[DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
michael at michaelshortt.com
michael at michaelshortt.com
Mon Dec 15 21:45:42 EST 2014
I know a guy that owns eight (8) Cobra Helicopters, used for personal toys
and sometime film work. They are a tinker toys compared to an Apache,
flying cost of one is in the same range per hour as a fighter jet. Lots of
them here flying overhead on a daily basis, I do not believe that any
municipal department could afford to maintain one, much less several.
Michael Shortt
On Dec 15, 2014 9:35 PM, "Will Kooiman" <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
> The article was from 2011, and since we haven't heard any reports of
> tanks blowing up in Florida, I'd say they aren't being used.
>
> The article was so old, I couldn't find any fact check information on
> it.
>
> If you've ever seen an Apache, you'd realize just how ridiculous this
> story is. An Apache is a tank killer, and it is a super bad at ss one at
> that. It has no place in civilian use.
>
> If the evidence is real (8 helicopters at $18M each), then maybe it is
> a coverup for something else - like embezzlement. That makes a lot
> more sense than civilian attack helicopters.
>
> From: Boyd Casey <[1]boyd411 at gmail.com>
> Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:29 AM
> To: Will Kooiman <[2]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> Cc: Mike Drew <[3]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, "[4]detomaso at poca.com"
> <[5]detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch <[6]fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
>
> The article said they received 8 Apaches which suggest to me that
> their plans are for more then a "static display".
> As I pointed out in my post I have no verification of this information
> so we don't know if it is factual or not.
> Boyd
>
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Will Kooiman
> <[7]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don(c)oet think they get military surplus because they need it.
> They accept the surplus because the military wants to get rid of
> their
> surplus.
> Now, whether they accepted an Apache or not, I rather doubt it.
> Aircraft
> are expensive to maintain. They wouldn(c)oet accept an Apache
> unless they
> planned on turning it into a non-functioning display. That(c)oes
> more likely
> Internet garbage.
> On 12/14/14, 1:13 PM, "Boyd Casey" <[8]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The current reality makes George Orwell's "1984" look like a
> fairy
> > tale, and I'm afraid it's only going to get worse. I'm all for
> "the
> > rule of law" andA "Law and Order" but America was never
> supposed to be
> > about living in a police state. I recently read that a municipal
> police
> > department obtained some surplus Apache helicopters from the
> D.O.D.,(
> > Knowing you can't take what you read as fact ,) it still begs
> the
> > question What does a police department in America need with
> Apache
> > helicopters designed to take out tanks ( hellfire missiles and
> Gatling
> > cannon that fire depleted uranium armor piercing shells?) What
> are they
> > planning for or what do they expect? The prospects of what's
> around the
> > corner are very frightening. The continued push to upscale the
> armament
> > levels of the police and the attemptA to disarm the public
> makes theA
> > 2nd amendment fringe groups seem like they are not as far out on
> the
> > fringe as the media attempts to portray.
> > I feel safe in saying this is not what the members of my family
> who
> > dedicated large parts of their lives (or gave their lives) had
> in mind
> > nor do I suspect did you when you put on the uniform.
> > Hugh
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Mike Drew
> <[1][9]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Boyd,
> > All it would take would be one public-spirited citizen with a
> big
> > shotgun or rifle to put those speed cameras right and then all
> would
> > be good in your corner of the world. :)
> > England is especially fond of speed cameras. For awhile,
> charitable
> > people were hanging old tires from the camera boxes, pouring
> gas
> > into them and then setting them on fire. While these Robin
> Hoods
> > were celebrated by the people, the government didn't have much
> of a
> > sense of humor about it, and a few people got very long prison
> > sentences (5-10 yrs maybe?) after the cops set up cameras to
> look AT
> > the cameras and used those to track down the rebels. Once word
> got
> > out about that, the practice pretty much died out....
> > Mike
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > On Dec 14, 2014, at 11:18, Boyd Casey
> <[2][10]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >A A The benefit (to the police) of the radar gun is it's
> "instant
> > on" which
> > >A A makes a radar detector all but useless. (unless as Larry
> said
> > you are
> > >A A fortunate enough to have the police try to get someone
> in
> > front of you
> > >A A and your detector picks up the residual signal. Other
> wise by
> > the time
> > >A A you hear the warning you have already been clocked!
> > >A A A A A A A AA On a side note there has been a recent
> > development here on
> > >A A long Island concerning photo radar. Apparently the
> authorities
> > >A A installed a bunch of photo radar traps in the area while
> I was
> > in the
> > >A A hospital.They neglected to put up any warning signs.
> With in a
> > two
> > >A A weeks of my release from the hospital I got to school
> zone
> > tickets 31
> > >A A in a 20 and 33 in a 20 $80 each (no points or any other
> > penalty just
> > >A A cash).
> > >A A The area where I got nailed is at the same high school I
> > graduated from
> > >A A and it has a huge piece of property with several acres
> > containing a
> > >A A baseball diamond , a football field (with stands) a
> soccer
> > field , it's
> > >A A huge! The school zone signs don't encompass the entire
> > property. The
> > >A A end around a 1/4 of a mile past the intersection near
> the
> > school's main
> > >A A entrance. The road that runs along the athletic fields
> (that
> > has no
> > >A A intersections and people generally drive around 40 mph)
> is
> > where they
> > >A A installed to Photo radar array. This is the spot where
> they
> > got me.
> > >A A Apparently this has happened all over the county and the
> > public has
> > >A A freaked out. So last week they announced that signs
> would be
> > going up
> > >A A and anybody that was ticketed before the signage was in
> place
> > will be
> > >A A getting their tickets rescinded and their fines
> refunded. So
> > that was
> > >A A good news for me!
> > >A A Boyd
> > >
> > >A A On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Larry Finch via
> DeTomaso
> > >A A <[1][3][11]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >A A A AA A Tomas wrote -
> > >A A A I know that the camera boxes use radar but does
> anyone use
> > >A A A manually operated radar anymore? I thought they had
> all
> > changed to
> > >A A A laser guns.
> > >A A A -----
> > >A A A Here in CA, the CHP uses radar (Ka band) and laser.
> > >A A A As I understand it, laser must be from a stationary
> > position and
> > >A A A very close to a
> > >A A A A straight (not from an angle) shot at the target.
> >
> > >A A A I've seen them hiding on highway overpasses to get that
> > position.
> > >A A A Radar now all appears to be instant-on, though some
> officers
> > drive
> > >A A A with it alway
> > >A A A s on.
> > >A A A Radar is not as picky about the aim of the signal, and
> works
> > just
> > >A A A fine from a mo
> > >A A A ving vehicle.
> > >A A A With my Valentine, I find that as long as there is an
> > >A A A ahead-of-me-rabbit to moti
> > >A A A vate a Chipie to hit his instant-on, the scatter from
> that
> > radar
> > >A A A burst
> > >A A A will trip my detector up to over two miles ahead.
> > >A A A Same benefit from a radar sitiuated behind you, and
> with the
> > >A A A Valentine you'll kn
> > >A A A ow the direction to look.
> > >A A A Headed up the 101 years ago to a PCNC meeting, moving
> at a
> > 'brisk'
> > >A A A rate, the rea
> > >A A A r arrows lit up with plenty of time
> > >A A A to slow down and thus frustrate the CHP motorcycle
> officer who
> > paced
> > >A A A in my RH bl
> > >A A A ind spot for several miles until he finally gave up
> > >A A A and moved ahead of me.
> > >A A A Cat and mouse at its finest. :-)
> > >A A A YMMV
> > >A A A Larry - "Why no, officer, I don't know why you pulled
> me over,
> > >A A A Perhaps you thoug
> > >A A A ht I had some donuts?"
> > >A A A _______________________________________________
> > >A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > >A A A DeTomaso mailing list
> >
> > >A A A [2][4][12]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > >A A A
> [3][5][13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > >A A 1. [14]mailto:[6][15]detomaso at poca.com
> > >A A 2. [16]mailto:[7][17]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > >A A 3.
> [8][18]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > >
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > [9][19]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > > [10][20]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >References
> >
> > 1. mailto:[21]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > 2. mailto:[22]boyd411 at gmail.com
> > 3. mailto:[23]detomaso at poca.com
> > 4. mailto:[24]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 5. [25]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > 6. mailto:[26]detomaso at poca.com
> > 7. mailto:[27]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 8. [28]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > 9. mailto:[29]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 10. [30]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> >DeTomaso mailing list
> >[31]DeTomaso at poca.com
> >[32]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
> 2. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
> 3. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 6. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
> 7. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
> 8. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
> 9. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 10. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
> 11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 14. mailto:[6]
> 15. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 16. mailto:[7]
> 17. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 18. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 19. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 20. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 21. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 22. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
> 23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 24. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 25. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 26. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 29. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 30. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
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>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
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>
-------------- next part --------------
I know a guy that owns eight (8) Cobra Helicopters, used for personal
toys and sometime film work.A They are a tinker toys compared to an
Apache, flying cost of one is in the same range per hour as a fighter
jet. Lots of them here flying overhead on a daily basis, I do not
believe that any municipal department could afford to maintain one,
much less several.
Michael Shortt
On Dec 15, 2014 9:35 PM, "Will Kooiman" <[1]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
wrote:
A A The article was from 2011, and since we haven't heard any
reports of
A A tanks blowing up in Florida, I'd say they aren't being used.
A A The article was so old, I couldn't find any fact check
information on
A A it.
A A If you've ever seen an Apache, you'd realize just how
ridiculous this
A A story is.A An Apache is a tank killer, and it is a super
bad at ss one at
A A that.A It has no place in civilian use.
A A If the evidence is real (8 helicopters at $18M each), then
maybe it is
A A a coverup for something else - like embezzlement.A That makes
a lot
A A more sense than civilian attack helicopters.
A A From: Boyd Casey <[1][2]boyd411 at gmail.com>
A A Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:29 AM
A A To: Will Kooiman <[2][3]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
A A Cc: Mike Drew <[3][4]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
"[4][5]detomaso at poca.com"
A A <[5][6]detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch
<[6][7]fresnofinches at aol.com>
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
A A The article said they received 8 Apaches which suggest to me
that
A A their plans are for more then a "static display".
A A As I pointed out in my post I have no verification of this
information
A A so we don't know if it is factual or not.
A A Boyd
A A On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Will Kooiman
A A <[7][8]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
A A A I don(c)oet think they get military surplus because they
need it.
A A A They accept the surplus because the military wants to get
rid of
A A A their
A A A surplus.
A A A Now, whether they accepted an Apache or not, I rather doubt
it.
A A A Aircraft
A A A are expensive to maintain.A They wouldn(c)oet accept an
Apache
A A A unless they
A A A planned on turning it into a non-functioning display.A
That(c)oes
A A A more likely
A A A Internet garbage.
A A A On 12/14/14, 1:13 PM, "Boyd Casey" <[8][9]boyd411 at gmail.com>
wrote:
A A A >A A The current reality makes George Orwell's "1984" look
like a
A A A fairy
A A A >A A tale, and I'm afraid it's only going to get worse. I'm
all for
A A A "the
A A A >A A rule of law" andAA "Law and Order" but America was
never
A A A supposed to be
A A A >A A about living in a police state. I recently read that a
municipal
A A A police
A A A >A A department obtained some surplus Apache helicopters
from the
A A A D.O.D.,(
A A A >A A Knowing you can't take what you read as fact ,) it
still begs
A A A the
A A A >A A question What does a police department in America need
with
A A A Apache
A A A >A A helicopters designed to take out tanks ( hellfire
missiles and
A A A Gatling
A A A >A A cannon that fire depleted uranium armor piercing
shells?) What
A A A are they
A A A >A A planning for or what do they expect? The prospects of
what's
A A A around the
A A A >A A corner are very frightening. The continued push to
upscale the
A A A armament
A A A >A A levels of the police and the attemptAA to disarm the
public
A A A makes theA
A A A >A A 2nd amendment fringe groups seem like they are not as
far out on
A A A the
A A A >A A fringe as the media attempts to portray.
A A A >A A I feel safe in saying this is not what the members of
my family
A A A who
A A A >A A dedicated large parts of their lives (or gave their
lives) had
A A A in mind
A A A >A A nor do I suspect did you when you put on the uniform.
A A A >A A Hugh
A A A >
A A A >A A On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Mike Drew
A A A <[1][9][10]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
A A A >A A wrote:
A A A >
A A A >A A A Boyd,
A A A >A A A All it would take would be one public-spirited
citizen with a
A A A big
A A A >A A A shotgun or rifle to put those speed cameras right
and then all
A A A would
A A A >A A A be good in your corner of the world. :)
A A A >A A A England is especially fond of speed cameras. For
awhile,
A A A charitable
A A A >A A A people were hanging old tires from the camera
boxes, pouring
A A A gas
A A A >A A A into them and then setting them on fire. While
these Robin
A A A Hoods
A A A >A A A were celebrated by the people, the government
didn't have much
A A A of a
A A A >A A A sense of humor about it, and a few people got very
long prison
A A A >A A A sentences (5-10 yrs maybe?) after the cops set up
cameras to
A A A look AT
A A A >A A A the cameras and used those to track down the
rebels. Once word
A A A got
A A A >A A A out about that, the practice pretty much died
out....
A A A >A A A Mike
A A A >A A A Sent from my iPhone
A A A >A A A On Dec 14, 2014, at 11:18, Boyd Casey
A A A <[2][10][11]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
A A A >A A A >AA A The benefit (to the police) of the radar gun
is it's
A A A "instant
A A A >A A A on" which
A A A >A A A >AA A makes a radar detector all but useless.
(unless as Larry
A A A said
A A A >A A A you are
A A A >A A A >AA A fortunate enough to have the police try to
get someone
A A A in
A A A >A A A front of you
A A A >A A A >AA A and your detector picks up the residual
signal. Other
A A A wise by
A A A >A A A the time
A A A >A A A >AA A you hear the warning you have already been
clocked!
A A A >A A A >AA A A A A A A AAA On a side note there has been
a recent
A A A >A A A development here on
A A A >A A A >AA A long Island concerning photo radar.
Apparently the
A A A authorities
A A A >A A A >AA A installed a bunch of photo radar traps in
the area while
A A A I was
A A A >A A A in the
A A A >A A A >AA A hospital.They neglected to put up any
warning signs.
A A A With in a
A A A >A A A two
A A A >A A A >AA A weeks of my release from the hospital I got
to school
A A A zone
A A A >A A A tickets 31
A A A >A A A >AA A in a 20 and 33 in a 20 $80 each (no points
or any other
A A A >A A A penalty just
A A A >A A A >AA A cash).
A A A >A A A >AA A The area where I got nailed is at the same
high school I
A A A >A A A graduated from
A A A >A A A >AA A and it has a huge piece of property with
several acres
A A A >A A A containing a
A A A >A A A >AA A baseball diamond , a football field (with
stands) a
A A A soccer
A A A >A A A field , it's
A A A >A A A >AA A huge! The school zone signs don't encompass
the entire
A A A >A A A property. The
A A A >A A A >AA A end around a 1/4 of a mile past the
intersection near
A A A the
A A A >A A A school's main
A A A >A A A >AA A entrance. The road that runs along the
athletic fields
A A A (that
A A A >A A A has no
A A A >A A A >AA A intersections and people generally drive
around 40 mph)
A A A is
A A A >A A A where they
A A A >A A A >AA A installed to Photo radar array. This is the
spot where
A A A they
A A A >A A A got me.
A A A >A A A >AA A Apparently this has happened all over the
county and the
A A A >A A A public has
A A A >A A A >AA A freaked out. So last week they announced
that signs
A A A would be
A A A >A A A going up
A A A >A A A >AA A and anybody that was ticketed before the
signage was in
A A A place
A A A >A A A will be
A A A >A A A >AA A getting their tickets rescinded and their
fines
A A A refunded. So
A A A >A A A that was
A A A >A A A >AA A good news for me!
A A A >A A A >AA A Boyd
A A A >A A A >
A A A >A A A >AA A On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Larry Finch
via
A A A DeTomaso
A A A >A A A >AA A <[1][3][11][12]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
A A A >A A A >
A A A >A A A >AA AA A AAA A Tomas wrote -
A A A >A A A >AA AA A I know that the camera boxes use radar
but does
A A A anyone use
A A A >A A A >AA AA A manually operated radar anymore? I
thought they had
A A A all
A A A >A A A changed to
A A A >A A A >AA AA A laser guns.
A A A >A A A >AA AA A -----
A A A >A A A >AA AA A Here in CA, the CHP uses radar (Ka band)
and laser.
A A A >A A A >AA AA A As I understand it, laser must be from a
stationary
A A A >A A A position and
A A A >A A A >AA AA A very close to a
A A A >A A A >AA AA A A straight (not from an angle) shot at
the target.
A A A >
A A A >A A >AA AA A I've seen them hiding on highway overpasses
to get that
A A A >A A position.
A A A >A A >AA AA A Radar now all appears to be instant-on,
though some
A A A officers
A A A >A A drive
A A A >A A >AA AA A with it alway
A A A >A A >AA AA A s on.
A A A >A A >AA AA A Radar is not as picky about the aim of the
signal, and
A A A works
A A A >A A just
A A A >A A >AA AA A fine from a mo
A A A >A A >AA AA A ving vehicle.
A A A >A A >AA AA A With my Valentine, I find that as long as
there is an
A A A >A A >AA AA A ahead-of-me-rabbit to moti
A A A >A A >AA AA A vate a Chipie to hit his instant-on, the
scatter from
A A A that
A A A >A A radar
A A A >A A >AA AA A burst
A A A >A A >AA AA A will trip my detector up to over two miles
ahead.
A A A >A A >AA AA A Same benefit from a radar sitiuated behind
you, and
A A A with the
A A A >A A >AA AA A Valentine you'll kn
A A A >A A >AA AA A ow the direction to look.
A A A >A A >AA AA A Headed up the 101 years ago to a PCNC
meeting, moving
A A A at a
A A A >A A 'brisk'
A A A >A A >AA AA A rate, the rea
A A A >A A >AA AA A r arrows lit up with plenty of time
A A A >A A >AA AA A to slow down and thus frustrate the CHP
motorcycle
A A A officer who
A A A >A A paced
A A A >A A >AA AA A in my RH bl
A A A >A A >AA AA A ind spot for several miles until he finally
gave up
A A A >A A >AA AA A and moved ahead of me.
A A A >A A >AA AA A Cat and mouse at its finest. :-)
A A A >A A >AA AA A YMMV
A A A >A A >AA AA A Larry - "Why no, officer, I don't know why
you pulled
A A A me over,
A A A >A A >AA AA A Perhaps you thoug
A A A >A A >AA AA A ht I had some donuts?"
A A A >A A >AA AA A
_______________________________________________
A A A >A A >AA AA A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A A >A A >AA AA A DeTomaso mailing list
A A A >
A A A >A A A >AA AA A [2][4][12][13]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A >A A A >AA AA A
A A
A [3][5][13][14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A >A A A >
A A A >A A A > References
A A A >A A A >
A A A >A A A >AA A 1. [14]mailto:[6][15][15]detomaso at poca.com
A A A >A A A >AA A 2. [16]mailto:[7][17][16]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A >A A A >AA A 3.
A A
A [8][18][17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A >
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A A A >A A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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[10][20][19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A >
A A A >References
A A A >
A A A >A A 1. mailto:[21][20]MikeLDrew at aol.com
A A A >A A 2. mailto:[22][21]boyd411 at gmail.com
A A A >A A 3. mailto:[23][22]detomaso at poca.com
A A A >A A 4. mailto:[24][23]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A >A A 5.
[25][24]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A >A A 6. mailto:[26][25]detomaso at poca.com
A A A >A A 7. mailto:[27][26]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A >A A 8.
[28][27]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A >A A 9. mailto:[29][28]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A >A 10.
[30][29]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >_______________________________________________
A A >
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A A >DeTomaso mailing list
A A >[31][30]DeTomaso at poca.com
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References
A A 1. mailto:[32]boyd411 at gmail.com
A A 2. mailto:[33]will.kooiman at gmail.com
A A 3. mailto:[34]MikeLDrew at aol.com
A A 4. mailto:[35]detomaso at poca.com
A A 5. mailto:[36]detomaso at poca.com
A A 6. mailto:[37]fresnofinches at aol.com
A A 7. mailto:[38]will.kooiman at gmail.com
A A 8. mailto:[39]boyd411 at gmail.com
A A 9. mailto:[40]MikeLDrew at aol.com
A 10. mailto:[41]boyd411 at gmail.com
A 11. mailto:[42]detomaso at poca.com
A 12. mailto:[43]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 13. [44]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 14. mailto:[6]
A 15. mailto:[45]detomaso at poca.com
A 16. mailto:[7]
A 17. mailto:[46]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 18. [47]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 19. mailto:[48]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 20. [49]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 21. mailto:[50]MikeLDrew at aol.com
A 22. mailto:[51]boyd411 at gmail.com
A 23. mailto:[52]detomaso at poca.com
A 24. mailto:[53]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 25. [54]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 26. mailto:[55]detomaso at poca.com
A 27. mailto:[56]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 28. [57]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 29. mailto:[58]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 30. [59]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 31. mailto:[60]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 32. [61]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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References
1. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
2. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
3. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
7. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
8. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
9. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
10. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
11. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
12. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
13. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
15. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
16. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
20. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
21. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
22. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
25. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
26. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
27. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
28. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
29. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
30. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
31. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
32. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
33. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
34. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
35. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
36. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
37. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
38. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
39. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
40. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
41. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
42. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
43. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
44. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
45. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
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48. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
49. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
50. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
51. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
52. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
53. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
54. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
55. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
56. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
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58. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
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60. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
61. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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