[DeTomaso] Weber's or IR Stack EFI for high HP applications
Kirby Schrader
kirby.schrader at gmail.com
Sat Dec 13 17:57:31 EST 2014
Julian,
Yeah, I know… I should.
But with the holidays and time running short (CVAR race in mid February), that won’t happen.
Engine is still being machined and set up.
Tom and I’ll put the engine together in January and then into the car.
If I can keep up with Tom, then all will be fine.
:-)
Kirby
> On Dec 12, 2014, at 20:42, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Kirby,
>
> You really should dyno the car with the current setup and after Weber install to either corroborate or dispel the myths you are going to run out of air flow at something over ~500HP? You could be giving up an awful lot if true.
>
> Julian
>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Weber's or IR Stack EFI for high HP applications
> > From: kirby.schrader at gmail.com <mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
> > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 18:40:13 -0600
> > CC: julian_kift at hotmail.com <mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com>; detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
> > To: boyd411 at gmail.com <mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com>
> >
> > I find this thread very interesting…
> >
> > The EFI story is a no brainer. I use 55mm throttle bodies on both the Pantera and the GT40.
> >
> > But to be different, I shall be using a Jim Ingelese modified Weber 48IDA setup on the new race car engine.
> > Vintage legal and Tom Upton says the new engine will do more than 650HP with a 4 bbl.
> > Vintage legal all iron, exhaust port plates, etc.
> >
> > And the Webers are making everyone call me a ‘glutton for punishment’.
> >
> > Should be interesting.
> >
> > FWIW,
> > Kirby
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Dec 12, 2014, at 15:32, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com <mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Julian,
> > > I spoke to Jim Ingelese and he told be he builds Weber setups
> > > guaranteed to run well, he doesn't build them to meet HP goals.
> > > My A-3 heads have intake valves that are 2.19" and according to Dan
> > > JonesA there is no way to get the air flow from 48MM Weber's. He
> > > suggested Ipsco's 55mm throttle bodies. Kelly Coffield fabricates a
> > > complete system using Ipsco's throttle bodies which are set up to place
> > > injectors directly into the intake manifold. The whole set up is low
> > > profile and can be installed under the stock screen without cutting the
> > > rear deck lid.
> > > Boyd
> > >
> > > On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Julian Kift
> > > <[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I also always heard that Webers run out of flow at around 500HP; When I
> > > approached Jim Inglese about a set of Webers he was adamant that was
> > > complete BS, quoting numerous race cars running well north of 600HP
> > > using 48IDA Weber carbsA A with no issuesA e.g. Lola T70's. He will
> > > design a set specific to your engine whichA he guarantees will be
> > > virtually bolt on with minimal further tuning required.A
> > > Be aware that Jim is no longer associated with Inglese Induction
> > > Systems that Comp Cams now owns and has restarted his own business
> > > [2]http://www.jiminglese.com/
> > > I'd be interested to know what cam specs you have for use with the IR
> > > on that 408 stroker.
> > > Julian
> > > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 16:38:13 -0500
> > > From: [3]boyd411 at gmail.com
> > > To: [4]detomaso at poca.com
> > > Subject: [DeTomaso] Weber's or IR Stack EFI for high HP applications
> > > I was asking Dan Jones about running Weber's on the engine he and Dave
> > > McClain are putting together for me. Dave is building and Dan doing the
> > > simulation and design. It's a 408 stroker A-3heads fully ported (not back
> > > from the porter yet ) so they have not been bench flowed yet. I really like
> > > the looks and sound of a stack set up and since I am running 180 degree
> > > headers the sound with stacks the sound can't be beat. Since my engine is
> > > expected to be producing north of 635 HP at 6500 rpm Dan thought that
> > > Weber's wouldn't supply enough fuel to reach the maximum HP potential. Does
> > > anyone have experience or opinions on a set up that would allow for the
> > > optimum low , mid range and high end HP without losing any throttle
> > > response or HP at any of the key points.
> > >
> > > On another point who makes the best Chassis stabilization kit ( rigidity
> > > kit) for use on a 1971 L. I already have Billet rear risers , CV joints (
> > > porsche 930) poly bushings from Dennis Quella ( along with his Koni set up
> > > and coil overs, Sphere ball end sway bars Front a-arms modified by johnny
> > > woods modified for maximum adjustable castor, Brembo 4 piston calipers from
> > > a Porsche 911 turbo, Coleman custom made rotors with center directional
> > > vanes and gas vents and custom billet hats. Dual CNC master cylinders with
> > > a balance bar long throw clutch master with SS sleeve and Anodized Slave
> > > cylinder with SS sleeve. So I want to get the best possible Rigidity kit
> > > for the full chassis Front hood,rear engine compartment, under chassis.
> > > Also any other recommendation which could be made to help deal with the
> > > high horsepower and torque.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed
> > > by POCA DeTomaso mailing list [5]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > > [6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com <http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com>
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > 1. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> > > 2. http://www.jiminglese.com/
> > > 3. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
> > > 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> > > 5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> > > 6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > >
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
-------------- next part --------------
Julian,
Yeah, I know... I should.
But with the holidays and time running short (CVAR race in mid
February), that won't happen.
Engine is still being machined and set up.
Tom and I'll put the engine together in January and then into the car.
If I can keep up with Tom, then all will be fine.
:-)
Kirby
On Dec 12, 2014, at 20:42, Julian Kift <[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
wrote:
Kirby,
You really should dyno the car with the current setup and after Weber
install to either corroborate or dispel the myths you are going to run
out of air flow at something over ~500HP? You could be giving up an
awful lot if true.
Julian
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Weber's or IR Stack EFI for high HP
applications
> From: [2]kirby.schrader at gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 18:40:13 -0600
> CC: [3]julian_kift at hotmail.com; [4]detomaso at poca.com
> To: [5]boyd411 at gmail.com
>
> I find this thread very interesting...
>
> The EFI story is a no brainer. I use 55mm throttle bodies on both the
Pantera and the GT40.
>
> But to be different, I shall be using a Jim Ingelese modified Weber
48IDA setup on the new race car engine.
> Vintage legal and Tom Upton says the new engine will do more than
650HP with a 4 bbl.
> Vintage legal all iron, exhaust port plates, etc.
>
> And the Webers are making everyone call me a `glutton for
punishment'.
>
> Should be interesting.
>
> FWIW,
> Kirby
>
>
>
> > On Dec 12, 2014, at 15:32, Boyd Casey <[6]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Julian,
> > I spoke to Jim Ingelese and he told be he builds Weber setups
> > guaranteed to run well, he doesn't build them to meet HP goals.
> > My A-3 heads have intake valves that are 2.19" and according to Dan
> > JonesA there is no way to get the air flow from 48MM Weber's. He
> > suggested Ipsco's 55mm throttle bodies. Kelly Coffield fabricates a
> > complete system using Ipsco's throttle bodies which are set up to
place
> > injectors directly into the intake manifold. The whole set up is
low
> > profile and can be installed under the stock screen without cutting
the
> > rear deck lid.
> > Boyd
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Julian Kift
> > <[1][7]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I also always heard that Webers run out of flow at around 500HP;
When I
> > approached Jim Inglese about a set of Webers he was adamant that
was
> > complete BS, quoting numerous race cars running well north of 600HP
> > using 48IDA Weber carbsA A with no issuesA e.g. Lola T70's. He will
> > design a set specific to your engine whichA he guarantees will be
> > virtually bolt on with minimal further tuning required.A
> > Be aware that Jim is no longer associated with Inglese Induction
> > Systems that Comp Cams now owns and has restarted his own business
> > [2][8]http://www.jiminglese.com/
> > I'd be interested to know what cam specs you have for use with the
IR
> > on that 408 stroker.
> > Julian
> > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 16:38:13 -0500
> > From: [3][9]boyd411 at gmail.com
> > To: [4][10]detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Weber's or IR Stack EFI for high HP
applications
> > I was asking Dan Jones about running Weber's on the engine he and
Dave
> > McClain are putting together for me. Dave is building and Dan doing
the
> > simulation and design. It's a 408 stroker A-3heads fully ported
(not back
> > from the porter yet ) so they have not been bench flowed yet. I
really like
> > the looks and sound of a stack set up and since I am running 180
degree
> > headers the sound with stacks the sound can't be beat. Since my
engine is
> > expected to be producing north of 635 HP at 6500 rpm Dan thought
that
> > Weber's wouldn't supply enough fuel to reach the maximum HP
potential. Does
> > anyone have experience or opinions on a set up that would allow for
the
> > optimum low , mid range and high end HP without losing any throttle
> > response or HP at any of the key points.
> >
> > On another point who makes the best Chassis stabilization kit (
rigidity
> > kit) for use on a 1971 L. I already have Billet rear risers , CV
joints (
> > porsche 930) poly bushings from Dennis Quella ( along with his Koni
set up
> > and coil overs, Sphere ball end sway bars Front a-arms modified by
johnny
> > woods modified for maximum adjustable castor, Brembo 4 piston
calipers from
> > a Porsche 911 turbo, Coleman custom made rotors with center
directional
> > vanes and gas vents and custom billet hats. Dual CNC master
cylinders with
> > a balance bar long throw clutch master with SS sleeve and Anodized
Slave
> > cylinder with SS sleeve. So I want to get the best possible
Rigidity kit
> > for the full chassis Front hood,rear engine compartment, under
chassis.
> > Also any other recommendation which could be made to help deal with
the
> > high horsepower and torque.
> >
> > _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum
Managed
> > by POCA DeTomaso mailing list [5][11]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [6][12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. [13]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> > 2. [14]http://www.jiminglese.com/
> > 3. [15]mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
> > 4. [16]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> > 5. [17]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 6. [18]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [19]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [20]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
References
1. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
2. mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com
3. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
5. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
6. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
7. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
8. http://www.jiminglese.com/
9. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
13. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
14. http://www.jiminglese.com/
15. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
16. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
17. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
18. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
19. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
20. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
More information about the DeTomaso
mailing list