [44]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  14. mailto:[6]
     A  15. mailto:[45]detomaso at poca.com
     A  16. mailto:[7]
     A  17. mailto:[46]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  18. [47]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  19. mailto:[48]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  20. [49]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  21. mailto:[50]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     A  22. mailto:[51]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  23. mailto:[52]detomaso at poca.com
     A  24. mailto:[53]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  25. [54]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  26. mailto:[55]detomaso at poca.com
     A  27. mailto:[56]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  28. [57]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  29. mailto:[58]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  30. [59]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  31. mailto:[60]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  32. [61]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     _______________________________________________
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References

   1. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
   2. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
   3. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
   4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   7. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
   8. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
   9. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  10. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  11. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  12. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  13. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  15. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  16. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  20. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  21. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  22. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  25. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  26. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  27. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  28. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  29. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  30. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  31. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  32. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  33. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
  34. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  35. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  36. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  37. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
  38. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
  39. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  40. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  41. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  42. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  43. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  44. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  45. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  46. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  47. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  48. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  49. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  50. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  51. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  52. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  53. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  54. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  55. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  56. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  57. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  58. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  59. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  60. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  61. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  62. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  63. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com


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