[DeTomaso] Weber's or IR Stack EFI for high HP applications
Boyd Casey
boyd411 at gmail.com
Sun Dec 7 20:17:55 EST 2014
Dan,
Sorry for misquoting you. It was not intentional. I misunderstood your
explanation. Is there an IR EFI setup that can provide the necessary
airflow for my engine to run without losing any of it's HP potential?
Hugh
On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 7:45 PM, Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> > Dan thought that Weber's wouldn't supply enough fuel to reach the
> maximum HP potential.
> That's not exactly what Dan said.A 48 mm diameter IDA Webers will
> supply the fuel, they will just become restrictive on air flow at
> greather than 500 HP.A 48 mm is approximately 1.89 inches.A Your A3
> cylinder heads have intake valves that are 2.19" in diameter.A Area
> goes up with the square of diameter so there is no way the carbs are
> going to flow as well as the cylinder head intake ports.A Shelby ran
> 48 mm IDA Webers on the 289 Cobras which used an intake valve
> approxiamtely the same size (1.875 inches in diameter) as the Webers.A
> For the 427 side oiler engines, Ford cast up a special run of 58 mm
> (2.28 inches) Webers.A Vizard's testing (on his 350 SBC pick up truck
> engine) indicated that a suitably sized single four barrel carb made
> better power above 480 to 500 HP than 48 mm IDA Webers.A He ran the
> Webers because they made better average power (better low and mid range
> power) and returned 18 MPG in the truck.
> > When I approached Jim Inglese about a set of Webers he was adamant
> that was complete BS, quoting numerous race cars running well north of
> 600HP using 48IDA Weber carbs with no issues
> And NASCAR uses 390 CFM Holley barrel carbs as restrictors in some of
> their classes (Truck and Southwest Tour).A With larger carbs, the
> engines would make a bunch more power and those 390 carbs are seriously
> re-worked.A My engine builder's carb guy gets around $5000 for a
> Holley "390" CFM race carb (which are legal to the specs but flow more
> like 600 CFM at 20.3 inches of water, the truck carbs have looser rules
> and flow more like 750 CFM).A
> The point is not will 48 mm IDA Webers support 600 HP, the point is how
> much power do they give up on a 600 HP engine?
> Dan Jones
>
> On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Boyd Casey <[1]boyd411 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> A A I was asking Dan Jones aboutAA running Weber's on the engine
> he and
> A A Dave McClain areA AA putting together for me. Dave is building
> and Dan
> A A doing the simulation and design.AA It's a 408 stroker A-3heads
> fully
> A A portedAA (not back from the porter yet ) so they have not been
> bench
> A A flowed yet. I really like the looks and sound of a stack set up
> and
> A A since I am running 180 degree headers the sound with stacks the
> sound
> A A can't be beat.AA Since my engine is expected to be producing
> north of
> A A 635 HP at 6500 rpm Dan thought that Weber's wouldn't supply
> enough fuel
> A A to reach the maximum HP potential. Does anyone have experience
> or
> A A opinions on a set up that wouldAA allow for the optimum low ,
> mid range
> A A and high endAA HPAA withoutAA losing any throttle response
> or HP at any
> A A of the key points.
> A A A On another point who makes the best Chassis stabilization kit
> (
> A A rigidity kit) for use on a 1971 L.AA I already have Billet
> rear risers
> A A , CV joints ( porsche 930) poly bushings from Dennis Quella (
> along
> A A with his Koni set up and coil overs, Sphere ball end sway bars
> Front
> A A a-arms modified by johnny woods modified for maximum adjustable
> castor,
> A A Brembo 4 piston calipers from a Porsche 911 turbo, Coleman
> custom made
> A A rotors with center directional vanes and gas vents and custom
> billet
> A A hats. Dual CNC master cylinders with a balance bar long throw
> clutch
> A A master with SS sleeve andAA Anodized Slave cylinder with SS
> sleeve. So
> A A I want to get the best possibleAA Rigidity kit for the full
> chassis
> A A Front hood,rear engine compartment, under chassis. Also any
> other
> A A recommendation which could be made to help deal with the high
> A A horsepower and torque.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
Dan,
Sorry for misquoting you. It was not intentional. I misunderstood your
explanation. Is there an IR EFI setup that can provide the necessary
airflowA for my engine to run without losing any of it's HP potential?
Hugh
On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 7:45 PM, Daniel C Jones
<[1]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com> wrote:
A A > Dan thought that Weber's wouldn't supply enough fuel to reach
the
A A maximum HP potential.
A A That's not exactly what Dan said.AA 48 mm diameter IDA Webers
will
A A supply the fuel, they will just become restrictive on air flow
at
A A greather than 500 HP.AA 48 mm is approximately 1.89 inches.AA
Your A3
A A cylinder heads have intake valves that are 2.19" in
diameter.AA Area
A A goes up with the square of diameter so there is no way the
carbs are
A A going to flow as well as the cylinder head intake ports.AA
Shelby ran
A A 48 mm IDA Webers on the 289 Cobras which used an intake valve
A A approxiamtely the same size (1.875 inches in diameter) as the
Webers.A
A A For the 427 side oiler engines, Ford cast up a special run of
58 mm
A A (2.28 inches) Webers.AA Vizard's testing (on his 350 SBC pick
up truck
A A engine) indicated that a suitably sized single four barrel carb
made
A A better power above 480 to 500 HP than 48 mm IDA Webers.AA He
ran the
A A Webers because they made better average power (better low and
mid range
A A power) and returned 18 MPG in the truck.
A A > When I approached Jim Inglese about a set of Webers he was
adamant
A A that was complete BS, quoting numerous race cars running well
north of
A A 600HP using 48IDA Weber carbs with no issues
A A And NASCAR uses 390 CFM Holley barrel carbs as restrictors in
some of
A A their classes (Truck and Southwest Tour).AA With larger carbs,
the
A A engines would make a bunch more power and those 390 carbs are
seriously
A A re-worked.AA My engine builder's carb guy gets around $5000
for a
A A Holley "390" CFM race carb (which are legal to the specs but
flow more
A A like 600 CFM at 20.3 inches of water, the truck carbs have
looser rules
A A and flow more like 750 CFM).A
A A The point is not will 48 mm IDA Webers support 600 HP, the
point is how
A A much power do they give up on a 600 HP engine?
A A Dan Jones
A A On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Boyd Casey
<[1][2]boyd411 at gmail.com>
A A wrote:
A A A AA A I was asking Dan Jones aboutAAA running Weber's on
the engine
A A A he and
A A A AA A Dave McClain areA AAA putting together for me. Dave
is building
A A A and Dan
A A A AA A doing the simulation and design.AAA It's a 408
stroker A-3heads
A A A fully
A A A AA A portedAAA (not back from the porter yet ) so they
have not been
A A A bench
A A A AA A flowed yet. I really like the looks and sound of a
stack set up
A A A and
A A A AA A since I am running 180 degree headers the sound with
stacks the
A A A sound
A A A AA A can't be beat.AAA Since my engine is expected to be
producing
A A A north of
A A A AA A 635 HP at 6500 rpm Dan thought that Weber's wouldn't
supply
A A A enough fuel
A A A AA A to reach the maximum HP potential. Does anyone have
experience
A A A or
A A A AA A opinions on a set up that wouldAAA allow for the
optimum low ,
A A A mid range
A A A AA A and high endAAA HPAAA withoutAAA losing any
throttle response
A A A or HP at any
A A A AA A of the key points.
A A A AA A A On another point who makes the best Chassis
stabilization kit
A A A (
A A A AA A rigidity kit) for use on a 1971 L.AAA I already have
Billet
A A A rear risers
A A A AA A , CV joints ( porsche 930) poly bushings from Dennis
Quella (
A A A along
A A A AA A with his Koni set up and coil overs, Sphere ball end
sway bars
A A A Front
A A A AA A a-arms modified by johnny woods modified for maximum
adjustable
A A A castor,
A A A AA A Brembo 4 piston calipers from a Porsche 911 turbo,
Coleman
A A A custom made
A A A AA A rotors with center directional vanes and gas vents and
custom
A A A billet
A A A AA A hats. Dual CNC master cylinders with a balance bar
long throw
A A A clutch
A A A AA A master with SS sleeve andAAA Anodized Slave cylinder
with SS
A A A sleeve. So
A A A AA A I want to get the best possibleAAA Rigidity kit for
the full
A A A chassis
A A A AA A Front hood,rear engine compartment, under chassis.
Also any
A A A other
A A A AA A recommendation which could be made to help deal with
the high
A A A AA A horsepower and torque.
A A A _______________________________________________
A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A A DeTomaso mailing list
A A A [2][3]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A [3][4]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
A A 1. mailto:[5]boyd411 at gmail.com
A A 2. mailto:[6]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A 3. [7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[8]DeTomaso at poca.com
[9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
2. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
3. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
4. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
5. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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